Need Help - Water Pump Size

[grumpy_old_retired]

Need help in determining the correct water pump size:

1. bring water from bottom of well to sand filter 2 meters from well (constant water level - bottom to top is 5 meters)

2. size water pump needed to deliver water from storage tanks to house (water pump location will be 14 meters from house with 1" distribution pipe) (2 baths, clothes washer and kitchen)

3. and, my actual water storage capacity

Prefer Mitsubishi or Fujika water pump.

My math is probably all "wet" but my estimates are as follows:

Well = 1418 Liter (13 m deep by .90 m cir around) (5 m water level)

Storage Tanks = 2042 Liters (2 tanks = Each 1.20 m cir around x 2.5 m high)

Any help is appreciated.

[chownah]

You need to tell us how you will be using the water....will it be strictly household use?...or will you be doing alot of garden and yard watering?...if you will be watering a large garden or yard area will you be wanting to do that with large sized rotating impulse sprinklers?...drip irrigation?....what kind of shower do you like...a real large volume of water but at low pressure? or a really large volume of water at high pressure? or just the run of the mill shower? or low flow low pressure shower to save on water and electricity or for whatever reason? And finally how much will you be drinking (hahahahhahha).

Chownah

[grumpy_old_retired]

You need to tell us how you will be using the water....will it be strictly household use?...or will you be doing alot of garden and yard watering?...if you will be watering a large garden or yard area will you be wanting to do that with large sized rotating impulse sprinklers?...drip irrigation?....what kind of shower do you like...a real large volume of water but at low pressure? or a really large volume of water at high pressure? or just the run of the mill shower? or low flow low pressure shower to save on water and electricity or for whatever reason? And finally how much will you be drinking (hahahahhahha).

Chownah

Nothing is simple! Seems I left out a lot!

The water in the 2 storage tanks are for household use. Not for drinking although I have been considering a filtering system for the house. Showers - well, I take one shower a day for about 10 minutes, the wife and child usually 30 minute (!) showers. Pressure is not important as I plan to use 3/4" fixtures off the 1" supply pipe. I "think" I should have sufficient pressure with this setup. Yes, I know that some fixtures will have to be 1/2" but a 1/2" pipe off the 3/4" should suffice.

Water from well will be used for gardening. Do not expect a large garden plot! Recycle time for the water well, i.e. returning to the 5 meter level is about 8 hours.

Hope this will be suffiecient. And thanks again.

[allexx]

You need to tell us how you will be using the water....will it be strictly household use?...or will you be doing alot of garden and yard watering?...if you will be watering a large garden or yard area will you be wanting to do that with large sized rotating impulse sprinklers?...drip irrigation?....what kind of shower do you like...a real large volume of water but at low pressure? or a really large volume of water at high pressure? or just the run of the mill shower? or low flow low pressure shower to save on water and electricity or for whatever reason? And finally how much will you be drinking (hahahahhahha).

Chownah

Nothing is simple! Seems I left out a lot!

The water in the 2 storage tanks are for household use. Not for drinking although I have been considering a filtering system for the house. Showers - well, I take one shower a day for about 10 minutes, the wife and child usually 30 minute (!) showers. Pressure is not important as I plan to use 3/4" fixtures off the 1" supply pipe. I "think" I should have sufficient pressure with this setup. Yes, I know that some fixtures will have to be 1/2" but a 1/2" pipe off the 3/4" should suffice.

Water from well will be used for gardening. Do not expect a large garden plot! Recycle time for the water well, i.e. returning to the 5 meter level is about 8 hours.

Hope this will be suffiecient. And thanks again.

Get rid of those ugly storage tanks and make a big one underground. Plant some nice flowers instead.

Buy a good quality sub.pump,mine cost 9500 Baht, made in Italy, to pump the water from the well to the big tank.

Buy a Mitsubishi,250 watt, pump to supply the house.

If the well water is not of good quality go for a filter.

I had this system now for 18 yrs and is still up and running.

[johnnymoretti]

Your architect has a little to be disired. But at least its working!

[chownah]

You need to tell us how you will be using the water....will it be strictly household use?...or will you be doing alot of garden and yard watering?...if you will be watering a large garden or yard area will you be wanting to do that with large sized rotating impulse sprinklers?...drip irrigation?....what kind of shower do you like...a real large volume of water but at low pressure? or a really large volume of water at high pressure? or just the run of the mill shower? or low flow low pressure shower to save on water and electricity or for whatever reason? And finally how much will you be drinking (hahahahhahha).

Chownah

Nothing is simple! Seems I left out a lot!

The water in the 2 storage tanks are for household use. Not for drinking although I have been considering a filtering system for the house. Showers - well, I take one shower a day for about 10 minutes, the wife and child usually 30 minute (!) showers. Pressure is not important as I plan to use 3/4" fixtures off the 1" supply pipe. I "think" I should have sufficient pressure with this setup. Yes, I know that some fixtures will have to be 1/2" but a 1/2" pipe off the 3/4" should suffice.

Water from well will be used for gardening. Do not expect a large garden plot! Recycle time for the water well, i.e. returning to the 5 meter level is about 8 hours.

Hope this will be suffiecient. And thanks again.

Providing a 1inch supply pipe will not increase the pressure if the pump you buy does not create adequate pressure in the first place....some westerners want a shower of a certain force and volume...if they buy a pump which does not create enough pressure to make a shower with enough force then assuming that the supply pipe is adequate what they really need isa pump that can generate more pressure.

A very similar arguement can be made for watering the garden and lawn....people who want to use the rotating impulse sprinklers need to have a pump capable of generating enough pressure to operate the size sprinklers they intend to use...a larger supply pipe will not make up for a pump which does not generate enough pressure.

Pumps differ on their operating pressure range so it is advisable to check to be sure that the pump you get generates adequate pressure for the use you intend. The pressure available at a shower head (for instance) can also be increased by mounting the pump at a higher elevation. This is an option which few people seem to utilize but is available never the less.

So much for pressure...now on to volume. For domestic use the major issue for volume is usually that when two people want to shower at the same time (in seperate showers...not showering together you silly goose) then the volume is inadequate and also the pressure drops (oh no...here we are back at pressure again!!). Even a pump which is capable of pumping to an adequate pressure can not supply water at high volumes at that pressure....what volume CAN it supply at its rated pressure? you might ask...the answer is that it can supply its rated volume at that pressure....the bottom line here is that if your household is wanting to use more volume of water (two showers or a shower and a flushing toilet or a shower and dishwashing or shower and washing the car...etc.) then the pressure will drop and the flow will be reduced for both people using the water.....so....you want to be sure that the pump you purchase can provide enough volume so that two people can be using the water simultaneously.....at my house if someone has the hose spigot open full outside then there is inadequate flow for the shower heater to work and the water comes out very slowly and COLD....something I could have avoided by buying a higher volume pump.

So...to summarize...there are two main things you need to check to get the right size pump....pressure and volume.

Chownah

[ProThaiExpat]

Most residences in Thailand are plumbed with 1/2 inch PVC. Most pumps deliver water from a 3/4 inch outlet. So your are already causing extra pressure do to an obvious physics principle.

The problem I had was I want to make sure I had 65 PSI pressure at my outlets and so I bought a larger Mitsubishi pump. Likewise, shower users like a very strong water force.

Result, nothing but pump problems as the larger pump worked so hard to deliver the increased pressure through the small pipes that gaskets blew, pressure valves were replaced on a yearly basis and I posted extensively last year regarding my defective pump and my troubles. Much good advice. Tried it all, to no avail as the pump was just too big.

So, I finally went out and bought a smaller pump, had it installed at the pre-set pressure on the pump and no problems for a year. Yes, the pressure is less at the showers and at the sinks, but after initial bitching about the pressure, we all got used to it and peace reigns.

The pressure now is "normal", more than adequate and certainly a lot stronger than what is delivered by the municipality. Certainly for those who like needle like shower daggers of water should look at the shower head and make sure the water restricter ring is removed.

[grumpy_old_retired]

You need to tell us how you will be using the water....will it be strictly household use?...or will you be doing alot of garden and yard watering?...if you will be watering a large garden or yard area will you be wanting to do that with large sized rotating impulse sprinklers?...drip irrigation?....what kind of shower do you like...a real large volume of water but at low pressure? or a really large volume of water at high pressure? or just the run of the mill shower? or low flow low pressure shower to save on water and electricity or for whatever reason? And finally how much will you be drinking (hahahahhahha).

Chownah

Nothing is simple! Seems I left out a lot!

The water in the 2 storage tanks are for household use. Not for drinking although I have been considering a filtering system for the house. Showers - well, I take one shower a day for about 10 minutes, the wife and child usually 30 minute (!) showers. Pressure is not important as I plan to use 3/4" fixtures off the 1" supply pipe. I "think" I should have sufficient pressure with this setup. Yes, I know that some fixtures will have to be 1/2" but a 1/2" pipe off the 3/4" should suffice.

Water from well will be used for gardening. Do not expect a large garden plot! Recycle time for the water well, i.e. returning to the 5 meter level is about 8 hours.

Hope this will be suffiecient. And thanks again.

Providing a 1inch supply pipe will not increase the pressure if the pump you buy does not create adequate pressure in the first place....some westerners want a shower of a certain force and volume...if they buy a pump which does not create enough pressure to make a shower with enough force then assuming that the supply pipe is adequate what they really need isa pump that can generate more pressure.

A very similar arguement can be made for watering the garden and lawn....people who want to use the rotating impulse sprinklers need to have a pump capable of generating enough pressure to operate the size sprinklers they intend to use...a larger supply pipe will not make up for a pump which does not generate enough pressure.

Pumps differ on their operating pressure range so it is advisable to check to be sure that the pump you get generates adequate pressure for the use you intend. The pressure available at a shower head (for instance) can also be increased by mounting the pump at a higher elevation. This is an option which few people seem to utilize but is available never the less.

So much for pressure...now on to volume. For domestic use the major issue for volume is usually that when two people want to shower at the same time (in seperate showers...not showering together you silly goose) then the volume is inadequate and also the pressure drops (oh no...here we are back at pressure again!!). Even a pump which is capable of pumping to an adequate pressure can not supply water at high volumes at that pressure....what volume CAN it supply at its rated pressure? you might ask...the answer is that it can supply its rated volume at that pressure....the bottom line here is that if your household is wanting to use more volume of water (two showers or a shower and a flushing toilet or a shower and dishwashing or shower and washing the car...etc.) then the pressure will drop and the flow will be reduced for both people using the water.....so....you want to be sure that the pump you purchase can provide enough volume so that two people can be using the water simultaneously.....at my house if someone has the hose spigot open full outside then there is inadequate flow for the shower heater to work and the water comes out very slowly and COLD....something I could have avoided by buying a higher volume pump.

So...to summarize...there are two main things you need to check to get the right size pump....pressure and volume.

Chownah

"So...to summarize...there are two main things you need to check to get the right size pump....pressure and volume."

Yep, that was the purpose of my original request - What is the volume of water in storage? My math may be all off! As to pressure, How do you get pressure without a pump? The pump is what supplies pressure - Yes?

I am no genius as you can tell when it comes to water supply - that is the reason for needing help! Where do I start?

By the way, I am not tearing down 2 perfectly good tanks to put the water in another tank underground. Plan to plant additional trees in the rear.

I probably need to start planning all over again! Switch from 1" line to 3/4" line to house and 1/2" line to the fixtures? The problem, as you have pointed out is that I will probably be needing water at the same time (occasionally) to shower, wash clothes and water the garden! It was my uneducated guess that a 1" line, then 3/4 line to fixtures would be adequate. It appears that I no "nothing"! Can someone give me a reasonable plan!

Never realized that picking out a pump would be so complicated. Yes, I have the same problem with water supplied to my current rental house by the Chiangrai city water system - "at my house if someone has the hose spigot open full outside then there is inadequate flow for the shower heater to work and the water comes out very slowly and COLD"! Another reason I need to know the proper size pump to purchase.

If I still have not provided sufficient information I do not know what else to provide! I am just not knowledgeable in all the engineering required to make the right decision - the reason for help.

At least you are trying to help but what you are asking for I have no way of providing the information - I am just to dumb.

Grumpy

[grumpy_old_retired]

Stupid - Stupid ME! I did a Thaivisa "search" for water pumps and found most of the information I need.

No Longer need to reply to this ridiculous Topic. Thanks one and all.

Grumpy

[chownah]

"So...to summarize...there are two main things you need to check to get the right size pump....pressure and volume."

Yep, that was the purpose of my original request - What is the volume of water in storage? My math may be all off! As to pressure, How do you get pressure without a pump? The pump is what supplies pressure - Yes?

Just in case you should check back in.....the volume issue is not how much volume you are storing....it is how many litres per second the pump can deliver....it is the rated flow volume of the pump.

To summarize.....you need a pump that delivers enough pressure while pumping at an adequate number of litres per second.

Chownah

[lopburi3]

And keep those above ground tanks and let the sun shine on them - very green - the difference in water temp between a rainy day (always if underground) and a sunny day is amazing. As you don't drink water from the tap here warm water is always to be preferred.