Lonely Planet(and Other Guide Books).

[dantilley]

Lonely Planet books are, on the whole excellent and very thorough. They can instill paranoia on certain matters, particularly health and conservation issues - I mean who is going to go around carrying a tin tray for Phad Thai sellers to serve their food into? And I bet you get the occasional nut-case who follows the LP to the letter and will actually turn up at a street vendor with said metal dish, which would just cause bafflement all round. Similarly, if people follow the LP too closely they will be drinking water constantly at 2 minute intervals all day, go and get rabies injections if they come within 10 yards of a soi dog and expect to find squat toilets everywhere except 5 star hotels...

[Neeranam]

It says to drink drinks without ice for God's sake!

[Ulysses G.]

The first time I came to Thailand (Phuket), it took me about a month to start eating ice cream, even though everyone else seemed to be. I blame Lonely Planet!

[Johpa]

I remember reading Cumming's first edition of his Thailand book on my second trip to LOS. The first trip I used the only thing available, the Wheeler Southeast Asian guide. At the time it was pretty common to see Farangs with the yellow Lonely Planet book in one hand and the blue Bangkok map in the other hand trying to navigate the streets of the big city. Both were great reference books although once on the road and plugged into the Gringo trail, most of the pages were ultimately used for emergencies in those days before I had switched over to using right hand etiquette on a daily basis. But I have always given kudos to Wheeler's book, a bit heavy on architecture for my tastes, but a great guide book for first time travelers to Thailand.

[h90]

The problem is as soon as something gets put in lonely planet it very quickly changes as there is a huge increase in tourists that will now travel to that guest house, cave, national park etc..

I don't know from lonely planet, but I know from other books, that most don't come in for free.....

[Neeranam]

Also don't take any advice from people on Thailand web forums

Well, especially not from anonymous people.

Well spotted - my identity has been revealed

[kat]

I still have my SEA LPs with all of my notes. They are incredibly useful for finding a decent place to stay, with price ranges and expectations for transportation sorted. Very useful. The problem is that they can quickly fall out of date, and I got into a bit of trouble by using a Khao San Road, second-hand Cambodia copy when travelling alone with the pick-up-truck-mafia from Poipet to Siem Reap; ah, the memories. I have a lot of good stories to tell as a result, though.

[kat]

BTW Neeranam, your Johnny Cash avatar rocks! I think that was when he was in Folsom Prison, because he's wearing prison garb.

[sonnyJ]

What better starting point can you get when travelling to a new country?

I agree, it was very useful when I came to Thailand on holiday for the first times.

I also agree great for travellers (esp. those on a budget). I used my first couple of trips but after 25-30 trips no longer.however I would use it for visiting new areas/countries. I have used both the Cambodian and India LP and found them very helpful esp. the India one and was told by an Indian bloke that Indians use it for a guide for travelling in their own country

Agreed, LP is absolutely the best travel guide so far. I was greatly disappointed though when they changed the format in early 2000's. Some are worse some great. Still best but the quality is going down on my opinion.

[Ijustwannateach]

I once saw a really old version (not sure, mid-70s maybe) of the Japan LP guide- completely politically incorrect with detailed advice about how to "pull birds." The tone sure has changed since they've become a bit more mainstream!!!

[seonai]

How do you all compare LP with Rough Guide ?

[dumspero]

I've never used a guidebook, but isn't Joe Cummings a porn star? (Not that there's anything wrong with that)

[The Dan Sai Kid]

The guy who writes it lives in Chiang Mai and some of his recommendations leave a lot to be desired. Also, excellent places are left out.

[sonnyJ]

The guy who writes it lives in Chiang Mai and some of his recommendations leave a lot to be desired. Also, excellent places are left out.

You are right but please show me a better book.

[crowbait]

I don't know about the main guide book but the little Lonely Planet World Food - Thailand book went with me on every trip to Thailand for the first 6 years 'coz it's really good about local Thai food................I still use a couple of the recipes back home in the UK.

Tha Malasia and Indonesia World Food books are pretty good too.

[thx1138]

I used LP guides for years and prefer them to Rough guide and Let's Go (crap). I do, however, think they are biased. For example:

LP gave Pattaya a good slagging, (apart from the Adult Entertainment on offer) they stated that "Bratwurst Mit Brot" is more readily available on the streets of Pattaya than Khao Phat. They also said that eating cheaply there meant KFC or MacDonalds. What utter twaddle!!

They also say that Pattaya is a seaside resort with no "Thai ingredients" but then go on to talk about other areas (Koh samui, Koh Phang Gan, KSR) and how you can get the most scrumptious pizza, banana pancake, (substitute your own comfort food if your away from home).

Don't get me wrong, the LP guides can be helpful but can be misleading.

Their take on my own home town was a bit off the mark but then again I appreciate that the guides are aimed at visitors with possibly limited time to visit.

I remember crap T-Shirts with "In Lonely Planet We trust" or something being flogged around traveller's ghetto areas, I never bought one but nearly bought the fisherman's keks!! (Not really).

[Ulysses G.]

BTW Neeranam, your Johnny Cash avatar rocks! I think that was when he was in Folsom Prison, because he's wearing prison garb.

Johnny Cash was never in any real prisons except to do concerts. He did do a little time in county jails, but they are far less dangerous.

[ovenman]

Agreed, LP is absolutely the best travel guide so far. I was greatly disappointed though when they changed the format in early 2000's. Some are worse some great. Still best but the quality is going down on my opinion.

I thought the Lonely Planet series started to suffer overall in the late-90s when it seemed like they were pushing to have a guidebook to cover every square millimeter of the planet. I didn't care for the new format when it was introduced either and still haven't totally warmed up to it. All that said, the LP guides are still the best out there in most instances although Rough Guides may have them beat on certain titles.

[Galong]

Lonely Planet and the Lonely Planet Zombies who consider this silly book to be the Bible of travel are responsible for ruining many a formerly fine place. If it's in the Lonely Planet, it's on the way to being ruined by mass tourism, backpackers and people who don't have the talent to search for interesting places on their own. It's a lazy way to travel.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Galong

[Neeranam]

BTW Neeranam, your Johnny Cash avatar rocks! I think that was when he was in Folsom Prison, because he's wearing prison garb.

Johnny Cash was never in any real prisons except to do concerts. He did do a little time in county jails, but they are far less dangerous.

That photo(avatar) was voted 'best rock n roll photo ever' - it says a lot.

I suppose there are two kinds of traveller - the follower and the leader.

I prefer to be a leader, although am usually a follower

I loved Koh Pa Ngan in 1992, with 2 bars the first full moon parties. I didn't find it myself but adventured around the area and found some very untouched beautiful beaches.

Khao San Road was actually interesting - if it weren't from those dreadlocked hippies, I probably wouldn't be here today.

Long live the hippies!!! But never trust them, as Sid said

[cmsally]

I once made a trip to India with a friend and made a point of visiting anything that guidebooks didn't recommend and also other people travelling didn't recommend for much of the trip. It was a really good trip apart from one night on a hotel roof in a dump called Jhansi (long story).

[cmsally]

I loved Koh Pa Ngan in 1992, with 2 bars the first full moon parties. I didn't find it myself but adventured around the area and found some very untouched beautiful beaches.

Koh Phangan 1986 was even better.

No bars, no full moon party!

I remember there was a woman who had a local noodle stall with khanom sen noodles served up with edible flowers!

Wonder if she is still there!

[lodesafun]

The World Has changed and is changing at an excellerated rate. How can Loney Planet or any publication keep up. what we had before was word of mouth and it sometimes was outdated itself. Then the Internet changed everything. I actually joined hotmail the 1st time on Phangan. A great site is wikitravel.

When the Full moon party started it was called "Paradise Bungalo full moon party" I still have a Biz card from them somewhere and it was within the confines of Paradise Bungalos only. 500 people was huge crowd then. with slogans like We love you already, Buckets were made with thai whiskey/ rum, Magic mushies were openly sold on the menu and the locals had a different Flavor. They did have a few to many pharmacies but No 7-11's.

The only thing that hasn't changed is the fullness of the moon. One good change is now the weekly drainage raw sewage no longer runs down the sand into the ocean I believe they pipe it into the ocean now.

Really the only reason I replied to this thread is to say Johnny Cash is a total legend and its a great pic Neeranam. I never knew that was voted as the best R&R pic but I can see how it is. thanks for the trivia.

One thing about LP, You can't buy your way into it.

[chiliwasabi]

My wife found a Thailand Lonely planet on the bus one day a few years back and to this day I find it very useful. When lying on my back on a hard floor it makes a surprisingly comfortable pillow.

[kiakaha]

When I came to Thailand years ago, I had a copy of the Lonely Planet. Subsequently, I went to Khao San Road and stayed with other backpackers, was scared of riding on buses as there were lots of 'razor' thieves and other crazy myths. Eventually I sold it and forgot about it til now, 16 years later.

I have a relative visiting who has a copy of the book so I read some of it. If I han't got rid of it, I'd probably still be living in KSR eating Israeli food, saying chatuchak instead of Jatujak.

Stay away from the tourists if you want to live here and get the most from this wonderful culture.

Also don't take any advice from people on Thailand web forums

Joe Cummings (the principal Thai Lonely Planet author) knows more than most foreigners to ever set foot in Thailand. Ever !!!

Many other foreigners (myself included with now 12 years of continuous stay in LOS) have lots of practical advice to offer (on forums).

I think LPs provide a pretty good intro and overview in general. The rest of the journey of course, is as always.... up to you.

[rott]

BTW Neeranam, your Johnny Cash avatar rocks! I think that was when he was in Folsom Prison, because he's wearing prison garb.

Johnny Cash was never in any real prisons except to do concerts. He did do a little time in county jails, but they are far less dangerous.

I thought he did 10 years for murder?

[Ulysses G.]

No, he was pretty much a pussy that could play music real well.

[Polsevogn]

Lonely Planet and the Lonely Planet Zombies who consider this silly book to be the Bible of travel are responsible for ruining many a formerly fine place. If it's in the Lonely Planet, it's on the way to being ruined by mass tourism, backpackers and people who don't have the talent to search for interesting places on their own.

Well, that's simply incorrect. A huge chunk of the guide is about North-Eastern Thailand, and in great detail. Show me where the mass tourism is there? South just the same, conscientious listing of bus and ferry time tables around Nakhon Si Thammarat.. Backpackers or tourists anyone? People just go for the beach areas, as well as places they consider cool & 'vibey', like Pai or Vang Vieng or Ko Pangan. That sets the stage for someone to open a more up-market resort, and tourism continues to develop from there.

The guy who writes it lives in Chiang Mai and some of his recommendations leave a lot to be desired. Also, excellent places are left out.

You have to take the shelf-life of your recommendation into account. Like if you recommend something on this forum then some people may visit the place, but 2 weeks later nobody will ever see it again. When you have to write something in a book in print that will be the 'current edition' for at least 2 years (so say 3 years from the time you write it taking production time into account) then you cannot list all the places that are currenlty 'hot', because chances are half of them will have closed or changed owners one year down the line. That's why some of the places listed can seem a bit stale; at least they're still around!

It says to drink drinks without ice for God's sake!

Where does it say that? From memory, it says to be careful with shaved ice, the stuff that comes from the big blocks that are sitting unprotected in trucks or on the pavement. It says that the tube ice is usually safe. I can't fault that recommendation, especially as a guide book you want to err on the side of caution when it comes to health. And picking up a nasty bug can easily ruin a short holiday.

[taxexile]

galong

Lonely Planet and the Lonely Planet Zombies who consider this silly book to be the Bible of travel are responsible for ruining many a formerly fine place. If it's in the Lonely Planet, it's on the way to being ruined by mass tourism, backpackers and people who don't have the talent to search for interesting places on their own. It's a lazy way to travel.

i tend to agree with that.

it enables "travellers" to be able to spend months in a country moving around in a little bubble without ever having to speak or interact with a local of that country. those books have cleverly succeeded in taking the adventure out of adventure.

no different to mass tourism type coach trips and package tours that l.p. acolytes often delight in slagging off.

those books just enable people to tick off with the minimum of effort sights seen from a long list of proscribed "must see must do " that the impressionable reader feels obliged to follow plodding behind all the others. they just dullify the whole experience of seeing new places , you see them second hand via the eyes and opinion of the writer , you have an expectation of what it will be like there , adventure travel to new places just should not be like that , it should be a discovery , not "a following" via someone elses words.

i have travelled "booked" with lp guides and travelled to new countries "bookless". the bookless experience beats the booked experience hands down each time...... mainly because you are forced to communicate with local people , and it's the people that make a country what it is , following a guide book trail the only people that are likely to be met are those directly involved with tourists , and they tend not to be truly representative of the country. without the book you may not always find the biggest temple , party or mountain nor the cheapest dosshouse , plate of noodles , or taxi ride but you will probably have more of an adventure.

so throw away that overweight comic and go it alone.

as far as adventure travel books go they are heresy and , like all heretics , should be burnt in a public square.

By 1985, when South-east Asia On A Shoestring was in its fifth edition, the Wheelers had conceived a format that is today familiar to most of us in one imprint or another - the cheesy author pictures in the opening pages (mullets and tinted lenses), the zoned-out practical advice: "Things change - prices go up, good places go bad, bad places go bankrupt and nothing stays the same." And the smattering of chilled philosophy: "The shoestring traveller ... is not a scrounger, a penniless layabout permanently high or a rip-off merchant. Blend in. Enjoy yourself. Most of all, make it easier for the travellers who are going to follow in your footsteps."

The Molvania spoof also makes a serious point about the Lonely Planet phenomenon. Thirty years after South-east Asia On A Shoestring was first published, this alternative handbook has transformed into a multimillion-pound publishing empire, with 600 titles written in 17 languages that have sold 60 million copies in 118 countries, employing 400 staff and 100 freelance writers. The website receives one million hits a day.

No quarter of the world (except Ascension island, to which there is not yet a Lonely Planet guide) remains uncharted, and those who buy the books today tend to stick religiously to the suggested itineries.

There are the dozen or so preparatory facts for every new tourist to bone up on: acceptable skirt and sleeve length, number of bows or curtsies to make in a temple, how many pairs of socks to bring and where to point your feet when eating. There are the suggested highlights and itineraries for every city that leave one valley swamped while the one next door remains empty. So precious is a Lonely Planet recommendation that it has built and broken many businesses worldwide. Those establishments that make it into the guide emblazon the endorsement above the premises. It is now a Lonely Planet world, where it is almost impossible to find oneself alone.

We tracked down Tony Wheeler to a mobile phone and, true to form, he was in an airport. Struggling to be heard above the arrival and departure announcements at Schiphol, Amsterdam, we asked if he had ever thought about publishing a guide to Molvania? "Very funny," he said, laughing. "I read that one while I was in Australia. But it is true we have almost run out of locations. Just now we are relaunching the Lonely Planet guide to Afghanistan after we saw comments posted on our website from backpackers who had arrived in Kabul and were stuck for somewhere to stay. And the funny thing is that, despite invasions by the Soviets, the Taliban and the US, the hotel to head for today is the same one I stayed in when I visited in 1972."

So has Wheeler inhibited adventure and created backpacker ghettos - such as the beach in Goa called Little Tel Aviv because all those on it are Lonely Planet-wielding Israelis? Wheeler resents such accusations. "Our guides are guides, not the law. Some people travel only to go bungee-jumping in Kuta or white water-rafting in Chiang Mai. But there are also still extremely adventurous people out there."

He believes that his guidebooks have matured along with his audience. "Thirty years ago, the average independent traveller was a hippy backpacker looking for an alternative lifestyle, but we recently conducted a survey that found the typical 21st-century independent traveller is a professional with a degree or even postgraduate qualification who goes away for between one and three months."

The traveller and the world has changed, argues Wheeler. "When I started out, I just wanted to help those who travelled for the sake of travel. I never knew that things would get this big. But the other day I heard someone bitterly complaining about the 'Lonely Planetisation' of the world. Like we made it all go bad. People racing around with our books and ruining the view. Lonely Planet was being lumped in with McDonald's as responsible for the ills of the globalised world. That's not fair."

The more brilliant the guide book, the more people are attracted to a destination and the less interesting the travel experience to be had. This is the Lonely Planet conundrum. We write this aboard a Siberian mail train about to roll into the oil town of Surgut where we are researching another story for Weekend. Our fellow passengers have spent nine hours ribbing us about the gunfights that keep townsfolk awake all night. There is no Lonely Planet guide for Surgut, and we miss it terribly. The reassuring list of clean hotels and friendly bars. Even the name of a good doctor

· Molvania: A Land Untouched By Modern Dentistry - A Jetlag Travel Guide, is published next week by Atlantic Books at £8.99. To order a copy, with free UK p&p, call 0870 066 7979.

Edited March 5, 2008 by taxexile

[Polsevogn]

i tend to agree with that. it enables "travellers" to be able to spend months in a country moving around in a little bubble without ever having to speak or interact with a local of that country.

Ah, as opposed to..... package tourism? Tourism of the Beach Road-Second Road loop kind?

They interact more then?

Come on we're talking about tourism; and the Lonely Planet demographic I think has its fair share of local interaction, likely more than any other group you'd care to mention. Or at least Lonely Planet offers people the information to go out and explore for themselves. More so than package tour bus tourists, surely.

Of course they're not at the high & mightly level of interaction and local understanding of us expats, but hey, who could know more about Thailand than we do. Heck we know more than most Thais do, don't we?