Penang To Impose Stricter Rules When Issuing Tourist Visas

[koheesti]

And, pardon me for getting uppity, but did go to great lenghts and considerable expense to follow the rules. I had medicals, criminal record checks and the like. Don't see why Thailand should throw open its doors and let people live here who lie about their purpose of stay and avoid any kind of background check.

How can someone avoid a background check is they get a tourist visa? The copy of your passport page you must give them should have enough info on it for the authorities to use for a background check.

[samran]

And, pardon me for getting uppity, but did go to great lenghts and considerable expense to follow the rules. I had medicals, criminal record checks and the like. Don't see why Thailand should throw open its doors and let people live here who lie about their purpose of stay and avoid any kind of background check.

How can someone avoid a background check is they get a tourist visa? The copy of your passport page you must give them should have enough info on it for the authorities to use for a background check.

It won't be long before many more countries move to a similar type of system that Australia uses for Tourist visas. Techinically, all people to Australia need a visa to enter. Most Western nationalities + Japanese, Sing, HK and Malaysians get what are called ETA visas - essentially an electronic invisible visa issued online. What many don't know is, as the online visa is 'processed' your name is actually run against a range of internationally shared databases. The US is one country actively investigating this system, and so are the EU by all accounts.

[tropo]

Brazil

Hmm - not even sure that the info above is correct. A friend of mine has a Brazilian wife and he told me that there is a 6 month per year maximum stay for, ahem, 'tourists'

And, pardon me for getting uppity, but did go to great lenghts and considerable expense to follow the rules. I had medicals, criminal record checks and the like. Don't see why Thailand should throw open its doors and let people live here who lie about their purpose of stay and avoid any kind of background check.

I can verify that this is true. A tourist can only stay for a maximum of 6 months per year in Brazil. Most countries will get a 90 day entry which will have to be extended.

[tropo]

It won't be long before many more countries move to a similar type of system that Australia uses for Tourist visas. Techinically, all people to Australia need a visa to enter. Most Western nationalities + Japanese, Sing, HK and Malaysians get what are called ETA visas - essentially an electronic invisible visa issued online. What many don't know is, as the online visa is 'processed' your name is actually run against a range of internationally shared databases. The US is one country actively investigating this system, and so are the EU by all accounts.

There's a big difference between Western developed nations and third world nations. Developed (rich) Nations need to be more careful to keep people out whereas most 3rd world nations desperately need the revenue.

Edited February 14, 2008 by tropo

[samran]

It won't be long before many more countries move to a similar type of system that Australia uses for Tourist visas. Techinically, all people to Australia need a visa to enter. Most Western nationalities + Japanese, Sing, HK and Malaysians get what are called ETA visas - essentially an electronic invisible visa issued online. What many don't know is, as the online visa is 'processed' your name is actually run against a range of internationally shared databases. The US is one country actively investigating this system, and so are the EU by all accounts.

There's a big difference between Western developed nations and third world nations. Developed (rich) Nations need to be more careful to keep people out whereas most 3rd world nations desperately need the revenue.

Tourism is a great earner, especially the the type which leaves after three weeks, and an electronic visa will do little to disuade people from travelling. A bit like the fuel levys that airlines have. It still doesn't stop you travelling.

I'd also humbly submit that while Thailand would benefit greatly from an open skilled migration programme in the same way as Singapore does, Thailand does not 'desperately' need the revenue from visa runners. As we've debated and proven time and again, the so-called 'long stay tourist' would count as a rounding error on Thailand's GDP accounting.

But anyway, my point in the quote was more to do with security, rather than immigration numbers. I've always been a proponent of skilled migration programmes and humane immigration laws for families living here.

[JetsetBkk]

I quoted 50 because that's the current limit. You need to ask immigration why that's the magic number.

They probably believe that at 50 and above ('retirement' age), you are less likely to compete for jobs against younger working Thais, and that therefore, the money you spend here is brought INTO the country and not earned in the country.

Unfortunately, you can't work or get a work permit if you're here on a visa or extension based on age, which I think is a great shame as there are quite a few things I could usefully do here if it wasn't for this "no work" rule.

[JetsetBkk]

Also what 'valid reason' to the over 50's have ?? Other than 'liking it here' ??

My valid reason for a one year visa is "retirement". I didn't make up the rules - immigration did.

"Retirement" is not a reason. It's more like a state of being. WHY have you chosen to retire in Thailand? Cheaper than back home? Enjoy the hot climate? The hot women? Food? Beaches? You just like being taller than most others? Find the language and/or culture interesting? Something else?

OK, let me rephrase: "retirement" is an age-based qualification for being here.

Plus all the above, naturally.

[JetsetBkk]

There's a big difference between Western developed nations and third world nations. Developed (rich) Nations need to be more careful to keep people out whereas most 3rd world nations desperately need the revenue.

Tourism is a great earner, especially the the type which leaves after three weeks, and an electronic visa will do little to dissuade people from travelling...

Thailand does not 'desperately' need the revenue from visa runners. As we've debated and proven time and again, the so-called 'long stay tourist' would count as a rounding error on Thailand's GDP accounting.

Nicely (and very tactfully) put.

[jstumbo]

Unfortunately, you can't work or get a work permit if you're here on a visa or extension based on age, which I think is a great shame as there are quite a few things I could usefully do here if it wasn't for this "no work" rule.

People say that they want to clamp down on the tourist visas to stop the people from working illegally here. I wonder how many people that are here for "retirement" are also working without a work permit the same way that some tourist visa people are? Maybe they should crack down on "retirement" visas and make them more difficult to stop the people working illegally on "retirement" visas?

[LivinLOS]

Brazil

Hmm - not even sure that the info above is correct. A friend of mine has a Brazilian wife and he told me that there is a 6 month per year maximum stay for, ahem, 'tourists'

And, pardon me for getting uppity, but did go to great lenghts and considerable expense to follow the rules. I had medicals, criminal record checks and the like. Don't see why Thailand should throw open its doors and let people live here who lie about their purpose of stay and avoid any kind of background check.

I can verify that this is true. A tourist can only stay for a maximum of 6 months per year in Brazil. Most countries will get a 90 day entry which will have to be extended.

But isnt it brazil (apologies if this is wrong but this is from memory and its first coffee of the morning time) that offers a really easy process to residency and citizenship ?? Remit 50k USD, the ability to own your own home, then PR and citizenship after just a few years automatically ??

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Bangkokgas, I always thought that the Japanese and Koreans get 90 days on arrival/no need for a visa? Can't they renew it?

Korean's do ( South Korea of course ) Japanese do not. They get 30 days.

[dbrenn]

It won't be long before many more countries move to a similar type of system that Australia uses for Tourist visas. Techinically, all people to Australia need a visa to enter. Most Western nationalities + Japanese, Sing, HK and Malaysians get what are called ETA visas - essentially an electronic invisible visa issued online. What many don't know is, as the online visa is 'processed' your name is actually run against a range of internationally shared databases. The US is one country actively investigating this system, and so are the EU by all accounts.

There's a big difference between Western developed nations and third world nations. Developed (rich) Nations need to be more careful to keep people out whereas most 3rd world nations desperately need the revenue.

Tourism is a great earner, especially the the type which leaves after three weeks, and an electronic visa will do little to disuade people from travelling. A bit like the fuel levys that airlines have. It still doesn't stop you travelling.

I'd also humbly submit that while Thailand would benefit greatly from an open skilled migration programme in the same way as Singapore does, Thailand does not 'desperately' need the revenue from visa runners. As we've debated and proven time and again, the so-called 'long stay tourist' would count as a rounding error on Thailand's GDP accounting.

But anyway, my point in the quote was more to do with security, rather than immigration numbers. I've always been a proponent of skilled migration programmes and humane immigration laws for families living here.

Agreed - Australia's ETA is a good system. I got one once and it only took a few minutes and a telephone call to the Aussie Embassy. In these days of computerisation, Thailand should use such a system to keep all the undesirables and criminals out. Too often, it seems, this country is used as a hiding place for fugitives and criminals that an ETA like system would stamp out.

Agreed also that Thailand, like every other country in the world, sees tourism as a money earner. Long term visa runners - residents who lie that they are 'tourists' , don't bring in significant amounts of money, are wantonly flouting its immigration laws, and cause national embarrassment when the criminal elements among them use the place as a hide out.

[koheesti]

Tourism is a great earner, especially the the type which leaves after three weeks,

The only way tourists here for 3-weeks or less earn more for Thailand than longer term tourists (I've been here under 6 months) is if you look at it in total number of one group versus the other. There are MANY more of the former than the later. A one on one comparison would show I've not only spent more than 99.9% of people who come here for under 3 weeks, I've spread it around more rather than giving the bulk of it to one resort (likely foreign-owned).

[lapamita]

The only way tourists here for 3-weeks or less earn more for Thailand than longer term tourists ,

i am one of the guys using at this time TR visa,bcs no alternative. but at this time they want to get me out, but 2 normal tourist would not come more, my mother and father stay here 3 month, they are so called quality turists, and there are many simmilar couples here. wahts is there budget,, no limit, next week they go on ship in singapore for 3000$,,, but in thailand they enjoy the beachlife. the condo is rented for 3 month for 50.000THB ( rent from a foreigner bcs it is CLEAN and renovated compare to THAI owned condos),, and daily they go to a beachrestaurant, totyal spend per day,, maximum 1000.- THB for 2 people! ( they not drink beer!).

my budget per month is 80.000thb, alone , and is much higher like my parents spend here.

But isnt it brazil (apologies if this is wrong but this is from memory and its first coffee of the morning time) that offers a really easy process to residency and citizenship ?? Remit 50k USD, the ability to own your own home, then PR and citizenship after just a few years automatically ??

YES< THATS FULLY TRUE! easy visa, easy landregistration, easy way......... i am speeking spanish and italy,, i love the south american countrys,, but dont want to live there because of massive CRIME in all of the countrys ( ex chile,arg)

[samran]

Unfortunately, you can't work or get a work permit if you're here on a visa or extension based on age, which I think is a great shame as there are quite a few things I could usefully do here if it wasn't for this "no work" rule.

People say that they want to clamp down on the tourist visas to stop the people from working illegally here. I wonder how many people that are here for "retirement" are also working without a work permit the same way that some tourist visa people are? Maybe they should crack down on "retirement" visas and make them more difficult to stop the people working illegally on "retirement" visas?

It is all about the category of visa in which you enter the country on. If you are claiming to be a retiree, you should be pretty much self funded, though I don't see a problem in giving some leeway in giving limited automatic work rights.

Australia and the UK for instance, set extremely high thresholds for those who want to retire, but if you qualify, you get the retirement visa and the right to work part time, say 20 hours per week. But the money earned shouldn't be to 'top up' your funds, and Australia in particular is pretty vigelent as far as making sure you don't actually need to work. Britain as an added bonus, makes the retirement visa a path to citizenship. Australia doesn't, on the premise you should be actively contruibuting - creating value to the society you live in- rather than just spending your retirement dosh (ie you can't just buy Australian citizenship which is what a retirement visa could essentially allow you to do).

As for working on tourist visas - that shouldn't be allowed. Having said that, I'm all for a pretty easy to get work permit system - so long as you have a skill which Thailand needs: anything from a decent electrician to an engineer, and that you pay taxes to Thailand for the monies you earn.

Doing so would show once and for all to the 'thailand doesn't want me here' brigade that even if they they were given relatively easy work rights that it is still hard to live here without the skills the market really demands. A bad business idea is still a bad business idea anywhere in the world (beer bar or mini-mart anyone?), and that even if you have the skills, you still have to earn a decent wage in Thailand to survive. That requires being able to price at a level many Thai's would flinch at.

It all comes down to having a skill or idea which is right for, and demanded by, the market. Work permits, and rights to work, are a side issue as many people with the right ideas thrive here anyway.

[chachachacha]

I still haven't seen anything official yet & previous experience of this board is that a lot of bullsh-t rumours are posted on a regular basis.

If it is official then show me the proof of it

[tropo]

Agreed - Australia's ETA is a good system. I got one once and it only took a few minutes and a telephone call to the Aussie Embassy. In these days of computerisation, Thailand should use such a system to keep all the undesirables and criminals out. Too often, it seems, this country is used as a hiding place for fugitives and criminals that an ETA like system would stamp out.

It depends where you come from. If you're Filipino, Thai, Cambodian or from many other countries in the region, try getting a tourist visa to visit Australia.

[bangkokgas]

Bangkokgas, I always thought that the Japanese and Koreans get 90 days on arrival/no need for a visa? Can't they renew it?

Korean's do ( South Korea of course ) Japanese do not. They get 30 days.

They do? Thats new to me. I wonder why. The Japanese account for far more investment and therefore jobs to Thais than the Koreans. Curious! My missus can't get a visa in Tokyo even if she shows them a millions bucks (well, a couple of hundred thousand). Can't work that one out.

[JetsetBkk]

It is all about the category of visa in which you enter the country on. If you are claiming to be a retiree, you should be pretty much self funded, though I don't see a problem in giving some leeway in giving limited automatic work rights.

Australia and the UK for instance, set extremely high thresholds for those who want to retire, but if you qualify, you get the retirement visa and the right to work part time, say 20 hours per week. But the money earned shouldn't be to 'top up' your funds,

That all sounds very sensible and is exactly what I would like to do here - a part time job, just earning a bit of pin-money to cover expenses, but giving me the opportunity to use 30+ years of work experience that is currently going to waste, and to get to know the locals.

[hunsen]

I still haven't seen anything official yet & previous experience of this board is that a lot of bullsh-t rumours are posted on a regular basis.

If it is official then show me the proof of it

I guess the only way to get the real lowdown is to actually go to the consulate in Penang and try and obtain a visa.

[Maigo6]

They do? Thats new to me. I wonder why. The Japanese account for far more investment and therefore jobs to Thais than the Koreans. Curious! My missus can't get a visa in Tokyo even if she shows them a millions bucks (well, a couple of hundred thousand). Can't work that one out.

That's a strange one Bkkgas, what reason do they give to refuse a visa ?

I have used the Thai Embassy in Tokyo on a few occasions and have thought them to be very accommodating.

I'm not Japanese BTW.

She can't even get a Tourist Visa ?

This is very strange as many Japanese get Non O visas there with no problem, as long as they have a reason and funds.

[bangkokgas]

They do? Thats new to me. I wonder why. The Japanese account for far more investment and therefore jobs to Thais than the Koreans. Curious! My missus can't get a visa in Tokyo even if she shows them a millions bucks (well, a couple of hundred thousand). Can't work that one out.

That's a strange one Bkkgas, what reason do they give to refuse a visa ?

I have used the Thai Embassy in Tokyo on a few occasions and have thought them to be very accommodating.

I'm not Japanese BTW.

She can't even get a Tourist Visa ?

This is very strange as many Japanese get Non O visas there with no problem, as long as they have a reason and funds.

Perhaps because, like the Americans, Japanese can get extra pages in their passports and my wifes shows that she spends half a year here. Maybe they are jusat pulling weight - I do not know, bit I assure you of that she cannot get one.

[bangkokgas]

They do? Thats new to me. I wonder why. The Japanese account for far more investment and therefore jobs to Thais than the Koreans. Curious! My missus can't get a visa in Tokyo even if she shows them a millions bucks (well, a couple of hundred thousand). Can't work that one out.

That's a strange one Bkkgas, what reason do they give to refuse a visa ?

I have used the Thai Embassy in Tokyo on a few occasions and have thought them to be very accommodating.

I'm not Japanese BTW.

She can't even get a Tourist Visa ?

This is very strange as many Japanese get Non O visas there with no problem, as long as they have a reason and funds.

Perhaps because, like the Americans, Japanese can get extra pages in their passports and my wifes shows that she spends half a year here. Maybe they are jusat pulling weight - I do not know, bit I assure you of that she cannot get one.

Just to clarify -she has not tried in the last three years, given up actually. Maybe also they do not believe her story and think she s doing business here -which she is not,well, except my laundry!!! lol

[RandyWhite]

Penang:Tuesday, March 4, 2008

Bought a return ticket BKK-PEN for two months time and submitted that with my TR visa application form.

NB: remember to check for Thai Govt. holidays when booking this far in advance - otherwise I would have been screwed by the May Day holiday)

PP returned today with usual TR visa (good for 60+30 days one would assume)

Bottom Line: "No problem, lovely budgie!"

(not even an 'Apply Elsewhere' next time stamp)

RAW

Heads Up: Too many 'banana lassies' - not enough real lassies

[Brian Allen]

"" Bought a return ticket BKK-PEN for two months time and submitted that with my TR visa application form ....

PP returned today with usual Tourist Visa ....

Bottom Line: "No problem ...

RAW

Excellent cutting-through of T-Vs usual at a minimum highly speculative and much more frequently patently delusionally-fantasized hyperbolic BS.

Thank you, RandyWhite.

Meanwhile, roughly forty-seven years since my first Thailand visit and into my eleventh year of this visit, I recently flew Business Class to and from a relatively near-abroad First-World city. After my arrival -- in less than 30 minutes and in the usual well-mannered and charmingly efficacious manner in which our gracious hosts conduct such business -- that city's Royal Thai Consulate issued me a Non-Immigrant "O" Visa -- and a "follow" visa for my also-foreign wife.

And -- in this mindless (Witness the 20+ pages of drivel that preceded your intelligent and informative post!) forum -- would no more post the Where and How of my Visa issue than I would cast pearls among swine!

Best regards.

Sincerely - Brian :.

[johniescfc]

We all have choices to decide if thailand is the place to live,based on many things.There are many bad europeans over here trying to dodge the system and i agree that this can deter them.However there are many ways of finding these undesirables and deporting them without damaging the thai economy of many millions of bahts from semi retired farangs.There should not be a problem to get a 1 year multi o visa and do the visa run 4 times over a 15 month period.

I am in favour of findings these crooks that visit thailand with illegal money from europe and send them to jail but i dont believe the thai police have a clue what they are doing without their snoops.

maybe a reward for telling the police of the bad boys here would help us poor retirees lol lol.,as i could make myself very rich.Anybody work for the english immigration/tax fraud as i have some great stories to tell for a large fee.

[tropo]

"" Bought a return ticket BKK-PEN for two months time and submitted that with my TR visa application form ....

PP returned today with usual Tourist Visa ....

Bottom Line: "No problem ...

RAW

Excellent cutting-through of T-Vs usual at a minimum highly speculative and much more frequently patently delusionally-fantasized hyperbolic BS.

Thank you, RandyWhite.

Meanwhile, roughly forty-seven years since my first Thailand visit and into my eleventh year of this visit, I recently flew Business Class to and from a relatively near-abroad First-World city. After my arrival -- in less than 30 minutes and in the usual well-mannered and charmingly efficacious manner in which our gracious hosts conduct such business -- that city's Royal Thai Consulate issued me a Non-Immigrant "O" Visa -- and a "follow" visa for my also-foreign wife.

And -- in this mindless (Witness the 20+ pages of drivel that preceded your intelligent and informative post!) forum -- would no more post the Where and How of my Visa issue than I would cast pearls among swine!

Best regards.

Sincerely - Brian :.

Both Singapore and Hong Kong will present problems to tourist visa applicants with a long history of tourist visas.

Perhaps you were just excited about posting some pseudo-intellectual drivel in an attempt to show you are far above the other "mindless swine" who posted "20+ pages of drivel" on this thread and that you fly business class with your "also foreign wife".

Next time please don't bother to post your non-report about flying to a "near-abroad First-World city" - we don't need your "highly speculative ... patently delusionally-fantasized hyperbolic BS" on here.

or....perhaps your just another obnoxious troll.

Best regards.

Sincerely - tropo

Edited March 5, 2008 by tropo

[JetsetBkk]

"" Bought a return ticket BKK-PEN for two months time and submitted that with my TR visa application form ....

PP returned today with usual Tourist Visa ....

Bottom Line: "No problem ...

RAW

Excellent cutting-through of T-Vs usual at a minimum highly speculative and much more frequently patently delusionally-fantasized hyperbolic BS.

Thank you, RandyWhite.

Meanwhile, roughly forty-seven years since my first Thailand visit and into my eleventh year of this visit, I recently flew Business Class to and from a relatively near-abroad First-World city. After my arrival -- in less than 30 minutes and in the usual well-mannered and charmingly efficacious manner in which our gracious hosts conduct such business -- that city's Royal Thai Consulate issued me a Non-Immigrant "O" Visa -- and a "follow" visa for my also-foreign wife.

And -- in this mindless (Witness the 20+ pages of drivel that preceded your intelligent and informative post!) forum -- would no more post the Where and How of my Visa issue than I would cast pearls among swine!

Best regards.

Sincerely - Brian :.

Both Singapore and Hong Kong will present problems to tourist visa applicants with a long history of tourist visas.

Perhaps you were just excited about posting some pseudo-intellectual drivel in an attempt to show you are far above the other "mindless swine" who posted "20+ pages of drivel" on this thread and that you fly business class with your "also foreign wife".

Next time please don't bother to post your non-report about flying to a "near-abroad First-World city" - we don't need your "highly speculative ... patently delusionally-fantasized hyperbolic BS" on here.

or....perhaps your just another obnoxious troll.

Best regards.

Sincerely - tropo

Hmm. Brian Allen, member no. 218, post: 38. I wonder what his other 37 posts are like?

[jstumbo]

Hmm. Brian Allen, member no. 218, post: 38. I wonder what his other 37 posts are like?

Oh, come on, get off his back. He is just a real slow typist...

[stevemiddie]

Typist is not the word I would use.