How Intellectually Stimulated Do You Feel

[xsplat]

You're borderline funny. Borderline. No more.

At the risk of being the pot that called the kettle black, you don't half like the sound of your own voice, huh?

Here's a tip. Stop writing what is floating in your head as if it makes as much sense to us as it does to you, and try writing as if someone else is reading it.

I'll take that as a compliment. At least I'm marginally amusing.

I'd probably have to be sober to do accomplish your writing tip. I can't count the number of times I've woken up to see that the brilliant wild associations that I posted on my blog the night before now read like gibberish. It's embarassing.

On the other hand, the gibberish often makes a great first draft, and often does have a few half-funny seeds of insight. Alcoholism is underrated.

And about the pot-kettle liking my own voice thing - absolutely I'm insecure. Goes without saying. I enjoy the challenges that insecurity provides, and try to take them on as a means of life improvement.

Edited March 6, 2008 by xsplat

[xsplat]

... That they have a common theme may be a measure of your character, it may be a measure of your agenda – but I don't need to imply anything with what you have chose to post – What you have posted speaks for itself (yourself).

Yes, what I posted does speak for itself, and I clearly stated what my agenda is. I'll say again:

---

Differences piss people off. I'm very aware of that. But it's my nature to get some sick thrill from short circuiting peoples cognitive dissonance filters. I piss people off for a reason, and I do it consciously. The intent is good, as I see cognitive dissonance filters as a crutch, at best. Only temporarily useful.

---

I get irritated by self-appointed Elders who want to police other peoples thoughts. Candy ass Aunties and local Vicars trying to tell other people about what to think and say are more trouble than help. So my agenda is clear. I'm anti PC.

Cultural sensitivity training totally backfires. The way to accomplish groups with differences living in harmony is to poke fun at each other mercilessly, and therefore truly appreciate our differences. Pretending that all differences are superficial or non-existent is giving in to fear, and that is muddled thinking, and muddled thinking does more harm than good.

Edited March 6, 2008 by xsplat

[Pepe']

Taught Anatomy and Physiology for many years then got burnt out on the politics.

I decided to start teaching part time again last year after taking off from it for four years.

Clinical Nutrition during the week and Human Pathology on the week end.

I tell students "I'm here as part of my personal Alzheimer's prevention program. By the way what

class is this?"

[PeaceBlondie]

Pepe raises a good point about senility: does remaining intellectually active, or at least keeping your brain stimulated, prevent the thinking processes from dying? Is this another example of 'use it or lose it'? And by the way, which thread is this?

[dominator]

Look at the evidence: there are many here who have made thousands of posts for God's sake. That's a not insubstantial number of hours interacting via a computer, instead of in person with local friends and neighbours. Why?

Many of us are using Thai Visa while we work to make our workday more fun. It is easy to look at TV and post when things are slow on the job and switch to work mode when it gets busy there.

I don't think that I could stand working 7 days a week with no TV!

I don't know where you live/work, but when I was working in England, it was considered abuse of company property to use computer equipment for anything other than the job. Surfing/private emails were not permitted.

[xsplat]

Pepe raises a good point about senility: does remaining intellectually active, or at least keeping your brain stimulated, prevent the thinking processes from dying? Is this another example of 'use it or lose it'? And by the way, which thread is this?

Yes, there have been studies that show that. You can build up what is called "cognitive reserve".

[xsplat]

At the risk of being the pot that called the kettle black, you don't half like the sound of your own voice, huh?

Oh, I misunderstood you last time. Yes, spot on. My narcissism is a huge driving force in my life. I say that with no sarcasm. I have a blog, for heavens sake. I need a blog.

[Naam]

I think I have something to say, and tenderly try to broach the subject.

well, why don't you say it? ...if possible in a language most of us can understand. plain english will do, wikipedia takes too long to load. tenderness not necessarily required

I love it when I can do both at the same time - flatter you, and make you look like a total dick.

the jury is still out to decide who exactly makes himself look like a total dick with some incoherent bla-bla

[Jingjok]

...Anyone here with a beautiful, intelligent wife?

Yes.

She's an MCSD programmer/mathematician with an IQ of 155. Beat me in the Mensa test years ago and never let's me forget it.

But she's Chinese, hated Thailand, and moved back to the UK alone

Not sure what point this makes...

[Edit - typo]

Edited March 6, 2008 by Jingjok

[xsplat]

[the jury is still out to decide who exactly makes himself look like a total dick with some incoherent bla-bla

That's semi-coherent bla-bla, thank you very much.

[Slated]

I did feel stimulated because I had to focus harder on my personal advancement.

[Mobi]

An interesting thread which -as ever - has strayed off topic into debates on Thai language, character analysis and farangs who tend to fantasise about their personal situations.

Maigo6 you are very funny.

But what seems to come out of all these posts is that many of us probably find it harder to become intellectually stimulated in Thailand than back home, for a number of reasons. The lifestyle here, which usually involves a culture of drinking, and whiling away sleepy hours in the hot sun, and a lack of like minded friends who are also seeking intellectual stimulation are common reasons for laziness and procrastination.

If we had a group of friends who would periodically suggest that we accompany them to a concert or attend an art exhibition etc. we would be far more likely to go, than if we always had to take the initiative and go alone. Friends “feed off’, and encourage each other.

Age is also a factor. Whether we like it or not, we all slow down as we get older, and it becomes increasingly difficult to be dynamic and make the effort to do something, rather than just sit around and vegetate. This is especially so if we have medical problems and have retired from a lifetime of hard work and stress. Many of us have also gone through nasty, traumatic divorces late in life, and our remaining energies tend to be channelled into carving out new lives with demanding, often difficult and always much younger new, Thai wives. Not much energy left to embark on intellectual stimulation.

I totally agree with Bendix, that it is more than possible to be intellectually stimulated, if you make the effort to seek it out. The issue is making the effort – not whether it is possible.

And incidentally, although I have been coming to Thailand for over 30 years, and worked here for 8 years back in the 70’s, in recent times I have only been living here permanently for the past 5 years. Nevertheless it was a surprise and eye opener to me to pick up a UK copy of the Sun that someone gave me the other day and find to my surprise that all the programmes being broadcast on UK television are almost identical to those that were showing when I left the UK in 2002 - most of it utter rubbish. I reckon I get a better spread of TV here, with my UBC, local cable, and the SA satellite.

And as for the Sun……

[xsplat]

An interesting thread which...

...And as for the Sun……

You make words aesthetic. I can almost smell your post. It smells like bacon and eggs in the morning.

(See? Semi-coherent)

[xsplat]

I did feel stimulated because I had to focus harder on my personal advancement.

You've got me interested. Can we get a chapter two?

Edited March 6, 2008 by xsplat

[Neeranam]

...Anyone here with a beautiful, intelligent wife?

Yes.

She's an MCSD programmer/mathematician with an IQ of 155. Beat me in the Mensa test years ago and never let's me forget it.

But she's Chinese, hated Thailand, and moved back to the UK alone

Not sure what point this makes...

[Edit - typo]

Ask her about the laws of electromagnetism.

In Thailand, a beautiful, intelligent woman is an oxymoron

[mrt273nva]

...Anyone here with a beautiful, intelligent wife?

Yes.

She's an MCSD programmer/mathematician with an IQ of 155. Beat me in the Mensa test years ago and never let's me forget it.

But she's Chinese, hated Thailand, and moved back to the UK alone

Not sure what point this makes...

[Edit - typo]

Ask her about the laws of electromagnetism.

In Thailand, a beautiful, intelligent woman is an oxymoron

when i was teaching 7 and 8 year olds in bangkok i came across an entire science section that was on magnetism, and a good portion was on electromagnetism. Thai's learn that stuff at a really young age, so I would assume they forget it when they get into more advanced stuff like commodity buying and selling (gold), and the effects of fermented rice on bodily organs.

[Cuban]

It smells like bacon and eggs in the morning

"You smell that? Do you smell that? Bacon & Eggs, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of Bacon & Eggs in the morning.... Smells like... breakfast"

Edited March 6, 2008 by Cuban

[pampal]

NO fair, the bacon and eggs look aroi

[Beardog]

It smells like bacon and eggs in the morning

"You smell that? Do you smell that? Bacon & Eggs, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of Bacon & Eggs in the morning.... Smells like... breakfast"

Now I am getting hungry!

[Jingjok]

Look at the evidence: there are many here who have made thousands of posts for God’s sake. That’s a not insubstantial number of hours interacting via a computer, instead of in person with local friends and neighbours. Why?

Maybe the 'Wiki Man', Spectator magazine, 20 Feb 2008, has just answered my question

Rory Sutherland's occasional column on technology and the web

There was formerly a rude custom for those who were sailing upon the Thames, to accost each other as they passed, in the most abusive language they could invent... a fellow having attacked him with some coarse raillery, Johnson answered him thus, ‘Sir, your wife, under pretence of keeping a bawdy-house, is a receiver of stolen goods.’

It’s said that the internet promises to usher in a new age of altruism and selflessness but let’s not forget there’s a good side to it as well. Free porn, video piracy, and above all the chance to insult new people. Like the riverboats of Dr Johnson’s London, the online world provides the two things essential to irreverent abuse — anonymity and safety from physical retaliation.

[HS Mauberley]

Jingjok: The problem with your 'hypothesis' is (i) by your own admission, you're not in a position to make valid judgements about the Thai language (cribbing from a dictionary doesn't count, I'm afraid) and, more importantly, (ii) it's a flawed argument. The strong Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (which you seem to be following) asserts that our thought is determined by the language which we learn. The evidence for the difference in thought processes is the language product, which is also claimed as the cause of the difference, making the argument completely circular. I've got a question for you: My (Thai) wife has just completed a PhD at one of the top-5 British universities. Obviously enough, she speaks English fluently. Are you seriously suggesting that had she not learnt English, she would have been intellectually incapable of doing her PhD? Because if you are, that's absurd and if you're not, I can't see the point of your post (other than the completely transparent attempt to elevate yourself above those poor benighted souls condemned – relative to an intellectual colossus such as you – to perpetual idiocy through the misfortune of being Thai-speakers.)

As for intellectual stimulation, at the risk of sounding like someone’s mum, those who complain of a lack of intellectual stimulation are generally not themselves intellectually stimulating.

[Colonel_Mustard]

those who complain of a lack of intellectual stimulation are generally not themselves intellectually stimulating.

Wise words.

[Jingjok]

"You smell that? Do you smell that? Bacon & Eggs, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of Bacon & Eggs in the morning.... Smells like... breakfast"

It smells to me like Aeschemic Heart Disease.

But delicious all the same

[Jingjok]

Oh dear, I thought I’d got away with this one. Now it looks like it’ll come back to haunt me.

Jingjok: The problem with your 'hypothesis' is (i) by your own admission, you're not in a position to make valid judgements about the Thai language (cribbing from a dictionary doesn't count, I'm afraid) and…

I agree. Cribbing alone doesn’t work – as I said earlier about hilarious product instructions translated from Chinese or Japanese. That’s why I always check with at least two native Thai-speaking friends.

The fact that someone is not in an expert on a subject does not preclude that person from having an interest in it, and – God Forbid – offering his or her own opinions and hypotheses. This is seeking out knowledge, and learning.

…more importantly, (ii) it's a flawed argument. The strong Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (which you seem to be following) asserts that our thought is determined by the language which we learn. The evidence for the difference in thought processes is the language product, which is also claimed as the cause of the difference, making the argument completely circular.

Thanks for pointing out the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis to me. I’d never heard of it. I’m no linguist or philosopher – all I really know about is bombs – so this stuff is far outwith my usual subjects. Fascinating all the same. It just goes to show that everything has been thought of before, and no doubt it’s all in Shakespeare anyway.

<< In the late 1980s and early 1990s advances in cognitive psychology and anthropological linguistics renewed interest in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Today researchers disagree — often intensely — about how strongly language influences thought.>>

<< The most extreme opposing position — that language has absolutely no influence on thought — is widely considered to be false (Gumperz: introduction to Gumperz 1996). But the strong version of the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis, that language determines thought, is also thought to be incorrect. The most common view is that the truth lies somewhere in between the two.>>

OK, I’ll go with that. I’m bored with this subject anyway.

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_hypothesis

…I've got a question for you: My (Thai) wife has just completed a PhD at one of the top-5 British universities. Obviously enough, she speaks English fluently. Are you seriously suggesting that had she not learnt English, she would have been intellectually incapable of doing her PhD? Because if you are, that's absurd and if you're not, I can't see the point of your post…

The point of my post was to stimulate discussion, and maybe so that I and others might learn something.

To answer your question fully I’d need to refer to Messrs. Sapir and Whorf. Although, being dead, they are not in a position to offer much assistance.

My answer is that I have no idea. Why not ask your wife? She’s clearly an intelligent woman, so is unlikely to take offence at scientific enquiry. Might I ask what her subject is?

I have a question for her. Assuming that she learned English from an early age, along with maybe other languages (?), does she believe that the acquisition of languages beyond her native tongue helped her access knowledge that would otherwise been inaccessible to her? And if so, did it also broaden her intellectual interests, and, by extension, maybe intellectual capacity as well? And here we teeter on the edge of the slippery slope which is the nature/nurture debate.

I make no prediction of what the complete story might be: this is straight Sapir-Whorf stuff. However, your wife's answer would be, although from the smallest possible sample, instructive.

… (other than the completely transparent attempt to elevate yourself above those poor benighted souls condemned – relative to an intellectual colossus such as you – to perpetual idiocy through the misfortune of being Thai-speakers.)

That’s not fair. I’m never impressed by personal attacks, especially when fired from the hard cover of anonymity.

I would add that what you say is painful to me, since biting one's tongue always hurts.

[Maigo6]

She's an MCSD programmer/mathematician with an IQ of 155.

Not sure what point this makes...

The 155 IQ makes her a genius, ( eg. Nobel prize winner.)

Then again, that's kinda normal for chatrooms and internet forums, full of the genius and millionaire types.

Bangkokchat was always full of Handsome Airline Pilots, Models, International Jetsetters, Company Directors or just plain ole' millionaires.

Reality was neither here nor there........

Edited March 6, 2008 by Maigo6

[Jingjok]

She's an MCSD programmer/mathematician with an IQ of 155.

Not sure what point this makes...

The 155 IQ makes her a genius, ( eg. Nobel prize winner.)

Then again, that's kinda normal for chatrooms and internet forums, full of the genius and millionaire types.

Bangkokchat was always full of Handsome Airline Pilots, Models, International Jetsetters, Company Directors or just plain ole' millionaires.

Reality was neither here nor there........

Wow! This guy has just bravely called me a liar from behind the usual battlements of anonymity.

I don’t hide quite so much: look at my profile and with a bit of Googling you could track me down. I never lie on forums – that’s the preserve of losers. Any opinion I express on here I would be happy to express in person to anyone’s face.

Tell you what Mr Maigo6, will you accept a wager from me, gentleman-to-gentleman?

You and I will invite anyone who wishes to attend from this thread, indeed this entire forum, to a drinks party at a venue of my choosing. There is no limit to what our guests may eat or drink.

If you can disprove the major substance of anything that I have said in any posting on TV in the last three months, or I am unable to reasonably prove such, which with advance notice might require documentary evidence, then I pay the bill, in full, immediately and without question.

Otherwise you pay.

A jury chosen by random ballot from our guests will decide the outcome.

I live in Phuket, and there are some nice places here.

Sir, an answer please.

[HS Mauberley]

The point of my post was to stimulate discussion, and maybe so that I and others might learn something.

The point was completely clear and it had rather more to do with stimulating your sense of self-worth than with stimulating discussion. The fact that when someone points out the flaws in your post you respond with:

I’m bored with this subject anyway.

is a bit of a giveaway.

To answer your question fully I’d need to refer to Messrs. Sapir and Whorf. Although, being dead, they are not in a position to offer much assistance.

Read a book or two. Think.

My answer is that I have no idea. Why not ask your wife? She’s clearly an intelligent woman, so is unlikely to take offence at scientific enquiry. Might I ask what her subject is?

Applied Linguistics

I have a question for her. Assuming that she learned English from an early age, along with maybe other languages (?), does she believe that the acquisition of languages beyond her native tongue helped her access knowledge that would otherwise been inaccessible to her?

Of course it did. Learning any language is clearly going to give you access to more information. But that's unrelated to your original post.

And if so, did it also broaden her intellectual interests, and, by extension, maybe intellectual capacity as well?

What's your point? One of the benefits of learning languages is that by so doing you broaden your horizons but this a wholly different claim than yours. If, as an English-speaker, I learn Thai, my (potential) intellectual interests will widen but this says nothing about how ‘well’ or ‘advanced’ native speakers of any particular language think. You seem to have missed the purpose of my rhetorical question, which was this: If your original post was correct, then by extension she would not have been able to complete her PhD without the (alleged) intellectual boost (??!!) given to her by the act of learning English. This seems to me be straightforwardly ridiculous.

And here we teeter on the edge of the slippery slope which is the nature/nurture debate.

No we don't. And I'm not sure what the relevance of the 'nature/nurture debate' is. Your post was about mother-tongue languages. There is nothing 'nature' about this.

[egg6447]

i,ll come will your wife be there?. no i,ll only come if your wife is there. to meet what /who i consider to be inteligent. to meet a inteligent thai would be like meeting jesus

[Jingjok]

i,ll come will your wife be there?. no i,ll only come if your wife is there. to meet what /who i consider to be inteligent. to meet a inteligent thai would be like meeting jesus

Can't help you here. She's HK Chinese. And it won't be like meeting Jesus: she's a militant, evangelical, atheist

[Jingjok]

The point of my post was to stimulate discussion, and maybe so that I and others might learn something.

The point was completely clear and it had rather more to do with stimulating your sense of self-worth than with stimulating discussion.

Well, what can I say? Apart from the fact that you are quite wrong: my sense of self-worth is already very adequate thanks. To the point of arrogance others have said

Please don't get your knickers in such a twist; it’s unhealthy, and it all really doesn't matter so much.

If you scroll back, you’ll see I always accepted, in several of my posts, that I might be wrong and wanted to argue the hypothesis.

Are you ever wrong?

As you have a wife who is an applied linguist, you clearly have easier access to more information than me, and I accept that.

I’d like to go on but am just leaving for supper. A poor excuse I know, but there it is.

How about we all discuss it amicably at the party I’ve proposed above, paid for by the guy who called me a liar on provable factual matters?

[Edit - typo]

Edited March 6, 2008 by Jingjok