Thinking Of Moving To Thailand To Start A Business

[gnode]

Hey folks,

I'm looking for some general advise on a few different topics in regards to coming to Thailand to start a business. Here is a little background about me: I'm a US citizen, married to a Thai (who has since also obtained US citizenship). We have two sons, both US citizens. I've been to Thailand 5 times and spent a combined total of maybe 7-8 months in the LOS and I love it there. The longest trip for me was 3 months, but I've always dreamed of coming back to start some business ventures, to buy some land and build a house, and to teach my sons more about their ancestry and the Thai culture. I do speak some Thai, though not very well, so one of my goals while there would be to become more fluent. My wife of course is fluent in both Chaing Mai and Bangkok dialects.

My wife and I are thinking of moving to Thailand, initially for one year, and starting several business ventures. I have a computer science background, am nearing completion of a Master's degree in IT and have many skills that would be useful over there (besides teaching English) and my wife has an Associate's degree from a college in Thailand, so we have something to fall back on if our business ideas are unsuccessful. But we both have an entrepreneural spirit, are outgoing, and I believe we would do quite well. We have some savings, investments, and steady income to help us get started, and I may have some sources to borrow money from if needed. We also have some family on both her side and my side that have property, businesses, and/or investments in Thailand.

Since my wife and I have two distinct business ideas, and because of the visa and citizenship issues, I believe it would be best for her to open up a business in her name only. She would be able to run the business out of a house that we rent, somewhere near Chiang Mai. We would share an office there and would only require a decent Internet connection. I trust my wife and don't have a problem putting everything in her name initially. I don't see any real issues with this arrangement (and really only advantages, since I'm not a citizen), please tell me if there is something I'm not considering.

The second business I am initially getting into would be an International US-Based import/export business. This is where it gets tricky, and my questions begin. I understand that I would need an Import/Export license, but beyond that I have a lot of questions about the laws in Thailand:

- Would I need a work permit?

- What type of visa's would I be eligible for / or required to get for a one year stay? [my import/export business would most likely require some travel on my part, so visa runs may not be an issue, aside from cost and convenience, but I want to consider all options]

- What type of visa's would my sons require, and would it make more sense to apply for dual Thai citizenship? Is there any downside to dual citizenship? [for example, I have heard that even dual citizens are often summoned for Military service in Thailand]

- Can my wife open additional businesses in her name, that I will help manage? Would this change the requirement for a work permit or my visa eligibility?

- Would we be likely to run into any problems because she is married to a foreigner and has taken my last name? Can she be legally denied any rights to own property or a business or anything of that nature? How would we best handle these situations should they arise?

Thanks in advance for any and all advise.

[blizzard]

im assuming you have little kids . why in gods great earth would you want to raise them in thailand.

why doesnt yr wife just concentrate on one big moneymaking buznit, instead of a lot that makes little income..

shouldnt you spend yr time milking yr family for info as it sounds like they already making a ton of baht in los businesses

Edited February 4, 2008 by blizzard

[lannarebirth]

As an American you may enjoy the ability to fully own and control your business, if in certain business sectors. Google Thailand America Amity Treaty and perform a search of ThaiVisa for former threads on this topic.

http://www.chiangmailaw.com/amity2.htm

[gnode]

im assuming you have little kids . why in gods great earth would you want to raise them in thailand.

...

why doesnt yr wife just concentrate on one big moneymaking buznit, instead of a lot that makes little income..

...

shouldnt you spend yr time milking yr family for info as it sounds like they already making a ton of baht in los businesses

... my children are half Thai and I'd like them to spend some time in Thailand. We may not necessarily stay for many years, as once our businesses are established we'd like to travel and may only live part of the year in Thailand. Our initial plans are to stay for one year to see how we like it.

... my wife is only considering one "big moneymaking buznit" at this time, but we have ideas for expansion in the future should this venture be successful. I myself am also planning one single US based business.

... of course we talk to the family, but most of them are Thai citizens who have been in Thailand their entire lives, and many don't speak English. Most of them run small, local operations whereas we will be catering towards international clientele. There are many distinct differences. I am attempting to gather information from as many sources as possible.

[gnode]

As an American you may enjoy the ability to fully own and control your business, if in certain business sectors. Google Thailand America Amity Treaty and perform a search of ThaiVisa for former threads on this topic.

http://www.chiangmailaw.com/amity2.htm

Thanks for the suggestion. I have read a little bit about the Amity Treaty, but don't think it's really necessary at this time. I think it would be quicker, easier, and cheaper for my wife to start her business without having to deal with any complications from having a "farang" owner. Sure, I'll help her manage the business and provide the startup cash, but I really see no real advantage to having ownership (and/or "control") on paper. If we expand into multiple, hugely profitable businesses then perhaps I'll reconsider ownership at that time, but for her initial business I think it's not worth the hassle and expense.

For all the naysayers (as I feel them lurking), as I've stated before, I've spent plenty of time in Thailand (and my stepmother growing up was also Thai). I've been with my wife for nearly 8 years, and we have two kids together. I'm really not worried about her ripping me off, and if she does, I'm sure she'll share the wealth with my kids so I'm just not concerned with that. The business is for her, as like I said, I'll be operating my own import/export business and have plenty of other skills and investments to fall back on.

[blizzard]

5 trips 4 a total of 8 months is a lot of time spent in los?

what kind of buznit will run on its own once established? you ever seen thai workers..............lol.

[Smithson]

you ever seen thai workers..............lol.

Holidaying here and working here are very different experiences.

[007]

5 trips 4 a total of 8 months is a lot of time spent in los?

what kind of buznit will run on its own once established? you ever seen thai workers..............lol.

There won't be much left of your buznit if you leave it in Thai personnel's hand for months without keeping your hands on revenue and cash income.

[Edonista]

shouldnt you spend yr time milking yr family for info as it sounds like they already making a ton of baht in los businesses

perhaps they are not already making but for sure they are already thinking how to spend them

[fletchsmile]

...

- Would I need a work permit?

- What type of visa's would I be eligible for / or required to get for a one year stay? [my import/export business would most likely require some travel on my part, so visa runs may not be an issue, aside from cost and convenience, but I want to consider all options]

- What type of visa's would my sons require, and would it make more sense to apply for dual Thai citizenship? Is there any downside to dual citizenship? [for example, I have heard that even dual citizens are often summoned for Military service in Thailand]

- Can my wife open additional businesses in her name, that I will help manage? Would this change the requirement for a work permit or my visa eligibility?

- Would we be likely to run into any problems because she is married to a foreigner and has taken my last name? Can she be legally denied any rights to own property or a business or anything of that nature? How would we best handle these situations should they arise?

Thanks in advance for any and all advise.

- Legally you generally need a work permit to be doing any business in/from Thailand. Paid or not. Tho' there are exceptions. This was exemplified where during the Tsunami they got on the cases of unpaid volunteer workers for not having WPs

- Visa rules have toughened up. You could likely get a visa based on marriage. Tourist visas wouldn't last you a year. Non-immigrant B could be an option if you go the WP route.

- Dual citizenship is allowed in Thailand. Comes in handy some times.

- Yes your wife can open businesses in her name. No you can't manage them without a WP

- Legally she can do things that other Thais can do, despite being married to a foreigner. There are occasionally a few areas where extra paperwork is needed, eg signing a doc on purchase of property in her name to say it came from her funds.

On some occasions some Thais may be a little ignorant of the rules, or may simply want to cause a little extra hassle because she is married to a foreigner. Usually it's not serious though.

On the whole I think you get more respect from Thais showing you are legally married, with your wife and children having the same surname as you, and obviously being your own kids.

Personally I've found that outside the circles such as work where I'm usually treated with respect anyway, I'm usually treated a little better overall when out with my wife and daughter as a family.

[ttthailand]

If you need to make money while living here it is best to make it outside of Thailand and bring it in as needed. Perhaps as a contractor or consultant. Keep it totally out of the Thai system. Let your wife have a little shop that may or may not make anything.

It is difficult to make much if anything in Thailand. Your standards are higher then Thai and thus you will need more to live on. Thais work for very little and business owners are happy for little income. Many small Thai businesses make only 10 to 20 K a month. They have to work many hours for that ! I had an international company in Thailand for over 10 years and the country has a way of sucking out all they can. To do it on the up and up you will have to open a company, have 2 mil. baht paid up capital, have 7 Thai employees, pay every year for work permit, pay company taxes and audit, pay your taxes ( if you make money or not ! ) etc etc... Stay out of the system !

Your timing is also a little funny as many are heading in the other direction, out of the country. Thailand is becoming difficult for any foreigner to work and own a business. Stay where you are and move over when you retire. Perhaps send over a few dollars now to buy a little land for later, prices are still good in farm country.

Some may disagree but I have been there and done it. Perhaps in 5 years my advise may change but for now no way !

[gnode]

- Legally you generally need a work permit to be doing any business in/from Thailand. Paid or not. Tho' there are exceptions. This was exemplified where during the Tsunami they got on the cases of unpaid volunteer workers for not having WPs

- Visa rules have toughened up. You could likely get a visa based on marriage. Tourist visas wouldn't last you a year. Non-immigrant B could be an option if you go the WP route.

- Dual citizenship is allowed in Thailand. Comes in handy some times.

- Yes your wife can open businesses in her name. No you can't manage them without a WP

- Legally she can do things that other Thais can do, despite being married to a foreigner. There are occasionally a few areas where extra paperwork is needed, eg signing a doc on purchase of property in her name to say it came from her funds.

On some occasions some Thais may be a little ignorant of the rules, or may simply want to cause a little extra hassle because she is married to a foreigner. Usually it's not serious though.

On the whole I think you get more respect from Thais showing you are legally married, with your wife and children having the same surname as you, and obviously being your own kids.

Personally I've found that outside the circles such as work where I'm usually treated with respect anyway, I'm usually treated a little better overall when out with my wife and daughter as a family.

According to the info on Sunbelt Asia, in order to get a Non-Immigrant ( Visa, I would need to have Thai employees, 1m Baht in Equity, and previous year's revenue, which basically implies that I already have a business and intend to hire Thai employees. My import/export business would be US based, and I wouldn't be hiring anyone, only purchasing merchandise for export. Is the information there misleading?

On the other hand, the marriage Visa requires 40,000 baht in monthly income. Does that basically mean I just have to show a bank statement showing that I have atleast the equivalent of 40,000 x 12 = 480,000 THB in my US bank account, or does it have to be regular income like a pension or investment dividends or the like? Would the money have to be transferred into a Thai bank account in advance, or do I just have to prove that I have it, then can draw on it as needed? I'm assuming that this visa is valid for a full year and doesn't require visa runs - is that correct?

I personally cannot get dual Thai citizenship, because according to US law, if a US citizen applies for citizenship in another country they must first renounce their US citizenship which I'm not prepared to do. My boys on the other hand, should be eligible to apply for Thai citizenship without that requirement, based on birth to a Thai citizen. I'm specifically wondering if there are any disadvantages to them doing this, other than the expense and possible military obligation?

My wife and I have been treated very well throughout Thailand and I really don't see why anyone would give us a hard time about doing business there, but I've heard many horror stories of foreigners being overcharged and asked for bribes or mystery fees and things when trying to make large transactions. Hopefully we'll just continue to keep our wits about us and ask all the right questions and avoid any of these unpleasant experiences. I have to assume that most of the time that these things happen, it's due to a combination of the foreigner's ignorance/carelessness and/or they've insulted someone in some way. There will always be jerks out there that try to rip you off, but if you carefully research all applicable laws you always know when to walk away.

I'll never forget the first time my father came to Bangkok, after I had been there for several months. He, of course, looked and acted like a typical tourist and everyone in the world tried to trick him out of his baht. We hailed a taxi to take us to Lumpini Stadium to see Muay Thai, but the driver insisted that it was closed because of the "Queen's Birthday", and that we should let him take us to the "lady show" instead. I assured him that I knew that the Queen's Birthday had been about 10 days prior, but he persisted, pulling out a schedule written in Thai, giving the times and dates of all the shows. He was quite shocked when I asked to look at the schedule and my father and I were literate enough to figure out that there was, in fact, a show that night and told him what time the show was starting. Amazingly, he still kept on, but I'm pretty sure he knew the gig was up and that he wasn't going to be making any extra satang off these farangs that night. We did give him a fair tip for an entertaining ride though.

[gnode]

If you need to make money while living here it is best to make it outside of Thailand and bring it in as needed. Perhaps as a contractor or consultant. Keep it totally out of the Thai system. Let your wife have a little shop that may or may not make anything.

It is difficult to make much if anything in Thailand. Your standards are higher then Thai and thus you will need more to live on. Thais work for very little and business owners are happy for little income. Many small Thai businesses make only 10 to 20 K a month. They have to work many hours for that ! I had an international company in Thailand for over 10 years and the country has a way of sucking out all they can. To do it on the up and up you will have to open a company, have 2 mil. baht paid up capital, have 7 Thai employees, pay every year for work permit, pay company taxes and audit, pay your taxes ( if you make money or not ! ) etc etc... Stay out of the system !

Your timing is also a little funny as many are heading in the other direction, out of the country. Thailand is becoming difficult for any foreigner to work and own a business. Stay where you are and move over when you retire. Perhaps send over a few dollars now to buy a little land for later, prices are still good in farm country.

Some may disagree but I have been there and done it. Perhaps in 5 years my advise may change but for now no way !

I agree with much of your advise, in general, and I appreciate what you are saying. If retirement were only a few years away, and I had a great retirement fund or something already lined up I would probably just wait it out or consider someplace more advantageous, like Vietnam. My interest in Thailand, unlike most expats however, is rooted as much in my family's cultural background as well as the economical advantages.

As for sources of income, I may also look into LHFN positions with International companies while I am there, but the timing for me is pretty good right now in that I'm between contracts and we have enough savings that if we came over and failed in both of our businesses, we could still live fairly comfortably for about a year and we'd get to spend time in a place we love, visit with family, and learn a tremendous amount about doing business in Thailand without much fear of going completely bankrupt. I will still have some modest investments and years of experience and education in the US to fall back on.

As for staying "out of the system", this is precisely what I'm trying to do, as much as possible, at least for the first year or so. My wife will open her business in her own name, spend relatively little startup cash, and probably make enough profit to easily pay the rent and basic living expenses. I believe her idea is really good and could likely net 30K THB profit each month to start, and could likely expand quite a bit over time. I'll help her do everything legitimately and pay her taxes and all that good stuff. I'm still not sure how I would legally help her manage her business, as I would surely be at least a "consultant", although I'm not sure how they would prove that I'm anything more than the guy who gives his wife the investment money. I would definitely be helping her with marketing and networking, so I wouldn't be working behind the scenes, which is what makes me feel like it would be best to ensure nobody could hassle us about my involvement. The last thing we need is regular shakedowns from the local authorities!

My business is a little bit trickier, because while I will apply for a business license and pay taxes in the US. Until I come to LOS and start exporting, there is no business, and the requirements I've read about for work permits / business visas seem to be geared towards business people that already have a history of revenue or intend to employ Thai citizens. I guess what I really need is some specific advise on how to legally export products from Thailand, because technically I'm not running a business in Thailand - I'm running a business in the US and coming to Thailand to purchase mechandise - I also happen to want to live there for a little while with my wife and kids. The profit is actually made overseas, and taxes are paid overseas. In this case, I'm still not technically working in Thailand, and therefore still fuzzy on whether I need a work permit at all, particularly just to be an exporter.

As for the timing, I've always liked to go against the grain. Maybe it's a good thing that competition is thinning and some folks are running for the hills. From what I've been reading, the Thai economy is actually getting much stronger, Chiang Mai is developing quickly, and the salad days for foreigners with modest fixed incomes are pretty much over. Hopefully tourism and investment will continue and real estate and investments will appreciate at a nice pace and hopefully 20 years from now, when Thailand is a 1st world economy, our interests will be well entrenched. The cost of living there is still many times less than what I would spend living in the US, and that savings alone makes it worth a shot in my opinion.

[fletchsmile]

BTW As you've got kids, check out the threads on schools and education, including family section.

Very good free educations are difficult to come by here. If you're wanting international standard you'll need to pay. This could be in the region of USD10k a year each in fees at an International Schoold. If you go next level down to Bi-lingual, you're still looking at USD 2-3k a year per child. Won't go into details here, but you should definitely check it out.

Personally education is perhaps the biggest reason I could foresee why we would consider a move away from Thailand. Perhaps not really an issue if you've endless cash, but that's debateable. Could be on the amounts you mention.

Edited February 6, 2008 by fletchsmile

[gnode]

BTW As you've got kids, check out the threads on schools and education, including family section.

Very good free educations are difficult to come by here. If you're wanting international standard you'll need to pay. This could be in the region of USD10k a year each in fees at an International Schoold. If you go next level down to Bi-lingual, you're still looking at USD 2-3k a year per child. Won't go into details here, but you should definitely check it out.

Personally education is perhaps the biggest reason I could foresee why we would consider a move away from Thailand. Perhaps not really an issue if you've endless cash, but that's debateable. Could be on the amounts you mention.

Yeah, just spent a couple hours doing some research, including browsing the Kids & Family forum. I found a lot of interesting information, some positive, some not so positive, but for at least the time frame I have in mind initially, I'm not deterred. My oldest is 3-1/2, so a one-year stint would have us considering reevaluating our arrangements prior to his turning 5, which is about the time he would normally enter grade K in the 'states. I think particularly at their current ages, a year in LOS would be a very positive, enjoyable experience. International schools are quite expensive, but we're looking at probably having to fund some sort of private school education almost no matter what, as the public school education in the US has many of its own drawbacks as well.

Turns out the Non-Immigrant Visa based on marriage is probably going to be our best bet initially, and if my import/export business does well I could return on a 3-Year ( Visa with multiple entry. Not a bad arrangement, as I'll likely want to travel at least once every quarter for business purposes anyways.

I'm still trying to get some solid information about the regulations, forms, and fees required for my wife to start her business. Can anyone point me to a website not geared towards foreigners, but rather the rules for a regular thai citizen opening a business in Thailand? I'm hoping that 35K THB registration fee only applies to foreign owned businesses, as that's more than it costs to open a business in the US. Yikes!

Endless cash... yeah, i wish!

[lazeeboy]

im bringing up kids in thailand ,they are thai,i wish i could have brought up my english kids up in thailand ,its much safer than the uk ,less struggles with money ,i say good luck to you .

[Smithson]

My business is a little bit trickier, because while I will apply for a business license and pay taxes in the US. Until I come to LOS and start exporting, there is no business, and the requirements I've read about for work permits / business visas seem to be geared towards business people that already have a history of revenue or intend to employ Thai citizens. I guess what I really need is some specific advise on how to legally export products from Thailand, because technically I'm not running a business in Thailand - I'm running a business in the US and coming to Thailand to purchase mechandise - I also happen to want to live there for a little while with my wife and kids. The profit is actually made overseas, and taxes are paid overseas. In this case, I'm still not technically working in Thailand, and therefore still fuzzy on whether I need a work permit at all, particularly just to be an exporter.

It's not fuzzy at all, you would be considered working. Technically even people with garment businesses overseas who visit to Thailand to purchase are considered to be working here. A few years ago Australian auditors were arrested and jailed for a few hours for because they left their office to check the accounts of another company. They had work permits, but these only allow you to work in a single place and the duties are limited. You would eligible to pay tax here also, both company and income.

As for the timing, I've always liked to go against the grain. Maybe it's a good thing that competition is thinning and some folks are running for the hills. From what I've been reading, the Thai economy is actually getting much stronger, Chiang Mai is developing quickly, and the salad days for foreigners with modest fixed incomes are pretty much over. Hopefully tourism and investment will continue and real estate and investments will appreciate at a nice pace and hopefully 20 years from now, when Thailand is a 1st world economy, our interests will be well entrenched. The cost of living there is still many times less than what I would spend living in the US, and that savings alone makes it worth a shot in my opinion.

The competition is thinning but not as much as the opportunities. Exporting to the US is not so profitable with the low dollar. Chiang Mai may be developing, but not sure about tourism. My guess is it will be a congested, polluted mess in a few years, there's already major problems with pollution.

I can't ever see Thailand becoming a 1st world or developed country. They don't have the education system, work ethic or general attitude to do so. The place is great for a holiday, the ppl are nice and relaxed, the weather and food are great. Working here is different, it's difficult to rely on ppl who are relaxed and more worried about the somtam they're having for dinner than getting the job done.

[Naam]

I personally cannot get dual Thai citizenship, because according to US law, if a US citizen applies for citizenship in another country they must first renounce their US citizenship which I'm not prepared to do.

wrong information. U.S. allows but does not encourage dual nationality.

quote: "While recognizing the existence of dual nationality and permitting Americans to have other nationalities, the U.S. Government does not endorse dual nationality as a matter of policy because of the problems which it may cause. Claims of other countries upon dual-national U.S. citizens often place them in situations where their obligations to one country are in conflict with the laws of the other. In addition, their dual nationality may hamper efforts to provide diplomatic and consular protections to them when they are abroad."

[Naam]

I can't ever see Thailand becoming a 1st world or developed country.

why not? it's only a matter of time. just wait a century... or perhaps two

[blizzard]

or 3!

[LivinLOS]

According to the info on Sunbelt Asia, in order to get a Non-Immigrant ( Visa, I would need to have Thai employees, 1m Baht in Equity, and previous year's revenue, which basically implies that I already have a business and intend to hire Thai employees. My import/export business would be US based, and I wouldn't be hiring anyone, only purchasing merchandise for export. Is the information there misleading?

No its not missleading in that the steps involved to be fully legal are not small and usually suck any and all profit from a small one man type business.

On the other hand, the marriage Visa requires 40,000 baht in monthly income. Does that basically mean I just have to show a bank statement showing that I have atleast the equivalent of 40,000 x 12 = 480,000 THB in my US bank account, or does it have to be regular income like a pension or investment dividends or the like? Would the money have to be transferred into a Thai bank account in advance, or do I just have to prove that I have it, then can draw on it as needed? I'm assuming that this visa is valid for a full year and doesn't require visa runs - is that correct?

You need to show verified income, the easiest way is thai taxes paid on that income but a statement from your embassy will also work. Not sure how the US embassy verifys it or if you just sign in. Thats combined income for the pair of you I think.

I personally cannot get dual Thai citizenship, because according to US law, if a US citizen applies for citizenship in another country they must first renounce their US citizenship which I'm not prepared to do. My boys on the other hand, should be eligible to apply for Thai citizenship without that requirement, based on birth to a Thai citizen. I'm specifically wondering if there are any disadvantages to them doing this, other than the expense and possible military obligation?

ha ha ha.. Theres a lot more reasons why you cant than that !!

My wife and I have been treated very well throughout Thailand and I really don't see why anyone would give us a hard time about doing business there, but I've heard many horror stories of foreigners being overcharged and asked for bribes or mystery fees and things when trying to make large transactions. Hopefully we'll just continue to keep our wits about us and ask all the right questions and avoid any of these unpleasant experiences. I have to assume that most of the time that these things happen, it's due to a combination of the foreigner's ignorance/carelessness and/or they've insulted someone in some way. There will always be jerks out there that try to rip you off, but if you carefully research all applicable laws you always know when to walk away.

Sorry train sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen. Corruption and scamming are a way of life here, its entwined into the very fabric of society, theres no escape from it and applies to thais also tho not as much as it happens to farang wishing to do almost anything. Was talking to a thai chinese hotel owner yesterday who was describing how the minimise thier corrpution payments through old boy networking, thats simply not available to us farangs fresh off the plane.

Last one "if you carefully research all applicable laws you always know when to walk away".. LOL.. Thai laws are made to be broken, the whole Thai legal statute is vague and grey, so it can be selectively applied whenever and to whoever they feel like yet also be broken for the right amount of grease.

Your not in Kansas any more Dorothy !!

Good luck.

Edited February 7, 2008 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

My business is a little bit trickier, because while I will apply for a business license and pay taxes in the US. Until I come to LOS and start exporting, there is no business, and the requirements I've read about for work permits / business visas seem to be geared towards business people that already have a history of revenue or intend to employ Thai citizens. I guess what I really need is some specific advise on how to legally export products from Thailand, because technically I'm not running a business in Thailand - I'm running a business in the US and coming to Thailand to purchase mechandise - I also happen to want to live there for a little while with my wife and kids. The profit is actually made overseas, and taxes are paid overseas. In this case, I'm still not technically working in Thailand, and therefore still fuzzy on whether I need a work permit at all, particularly just to be an exporter.

Dont kid yourself..

If you live and work in Thailand you owe Thai taxes.. There no exceptions despite what many others also breaking the law will say.

To legalize yourself you need a work permit.. To get a work permit you need a sponser company or to make your own.

End of.

[LivinLOS]

I'm still trying to get some solid information about the regulations, forms, and fees required for my wife to start her business. Can anyone point me to a website not geared towards foreigners, but rather the rules for a regular thai citizen opening a business in Thailand? I'm hoping that 35K THB registration fee only applies to foreign owned businesses, as that's more than it costs to open a business in the US. Yikes!

Endless cash... yeah, i wish!

If your thinking that 35k is a large hurdle to setting up in biz here.. I am worried about your assets (also saying you have a 1 year buffer in savings)..

Parts of Thailand (the part I am in) is no longer cheap.. Much of life would be cheaper back where my father has a house in S of France than it would be where I am on Phuket.

As to kids education.. The only school I would consider sending kids to here is the ex Dulwich (now BICS ??).. My buddy has his kid in there and costs him >20k USD etc and thats while in the juniors.. Really pricey !! But then they are your kids, you really dont want them starting life with Thai education and opportunities do you ??

[gnode]

I appreciate the responses, but wow, the negativity from much of the expat community never ceases to amaze me.

While I agree that Thailand wouldn't likely ever reach 1st world status on their own, the pressure to permit more and more foreign investment, particularly US business investments, will continue to encourage growth and will improve Thailand's economy over time. As much as the Thais try to resist letting foreigners in, they also know it's the only way to keep their economy afloat. 10% of Thailand's GDP comes from US based investments alone, and nearly 70% of that GDP is from exports. While the falling dollar could potentially decrease profits on sales of exports to the US, there are many other places to export to, and this is primarily a concern with products of lower quality with higher markups. Customers will pay more for high quality products, no matter where they come from or what the exchange rate is. It'll be my job to locate those high quality products, whether it's in Thailand or elsewhere. The cost of living is still reasonable in Chiang Mai, so like I've said several times, this advantage alone makes it worth it to me to come over for a while and enjoy the pleasant weather and hospitality in LOS.

Either way, from the research I've done over the past couple of days it appears that it shouldn't be too hard to get this business up and running, legally, it'll just take some patience on my part to do the research and obtain answers from reliable sources. I guess I'll be consulting with some lawyers here real soon.

As for the visa, I don't know where the 40,000 baht per month comes into play because the Thai consulate here doesn't seem to have any such requirement, and can approve a visa based on marriage for up to a full year, but it's done on a case by case basis. Whether they will or not is another story, but we'll see what happens I guess. Maybe that proof of income requirement is when one tries to obtain an extension while already in country?

[lopburi3]

The 40k comes into play for one year extensions of stay inside Thailand - which could lead to Permanent Residence or even citizenship at some point.

Your "I personally cannot get dual Thai citizenship, because according to US law, if a US citizen applies for citizenship in another country they must first renounce their US citizenship which I'm not prepared to do" is totally wrong, as a one minute Google would have shown you. I hope that your business research was more complete. But believe the negativity you see is partly based on the feeling that you have not done so.

That said; you are asking now and urge you to take all, constructive and what you may feel negative, into consideration and continue your research.

[LivinLOS]

One mans negativity is another mans experience

[Smithson]

That said; you are asking now and urge you to take all, constructive and what you may feel negative, into consideration and continue your research.

This is good advice, the negativity you see here is not your usual "Thais can't be trusted and just want to rip you off". It's based on experience, ppl are trying to counter your optimism. Many of us were once like you, despite our negativity we're still here, but we've seen many ppl end of broke or worse.

From what I've seen most ppl spend more living here than the do on holidays, especially when they try to set up businesses. Everybody who doesn't open a bar or guest house in Chiang Mai will try to do export. So you'd be traveling a well paved road. You may succeed but it won't be easy, as many before you have tried and failed.

[steveromagnino]

I'll offer you a slightly different view.

Irrespective of whether Thailand advances or not will certainly not hinge of Americans coming here. The Treaty of Amity, illegal by WTO standards, is a hold over from past US favouritism, but the real success of Thailand and yourself does not relate to nationalities.

Starting a business here is the same as anywhere in the world - find a target market, give them something that they want at a price they are willing to pay, then ensure that your brand or some other barriers to entry stop others from doing the same thing. The reason why exports are a 'bit dodgy' is that every unemployed farang and his dog tries to do the same thing....as do many returning college students. There is still room for more, but you BETTER have an angle or expertise beyond authentic Thai silk neckties and those wooden frogs - e.g. gems, flowers, siamese fighting fish, etc etc. Ditto for the other usual businesses of guest house, restuarant, bar or, really out there, massage/spa. I have no idea how you will have the skills to find these 'high quality products' you speak of to market, that others cannot find, when you don't appear to have any additional connections and most likely less, but that is the pessimist in me speaking.

Regarding work ethics, I worked in America and found plenty of the people to be complete morons and slackers; not significantly different to here. People can hire top workers when they are willing to pay them decent wages and offer them decent opportunity. That is hard to master at a labourer level. Some people don't know how to work with Thais because there are cultural differences; I would not assume that you have mastered these, everyone can learn more about how to manage others. I do not realistically see how a foreigner can be a good manager or leader without command of the Thai language. So...it's important.

Your sons if not born here can probably acquire dual citizenship without serving miliitary service, but it is not guaranteed. That is a price to pay for being a Thai national.

You are theoretically eligible for Thai nationality after living and working here for several years, you in no way have to give up your US citizenship, and if they think you are doing it to get out of tax, then they might not believe you. You cannot get it easily as your wife probably did via marriage; Thailand would be overrun with foreign men wearing Chang singlets were that the case. [a joke]

BTW don't overestimate US business interests here; your country is a major export market to be sure, but just as NZ weaned itself from USA after the anti nuclear stance (and has shot ahead as a result), so THailand must do so. I am surprised to hear US FI is so high; and doubt it has any large impact of the economy - probably focused on a few key industries perhaps car/tire manufacturing and energy or similar.

I'd speak to Sunbelt, set up a legit business, hire yourself as the 1 foreigner with 4 Thai employees, pay yourself a decent wage (which I think is required to be about 80,000b for an American) so you can get a business visa/extension and work permit. The tax and paperwork are not much for anyone IMHO, and it means you can be legit from the beginning.

[Smithson]

I'll offer you a slightly different view.

I'd speak to Sunbelt, set up a legit business, hire yourself as the 1 foreigner with 4 Thai employees, pay yourself a decent wage (which I think is required to be about 80,000b for an American) so you can get a business visa/extension and work permit. The tax and paperwork are not much for anyone IMHO, and it means you can be legit from the beginning.

Good post and advice, I'd agree with the quote above, except don't go down the business visa (non- route, instead I'd recommend a marriage visa (non O). Besides allowing you and you're wife to earn a combined B40,000 to qualify, it's also less strict in terms of what sort of a profit you business shows.

[steveromagnino]

I'll offer you a slightly different view.

I'd speak to Sunbelt, set up a legit business, hire yourself as the 1 foreigner with 4 Thai employees, pay yourself a decent wage (which I think is required to be about 80,000b for an American) so you can get a business visa/extension and work permit. The tax and paperwork are not much for anyone IMHO, and it means you can be legit from the beginning.

Good post and advice, I'd agree with the quote above, except don't go down the business visa (non- route, instead I'd recommend a marriage visa (non O). Besides allowing you and you're wife to earn a combined B40,000 to qualify, it's also less strict in terms of what sort of a profit you business shows.

that may indeed be true; marriage I have no experience in thank goodness I'll stick with being single, as do most of my friends. Either way, I think talking to a genuine law firm with experience in this area, will set the OP up with a decent structure to do what he needs to do.