Can The Language Barrier Drive A Farang Out Of The Kingdom Eventually?

[freitag1]

Even though I plan to spend half of each year in Thailand I don't want to learn the language. It just doesn't make that much sense for me because I'm not interested in other locals here and if I would have the time to learn another language it wouldn't be Thai. I guess it would be different if my girl wouldn't speak English so well.

[Naam]

Perhaps I should have worded it differently. Personally, life was very difficult for me before I knew how to speak Thai. And it was a painful learning process.

as i said a personal view, but not necessarily applicable to others. my wife and me have spent holidays in Thailand for more than a quarter century. we live here now for more than three years. the thai my wife speaks is limited to "sawasdee khra". i know a dozen polite sentences and the numbers plus a dozen obscene words (which i picked up in ancient times when i visited Thailand as a bachelor ) but we are getting along fine.

you are Thai and want to work for us but you don't speak some basic english, french, german, spanish or italian? sorry, no can do! you are a contractor but you don't understand some basic german, english, spanish, italian or french concerning the work i would like to have done? sorry, no can do! as simple as that

[Neeranam]

Maybe I could sing "Y-M-C-A-" in Thai!

Young man, there's no need to feel down.

I said, young man, pick yourself off the ground.

I said, young man, 'cause you're in a new town

There's no need to be unhappy

khon noom mai dtong reusook yeah

chan bok khon noom gratchap grachaeng

pom bok khon noom pro wa dton nee yoo meuang mai

mai mee prayot arai tee koon ja mai mee kwam sook

คนหนุ่มไม่ต้องรู้สึกแย่

ฉันบอกคนหนุ่ม กระฉักระเฉงหน่อย

ผมบอกคนหนุ่มเพราะว่าตอนนี้อยู่เมืองใหม่

ไม่มีประโยชย์อะไรที่คุณจะไม่มีความสุข

That's exactly what you need to do - I translated Lung Ke Mao by Carabao and it opened many new doors for me in learning.

Thanks for letting me pactice my writing

You missed off "noi" after grachaeng in your transliteraltion

OMG - I'm a failure.

[ISANMAN]

I really can't understand the problem.I am assuming of course that you "do" your hair everyday. It is so easy to ask "What is it?". When you have found what you want then ask this question and remember the word. This way you will be learning countless words everyday. You don't need courses or anything like that. You are living in Thailand so just get out there and enjoy yourself while you are learning what is, apart from some pronunciation, an easy language to learn.

[a2396]

Best is to have some Thai friends who can speak some English. I have several and they are a great help to me. They also see some advantage to knowing me, since they can practice their English. Unfortunately, the majority of Thais have little interest in Englsih & are light years behind somewhere like Malaysia with this. I also have a PDA electronic dictionary, which is usefull at times. Finally, i would never live in a rural village. Not my kind of place to be.

[Neeranam]

Best is to have some Thai friends who can speak some English. I have several and they are a great help to me. They also see some advantage to knowing me, since they can practice their English. Unfortunately, the majority of Thais have little interest in Englsih & are light years behind somewhere like Malaysia with this. I also have a PDA electronic dictionary, which is usefull at times. Finally, i would never live in a rural village. Not my kind of place to be.

I disagree - I learnt most of the Thai I know with Thai friends who couldn't speak English.

I agree about the rural village though, although I don't see the relevance. Living in a rural village - one has to speak I would imagine or would feel like a prisoner.

[PeaceBlondie]

I went back to Thai For Beginners, by Benjawan Poomsan Becker, which I have glanced at for four years now. Highly recommended as the easiest beginner book, it boggles my mind. I have had attention deficit disorder since age 17 (with narcolepsy), and by determination mastered 5.5 years of university (much of it in night school), the complexities of US income tax, Spanish, a couple of careers, etc. I thought I could bite off little nibbles of Thai, starting with the letters. You have got to be kidding! ห ส ำ ห ร น ย ธ; That makes no sense at all. I started with the vowels, only to learn they run around the consonants, left right up and down. Oh, and my handwriting isn' that great after two shoulder operations and one stroke, so I doubt I can even write the crazy curves.

I may enroll in a short course just to check it out. But I won't get my hopes up. It matters not that my dumbest students have mastered the language; I have serious shortcomings doing so. Meanwhile, I will continue living here, without even hoping to ever read the road signs.

Anyway, thanks for the comments.

[PeaceBlondie]

I went back to Thai For Beginners, by Benjawan Poomsan Becker, which I have glanced at for four years now. Highly recommended as the easiest beginner book, it boggles my mind. I have had attention deficit disorder since age 17 (with narcolepsy), and by determination mastered 5.5 years of university (much of it in night school), the complexities of US income tax, Spanish, a couple of careers, etc. I thought I could bite off little nibbles of Thai, starting with the letters. You have got to be kidding! ห ส ำ ห ร น ย ; That makes no sense at all. I started with the vowels, only to learn they run around the consonants, left right up and down. Oh, and my handwriting isn' that great after two shoulder operations and one stroke, so I doubt I can even write the crazy curves.

I may enroll in a short course just to check it out. But I won't get my hopes up. It matters not that my dumbest students have mastered the language; I have serious shortcomings doing so. Meanwhile, I will continue living here, without even hoping to ever read the road signs.

Anyway, thanks for the comments.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Maybe a talking dictionary?

I bought one over a year ago ....

Most guys in Thailand acquire a long haired thai dictionary...

[Jandajoy]

Somebody mentioned earlier that the main thing is to keep cool and to be patient. IMHO that's crucial. Personally, as long as I can stay calm the whole experience can be great, amusing, humourous and entertaining for all concerned. It's a major reason for me to stay. Spending half an hour trying to work out just what the boss is going on about has provided some of the best times.

Just keep smiling and enjoy. Once the enjoyment goes it's time to follow.

[distortedlink]

Sometimes, it is the little things that drive you to distraction.

Today, I simply needed to put air into the tire of my motorcycle. I drove to my favorite station, and about five Thai people there were trying to figure out how to use both of the hoses for the high-pressure lines. As I waited my turn, I noticed that neither of the hoses was working very well. One of the Thais had to help another Thai just to put air in a motorcycle tire. I left. Today or tomorrow, I will have to go to the only place I know that has a tire machine that I know how to work.

Last week, the only ponytail holder that I had blew away. So, I went to Big C. I had to wander around among the brassieres and the ladies panties and the makeup and finally found two ponytail holders for 25 baht. There was no way that I could say to a sales clerk, "where are the ponytail holders?"

This sort of thing happens to me once or twice every week. I don't have much interaction with Thai people, but this is the country where I am supposed to live and survive. Another example: my partner went out to buy some medicine for me, which was Felopadin. He got the spelling wrong, and he called me on the mobile phone to ask me the name of the medicine. I spelled Phillapadinn about nine times, including once or twice when I spelled it wrong. In fact, filapaden is spelled two different ways on the Thai prescription. And my partner has been listening to my speech for almost 5 years. That means when I speak to a Thai person in this country, and speak in my own native English language, they don't understand me. I don't say Coke with the right vowel tone. In almost 5 years I have never pronounced cow pack guy correctly. I don't know if it's gone all G. K. or maybe it is not that guy or that guy. Pardon me but my voice recognition system does not have the slightest idea what I am saying. I suspect Thai people are the same way.

Should I just give up trying to communicate in this wonderful Kingdom? Should I just go back to Mexico where I know how to pronounce the phonemes and the people have a fairly good idea what in the Bostock I said? But please, if you are going to give me advice, probably you don't want to suggest that I'd learn to speak Thai. Thank you

It all depends on each individuals situation here.

My Thai is extremely limited, but I try to know the basics, such as asking for things, how much, do you go to, etc, etc and most often fairlly succesful.

But when I do sometimes find myself having difficulties communicating in a store or for any service I may require, I just take out my mobile phone, either contact my wife or daughter, then put them on to the person explaining what I want, easy, peasy.

[intumult]

Perhaps I should have worded it differently. Personally, life was very difficult for me before I knew how to speak Thai. And it was a painful learning process.

as i said a personal view, but not necessarily applicable to others. my wife and me have spent holidays in Thailand for more than a quarter century. we live here now for more than three years. the thai my wife speaks is limited to "sawasdee khra". i know a dozen polite sentences and the numbers plus a dozen obscene words (which i picked up in ancient times when i visited Thailand as a bachelor ) but we are getting along fine.

you are Thai and want to work for us but you don't speak some basic english, french, german, spanish or italian? sorry, no can do! you are a contractor but you don't understand some basic german, english, spanish, italian or french concerning the work i would like to have done? sorry, no can do! as simple as that

Learned a few myself. Often they get a laugh as (when women do not shower) talking of smelly pussy etc., but I can imagine them getting people into deep Kee (sh*t) when used.

[BigSnake]

No I don't think so this is the land of smiles and most people, farangs and locals do just that and press on.

[PeaceBlondie]

The level of friendliness will not drive this farang out of this kingdom. If I cannot earn smiles, I can buy them.

[Bryan in Isaan]

I didn't read all six pages of the thread but don't people draw pictures when they are shopping? I don't recall having much of a problem living in a small Isaan town and going after tools, building supplies, car parts, etc. I can't imagine using words to shop for a "ponytail holder" even here in the states with everyone speaking English. It would probably be called something different at every store I would go to.

Having said that, it did drive me crazy not being able to socialize and talk about abstract things. I am back in the states now, practicing reading Thai every spare hour I can get. I hope to go back someday and be able to have an adult conversation in Thai.

Bryan

[Richard W]

I thought I could bite off little nibbles of Thai, starting with the letters. You have got to be kidding! ห ส ำ ห ร น ย ; That makes no sense at all. I started with the vowels, only to learn they run around the consonants, left right up and down. Oh, and my handwriting isn' that great after two shoulder operations and one stroke, so I doubt I can even write the crazy curves.

You may find the thread Why are Thai Letters So Hard to Read? useful. You don't have to write the Thai consonants ornately.

If you were expecting the consonants to resemble corresponding Roman letters, no luck I'm afraid. They were massively different two thousands year ago, and they haven't got any closer. Lo ling (ล) feels like a lambda (λ), bo bai mai (บ) is an upside-down pi (Π), ho hip looks like aitch (H) or even better Cyrillic i (и) (both of which come from Greek eta (Η)) and that's about it. (Does it help to think of no nu (น) as an upside down en (n)? The loop on the left is optional.) You may get some milage out of eight of the letters being systematic modifications of others, either by adding a dent (ฃ ฅ ซ ฏ ต from ข ค ช ฎ ด) or continuing upwards from top right (ป ฝ ฟ from บ ผ พ), though the first two of these are obsolete and one is rare. (I don't count ฑ as a modification of ท.)

[JetsetBkk]

I think PB just has to put some work in and start at the beginning - try reading the labels on your everyday groceries. "Lay" crisps is good for starters!

With regards to shopping, if I need a specific item that I know will be hard to find, I take a picture of it on my camera and show it to sales person. If I don't have one of the things already, I'll find a picture on the internet and photograph my PC screen.

I found this approach particularly useful in hardware shops. Instead of saying "Have you got one of those thingummyjigs that connects the doodah to the whatsit", I show them a picture.

[NaiGreg]

I believe "tee(F)-mut(H)-pom®" is the correct term (thing-for-bind-the-hair) My daughter has quite a few.

-NG

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks as always, but the hairbob was a month ago, and I have now stocked up enough ponytail bands to last the year. Tomorrow it could be anything, like asking directions when I do not have the address printed in Thai, and not understanding the directions. I managed to respond to a Thai waitress that yes, I wanted moong moaoieang gai (you know, chicken and mushrooms and cashews), and she even managed to understand mai prik without pointing to my crotch.

I will look for a phrase book that has the common phrases. I am still afraid that a simple request beyond "what is this?" will become the equivalent of the Mexican "do you have any testicles?"

Few have answered what I thought was the main question: can I survive from age 65 to 85 without learning Thai? I think I can, but it will be a sheltered existence, mostly among farang. There are numerous countries where this would not be so.

[twschw]

I think that in general no. A language barrier alone won't be the deciding factor in the decision to stay or leave. I think it would take alot more to make someone leave. If you are happy here then the language problem shouldn't be that big a deal. If you are unhappy here then I could see where it could be the final straw.

[billd766]

Thanks as always, but the hairbob was a month ago, and I have now stocked up enough ponytail bands to last the year. Tomorrow it could be anything, like asking directions when I do not have the address printed in Thai, and not understanding the directions. I managed to respond to a Thai waitress that yes, I wanted moong moaoieang gai (you know, chicken and mushrooms and cashews), and she even managed to understand mai prik without pointing to my crotch.

I will look for a phrase book that has the common phrases. I am still afraid that a simple request beyond "what is this?" will become the equivalent of the Mexican "do you have any testicles?"

Few have answered what I thought was the main question: can I survive from age 65 to 85 without learning Thai? I think I can, but it will be a sheltered existence, mostly among farang. There are numerous countries where this would not be so.

Hi PB

If you can get the books on learning Thai by Benjawan Poomsan Becker they have a good vocabulary section in every chapter and I am slowly learning Thai through them. Also I have been making an idiots guide to Thai bits and pieces which I have attached.

You could print it out and perhaps laminate it as a quick reference guide and update it for yourself as you go.

I am 63 and living out in the boonies but luckily some people understand my amngled Thai and I can understand their mangled English but I can't hold or listen to a conversation unless Thais speak very slowly and repeat it a lot, howevr I do try.

idiots_guide_to_Thai_stuff.xls

[PeaceBlondie]

billd, thanks, but no thanks. My comments about Khun Benjawan's beginner book is above, #129. It makes no sense to me, not even the dialog. Your nice little idiots guide only has one thing I could use, and that is in the wrong dialect for here (I say benzene, gow nung, dem tank).

All right, since some posters may disagree, I will give example from book. You call Julie on the phone, and say Hello. But Benjawan says phonetically that hello is really hanloo. Julie, of course, must be pronounced Thai style. Then you have to consider whether Julie is your girlfriend or the provincial governor. And, knowing Julie, she will not follow Benjawan's script. It will not work.

I will spend a couple more years trying to adjust without learning the language.

[t.s]

Dunspero

If you cannot understand english because of your hearing loss, how in the h-ell are you suppose to understand Thai. You obviously don't comprehend the problem! What good would it do to learn to speak it if you could not understand the response?

so we have established that pb is deaf and cant understand english either? i suspect that he wont be any happier in mexico.

Edited March 3, 2008 by t.s

[Neeranam]

I think YOUR NATIONALITY could be part of the reason.

The reason Americans do not learn to communicate in other languages is two-fold. One is ego, pure and simple. A comedian once said when he goes to another country he says,"What are all these foreigners doing here?" even if it's their country. I used to work with one of the most narrow minded individuals I have ever met. He actually believed that the Unites States was bigger than China.

So the number one reason we Americans do not learn to communicate in other languages is ego, pure and simple.

The second reason is that, quite frankly, we don't have to. And few people will do something that they really don't have to do, much less something that is inconvenient.

Of the two, ego is probably the most incriminating. As the world's super power and leader of the free world, it's easy for Americans to reason, "Hey, you learn MY language, and maybe we'll talk."

Even when we are exposed to other cultures, we expect, even demand special treatment. At Mexican or Chinese restaurants, the menus have pictures for us to point at. When we go to the avant-garde foreign movie house, the film has subtitles running across the bottom. And telemarketers give us the first option, asking us to "press one for English."

It's also a matter of respect. I took a friend to one of my favorite Mexican restaurants. She proceeded to order a beef fajita plate, but wanted to substitute chicken for the beef. In broken English, the waitress asked if my friend would just rather have the chicken plate. My friend said that she knew what she wanted and that "they" just didn't want to do it because of her race.

I explained to her that they were trying to help her, by suggesting the plate she really wanted. My friend said that she didn't want the chicken plate, but the beef plate with chicken instead. Finally after being very embarrassed at my favorite restaurant, I asked my friend why it had to be this way.

She said, "Because that's the way I want it."

And truth be told, that's why we Americans refuse to communicate in other languages: because that's the way we want it.

Source http://www.helium.com/tm/777589/reason-ame...arn-communicate

[percy2]

I will look for a phrase book that has the common phrases. I am still afraid that a simple request beyond "what is this?" will become the equivalent of the Mexican "do you have any testicles?"

I understand you are a teacher.

Do you have formal lessons with your students or do you just give them books to read while you attend?

Few have answered what I thought was the main question: can I survive from age 65 to 85 without learning Thai? I think I can, but it will be a sheltered existence, mostly among farang. There are numerous countries where this would not be so.

I think we have to draw one of two conclusions from your ongoing questioning.

It will either drive you mad and you should leave.

Or you are a drama queen making you a troll and we have all sufficiently fed you.

Cheers

[Jingthing]

I think YOUR NATIONALITY could be part of the reason.

I resemble that remark.

A more interesting question is what would you do if you moved to Thailand and you spoke neither English or Thai. A case could be made it would be a better investment of your time to learn ... ENGLISH.

American English is now indeed the dominant world language of our day. I wish I could say the same thing about the American DOLLAR.

Also, when you add American nationality with older age, well ... you're most likely looking at an English only speaker.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Jingthing

[madjbs]

I think YOUR NATIONALITY could be part of the reason.

I resemble that remark.

You sure do

[billd766]

billd, thanks, but no thanks. My comments about Khun Benjawan's beginner book is above, #129. It makes no sense to me, not even the dialog. Your nice little idiots guide only has one thing I could use, and that is in the wrong dialect for here (I say benzene, gow nung, dem tank).

All right, since some posters may disagree, I will give example from book. You call Julie on the phone, and say Hello. But Benjawan says phonetically that hello is really hanloo. Julie, of course, must be pronounced Thai style. Then you have to consider whether Julie is your girlfriend or the provincial governor. And, knowing Julie, she will not follow Benjawan's script. It will not work.

I will spend a couple more years trying to adjust without learning the language.

PB

I quite understand about Khun Benjawans book as my wife always answers the phone with Hallo who ever calls and then adjusts her response to the caller.

Most times I get calls or answer her phone the caller rarely identfies itself though I can distinguish between males and females.

The books however do give me a fighting chance if both of us know what the conversation is about and we both speak slowly.

The language barrier will never drive me out of the country though at times it doers drive me a little crazy.

[koheesti]

But please, if you are going to give me advice, probably you don't want to suggest that I'd learn to speak Thai. Thank you

Do you have a digital camera with a good-sized screen? I use mine for a lot more than just taking touristy pictures. For one, when I've had a leaky pipe or a broken door handle or even a hornet nest on my balcony, I took a photo and showed it to my landlord. Not one word of Thai or English needed.

Edited March 4, 2008 by koheesti

[sbk]

I think YOUR NATIONALITY could be part of the reason.

I resemble that remark.

You sure do

Thats funny, I am also American and am pretty fluent in Thai, before I moved here I was passable in Mandarin and studied French for 6 years. So I guess it just depends doesn't it? Haven't met that many British who can speak more than English either, so there you go.

Some people just don't have a language ability. I cannot do mathematics to save my life. Doesn't make me stupid, just means I use a calculator.