My Low Tolerance For Drunks

[greenwood]

I am a reformed drunk and understand why you would find the behavior so appaling.

I also suspect that your low tolerance for the behavior is likely more to do with fear than anything else.

Fear is I am sure one of the reasons why I and many others do not like being around drunks, but I think it is more than just fear.

Alcohol acts to remove inhibitions people do not become violent because they are drunk, the are by nature violent and the alcohol removes the self control that prevents them being violent under normal non-drunk circumstances.

But violence is not the only problem, the un-predictable behavior behavior of drunks is discomforting and perhaps frightening added to which drunks very often transgress the social rules and 'personal space' - This may be physical, or verbal or simply behavior that goes beyond what is acceptable.

Now while I agree that it is perhaps a good idea for someone working (caring for) people suffering with alcoholism to learn more about addiction, and I'm sure it would be of help to anyone in a committed relationship with an alcoholic to likewise get themselves educated on their partner's problem. I think its absolutely wrong to expect the rest of us to fit around an alcoholic's problems.

My point is that as drunking behavior bothers the OP so much, and he the fact that he seems to be around them a lot, that he either learn more about the condition or avoid them. I'm not expecting the 'rest of us' to fit around the problem. In the same way as I would recommend that someone who was spending time around people with any other health-related problem learn about it. This prevents misunderstanding and ignorance and may reduce the fear that people like the OP feel.

So while it may be 'absolutely wrong' for 'the rest of us' to fit around people with problems. A little compassion and understanding can be of great help for those who have close contact with people who are unwell.

[Who, me ?]

My sympathies.

Look on the bright side: 1) she drank at home, 2) she went straight to bed afterward

Quite true ! Some other guys are not that lucky !

[Jandajoy]

No excuse for manhandling a woman, though, unless she is attacking you physically.

Hear Hear

[huggybear]

Living in LOS, one has a lot of contact with alcoholics, both Thai and falang. It's deeply ingrained in the Thai culture and it seems that most of the falangs I know drink too much for my liking [mostly out of boredom, lack of confidence or to drown their sorrows??] I do drink my self....a little wine with and after diner and pride myself for my self control and I totally disrespect lack of control in others when they drink too much.

Hi jaideeguy,

I see from your picture you might be an deadhead? An ex-deadhead? As an ex-travelling show follower I am really surprised by this post. maybe you just liked the picture and don't know what I am talking about, or you do know and you learned nothing from Jerry?

Jerry was a beautiful human being who showed us all that we have our demons. His demons helped to finally take him from us, a truly sad August day. Tolerating imperfection.......................that should be your goal, not getting cranked up over someone's faults. I'm sure if we talked to the missus, you surely are not perfect.

Point 2-the type of alcohol. Yes, hard booze is dangerous. As you state, you enjoy wine, see if you can't convince the missus to enjoy that with you and her friends.

Edited January 28, 2008 by huggybear

[GuestHouse]

The paritial Quote

So while it may be 'absolutely wrong' for 'the rest of us' to fit around people with problems. A little compassion and understanding can be of great help for those who have close contact with people who are unwell.

And the Actual Paragraph

Now while I agree that it is perhaps a good idea for someone working (caring for) people suffering with alcoholism to learn more about addiction, and I'm sure it would be of help to anyone in a committed relationship with an alcoholic to likewise get themselves educated on their partner's problem. I think its absolutely wrong to expect the rest of us to fit around an alcoholic's problems.

A little less selective Quoting might help in understanding other people's arguments.

----

But let's be right here. The post is not about the problems of alcoholics, but the impact of alcoholics on those around them.

Compassion is a fine thing, and I'm all for it, but I think there is a sound argument that setting reasonable and firm limits on behaviour is supportive to discouraging such behaviour.

Alcoholics are ill, yes agreed, but they didn't suddenly become alcoholics. Acceptance of drunkedness as normal behaviour is part of the path towards alcholism.

As witnessed by the turn-around in attitudes towards alcohol in the industry I work in. 20 years ago lunch time sessions and fuzzy afternoons where standard industry practice - Our office, as with many of our competitors had a bar, many managers had bottles of whyskey in their office.

All that has changed - We now have very firm drink and drug policies and alcohol/drug testing of staff is routine.

The result, alcoholism among staff has dropped dramatically.

OK maybe the old alcholics have moved on - but new staff and young people in the organization are being brought up through their careers (and lives since we move staff to 'company life on assignments' in a culture of a low tolerence to alcohol and drug abuse).

Sympathy/Compassion is not necessarily acceptance - and failing to accept is not necessarily unkind.

An ounce of prevention seems right to me.

[koto]

Living in LOS, one has a lot of contact with alcoholics, both Thai and falang. It's deeply ingrained in the Thai culture and it seems that most of the falangs I know drink too much for my liking [mostly out of boredom, lack of confidence or to drown their sorrows??] I do drink my self....a little wine with and after diner and pride myself for my self control and I totally disrespect lack of control in others when they drink too much.

It seems to me that a lot of people I see drink to loose control and I do my best to avoid those situations and those kind of people and have drifted away from a few friends because of my intolerance of drunks.

My wife occasionally displays the Thai lack of control in her drinking habits as well. Last night, she invited a few [heavy drinking] friends over and they were drinking beer in the usual Thai fashion of on ice and always topping off the glass even after one swallow…..a Thai custom that I really don't like, as I like to 'control' my own rate of consumption. I had my usual couple of glasses of wine and socialized with them until I became bored with the increasing slurring of speech, loudness, repetition, stupidity etc and I politely excused myself early.

The party went on til I was ready to sleep and my wife came in slightly inebriated and I was intolerant and started to verbally express my disapproval and maybe got a little loud and insulted her [saying that she was setting a bad example for our kids] and our guests who were within hearing range, which promptly broke up the party and I feel like an ass for my outburst and spoiling the sanook. In my rage, I did get a little physical by restraining her, but never hit her as she was begging me to do.

It is now, the morning after and I had a terrible night's sleep with my guilt keeping me awake and feeling like I lost face as well as making my wife loose face.

Is it MY problem that I am intolerant of such behavior?? And do I have a problem with 'control'??

It is obivous that you have no control, have a few rules, party over, 10PM,

or you quit drinking and have a no drinking pad, take control of your life, If she loves you, she will also not drink at home, quit being a girle-boy and step up to the plate, Whos your Daddy? and whos raising the kids, who is setting examples, Have a great Now, quit smoking, quit drinking, start exercising, eat right, live long, and smile

[GuestHouse]

And to remember the post is about being comfortable with drunks, not necessarily alcoholics.

[garro]

Dear GH, perhaps you should take your own advice and read posts before replying to them.

My original reply was to the the OP who posted that the drinking of some around him was causing him concern.

I suggested that he could either learn more about the condition, or perhaps avoid those people, if he wished to not be troubled by it. It sounded like good advice to me.

Of course he can feel free to remain ignorant as to why people might indulge in this behavior.

That is his right. I am not quite sure why it should bother you so much though.

But advice was asked for and I gave it.

My advice was not directed to the population at large, just at somebody who was seeking a solution to a problem.

Your assumption that I am suggesting that the rest of the population fit themselves around the drunk was not my intention.

Edited January 28, 2008 by garro

[fletchsmile]

I sort of like the quote: "Everything in moderation. Including moderation".

No harm in getting drunk now and again. It's when your life revolves around it, that it may be a problem. Also it depends on your nature. Alcohol simply relieves inhibitions. It's what you're like without inhibitions that could be the problem (or not).

Sometimes if you can't beat them join them. If you can't join them, then walk away. Sometimes it's not much fun being the only sober person in the room, and not getting the jokes. Perhaps OP's feelings are partly due to a feeling of exclusion. It's easy to feel that sometimes in Thailand, sober or not. When other people (Thais) are doing something you're not that's likely to accentuate the feeling of exclusion.

Problems are often only problems if you choose them to be. So full marks to OP for questioning himself on it, but as he hints, it may be a case of needing to show a little more wisdom and compassion towards his wife. As well as understand more why she does it. I think it's also down to frequency.

As for other people drinking or not: again I think it's down to personal choice and what you choose to be a problem or not. I would be less tolerant in front of children, or other impressionable people who are unable to put it in perspective. In a partner that's one thing you should be assessing before marriage.

There are also a few positives in occasionally overstepping boundaries. You learn exactly where they are . Additionally some of the most famous artists/writers etc in history, have been known to experiment a little.

Edited January 28, 2008 by fletchsmile

[meom]

In my rage, I did get a little physical by restraining her, but never hit her as she was begging me to do.

She was begging for you to hit her? <deleted> is all this about?

Maybe I misunderstand but somehow I feel very sad for your wife.

[GuestHouse]

Forgive me Garo, my post was not an 'attack' on you or your point of view, in many respects I agree with much of what you say, I perhaps take different view on personal and society's responsibility.

I am certainly saying that I am right there with the OP in my views tolerance to drunks, and again not just alcoholics, much of the worst drunken behavior from people who are not clinically alcoholic.

I do however strongly feel that 'tolerance' of unacceptable behavior and 'tolerance' of excessive drinking in individuals and in society as a whole is a contributing factor to many people developing drink problems.

Topically the British Government is doing a U-Turn (in all but name) on its relaxing (and promotion) of the drink industry in the UK - A deregulation that was bitterly fought by charities working with people suffering from alcohol problems (be that the drinkers or their families).

Well sense is returning and I for one am delighted to hear so.

I'm genuinely pleased too to hear that you yourself have managed to defeat your own drink problems, or indeed that anyone else overcomes the illness of alcoholism that ruins so many lives.

But I feel very strongly that as a society we fail people, especially the young, by promoting alcohol consumption and then turning a blind eye when people are clearly not managing their alcohol use.

The OP is not alone in his intolerance of drunks, thankfully the UK government is taking note of the problems and that many many people have had enough of other people having too much.

[Jandajoy]

Living in LOS, one has a lot of contact with alcoholics, both Thai and falang. It's deeply ingrained in the Thai culture and it seems that most of the falangs I know drink too much for my liking [mostly out of boredom, lack of confidence or to drown their sorrows??] I do drink my self....a little wine with and after diner and pride myself for my self control and I totally disrespect lack of control in others when they drink too much.

It seems to me that a lot of people I see drink to loose control and I do my best to avoid those situations and those kind of people and have drifted away from a few friends because of my intolerance of drunks.

My wife occasionally displays the Thai lack of control in her drinking habits as well. Last night, she invited a few [heavy drinking] friends over and they were drinking beer in the usual Thai fashion of on ice and always topping off the glass even after one swallow…..a Thai custom that I really don't like, as I like to 'control' my own rate of consumption. I had my usual couple of glasses of wine and socialized with them until I became bored with the increasing slurring of speech, loudness, repetition, stupidity etc and I politely excused myself early.

The party went on til I was ready to sleep and my wife came in slightly inebriated and I was intolerant and started to verbally express my disapproval and maybe got a little loud and insulted her [saying that she was setting a bad example for our kids] and our guests who were within hearing range, which promptly broke up the party and I feel like an ass for my outburst and spoiling the sanook. In my rage, I did get a little physical by restraining her, but never hit her as she was begging me to do.

It is now, the morning after and I had a terrible night's sleep with my guilt keeping me awake and feeling like I lost face as well as making my wife loose face.

Is it MY problem that I am intolerant of such behavior?? And do I have a problem with 'control'??

She was "begging you to hit her"??????

[Sheryl]

My wife occasionally displays the Thai lack of control in her drinking habits as well. ...

my wife came in slightly inebriated and I was intolerant and started to verbally express my disapproval and maybe got a little loud and insulted her [saying that she was setting a bad example for our kids] and our guests who were within hearing range, which promptly broke up the party and I feel like an ass for my outburst and spoiling the sanook. In my rage, I did get a little physical by restraining her, but never hit her as she was begging me to do.

It is now, the morning after and I had a terrible night’s sleep with my guilt keeping me awake and feeling like I lost face as well as making my wife loose face.

Is it MY problem that I am intolerant of such behavior?? And do I have a problem with ‘control’??

Your wife has a problem with alcohol and, from the sounds of it, some other underlying problems as well (which probably account for the alcohol use...which is NOT customary for "nice" Thai women. -- the high social tolerance for drinking in LOS has a marked double standard )

You sound like you have the following problems: (1) residual/unresolved anger towards people in your past who drank; and (2) being currently married to someone with a drinking problem --a very bad mix! You may or may not have a problem with control issues, but it is not uncommon for the family members/partners of people with a drinking problem to fall into that trap

Of course, arguing with drunks is never a good idea.

Your wife needs help with her drinking and the underlying issues that fuel it. whether or not she wants such help is another matter. If she is open to it, refer her to AA which has Thai-language meetings in many locations of Thailand. (Google Alcoholics Anonymous Thailand).

You need help dealing with your drinking wife, in the course of getting that other underlying issues will automatically come out. Contact Al-Anon in Thailand. You will gain not only better in sight in how to deal with the family alcohol problem but much more besides.

Good luck to both of you.

[gjones]

Forgive me Garo, my post was not an 'attack' on you or your point of view, in many respects I agree with much of what you say, I perhaps take different view on personal and society's responsibility.

I am certainly saying that I am right there with the OP in my views tolerance to drunks, and again not just alcoholics, much of the worst drunken behavior from people who are not clinically alcoholic.

I do however strongly feel that 'tolerance' of unacceptable behavior and 'tolerance' of excessive drinking in individuals and in society as a whole is a contributing factor to many people developing drink problems.

Topically the British Government is doing a U-Turn (in all but name) on its relaxing (and promotion) of the drink industry in the UK - A deregulation that was bitterly fought by charities working with people suffering from alcohol problems (be that the drinkers or their families).

Well sense is returning and I for one am delighted to hear so.

I'm genuinely pleased too to hear that you yourself have managed to defeat your own drink problems, or indeed that anyone else overcomes the illness of alcoholism that ruins so many lives.

But I feel very strongly that as a society we fail people, especially the young, by promoting alcohol consumption and then turning a blind eye when people are clearly not managing their alcohol use.

The OP is not alone in his intolerance of drunks, thankfully the UK government is taking note of the problems and that many many people have had enough of other people having too much.:

You seriously think that the British Government care about the health of people. The tax levy on alcohol is already high; this is just another ploy to raise the tax again.

These are career politicians they don’t care if the people live or die, if they did care, then drinks like Two Dogs, Smirnoff ice and Bacardi breezes should have never have been allowed. These drinks purely target the young.

However, the OP in this thread seems to have a serious problem, and the fact he thought violence was a solution is a sobering thought. I would hate meet this guy after he has three of four glasses of wine.

And take note, don’t ever try and hit someone with glasses, use a bottle!

Edited January 29, 2008 by gjones

[mikethevigoman]

My wife occasionally displays the Thai lack of control in her drinking habits as well. ...

my wife came in slightly inebriated and I was intolerant and started to verbally express my disapproval and maybe got a little loud and insulted her [saying that she was setting a bad example for our kids] and our guests who were within hearing range, which promptly broke up the party and I feel like an ass for my outburst and spoiling the sanook. In my rage, I did get a little physical by restraining her, but never hit her as she was begging me to do.

It is now, the morning after and I had a terrible night's sleep with my guilt keeping me awake and feeling like I lost face as well as making my wife loose face.

Is it MY problem that I am intolerant of such behavior?? And do I have a problem with 'control'??

Your wife has a problem with alcohol and, from the sounds of it, some other underlying problems as well (which probably account for the alcohol use...which is NOT customary for "nice" Thai women. -- the high social tolerance for drinking in LOS has a marked double standard )

You sound like you have the following problems: (1) residual/unresolved anger towards people in your past who drank; and (2) being currently married to someone with a drinking problem --a very bad mix! You may or may not have a problem with control issues, but it is not uncommon for the family members/partners of people with a drinking problem to fall into that trap

Of course, arguing with drunks is never a good idea.

Your wife needs help with her drinking and the underlying issues that fuel it. whether or not she wants such help is another matter. If she is open to it, refer her to AA which has Thai-language meetings in many locations of Thailand. (Google Alcoholics Anonymous Thailand).

You need help dealing with your drinking wife, in the course of getting that other underlying issues will automatically come out. Contact Al-Anon in Thailand. You will gain not only better in sight in how to deal with the family alcohol problem but much more besides.

Good luck to both of you.

Sheryl you are right about "normal thai women " and drink, my wife dosent touch it as do her family, i grew up with a father that was always drunk and it wasnt pleasant at all, now i have a choice i wont have it around me,i have no problem with social drinking if done in moderation and the drinker knows their limits,....... certainly as you say there wil be some reason for her drinking and i for one would not tolerate it at all, i am NOT saying this lady is,however this is quite normal for an ex bar girl to behave like this,along with this imaginary jealousy that will also quicky wreck a marriage/relationship, . not an easy call for someone in one of these relationships but i wouls be calling it a day unless it stopped real quick,

[esprit]

Living in LOS, one has a lot of contact with alcoholics, both Thai and falang. It's deeply ingrained in the Thai culture and it seems that most of the falangs I know drink too much for my liking [mostly out of boredom, lack of confidence or to drown their sorrows??] I do drink my self....a little wine with and after diner and pride myself for my self control and I totally disrespect lack of control in others when they drink too much.

It seems to me that a lot of people I see drink to loose control and I do my best to avoid those situations and those kind of people and have drifted away from a few friends because of my intolerance of drunks.

My wife occasionally displays the Thai lack of control in her drinking habits as well. Last night, she invited a few [heavy drinking] friends over and they were drinking beer in the usual Thai fashion of on ice and always topping off the glass even after one swallow…..a Thai custom that I really don’t like, as I like to ‘control’ my own rate of consumption. I had my usual couple of glasses of wine and socialized with them until I became bored with the increasing slurring of speech, loudness, repetition, stupidity etc and I politely excused myself early.

The party went on til I was ready to sleep and my wife came in slightly inebriated and I was intolerant and started to verbally express my disapproval and maybe got a little loud and insulted her [saying that she was setting a bad example for our kids] and our guests who were within hearing range, which promptly broke up the party and I feel like an ass for my outburst and spoiling the sanook. In my rage, I did get a little physical by restraining her, but never hit her as she was begging me to do.

It is now, the morning after and I had a terrible night’s sleep with my guilt keeping me awake and feeling like I lost face as well as making my wife loose face.

Is it MY problem that I am intolerant of such behavior?? And do I have a problem with ‘control’??

It would appear that you clearly have a control problem that has manifested itself by causing you to become enraged. What type of physical restraint did you use - was it handcuffs, leg-irons tape etc. as traditionally boring superficial, arrogant people do often need to satisfy their dormant fantasies by indulging in sexual deviation such as sado-masochistic acts. Are you sure that having driven you wife to drink out of bordom from your puritanical and unsocial lifestyle you are not now satisfying your lust by using her social drinking as an excuse to restrain her and thus satisfy these traits ? It could be that having indulged in these acts you are now seeking absolution by hoping for symphathetic responses to. I would advise that you seek medical advice owing to your uncontrolable actions before you harm your spouse physically. Perhaps joining the monkhood for a few years could help you find solace through this difficult period and give you wife a period of freedom from your physical restraint desires.

[PeaceBlondie]

As guesthouse and others have stated, drinkers who drink less than a couple (two) drinks in a 24 hour time frame are no problem, but the drunks and the heavy drinkers are a threat to civilization. It is not Puritanical on the "I Drink Too Much" forum to criticize drunks and drunkenness and drunk drivers. Never Puritanical to criticize woman beaters.

[gjones]

As guesthouse and others have stated, drinkers who drink less than a couple (two) drinks in a 24 hour time frame are no problem, but the drunks and the heavy drinkers are a threat to civilization. It is not Puritanical on the "I Drink Too Much" forum to criticize drunks and drunkenness and drunk drivers. Never Puritanical to criticize woman beaters.

drunks and the heavy drinkers are a threat to civilization

This has to the craziest statement I have ever heard – Bible punchers, hard line extremists and George Bush are a threat to civilization not the old guy in the corner with his bottle of whisky

Get real mate

[Sheryl]

Reminder:

This is a sub-forum specifically for people seeking mutual help and support in dealing with an alcohol problem (their own or a family member/partner).

Any posts should be constructive in that regard.

Dismissing the seriousness of alcohol abuse doesn't fall into that category.

Everyobne's welcome to their views but there are other forums on TV more appropriate for those who feel that heavy drinking is no big deal....

[gjones]

Reminder:

This is a sub-forum specifically for people seeking mutual help and support in dealing with an alcohol problem (their own or a family member/partner).

Any posts should be constructive in that regard.

Dismissing the seriousness of alcohol abuse doesn't fall into that category.

Everyobne's welcome to their views but there are other forums on TV more appropriate for those who feel that heavy drinking is no big deal....

Sheryl,

The Op does not have a drink problem. His problem is that he dislikes people who get slightly inebriated so much that he has difficulty in trying to control him self from getting physical.

“I had my usual couple of glasses of wine and socialized with them until I became bored with the increasing slurring of speech, loudness, repetition, stupidity etc and I politely excused myself early.

The party went on til I was ready to sleep and my wife came in slightly inebriated and I was intolerant and started to verbally express my disapproval and maybe got a little loud and insulted her [saying that she was setting a bad example for our kids] and our guests who were within hearing range, which promptly broke up the party and I feel like an ass for my outburst and spoiling the sanook. In my rage, I did get a little physical by restraining her, but never hit her as she was begging me to do.

It is now, the morning after and I had a terrible night’s sleep with my guilt keeping me awake and feeling like I lost face as well as making my wife loose face.

Is it MY problem that I am intolerant of such behavior?? And do I have a problem with ‘control’??”

Some people are a problem when they get drunk but the majority of people remain civilized, I have a problem with some of the posts in this thread and find it necessary to challenge some very ridiculous and ambiguous statements.

I drink a large amount, far too much on the recommended quantity the experts seems to advise us on but if we all followed the recommendation on everything the experts tells us then our lives will become intolerable.

I have a friend who has lived in Thailand for over twenty years; he is 85 years old and drinks every day. He is healthy and very alert.

[PeaceBlondie]

All right, warmongers are a far worse threat to civilization. The alcoholics in my family and friends have serious personal problems that they won't solve by continuing to drink more than half an ounce of alcohol per day. The fact that some people cannot control their personal violence, especially when drunk, only makes the drinking worse.

One of my alcoholic in-laws drank himself to death before age 65. My high school buddy did not make it to age 20, and the wreck scarred his girlfriend for life. Drink did not help them, but it killed them.

[Sheryl]

And the OP, as I read it, does have an alcohol problem. Alcoholism affects everyone in the family, not only the drinker.

In any case, let me re-iterate, this is a forum for peopkle who want to stop drinking or otherwuse get help wioth an aochol-related problem.

Those who are happy with their drinking/don't think it's a problem/or just don't intend to address it, this forum is not for you.

[jaideeguy]

Thanks for your positive feedback....except for the negetave remarks that mostly came from defensive drinkers. You know who you are....

I would like to clearify a few things and update my situation. first off, i didn't physically abuse my wife and 'by restraining' I sinply pinned her arms down on the bed so she would stay and hear my rants. I have never hit a woman, but have been attacked by a few.

my OP was written after a sleepless night and maybe a little tainted and out of proportion.

also, i have no problem with a few friendly drinks among friends, but this was not the case this weekend, where my wife's friends, 2 Finnish guys and a bargirl along with my wife's sister [who is not a bar girl] were drinking all day, every day from 10am on till they drop!!

and 'the control issue'.....I don't like to control and feel bad when i do, but when things do get out of control, someone has to take control and I was the most sober of the party and it was my house and my children that were being exposed to stupid drunken people.

and, for the record, neither I or my wife is an alcoholic.

I consider this case closed and thank those with positive feedback for their constructive input........

[Sheryl]

Closed as per your request, but first may I say that "simply pinning her arms down on the bed so she would stay and hear my rant" DOES count as physical abuse. You used physical force to compel her to do something she didn't want to do.

That is coercion, it is taking unfair advantage of male physical strength, and in my book qualifies as abuse.