People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[sriracha john]

It's on... it's off... it's on... it's off... ... and now, it's on... :D :D

PAD-Counter Rally to Be Postponed till Next Friday

The pro-People Power Party group's planned rally to counter today’s anti-government movement of the People’s Alliance for Democracy has been cancelled and postponed till next Friday to prevent possible confrontations between the two opposing groups.

People Power Party MP Pracha Prasopdee of Samut Prakan yesterday reported that the planned rally by the pro-government Public Group for the Protection of Democracy was cancelled to prevent possible clashes between rival rally-goers.

Last week, Pracha, leader of the newly established pro-People Power Party PGPD, has announced the group’s plan to hold weekly meetings to counter the gatherings organized by the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy.

The weekly meetings were expected to be held every Friday at venues near those of the PAD.

Pracha earlier claimed that the first weekly gathering to counter the PAD would begin today at the Royal Hotel on Rajchadamnoen Road, as the PAD would also be staging its first rally on the same day at Thammasat University, on the opposite side of Sanam Luang.

The PGPD leader has turned the table amidst fears of possible confrontations between the two rival groups and decided to call off the rally.

However, Pracha said such move does not mean that his group is backing down on its intended objectives. He added that the planned venue at the Royal Hotel could not accommodate more than 10,000 rally-goers at one time.

Furthermore, Pracha claimed that his group has postponed the meeting till next Friday, changing the venue to Lumpini Park, which is much larger than the Royal Hotel and could accommodate rally-goers by the thousands.

Pracha added that his group’s cause was expected to gain support from several leading organizations and academics.

- Thailand Outlook (today)

Edited March 28, 2008 by Jai Dee
multiple nested quotes deleted for better readability

[ando]

You got to ask yourself, -- is this really the way the Thai people want their country to be run? Multiple previous elections have overwhelmingly shown what the people want.

Ando, do you really mean to say, that the Thai people deliberately voted for a government which would suppress media-freedom in such a blatant way ? I have to disagree.

I suggest you read the WHOLE paragraph again and you might understand what I mean.

Here it is again for your info.

"You got to ask yourself, -- is this really the way the Thai people want their country to be run? Multiple previous elections have overwhelmingly shown what the people want. They want a democratically elected government elected by the people, not some military junta or some second ranking party slipped in through the back door by skillful use of laws imposed by an unelected military junta with biased ulterior political motives."

[rixalex]

Sure, Thailand is a corrupt country and Thai politics is corrupt as well. But do we go away from the steps towards true democracy and let an unelected military junta who take control by force of arms make the rules, or do we (they) go down the road of democracy where elected governments can be held to account for their actions?

Elected governments held account? You must be having a laugh!

Compare abuses under the military junta with those under "democratically" elected governments and there's one clear winner.

[Tony Clifton]

The event seems to be going well. Packed house.

Many are still sending in SMS saying they can't watch the broadcast, completely cut off or is being interfered with.

Anti-PAD protesters have gathered across the street with banners and loudspeaker, the food vendors must be happy. They are getting a little rowdy though, pointing fingers and shouting at police. Hired thugs with the political IQ of a shoe, as usual, ready to split their country over a 500 baht note.

[Colonel_Mustard]

political IQ of a shoe, as usual, ready to split their country

Does seem a fairly good description of PAD. Thanks.

[sriracha john]

About 5,000 people attend PAD rally

About 5,000 attended a rally held by the People's Alliance for Democracy at Thammasat University Friday evening.

At 6 pm, about 4,000 people were inside the auditorium while another 1,000 were outside monitoring the event from a giant projector screen and several TV monitors.

- The Nation (today)

============================================

Interesting to watch the diversity of those in attendance during the live coverage.

The auditorium was bursting at the seams with people. A resounding success.... despite those that tried to spoil things.....

Anti-PAD demonstrators vow to enter Thammasat

Police closed a main entrance to Thammasat University after a group of protesters vowed to enter the university's compound to observe the rally of the People's Alliance for Democracy.

At 7 pm, the anti-PAD group, which rallied at Sanam Luang across the street from Thammasat, said it would enter the university at 8 pm to watch a satirical play.

Police closed the gate of the university near the auditorium and checked and searched everyone who wanted to go inside.

- The Nation (today)

Edited March 28, 2008 by sriracha john

[Tony Clifton]

The event seems to be going well. Packed house.

Many are still sending in SMS saying they can't watch the broadcast, completely cut off or is being interfered with.

Anti-PAD protesters have gathered across the street with banners and loudspeaker, the food vendors must be happy. They are getting a little rowdy though, pointing fingers and shouting at police. Hired thugs with the political IQ of a shoe, as usual, ready to split their country over a 500 baht note.

political IQ of a shoe, as usual, ready to split their country

Does seem a fairly good description of PAD. Thanks.

Sorry to deceive you but I clearly wrote ANTI-PAD. Nice try but always remember, second comes after first.

If you had even bothered watching a single minute of tonight's event apart from what will be seen on the news, you could have seen about a dozen leading university professors on stage at Thamassat, beat's an entire PPP cabinet single handedly, but not on the criminal side of things, PPP are champs.

Let me guess, you are awestruck by the PPP government's amazing performance and exemplary behavior?

[Colonel_Mustard]

Let me guess, you are awestruck by the PPP government's amazing performance and exemplary behavior?

Nope. There again they haven't really had much time in office yet.

To be honest, I'm not really a fan of any of the political parties in Thailand. I doubt any really have the desire to make the changes necessary to move the country forward and as I can't vote anyway, there doesn't seem much point in getting too worked up about which one of them is currently governing the country.

However, while not being pro PPP, or any other party, I am anti PAD.

[Plus]

You can't be anti- everything.

Eventually your pro-stand will shine through, and it won't be pleasant.

In a DailyXpess article they mention that anti-Pad protesters jeered everyone entering Thammasat and even threw rocks and bottles across the road, until police interevened.

[sriracha john]

The PGPD continues the proud TRT/PPP/ADD/DAD/UDDT tradition...

Meanwhile those who joined the pro-government demonstration at the open ground just across from the university compound, throwing rocks and bottles across the street.

Bangkok Post

[Samuian]

........edit....

However, while not being pro PPP, or any other party, I am anti PAD.

So you neither really liberal, nor neutral... ahhhh well, they only want to change/correct the constitution, again and again, and again.... and yes, they (PPP) want ONLY the best for their Country (Company)... Yes and it would be the right move to bring the country forward...

[younghusband]

........edit....

However, while not being pro PPP, or any other party, I am anti PAD.

So you neither really liberal, nor neutral... ahhhh well, they only want to change/correct the constitution, again and again, and again.... and yes, they (PPP) want ONLY the best for their Country (Company)... Yes and it would be the right move to bring the country forward...

Erm, didn't the constitution emerge from a government installed by a military coup? Doesn't that fact inevitably taint it? Isn't the reality that the constitution was imposed to preserve military and other vested interests, and to guard against overpowerful politicians (especially those that call aforesaid vested interests into question).Isn't it infinitely preferable to have a constitution that emerges from a government fairly elected by the people of Thailand? Didn't Abhisit's Democrats and other decent people say that the current unsatisfactory constitution needed to be amended? Doesn't the PAD have a very fair point about the need to have checks and balances? Isn't there a case for the old -but rather good- 1997 constitution to be reimposed with amendments freely discussed and carefully considered? Aren't the people on the streets now (PAD obsessives and Thaksin ruffians) creepy and unrepresentative?Isn't the prospect of expats debating all this on basically a forum for visa runners somewhat Kafkaesque?Meanwhile the world turns....

[Plus]

Erm, didn't the constitution emerge from a government installed by a military coup? Doesn't that fact inevitably taint it?

No, the consitution wasn't drafted by the military, it can be argued that NLA was more representative of the people than the current Parlament, even though it wasn't elected.

.. a constitution that emerges from a government fairly elected by the people of Thailand?

You are just taking a piss, aren't you? If it was fairly elected they wouldn't move to amend the constitution to legitimise their fraud.

Didn't Abhisit's Democrats and other decent people say that the current unsatisfactory constitution needed to be amended?

Don't try to piggyback disgraceful attempts to change the rules post factum on Democrat's pre-election less-than-urgent policy to review certain parts of the Constitution, parts that are not even under consideration at this point.

Doesn't the PAD have a very fair point about the need to have checks and balances? Isn't there a case for the old -but rather good- 1997 constitution to be reimposed with amendments freely discussed and carefully considered?

You must be aware that no one, not the government, not PPP, not the Senate, are proposing any kind of free discussion or careful consideration, and there will be no people's input at any stage of the process.

Surely you are arguing just for the sake of it.

Aren't the people on the streets now (PAD obsessives and Thaksin ruffians) creepy and unrepresentative?

Unrepresentative of what?

It was only the first meeting, if (or rather when), rallies start to attract tens of thousands, would you still call it unrepresentative?

We are at the beginning of the long and drawn out political confrontation, or you could say round two. This time Thaksin is not in the focus though, PAD demands are not personality driven this time around.

[younghusband]

Erm, didn't the constitution emerge from a government installed by a military coup? Doesn't that fact inevitably taint it?

No, the consitution wasn't drafted by the military, it can be argued that NLA was more representative of the people than the current Parlament, even though it wasn't elected.

.. a constitution that emerges from a government fairly elected by the people of Thailand?

You are just taking a piss, aren't you? If it was fairly elected they wouldn't move to amend the constitution to legitimise their fraud.

Didn't Abhisit's Democrats and other decent people say that the current unsatisfactory constitution needed to be amended?

Don't try to piggyback disgraceful attempts to change the rules post factum on Democrat's pre-election less-than-urgent policy to review certain parts of the Constitution, parts that are not even under consideration at this point.

Doesn't the PAD have a very fair point about the need to have checks and balances? Isn't there a case for the old -but rather good- 1997 constitution to be reimposed with amendments freely discussed and carefully considered?

You must be aware that no one, not the government, not PPP, not the Senate, are proposing any kind of free discussion or careful consideration, and there will be no people's input at any stage of the process.

Surely you are arguing just for the sake of it.

Aren't the people on the streets now (PAD obsessives and Thaksin ruffians) creepy and unrepresentative?

Unrepresentative of what?

It was only the first meeting, if (or rather when), rallies start to attract tens of thousands, would you still call it unrepresentative?

We are at the beginning of the long and drawn out political confrontation, or you could say round two. This time Thaksin is not in the focus though, PAD demands are not personality driven this time around.

I posed a series of questions, not really expecting a response.You have given the matter some thought so deserve the courtesy of a rejoinder.

1.Like it or not there is no doubt the current constitution was ushered in by the junta.Frankly the matter's not really up for discussion.However since you apparently believe the NLA is more representative of the people than the current government, I expect you will have some contrarian view.Anyway most unbiased observers wouldn't dispute my point, noting as I do, that my comments say nothing one way or the other about the quality of the NLA or the merits of the current constitution.

2.Whatever the weaknesses of the current government, the basic principle remains that a constitution should have the support of the Thai people.A junta which seized power by force has very limited moral authority, and hence the constitution it spawned is tainted.Spare us the lecture on how the junta didn't draft the document.Even the hard line supporters of the coup privately acknowledge the manipulation of the process.

3.I thought my agreement on the need for checks and balances might have some kind of consensus, specifically to prevent some over reaching politician like Thaksin from re-emerging.I'm well aware of the current constraints.I was pointing out that for a constitution to "stick", some kind of public debate and endorsement is needed.The 1997 constitution had this authority.The curent constitution doesn't.Again not very controversial except in one or two fevered brows.

4.The gathering yesterday in my view wasn't very edifying and most Thais I know simply shrug their shoulders at both sides.The opposition should keep tabs on the Samak government.There simply isn't a groundswell of public opinion yet for street protests or counter protests.I find both sides creepy.

5.If hundreds of thousands (not tens of thousands) take to the streets of course we must sit up and take notice.My fear is then the Bangkok elite and their hangers on (the Thai equivalent of Lenin's "useful fools") will reap the whirlwind.Is that what people like you want? Isn't it better to encourage like Abhisit do their job and build popular policies for the Thai people?

[Colonel_Mustard]

You can't be anti- everything.

Eventually your pro-stand will shine through, and it won't be pleasant.

I'm not anti everything (just PAD). Just not really pro anything either. There's no political party out there to my mind that is deserving of support.

Wouldn't mind Thaksin getting his money back though so he can spend it on my football team.

[Tony Clifton]

You can't be anti- everything.

Eventually your pro-stand will shine through, and it won't be pleasant.

I'm not anti everything (just PAD). Just not really pro anything either. There's no political party out there to my mind that is deserving of support.

Wouldn't mind Thaksin getting his money back though so he can spend it on my football team.

Dirty blood stained money that is.

You don't mind?

[younghusband]

Dirty blood stained money that is.

You don't mind?

Care to explain how his money is bloodstained?

[Plus]

1...my comments say nothing one way or the other about the quality of the NLA or the merits of the current constitution.

You might have noticed that I talk about merits rather than origins.

2.Whatever the weaknesses of the current government, the basic principle remains that a constitution should have the support of the Thai people.A junta which seized power...

Unlike proposed amendments the constution was voted in by all Thais. Now politicians scramble to change the law to save their asses, without any concern for the public, and you argue that it's more democratic. Where is logic in that?

3...The 1997 constitution had this authority.The curent constitution doesn't.

1997 edition is history, are you now one of those idealists who demanded its restoration and refused to accept 2006 version?

4....most Thais I know simply shrug their shoulders at both sides.

I seriosly doubt that. They might feel it's not the right time yet, but everybody knows that already, don't we? When this thread started PAD's agenda had only police transfers on it. Now PPP started unilateral consitution rewrite.

It's snawballing, resentment will inevitably grow.

5... Isn't it better to encourage like Abhisit do their job and build popular policies for the Thai people?

If you ask me - no, Democrats should try to really change the country, not just follow the TRT's trend for the sake of getting into the government. Current PAD protest, if you haven't noticed yet, has nothing to do with government's overall legitimacy, Suriyasai has specifically stressed this point. Like in 2006, it's about the rule of law - let the courts decide parties fate, without government's interference.

[Tony Clifton]

Dirty blood stained money that is.

You don't mind?

Care to explain how his money is bloodstained?

Yes, but not to you, because you already know how his money is bloodstained.

[younghusband]

Dirty blood stained money that is.

You don't mind?

Care to explain how his money is bloodstained?

Yes, but not to you, because you already know how his money is bloodstained.

Actually I have genuinely no idea.One could argue his reputation is bloodstained because of his leadership in the drugs war or,less convincingly,because he was at least indirectly responsible for some abuses in the South such as Tak Bai.But I am totally at a loss why you think his money was bloodstained.I would be interested to hear an explanation.

[Colonel_Mustard]

You can't be anti- everything.

Eventually your pro-stand will shine through, and it won't be pleasant.

I'm not anti everything (just PAD). Just not really pro anything either. There's no political party out there to my mind that is deserving of support.

Wouldn't mind Thaksin getting his money back though so he can spend it on my football team.

Dirty blood stained money that is.

You don't mind?

Grasping at straws there old chap. Mind you after today's shameful performance and result it's about time for a war against City players.

[jumnien]

It's ironic that that People Against Democracy (PAD) supporters would argue that Thaksin is somehow blood-stained but that the Thai Army is somehow not blood-stained. Heavy-duty blinders, I guess.

[sriracha john]

Despite Chalerm, Jakob the Liar, and Noppadope's totally unwarrranted warnings to PAD to protest peacefully, it's very unsurprising that it is their opponents that need to controlled...

Followers lodge police complaint, saying pro-Thaksin group attacked them after the PAD rally at Thammasat

Followers of the Santi Asoke Buddhist sect have lodged a complaint with police yesterday against a pro-Thaksin group which they say physically assaulted them after the PAD gathering at Thammasat University on Friday. Panomtam Nawabunniyom, who took 10 Santi Asoke members to lodge the complaint with Chana Songkram police, said unidentified men threw stones, water bottles and urine-filled containers at her group as they were leaving the Sanam Luang ground by coach in front of the university's campus about midnight. The attack happened as the vehicle was heading towards the road. "About 50 people suddenly emerged from behind tamarind trees and pelted us with stones, bottles and urine," said Nuengput Wimutinan, 66, who was in the bus which had only the elderly, women and children on board. Up to eight people were injured. One person suffered a chin wound and was taken to hospital. Thousands of PAD supporters turned up at the university auditorium to listen to speeches against the government.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/30Mar2008_news10.php

Edited March 30, 2008 by sriracha john

[Plus]

Urine?

No wonder our resident "PAD watch" wants to stay clear from that group and concentrate on bashing nuns for being undemocratic instead.

From another angle, it is really starting to look like a replay of 1976. Euphoria of 1973 is largely gone, the ousted dictators are coming back in force, protesters are shut inside Thammasat, violent mobs are lusting for their blood outside. The only difference that in '76 Samak and Co rallied people to protect the monarchy (and were clearly mistaken), this time they rally for "democracy". Any excuse will do.

>>>>

Maybe our PAD haters need professional help to let go of their "junta is out to get us all" syndrom, it really interferes with their judgement now.

[Plus]

That's because statesponsored rally has been cancelled, they were expecting fifteen thousand in their own estimate.

And make no mistake, they'll be back, even Samak won't be able to stop them like he did this time, he has little control over his own party or government.

[ando]

That's because statesponsored rally has been cancelled, they were expecting fifteen thousand in their own estimate.

And make no mistake, they'll be back, even Samak won't be able to stop them like he did this time, he has little control over his own party or government.

The group organized by the Samut Prakan MP, "Maha Prachachon" (or something like this), will be back. But that is supposed to be very organized unlike these yokels. The last thing the government wants is a violent confrontation with the PAD protesters, and that is why the Royal Hotel rally was cancelled. A violent attack on the PAD (not just a few bottles, urin bags and punches) would only serve the PAD, and would destroy the government.

And lets first wait and see how these "Maha Prachachon" guys behave, how many they are in reality, before making any judgement.

1976 the right wing militias (of which Samak was only one organizer, Chamlong Srimuang - now PAD - was involved as well , and so were many others ) had not just support from the different armed forces, but also from burocracy, palace, etc.

Todays pro government organized protesters are not trained militias, and neither do they have support from the armed forces, palace or anyone else other than some people of the weak coalition government.

The presently existing armed militias are mostly not under government control though, but are controlled by army and palace.

The only comparison you can make to 1976 is that the era preceeding was a time marked by political turmoil. As is this era beginning to be. Other than that there is very little comparison.

It seems quite unique to me in a so called democracy that elected government has do public battle NOT with the elected opposition, but with an extremely small minority of unelected protesters, with the not so hidden agenda of inciting a(nother) military coup. Where are the Democrats in all of this? Hardly a peep out of them except for the occasional meek policy statement. The Democrats stand to be the ultimate beneficiaries if things turn to chaos once again.

Are the Democrats intent on seeking government by default rather than winning the support of the voters?

[Plus]

Todays pro government organized protesters are not trained militias, and neither do they have support from the armed forces, palace or anyone else other than some people of the weak coalition government.

It doesn't matter as long as they get away with impunity. Police doesn't stop them, army isn't there, they are pretty much free to do whatever they want.

And they are not backed by "some people of the weak coalition government", they are serving the needs of very ambitious exTRT politicians, and even if Thaksin himself is not in the picture, he is their figurehead, just like the monarchy was on right wing militias banners thirty years ago. They are readying for a full out battle to get rid of pesky PAD or any kind of opposition for good, nothing short of total control of the country would satisfy them (and that exactly what happened after 1976 - see the similarities?).

Ah, yes, current "yokels" don't receive government sponsored military training to throw rocks and bottle and urine bags. That's a striking difference.

[Plus]

It seems quite unique to me in a so called democracy that elected government has do public battle NOT with the elected opposition, but with an extremely small minority of ..

What is so unique about government being responsible before its own citizens?

What kind of democracy are you trying to promote here? Singaporean style?

[Plus]

police has stopped these yokels. Look at the footage - police was present on friday, blocking the hotheads from both camps from crossing over and battling things out, even the head of Bangkok metropolitan police was there and personally has talked with both sides. It is only due to the excellent police work that the situation on friday did not escalate into large clashes. A few bottles and urin bags is a minor incident - don't blow it up into something that simply did not happen.

Now that is rubbish.

You make it sound like PAD nuns were as eager to start fighting as the "yokels". Police, btw, didn't stop them and couldn't identify them, conviniently.

And you have to take some lessons in civility and manners if you think throwing bottles and rocks and URINE BAGS is a minor incindent.

You are really barking up the wrong tree.

[A_Traveller]

Looks like the Michael Moorcock fan is back...

Regards