Thai Junta Call It Quits, Vows No More Coups

[logbags]

I forget the number but Thailand has a ridiculous amount of Generals and one wonders what they actually do as Thailand has never fought a war and has relatively peaceful borders these days. There is an old joke about Thailand being invaded whilst the Generals were out playing golf.

Many Thai politicions and in particular the Thai Rak Thai (PPP) are ethnic Chinese and are connected to either a banking empire or a corporation involved in large scale dealings that often involve the Government. Many simply have a family member enter politics just to protect the empires interests.

A friend of mine actually tried to join the Thai Rak Thai and run for a seat in Bangkok for the above reasons. Just to sign up he had pay something like 15 million baht and any position higher had a huge price like 150 million or more depending on the access to graft and kickbacks on offer. I never asked why but soon after working as an assistant to Thaksin he left in disgust and moved out of Bangkok to the country.

The Thai system works like this, you want a higher position you must pay your superiors to get it. A Policeman for example will be promoted according to what he can bring in graft and how much favour he curries with the brass who have the power to promote him. Once promoted he must then graft and scam at a higher level to first recoup his payment for the job and then save money to buy his next promotion.

This happens at every level in all services in Thailand and especially in the armed forces, police etc. Thaksin himself made his start in tandem with Pojamans father who was a General in the Police. Thaksin left the Police to go into telecomunications and his first big score involved selling computers to the Police at the usual highly ramped price. From there onwards he built his empire by paying for sweet heart deals for his mobile phone concessions etc.

By the time he entered politics he had a large empire up and running but he needed the protection politics provided so imbedded himself slowely and carefully into the system biding his time while he made connections and networked.

Meglomaniac is the perfect word for him as he was already very rich and could have done a lot for the country. He instead put his own selfish interests before that of the countries. The larger his wallet grew the larger his ego grew and he simply became a greedy despot who dismantled and corrupted virtually all checks and balances that were in place to oversee justice. (Not that they were ever that good to start with)

Now we have turned a full circle with Samak, Sanoh, Sanan, and Barharn back in power and the likes of Police Captain Chalerm Yubumrung to be appointed Interior minister. This alone is enough to send shivers up most peoples spines. In any other country most of these people would probably be either in jail serving long jail sentences or under investigation for corporate crimes, corruption etc.

The big joke to me is Samak has already been sentenced to 2 years jail for defaming somebody but he just laughs it all off as he knows he will never go to jail. The previous set of election officials were also jailed for 2 years but not one of them will go to jail either. In fact in the 24 years I have followed Thai politics I cannot remember one politicion being convicted of corruption or jailed except the Banker who got jailed after the crash of 97.

I guess he lost some important guys cash

[thefusilier]

I'm sure I will be in a minority on this....

I agree with you for the most part. The coup was the lesser of evils to me.

[AlexLah]

I guess they get what they deserve.

What a bunch of frikkin idiots here.

Up to them.

Mai pen rai , mai pen rai, mai pen rai.

Grrrrrrrrrr.......

[thaigene2]

The weekly meeting of the CNS on Tuesday was the final one, as the 2007 constitution stated that its role is over when a new government is formed.

Col Sansern said the CNS members discussed qualifications for a new defence minister and all agreed that the person should be a military figure and should not be a member of any political party.

--Bangkok Post 2008-02-22

Related news:

Thailand's Parliament convenes first session since 2006 coup

Read more:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=165226

Well, that ought to answer any questions of befuddlement..The elected politicians should not have a civilian Defence Minister...

Welcome to big hat democracy....(and anyone who attemps to scrutinize our defence purchases will be answering to the non-civilian defence minister, ya get it?

Now before the pro-junta types jumop in here - let's acknoweldge that they will claim it's the only way to prevent the ppp/trt types from trying to route them. True - but we know it's all bs anyway...EVERYONE of these connected people in this "game" right now are positioning their piggy little noses for the trough. Nobody's really really afraid of revenge - cause just like 'prison time' for hi-so's, revenge never happens in these circles..

Edited January 22, 2008 by thaigene2

[thaigene2]

I forget the number but Thailand has a ridiculous amount of Generals and one wonders what they actually do as Thailand has never fought a war and has relatively peaceful borders these days. There is an old joke about Thailand being invaded whilst the Generals were out playing golf.

Many Thai politicions and in particular the Thai Rak Thai (PPP) are ethnic Chinese and are connected to either a banking empire or a corporation involved in large scale dealings that often involve the Government. Many simply have a family member enter politics just to protect the empires interests.

A friend of mine actually tried to join the Thai Rak Thai and run for a seat in Bangkok for the above reasons. Just to sign up he had pay something like 15 million baht and any position higher had a huge price like 150 million or more depending on the access to graft and kickbacks on offer. I never asked why but soon after working as an assistant to Thaksin he left in disgust and moved out of Bangkok to the country.

The Thai system works like this, you want a higher position you must pay your superiors to get it. A Policeman for example will be promoted according to what he can bring in graft and how much favour he curries with the brass who have the power to promote him. Once promoted he must then graft and scam at a higher level to first recoup his payment for the job and then save money to buy his next promotion.

This happens at every level in all services in Thailand and especially in the armed forces, police etc. Thaksin himself made his start in tandem with Pojamans father who was a General in the Police. Thaksin left the Police to go into telecomunications and his first big score involved selling computers to the Police at the usual highly ramped price. From there onwards he built his empire by paying for sweet heart deals for his mobile phone concessions etc.

By the time he entered politics he had a large empire up and running but he needed the protection politics provided so imbedded himself slowely and carefully into the system biding his time while he made connections and networked.

Meglomaniac is the perfect word for him as he was already very rich and could have done a lot for the country. He instead put his own selfish interests before that of the countries. The larger his wallet grew the larger his ego grew and he simply became a greedy despot who dismantled and corrupted virtually all checks and balances that were in place to oversee justice. (Not that they were ever that good to start with)

Now we have turned a full circle with Samak, Sanoh, Sanan, and Barharn back in power and the likes of Police Captain Chalerm Yubumrung to be appointed Interior minister. This alone is enough to send shivers up most peoples spines. In any other country most of these people would probably be either in jail serving long jail sentences or under investigation for corporate crimes, corruption etc.

The big joke to me is Samak has already been sentenced to 2 years jail for defaming somebody but he just laughs it all off as he knows he will never go to jail. The previous set of election officials were also jailed for 2 years but not one of them will go to jail either. In fact in the 24 years I have followed Thai politics I cannot remember one politicion being convicted of corruption or jailed except the Banker who got jailed after the crash of 97.

I guess he lost some important guys cash

This would have been a near-perfect post (though a lot shold be credited to Pasuk and Baker as the writers). It would have been better if he'd added that ALL the parties are involved in this system of patrongae and payoffs and pay-ups. It's Thailand to the core. Anyway, had that been added (rather than the Thaksin-TRT bashing as though it was somehow a lone evil villain in Thai-style politics) it would be worthy of distinction (as an idea, why don't the Mods introduce "nominations for distinction" posts?)

[Johpa]

Anyone opening a betting book on the timing of the next coup?

Between two months and 6 months from the inevitable event that will forever change Thai society one way or another.

[thaigene2]

What does it mean, democracy?

Democracy is a political system which has many different meanings and can take different forms. It is often incorrectly used as a synonym for capitalism. Fundamentally, it means a government of, by and for the people.

Economic Democracy: An idea that people should have equal access to and say in the distribution of the wealth and resources of a country.

Electoral Democracy: The idea "that, to be legitimate, government authority must derive from periodic free, fair, broadly particpatory, and genuinely contested elections.

Participatory Democracy. A system by which people have direct say in policies that effect them without the mediating influence of elected or other governmental officials.

Representative Democracy: A system whereby people select others to represent their interests in government rather than having direct influence or say over such decisions.

The people now in charge need to get a good kick in the butt and told they have to do whatever it takes to help all people in Thailand, and to make Thailand the country it deserves to be.

Look at Sg, in 50 years they created a country that can compete with most Western countries..

Get rid of the Mai Pen Rai attitude and face thing and start working on education following Western standards.

It is not that difficult.

democracy: n. (State having) government by all the people, direct or representative; form of society ignoring hereditery class distinctions and tolerating minority views

Source: The Oxford Concise Dictionary of Current English - Seventh Edition

Emphasis added by me - how inconvenient for Thailand this idea that not only poo-yai can have a say..

Edited January 22, 2008 by thaigene2

[jbowman1993]

Anyone opening a betting book on the timing of the next coup?

Between two months and 6 months from the inevitable event that will forever change Thai society one way or another.

That's the most depressing comment I've read all day.

And it may be one of the truer predictions posted today as well.

I think you don't have anything to worry about Lil. Your hero Thaksin Shinwatra will be back soon, with 1 billion cows and a pocket full of love for everyone! All our problems will be solved when that day comes!

I'll hold on to my wallet...

[fsuthai]

As I recall, most falanges referred to Taksin and "Toxin"...

What do you mean, most! I indeed now some foreigners who don't like Thaksin, virtually all of them because an important faction in TRT attempted to control somewhat out of control vice and in the process made bars close early. Many who's world stretched from Beach Road to Third, or from Soi zero to Ekamai, I might add.

Yet I also associate with people who do business in Thailand, and there the view is a lot more balanced. Thaksin did a lot to support SME's, and generally handled the economy very well.

Just because you have civilians running things doesn't mean they run smoothly or democratically.

True. But at least there's accountability to the people who can vote you out of office.

Thanks to corporate control of practically everything in America now, including all of the mainstream media and both Houses of Congress, it is very close to being a completely Fascist state.

Ok I'm hesitant to comment on this as it will inevitably side-track the discussion, and some people may have seen in other sub forums that I have equally strong views on your current government, BUT, the bottom line is that elections are held and the public gets to have their say. You managed to go 200+ years without the need to tear up your constitution.

I just wish some of our more reasonable Generals (most of whom have been retired now) had ousted Dubya before he invaded Iraq and looted our Treasury...

The problem with that is that next time it may be a different group of generals with very different agendas. The issue is, it sets a precedent of 'interference by the gun', and the issue is that you don't get a say in who ousts elected government. For all you know they might oust the president for failing to invade a bunch more countries! Now, the reason you had this constitution for 200 years is to stop that from happening, and it WORKS, even though you occastionally have to put up with the occasional goofball. (Like Samak, indeed.)

I see your points, Lilawadee and don't wish to sidetrack the thread either. Besides, I don't think a coup in America would or could be bloodless; it's too big and nearly everyone has weapons. But, since 9/11 which I'm convinced was an 'inside job', the Bush Administration has either been shredding or ignoring many of the civil rights portions of that Constitution and refers to it as ..."just a piece of paper." The traditional freedoms enjoyed most of those 200+ years are dissapating rapidly. Unfortunately, the "people" can't just vote out a sitting President or VP; Congress can Impeach them out but, despite polls showing the majority are calling for this, our congressional leaders are controlled by their corporate backers and not responding to calls for Impeachment!

I'm glad to be living in Thailand, appreciate the hospitality shown to us foreigners, and wish them well for the rocky future that lies ahead.

[Plus]

people call the junta as inept will no doubt be eating their words after the PPP get back in.

If that's what it takes as a step to a more mature democracy then I for one am willing to go through that process. Thailand has done it since the last coup 15 years ago and struggled through government led by clowns/dinosaurs like Banharn and Chavalit.. It will just have to do it again, and I hope and pray it will lead to real democracy, not managed democracy, and that we won't see tanks in Bangkok ever again.

Real democracy? I wish I was as optimistic as you, but I just don't see any way Thailand would get anything resembling democracy with the likes of Samak being at the helm. In case you forgot, he was a cheerleader for two bloodiest coups in Thai history (and now his return is called "return of democracy" - how bizarre!).

I mean Thaksin openly tried to emulate Singapore, as managed democracy as you can possibly get.

Where does your optimism come from?

The bunch of clowns - the ones that bought you Suwannapoom - are back and wont be able to help themselves in getting their snouts in the trough.

As for Suvannaphum, I firmly believe Thaksin would not have allowed to have this turned in a saga-without-end, and now permanently be stuck with two airports. I think he would have prioritized the fixing of whatever was left to do to make it a world class airport. A lot I think is just the final dotting of i's and crossing of t's.

The junta had only ten days before the airport opening, do you think it's their fault? Would Thaksin have fixed it? He would sue anyone saying there ARE problems, that's for sure. Cracks? What cracks? 100 billion for libel.

[A_Traveller]

Yet I also associate with people who do business in Thailand, and there the view is a lot more balanced. Thaksin did a lot to support SME's, and generally handled the economy very well.

What a nonsensical point. Thaksin has the good fortune to be in power during a time when the world economy could provide a buffer for his government's grandiose schemes, almost all of which were designed to put money into key supporters and FoTs {Friends of Thaksin}. As for SME support, you have got to be kidding, in many cases 100% Thai SME enterprises succeed despite the government best endeavours, by and large not benefiting at all, whilst seeing funding being routed to the favoured few, all of which were, and are, major players, not a SME amongst them. Take a careful look at the OTOP fiasco, or the Design Centre or IT Centre at retail malls in Bangkok to assist in clarify your thinking.

And please don't then trot out the old, well the junta were worse, yes they were but for far more complex reasons than you seem to be eluding to.

Regards

[Crow Boy]

I have deleted three posts that indirectly reference The King - this is against Thai Visa rules. I haven't issued individual warnings but please keep within the rules or the thread will have to be closed.

Thanks to the person who reported to errant posts

CB

[ClaudeFeller]

Demo-crazy?

A democracy is possible in countries with less or more educated people. Two more MUSTS:

- A sharp separation between legislative, executive force and judicature.

- The army is under the governement not above.

Thailand?

Maybe 50 % of the population cannot count up to 10, maybe 90 % have no idea of "1 rai", 90 % dont listen when the King is speaking.

Let us wait 25 more years, maybe the next generation is better.

Now Thailand is a feudal system like most countries in the world.

[PadThaiGuy]

Thailand thrived while Thaksin was in office.

High stock market returns, low unemployment, paid off the IMF loan early...A large majority of Thais like him.

Glad he's back.

Let the good times roll.

I hope Thaksin settles the score and throws a bunch of Generals into the clink.

[VegasVic]

I'm sure I will be in a minority on this but I felt the military did something necessary for the good of the country and had no complaints about how they managed things once the remarkably smooth 'coup' was completed.

As I recall, most falanges referred to Taksin and "Toxin"...and he was well on his way to trying to achieve a dictatorship and probably drain the Thai Treasury, much like George Bush has done in mine! Just because you have civilians running things doesn't mean they run smoothly or democratically. Thanks to corporate control of practically everything in America now, including all of the mainstream media and both Houses of Congress, it is very close to being a completely Fascist state. I just wish some of our more reasonable Generals (most of whom have been retired now) had ousted Dubya before he invaded Iraq and looted our Treasury...and then borrowed billions more! What a disaster he and Chaney have been! Unfortunately, the already media-declared 'front runners' for the next presidential term have already sold out to the corporate powers also.

Thailand's solution to excessive greed & reckless political power was clean, quick, and effective. They got a lot of criticism but this country has not gone into the toilet like Amerika, nor start wars with other countries just to keep the voters confused and distracted.

I hope the new civilian government will work out but also hope the new Constitution will put a little more constraints on the powers of the P.M. over the will & benefit of this nation!

Chok dee, Thailand!!!

Oh no, another bitter American farang who can't afford to retire in the states so he runs away to Thailand to live on his social security income. What a shame you didn't have the fiscal dicipline to save and invest over the course of your life so you could enjoy a retirement in the states. So now you live your remaining years out overseas and bash your home country through the annonimity of a message board, what a sad existence my friend! I will try to contact our next president (Mike Huckabee) and see if he will pray for you, for it sounds like you are in need of some strong prayer. In the mean time when you wake up tomorrow try this, go to the mirror and say ten times "I will not be a bitter old man today, and I will compliment my Thai guests and try to engage in random acts of kindness" you will be amazed how much better you feel, and eventually you might even get that chip off your shoulder and stop hating your mother country Please let me know if this helps, it sounds like just the medicine you require!

[tropo]

"In a political transition into a full democracy, which is a sensitive period for all sides, the military should not be involved in politics and politicians should not interfere with the military," he said.

what a strange statement that is. The Government should be able to control the military. Well thats how it works in most other countries.

Yes, how ridiculous is that? They're asking that the new Government should stay out of military affairs. What is this going to be, a strange new type of government separate from and not in control of the military?

Until the elected government can get rid of the instigators of the coup, Thailand will never have a real government.

Thailand would be better off with no military at all than this ridiculous standoff.

[geriatrickid]

I find it rather odd that in the same sentence extolling the virtues of democracy, there are those that trash Mr. Thaksin. Maybe I missed something here, but Mr. Thaksin was duly elected with a large majority. It was up to the same people that elected him to throw him out if they saw fit. That is of course if one does believe in democracy.

Reading many of the posts, it's as if the voters that come from disadvantaged areas or have limited educations are somehow less worthy than the big city folk of BKK, that there votes mean less. Last time I looked, in a democractic based system with an emancipated public, everyone's vote is equal. Hardly a robust endorsement of democracy to say otherwise.

No doubt Mr. Thaksin had his faults. However, if he was an American, he'd be a CEO of a mega corporation and lauded in the business papers. If he was a European, he'd be the great EU leader looking after the poor and disenfranchised. If he was a Canadian, well, he certainly wouldn't be any worse than the 2 former prime ministers mired in patronage and bribery scandals, 1 with allegations of Airbus graft and the other accused of handing lucrative contracts to his cronies. Ahhh democracy, aint it fun.

The reality is that Mr. Thaksin tweaked some people's noses. He didn't disenfranchise voters as is common in the middle east, he didn't intentionally step on the poor as in the USA and he certainly didn't engage in genocide as Europeans have been prone to do, Certainly not the two headed fire breathing ogre he has been made out to be. Many of my friends voted for Thaksin leaning candidates and my friends are decent people. I have to respect their right to choose who will govern. So too should foreigners espousing reverence for democracy respect the wishes of the Thai people.

[DerringDo]

The Royal Thai Army are loyal to HM.

The government manage Thailand for HM.

The 2 are not necessarily on friendly terms or even pulling in the same direction.

That is Thai style democracy.

[Plus]

Maybe I missed something here, but Mr. Thaksin was duly elected with a large majority.

You missed the case of a massive electoral fraud, for example.

Things like breaking into Election Commission database and falsifying official records.

Thailand thrived while Thaksin was in office.

High stock market returns, low unemployment, paid off the IMF loan early...

It worked like this:

When he came to power about 25-30% of bank loans were non-performing. That was bad for the banks and kept interest rates high, it was bad for the companies themselves.

So our man of the people Thaksin gave 70bil to Village Fund to play with, and at the same time gave 700bil to pay for bankrtupt companies. Note the priorities.

Out of bankrupcy, relieved of loan burdens, companies posted immediate profits, got back on the exchange, or got listed. It was a one time massive surge in Thai stock market and it's over now, we are back to usual business. Some companies seek listings elsewere, some have delisted, euphoria of early years of Thaksin is not there anymore.

Obstacles to business growth that are present now are not as easy to remove as buying private debts with public money (tough political gamble but over all a fairly easy task). Try holding the baht at 35 level instead. Last time they tried they crashed the economy to the ground.

Banks, btw, were able to slash interests rates and there was a huge rise in consumer spending on big things like cars and houses but consumer confidence is very low now, and it's not going to improve unless there's a big turnaround in the economy, which is unlikely.

[LaoPo]

It worked like this:

When he came to power about 25-30% of bank loans were non-performing. That was bad for the banks and kept interest rates high, it was bad for the companies themselves.

So our man of the people Thaksin gave 70bil to Village Fund to play with, and at the same time gave 700bil to pay for bankrtupt companies. Note the priorities.

Out of bankrupcy, relieved of loan burdens, companies posted immediate profits, got back on the exchange, or got listed. It was a one time massive surge in Thai stock market and it's over now, we are back to usual business. Some companies seek listings elsewere, some have delisted, euphoria of early years of Thaksin is not there anymore.

Obstacles to business growth that are present now are not as easy to remove as buying private debts with public money (tough political gamble but over all a fairly easy task). Try holding the baht at 35 level instead. Last time they tried they crashed the economy to the ground.

Banks, btw, were able to slash interests rates and there was a huge rise in consumer spending on big things like cars and houses but consumer confidence is very low now, and it's not going to improve unless there's a big turnaround in the economy, which is unlikely.

Plus, what you describe is old fashioned economics.

Look what's happening now in the US.....same-same.

If Bernanke and the US government don't take the steps they're making now (trying to rescue shaky financials), the whole bluddy system will collapse and the US will enter into a deep recession sooner rather than later. And that's bad for the whole world. Recession will come anyway but they're postponing evil for the time being...

Thaksin did the same when he came to power and with the steps, mentioned by you, Thai economy recovered. Simple.

The rest is history and we live now....nervous times ahead.

LaoPo

[Plus]

Laopo,

I don't dispute that it worked. I'm saying that he won't be able to replicate that success because the conditions and the problems are vastly different now.

That success looked big because the affected companies hit the rock bottom a couple of years earlier. It wasn't a jump, they just levelled up to their normal state. That momentum is lost. In fact Thaksin has run out of ideas as early as in 2004.

He banked on infrastructure, as does pretty much everyone else, but it won't be a jumpstart, it takes time to get projects going and even more time to see effects on the whole economy. I don't think people are prepared to wait. They waited for over a year (2001 growth of only 1.8%) but I don't think they'll wait now.

[hammered]

What does it mean, democracy?

Democracy is a political system which has many different meanings and can take different forms. It is often incorrectly used as a synonym for capitalism. Fundamentally, it means a government of, by and for the people.

Economic Democracy: An idea that people should have equal access to and say in the distribution of the wealth and resources of a country.

Electoral Democracy: The idea "that, to be legitimate, government authority must derive from periodic free, fair, broadly particpatory, and genuinely contested elections.

Participatory Democracy. A system by which people have direct say in policies that effect them without the mediating influence of elected or other governmental officials.

Representative Democracy: A system whereby people select others to represent their interests in government rather than having direct influence or say over such decisions.

The people now in charge need to get a good kick in the butt and told they have to do whatever it takes to help all people in Thailand, and to make Thailand the country it deserves to be.

Look at Sg, in 50 years they created a country that can compete with most Western countries..

Get rid of the Mai Pen Rai attitude and face thing and start working on education following Western standards.

It is not that difficult.

And where they regualrly lock up opposition politicains and media people for expressing opinions. That might not be the kind of democracy people want for Thailand.

[Plus]

And where they regualrly lock up opposition politicains and media people for expressing opinions. That might not be the kind of democracy people want for Thailand.

Are you sure about that?

[hammered]

Maybe I missed something here, but Mr. Thaksin was duly elected with a large majority.

You missed the case of a massive electoral fraud, for example.

Things like breaking into Election Commission database and falsifying official records.

Thailand thrived while Thaksin was in office.

High stock market returns, low unemployment, paid off the IMF loan early...

It worked like this:

When he came to power about 25-30% of bank loans were non-performing. That was bad for the banks and kept interest rates high, it was bad for the companies themselves.

So our man of the people Thaksin gave 70bil to Village Fund to play with, and at the same time gave 700bil to pay for bankrtupt companies. Note the priorities.

Out of bankrupcy, relieved of loan burdens, companies posted immediate profits, got back on the exchange, or got listed. It was a one time massive surge in Thai stock market and it's over now, we are back to usual business. Some companies seek listings elsewere, some have delisted, euphoria of early years of Thaksin is not there anymore.

Obstacles to business growth that are present now are not as easy to remove as buying private debts with public money (tough political gamble but over all a fairly easy task). Try holding the baht at 35 level instead. Last time they tried they crashed the economy to the ground.

Banks, btw, were able to slash interests rates and there was a huge rise in consumer spending on big things like cars and houses but consumer confidence is very low now, and it's not going to improve unless there's a big turnaround in the economy, which is unlikely.

It was reproted yesterday that PPP are goign to try and get the baht back to 35 to the dollar and hold it there. Could be a rocky road. That will certainly influence who wants to be finance minister too!

[geriatrickid]

Maybe I missed something here, but Mr. Thaksin was duly elected with a large majority.

You missed the case of a massive electoral fraud, for example.

Things like breaking into Election Commission database and falsifying official records.

Aren't these unproven allegations? Doesn't he have to be convicted in a court of law?

Perhaps, there was electoral fraud, I'm not naive, but the size of his majority was such that he didn't need that cushion. It might remind some of the oldtimers of the Nixon era Watergate break in that wasn't necessary since Nixon was on his way to victory anyway.

I know Thaksin wasn't perfect and there were questionable election practices. But if it were perfect in the world, Mr. Bush probably would not have been President, elections in India, the world's biggest democracy, would fall apart, and a few European governments in the former east bloc would have to resign. The democratic process as flawed as it was and still is, seems to me a better option than the alternative of a military junta etc. When you toss aside a democratic process result you end up with a result like Pakistan.

[Plus]

Unproven allegations? Court of law?

Have you heard of Constitutional Tribunal dissolving TRT?

I understand you can say that you/Thaksin/PPP don't recognise that court, but the fact is they didn't dispute the court findings and the verdict, only jurisdiction.

They'd be declared guilty under any reasonable court.

It's not the question of popularity. Their offences are unacceptable.

[hammered]

And where they regualrly lock up opposition politicains and media people for expressing opinions. That might not be the kind of democracy people want for Thailand.

Are you sure about that?

A simple google search gives examples. They have actually had to lessen the practice since the advent of blogs as it was getting larger exposure outside of Sg itself. Opposition leader Chee Soon Juan is just one high profile example. In Sg peopel can be imprisned indefintley without charge or trial. Chia Thye Poh was imprisoned for 32 without either. Not exactly what we would call democratic.

The ruling family will also destroy people through huge money defamation suits and use the threat of these immediately anyone says anything even vaguely detrimental about them. It is an effective detternet.

[PhilHarries]

As for Suvannaphum, I firmly believe Thaksin would not have allowed to have this turned in a saga-without-end, and now permanently be stuck with two airports. I think he would have prioritized the fixing of whatever was left to do to make it a world class airport. A lot I think is just the final dotting of i's and crossing of t's.

As in dotting the "i's" in billions and crossing the "t's" in Baht.

[A_Traveller]

And where they regualrly lock up opposition politicains and media people for expressing opinions. That might not be the kind of democracy people want for Thailand.

Are you sure about that?

The 'constructive' use of defamation laws within the city state are legion. A key opposition figure has been bankrupted, only exiting from that state in 2007. Almost all Singapore's leading opposition figures have faced legal action at some time by PAP leaders, who claim the lawsuits are necessary to safeguard their reputations.

Regards

Link to a summary blog

Edited January 23, 2008 by A_Traveller

[hammered]

As for Suvannaphum, I firmly believe Thaksin would not have allowed to have this turned in a saga-without-end, and now permanently be stuck with two airports. I think he would have prioritized the fixing of whatever was left to do to make it a world class airport. A lot I think is just the final dotting of i's and crossing of t's.

As in dotting the "i's" in billions and crossing the "t's" in Baht.

The real Suvannaphum issue back then was turning the airport and surrounding areas into a new self governeing province under the PM's office not like any other province. Obviously the money that could be made by those controlling this would have been monumental. It is funny this is not talked about anymore. I wonder if PPP intend to resurrect this policy.