Thai Man Killed & English House Owner Injured Following House Robbery

[tattoodrob]

one down ,two to go

Well thats how i see it Rob, jeez !

sorry mike i didnt read all posts so i guess you already said same.....well done

just hope he aint gotta pay compensation on the death in which he should say was due to the thai guys riding and not him ...if compo is due to his family then lawyer should say to take it out of the 45k stolen as there his mates.and theres not much chance of getting it back is there?????

if john has a chance to read this at some point i would just like to say ......well done mate,maybe we can have a whip round or at least buy you a pint.maybe not in soi 15 walkin st.

[burman]

Simple - he killed a man - maybe unintentionally, but still the guy is dead.

Chasing burglars does not give you the right to kill them.

Is this honestly your first thought on this case? Three men break into a guys home and he returns to disturb them, so they attack him with an axe badly injuring him and all you can say is that 'he killed a man'. You almost sound like you are backing the attackers.

I give the guy 10 out of 10 for having the balls to chase them and unintentionally kill a man because they could have so easily unintentionally killed him. They had no right whatsoever to be on his property and hopefully this might just deter others from trying the same type of burgulary.

I would like to ask what you would have done in this situation given that you are so quick to criticise his actions.

Rick

They attacked him with an axe badly injuring him - on his own property -

They were in the process of taking away his possessions -

He was in a life threatening situation - three on one -

Thank God he had the courage to persue them -

He wasn't in a life threatening situation when he killed the guy, he was in a van chasing them.

how do u know so much mybe his friends will put a claim in as well . he didnt kill the guy . he killed one of the three that were trying to kill him at his home not thire homes get real mate mybe were put some money in a pot so he can repair his truck

I just pointed out he was not in a life threatening situation at the time. Pretty obvious to anybody who can read the report of the incident. Generally when you are chasing people, those people are not immediately threatening your life. That means the self defence card is out of the window if it comes to court.

[tattoodrob]

All over 45,000 baht; life is cheap to these farang...

life is so cheap to these thai you mug....they were willing to kill him with an axe and would of if he didnt get out ....all for takings of 45k.i bet the 2 are happy there mates dead as now they each have a bigger share

[bulmercke]

Simple - he killed a man - maybe unintentionally, but still the guy is dead.

Chasing burglars does not give you the right to kill them.

Is this honestly your first thought on this case? Three men break into a guys home and he returns to disturb them, so they attack him with an axe badly injuring him and all you can say is that 'he killed a man'. You almost sound like you are backing the attackers.

I give the guy 10 out of 10 for having the balls to chase them and unintentionally kill a man because they could have so easily unintentionally killed him. They had no right whatsoever to be on his property and hopefully this might just deter others from trying the same type of burgulary.

I would like to ask what you would have done in this situation given that you are so quick to criticise his actions.

Rick

They attacked him with an axe badly injuring him - on his own property -

They were in the process of taking away his possessions -

He was in a life threatening situation - three on one -

Thank God he had the courage to persue them -

He wasn't in a life threatening situation when he killed the guy, he was in a van chasing them.

how do u know so much mybe his friends will put a claim in as well . he didnt kill the guy . he killed one of the three that were trying to kill him at his home not thire homes get real mate mybe were put some money in a pot so he can repair his truck

So one minute you're in a life threatening situation and the next minute - you're not - and in a van involved with the same murderous individuals who a few moments before were endangering your life. What's the difference?

In the UK - if it could be proven that John Jones ran down one of the fleeing Thai buglars with an intent to kill or seriously maim - then he would almost certainly be looking at a custodial sentence.

This is an interesting case: two violent incidents involving the same individuals in two different locations. The modus operandi in the first case was aggravated burglary with violence - an extremely serious charge - the MO in the second case was possibly revenge - with the intent to endanger human life.

But if I had been John Jones in this situation then - sure - my adrenaline levels would have been running at an all-time high - who honestly knows how any TV member would have reacted under such circumstances.

What goes on - comes round!

Edited January 22, 2008 by bulmercke

[burman]

So one minute you're in a life threatening situation and the next minute - you're not - and in a van involved with the same murderous individuals who a few moments before were endangering your life. What's the difference?

At one point he was being attacked with an axe. After which he escaped the house (and the immediate danger) and waited for them to come out of the house. Then he chased them in a van and killed of them.

There is a large difference between chasing someone in a van and getting attacked by an axe. The latter is usually more life threatening.

If he had killed them in the house whilst he was getting attacked he has a great case of self defence. As it is, he has no argument for self defence. That matters a lot in a court of law.

In the UK - if it could be proven that John Jones ran down one of the fleeing Thai buglars with an intent to kill or seriously maim - then he would almost certainly be looking at a custodial sentence.

Yes that is correct and what I said quite a few posts earlier. Interested to see what the outcome is in Thailand with the same situation though.

[bulmercke]

So one minute you're in a life threatening situation and the next minute - you're not - and in a van involved with the same murderous individuals who a few moments before were endangering your life. What's the difference?

At one point he was being attacked with an axe. After which he escaped the house (and the immediate danger) and waited for them to come out of the house. Then he chased them in a van and killed of them.

There is a large difference between chasing someone in a van and getting attacked by an axe. The latter is usually more life threatening.

If he had killed them in the house whilst he was getting attacked he has a great case of self defence. As it is, he has no argument for self defence. That matters a lot in a court of law.

In the UK - if it could be proven that John Jones ran down one of the fleeing Thai buglars with an intent to kill or seriously maim - then he would almost certainly be looking at a custodial sentence.

Yes that is correct and what I said quite a few posts earlier. Interested to see what the outcome is in Thailand with the same situation though.

burman - Is it?

Let's not forget that at the time of the running down of the Thai - John Jones was almost certainly extremely traumatised - injured - and had a deep and personal sense that his personal privacy and property had been seriously violated.

IF JOHN JONES OR ANY OF HIS FRIENDS are reading this thread - please advise him to leave his residence NOW and lie low for a few days for his own personal security. Thais have a habit of taking matters into their own hands. (Ensuring his property is properly secured before doing so.)

Edited January 22, 2008 by bulmercke

[burman]

burman - Is it?

Well yes of course it is.

Let's not forget that at the time of the running down of the Thai - John Jones was almost certainly extremely traumatised - injured - and had a deep and personal sense that his personal privacy and property had been seriously violated.

Yes, shock/rage/trauma, all factors that have to be taken into account. But a good lawyer will argue that he had enough presence of mind to stay at the scene and wait for the burglars to come out, before he got into his van and chased them. Unfortunately I think there is no way this guy can use self defence as an argument.

[waza]

Hmmm I think he chased the guys and tried to stop them not for revenge but to get his possesions back

[tattoodrob]

Hmmm I think he chased the guys and tried to stop them not for revenge but to get his possesions back

i agree..if he didnt chase them then what chance had he of getting anything back at all.im sure he also didnt go with the intention of running them over to kill them but to stop them in there getaway till the police got there(about 2 weeks later ) but im sure it was more innocent than that and he accidently hit there bike....thats the story i would stick too.

i see the police in america do pit manouvers on criminals fleeing in cars and also nudge motorbikes to stop them.....im sure the police arent trying to kill them and if one actually died then would be classed as an accidental death as this should.i certainly wouldnt pay any compo to the family and would in an ideal thailand want an apology from the family rather than other way round...but that aint gonna happen.he will have to pay his way out as this is the real thailand

[allexx]

The scumbag is dead, good for Pattaya and its people, but I think Mr.John J. should live the country ASAP,if its possible.

[cali4995]

The only thing that's clear is Thailand seems unable to get it's house in order. This recent rash

of burglaries and assaults against seemingly decent law abiding visitors has occurred in every

corner of the kingdom. The LOS tag is becoming but a twisted joke. More like land of shame.

When these thugs run out of party money the very first thing they do is look for a foreigner to

rob. Some of these housing neighborhoods on the outskirts of the city seem to be under

incessant attempts at theft. The problem has already spun ridiculously far out of control.

[ArtfulD]

Dont do the crime if you cant do the time, be it in jail or 6 feet under....do me harm I will make sure to do all I can to cause you harm....don't care if you've stopped trying to do me harm and running away or not....you have to take a Machiavellian view on these things and crucify those who do you harm. They obviously thought 45 000 baht was worth attacking someone with an axe, so their life was obviously worth 45 000 baht too.

[vam-pire]

Spot on …………..

They attacked him with an axe badly injuring him - on his own property -

They were in the process of taking away his possessions -

He was in a life threatening situation - three on one -

Thank God he had the courage to persue them –

Good luck to the Guy well done , its about time Farangs stopped bowing and groveling to these scum bags. Stand up for once in you life .

VP

[philliphn]

I have mixed feelings about this whole matter.

The penalty for B&E and assault is not death. Having said that it is likely that his intentions were just to stop the assaultive burglars. I personally have all the sympathy for the home owner whoose home was violated. I would give him one year probation.

[Naam]

Simple - he killed a man - maybe unintentionally, but still the guy is dead.

Chasing burglars does not give you the right to kill them.

burglars who attack and wound with an axe deserve to be killed!

[Bluelotus]

If we do not fight for ourselves who will fight for us ?

[ronz28]

Shame on him for killing someone if it was just over some household junk and a cut from an axe. I hope he didn't mean to kill him. However, I would still be hunting the other two for some payback.

Edited January 23, 2008 by ronz28

[johnh101]

HE SHOULD HAVE GOT ALL 3 OF THEM.

I agree with this 100% and I think you will find that the judge does too, if it goes that far. Death by misadventure and custodial sentences for the other two muppets.

Mr Jones should be free (but should probably watch his back, or think about a long vacation)

[adjan jb]

this is somewhat like what the french call " a crime of passion " done while the balance of the mind was disturbed, .

Absolutely not. In a so called "crime of passion", the victim has to be the lover/wife/husband. Not a burglar.

[Naam]

Shame on him for killing someone if it was just over some household junk and a cut from an axe. I hope he didn't mean to kill him. However, I would still be hunting the other two for some payback.

i wonder whether you hold up that opinion if a burglar cuts the throat of your wife or your child.

[mouse]

I am not an attorney, but, would surely think that Mr. Jones was chasing the perpetrators after their housebreaking/theft and intent to kill him, in order to identify and detain them for authorities. The fact that an accident took place between two vehicles and that one motorcycle rider was killed, can likely be atributed to him not wearing a helmet and the fact that the three perpretrators were utilizing a single motorcycle. Vehiclular mishap as far as I can see and the reamining culprits should be cited for not wearing a helmet, riding three on one motorcycle and then be incarcerated until their trial for Housebreaking, Attempted Murder and casuing a death as a result of the crime. In America the two remaining perpretrators would be held accontable for the death of their comrade due to the death being the result of their cirme even if he had experinced a heart attack.

[mikethevigoman]

Hmmm I think he chased the guys and tried to stop them not for revenge but to get his possesions back

yes, and a nasty accident occured, he was just trying to follow them to make a citizens arrest

[ronz28]

i wonder whether you hold up that opinion if a burglar cuts the throat of your wife or your child.

No way....he's probably a dead man then.... but I didn't think that was the case.

[gharknes]

Wonder where everybody stands on this, doesn't seem to be many responses to this thread.

Should the guy walk free or should he be up on a murder/manslaughter charge?

Well, lets say he put up a real fight ,chances are at least one of them ( the thais ) would be up on a murder charge, then how would we react, strange isnt it, its almost as if you have double standards,.i see this as a normal reaction, if some b@stards were in my house and had a go at me id have done exactly the same, i say good on him, this will be an interesting outcome for sure,

double standards........... the fact is that these thai guys where on this mans property commitiing a crime, they then attacked him, how the F..k is that double standards, I wish people would think before posting on here, as for the death, unfortunate regretable - but the guy was trying to take back what was stolen from him, good on him he had the balls to take them on, an award would be in order,

Imagine you are on a motorbike and your wife has her bag snatched or you have a Gold neckless ripped from your kneck and you give chase to the snatcher who you force off the road and he hits an electric poll and dies, is that any different, I think not.

[gharknes]

Simple - he killed a man - maybe unintentionally, but still the guy is dead.

Chasing burglars does not give you the right to kill them.

Is this honestly your first thought on this case? Three men break into a guys home and he returns to disturb them, so they attack him with an axe badly injuring him and all you can say is that 'he killed a man'. You almost sound like you are backing the attackers.

I give the guy 10 out of 10 for having the balls to chase them and unintentionally kill a man because they could have so easily unintentionally killed him. They had no right whatsoever to be on his property and hopefully this might just deter others from trying the same type of burgulary.

I would like to ask what you would have done in this situation given that you are so quick to criticise his actions.

Rick

They attacked him with an axe badly injuring him - on his own property -

They were in the process of taking away his possessions -

He was in a life threatening situation - three on one -

Thank God he had the courage to persue them -

He wasn't in a life threatening situation when he killed the guy, he was in a van chasing them.

how do u know so much mybe his friends will put a claim in as well . he didnt kill the guy . he killed one of the three that were trying to kill him at his home not thire homes get real mate mybe were put some money in a pot so he can repair his truck

So one minute you're in a life threatening situation and the next minute - you're not - and in a van involved with the same murderous individuals who a few moments before were endangering your life. What's the difference?

In the UK - if it could be proven that John Jones ran down one of the fleeing Thai buglars with an intent to kill or seriously maim - then he would almost certainly be looking at a custodial sentence.

This is an interesting case: two violent incidents involving the same individuals in two different locations. The modus operandi in the first case was aggravated burglary with violence - an extremely serious charge - the MO in the second case was possibly revenge - with the intent to endanger human life.

But if I had been John Jones in this situation then - sure - my adrenaline levels would have been running at an all-time high - who honestly knows how any TV member would have reacted under such circumstances.

What goes on - comes round!

He may simply have been trying to rightfully recover his property, good on him

Oh and one observation on this thread where somone has lost a life.......................not one RIP from anyone, I think that tells it all

[adjan jb]

Oh and one observation on this thread where somone has lost a life.......................not one RIP from anyone, I think that tells it all

Not one RIP because it's irrelevant. Bouddhists don't rest in peace, they reincarnate into another human.

[Scott]

I think in this case, the victim won't even come back as a person. Maybe a cockroach.

It's sad when these things happen and I hope we are informed as to how the police and courts handle the situation. As a general rule the police tend to be rather inept and there is little detective work and this puts the ball in the victims court if they want something done.

[luumak]

Welcome to Pattaya!

At least he is not in the morgue like the Estonian killed on walking street

irony is sweet - police have totally lost control of this city and he will have to pay off the cops to stay out of jail.

pattaya is finished!

adjan: you have made a presumption that thais are buddhist?! not any ive seen/met as of late. certainly not in practice and the actions by these thugs are wholly un-buddhist to say the least.

Edited January 23, 2008 by luumak

[luumak]

gharnes: you have learned nothing living here. you are alone and your ass is in the wind. you can have a knife sticking in you put there by some ignorant thug - in front of a cop...no one will call the medics and the cops will do nothing at the time or thereafter. pattaya is a very, very dangerous place.

the only solution is to move out. its all fun until it happens to you. just lik ethis guty, just like the estonian.

pattaya has a higher murder rate per capita than anywhere in the usa. i just saw this on the internet and checked it out. th ecalcualtions are true.

between the mafia, thugs and police - you dont stand a chance.

[Humphrey Bear]

I stand by the post I made at the start of this thread.

Normal Thai practice would be to exonerate a man defending his family within the personal areas, such as a house, normally occupied by that family.

But in this case the burglary incident was over, done, finished. A dead parrot.

Instead of sorting it out there, he ran away (which could have saved his life, admittedly) and later got in his truck, chased the guys and 'ran into them at high speed'. So the report says.

Don't care what country you're in, that is possibly / probably murder. Not an accident, probably not manslaughter. The guy is in deep caggy, from the law as well as any friends or relatives the victim (Thai man) may have.

Two wrongs do not make a right - especially where someone winds up dead.