The Dark Side

[patsfangr]

Not a culinary climax yesterday at the Sure Park Bar-B-Q but for 269 Thb it was quiet enjoyable.

I must reluctantly disagree with your lightly favorable rating, Luke. I was extremely disappointed in the food; and equally disenchanted with the "music". I found the both the beef and pork to be overcooked, dry, and, since there was no sauce basted on during the grilling, rather tasteless. The curry was mediocre, at best. The "salad bar" was pathetic, with some shredded carrots, slices of white onion, and ... not much else of note. There was fried rice, which was OK. The fried chicken fingers were ordinary, with a batter that tasted much like KFC. IMO, the only thing that made it even reasonable was the price. What can you expect for 269 Baht? I had just hoped that it would be a "special event bargain". It was not.

I also was a bit uncomfortable, because, much like Dao Cafe, there is no breeze in Sure Park, and he doesn't have adequate fans to keep you from sweating like a pig during your meal. (I know there's a room with A/C, but there was nobody in there, I wasn't comfortable with asking him to turn on the A/C for two customers. It's also located in a corner, with not much of a view. We sat at a table up top, between the bar and the buffet table.)

The guy singing with the band was just barely better than the karaoke from next door to Rungthip, which ensured that we left as soon as I finished satisfying my hunger with the offerings from the buffet.

After my previous bad experience with the F&C's a couple of weeks ago, this disappointment has now placed Sure Park right on the edge of the cliff for me. I really loved the filet mignon that I had for dinner on my first visit here. Since then, it's 0 for 2. My next steak is going to be at Manneke Pis, because it's been touted here as "the best" on the Dark Side. If, in fact, that steak is equal to, or better than Sure Park's steak, I may be done with Sure Park. (Although, I'm a little concerned about the comfort situation at Manneke Pis also, just based upon driving past. It looks a bit cramped. I don't know how their fan coverage is there. I'm not happy if I'm dripping in sweat while I'm eating.)

[paul1970]

OK, this is not a true "Dark Side" question. But, since we have a group of folks here who enjoy many of the "finer things in life", I thought I'd ask.

I love good bagged pretzels. I'm looking for suggestions on where to find the best of them.

The best I've found so far is "Beigel" brand, Sesame pretzels. They're made in Israel, and sold at Foodland. They're not the best pretzels I've ever had, but they're good. The best part of a bag of these may actually be after you've finished all the pretzels.

You know how a bag of pretzels usually has a lot of salt left in the bottom of the bag when you've finished all the pretzels? Well, we "veteran" consumers of bagged pretzels learned as kids that it's fun to wet the tip of your index finger, and pick up some of that salt for transfer to your mouth. With these pretzels, however, that leftover stuff at the bottom of the bag is not salt. It's a salty pile of sesame seeds. This provides a great many finger tips full of very tasty snack. Mmm, mmm, good! :-) (As you can tell, I was raised in very sophisticated environment!)

But, I digress. The question remains for all opinions. Where can we find the very best bagged pretzels in Pattaya?

I was in Villa market yesterday and they seem to have quite a few different Pretzel makes vailable but I wouldn't be able to comment on quality as personally I can't stand them (i'm more of a crisp "potato chip" man). You may want to try there for your pretzel hit.

[patsfangr]

I was in Villa market yesterday and they seem to have quite a few different Pretzel makes vailable but I wouldn't be able to comment on quality as personally I can't stand them (i'm more of a crisp "potato chip" man). You may want to try there for your pretzel hit.

Where is Villa, Paul? Isn't that "over there"? There is a new one that's going to open in a few days on Khao Noi. It appears to be rather small, so I don't know what it will carry.

[paul1970]

I was in Villa market yesterday and they seem to have quite a few different Pretzel makes vailable but I wouldn't be able to comment on quality as personally I can't stand them (i'm more of a crisp "potato chip" man). You may want to try there for your pretzel hit.

Where is Villa, Paul? Isn't that "over there"? There is a new one that's going to open in a few days on Khao Noi. It appears to be rather small, so I don't know what it will carry.

Yeah it's over on the other side, in the new Avenue place on 2nd road, it's like Foodland but better. I've seen the Villa on soi Khao Noi, I think it's an unrelated rip off of the original Villa chain.

[patsfangr]

On the Nernplubwan Soi 47, this is the soi on the left side coming from the Sukhumvit just before the Crossroad Bar, 150 m on the right side there is a new small restaurant called Crossroad Restaurant, breakfast, lunch and dine, small card with : fish & chips, hamburgers, spagetthi...prices between 100 an 150 Thb and some thai food on demand, as it was in the afternoon I only drank a beer, rather expensive 60 Thb for a small Leo, the owner, an american, seems to be the partner of the owner of the Crossroad Bar.

Just before this restaurant there is a new building, with swimming pool, in construction, according to the local rumours, the owner is the previous owner of the Dao Cafe and is intend to open a duplicate of his previous business.

I finally found this place. It is about 100 yards from Nernplubwarn. What is tricky is that you have to bear RIGHT at the fork in soi 47. I have always gone left there, using it as a connection to Siam CC Road. You can't see this small restaurant from the left fork. It's very small place, with two tables for four on the raised, open platform. There are 3 tables for two at road level, inside a row of plants that line the road. That's it. A total seating capacity of 14.

The great discovery for me (and, I expect, for all other Americans), is that this place has both pancakes and french toast on the breakfast menu; as well as a choice of cheese, western, and spanish omelettes! Find that selection anywhere else in Pattaya!

The cook and waitress, the only employee there, is an Isaan girl named Li. So, if there are more than 3 or 4 people in the place at one time, service may be a little slow. Li is a pleasant girl, with enough English to be understood in both directions. The caveat is that she has just learned how to cook farang food, having been taught by the owner, Jeffrey, when he opened about 2 months ago. Unfortunately, he was not there today. ("He go Pattaya to celebrate Songkran.") So we will have to help here improve her cooking skills. It's a very small kitchen area, with a two burner stove, and a couple of small deep fryers.

Today, I tried the F&C's. The fish, as openly printed on the menu, is local Halibut. So, while not "authentic", it is fresh and flaky fish. The batter was good; but Li didn't have the oil hot enough, so it was a bit more oily than it should be. But still brown and crispy. They make their own FF's from whole potatoes. They were cut a bit too thick, and, as with the fish, the oil was not hot enough, so they were a tad soggy, and not brown, as I like them. But I am hopeful that we can speak to Jeffrey about this, and educate Li rather quickly. I also need to talk to him, as I did to Li, about changing his oil from the heart stopping Palm oil, to soybean, safflower, sunflower, or corn oil Anything but palm! I'm just so dam_n happy to find American food items, particularly for breakfast, that I'm willing to be forgiving and patient with this place.

They also have burgers, bacon and egg sandwiches, BLT's, home fries, and onion rings.

I don't know if the menu will appear to many Brits, or other nationalities. I hope so, because, the more business the better. But you Americans should really give it a try. As I said, we need to be patient, and help Jeffrey develop Li's cooking skills. But I hope you'll help me ensure that we keep these American options available to us. (Yeah, I do have a selfish motivation. This place is exactly 1 km from my front gate! I plan to walk there for breakfast often, now that I've found it.)

[raro]

We tested last night the new Thai restaurant at the lake - forgot the name, but you cannot miss it...between 9999 Minimart and Khun John's. Very nice setting, so we expected it to be rather on the expensie side, but prices were reasonable. With three of us the bill was just below 1,000.

The food was very good, The Panaeng maybe a bit too salty. Then we had something I never saw before, the name was in english something like "Very spicy special" and in Thai I just remember that it had three times the "oe" sound at the end....anyways, it is minced pork as in Larb but the spices are completely different - not that hot, rather spicy. Eaten in a betel leaf like Miang Kham.

Well worth a second and third visit!

/edit: make sure you sit outside towards the street...they have this guitar player/singer that entertains the guests with Puff the Magic Dragon et. al.......at the street you can barely hear him.

Edited April 15, 2008 by raro

[jonniebkk]

so we expected it to be rather on the expensie side, but prices were reasonable. With three of us the bill was just below 1,000.

Not to be argumentative but I would consider a Thai restaurant bill for 3 people that came to around B 1000 to be quite expensive. Unless it was a 5-star hotel or really fancy place (and still I would consider it expensive ) Of course, it depends on the food one orders...lots of expensive seafood will certainly push up the bill.

At Cucumber restaurant, which I consider to be pretty good Thai food in a nice setting with good service, the bill for 3 people ordering typical Thai dishes would come to no more than about B 500.

[raro]

so we expected it to be rather on the expensie side, but prices were reasonable. With three of us the bill was just below 1,000.

Not to be argumentative but I would consider a Thai restaurant bill for 3 people that came to around B 1000 to be quite expensive. Unless it was a 5-star hotel or really fancy place (and still I would consider it expensive ) Of course, it depends on the food one orders...lots of expensive seafood will certainly push up the bill.

At Cucumber restaurant, which I consider to be pretty good Thai food in a nice setting with good service, the bill for 3 people ordering typical Thai dishes would come to no more than about B 500.

well...we had four food items and a couple of drinks, not many, though. The place has a really nice decor and you sit a bit elevated overlooking the lake...worth the extra!

[paul1970]

Last week I went to Rhung Tip with 2 Thai Adults and 2 Children, we only ate Thai, had a total of 10 dishes including the seabass with chili and lemon, only had soft drinks, total 830 Baht and everyone agreed that the food was fantastic.

[jonniebkk]

At Cucumber restaurant, which I consider to be pretty good Thai food in a nice setting with good service, the bill for 3 people ordering typical Thai dishes would come to no more than about B 500.

well...we had four food items and a couple of drinks, not many, though. The place has a really nice decor and you sit a bit elevated overlooking the lake...worth the extra!

As you had a good time and the food was to your satisfaction, they that's all that is important. Then it was good value for you

[jonniebkk]

had a total of 10 dishes including the seabass with chili and lemon, only had soft drinks, total 830 Baht and everyone agreed that the food was fantastic.

Rung Thip is so cheap for the quality and amount of food you get it's ridiculous. Just hope they don't read Thai Visa and raise their prices

[Mobi]

We tested last night the new Thai restaurant at the lake - forgot the name, but you cannot miss it...between 9999 Minimart and Khun John's. Very nice setting, so we expected it to be rather on the expensie side, but prices were reasonable. With three of us the bill was just below 1,000.

The food was very good, The Panaeng maybe a bit too salty. Then we had something I never saw before, the name was in english something like "Very spicy special" and in Thai I just remember that it had three times the "oe" sound at the end....anyways, it is minced pork as in Larb but the spices are completely different - not that hot, rather spicy. Eaten in a betel leaf like Miang Kham.

Well worth a second and third visit!

/edit: make sure you sit outside towards the street...they have this guitar player/singer that entertains the guests with Puff the Magic Dragon et. al.......at the street you can barely hear him.

Thanks for the report Raro.

I noticed there were a few cars outside last night.

I shall try it soon.

BTW we can only report our own personal opinions. "One man's meat is another man's poison" etc etc, but it is useful to get an opinion on a new place and then we can try it and see if we agree.

But I think it is pointless to start up an argument about whether one place cooks better fish or burgers, or breakfasts than another. We can just state our own personal view points and leave it like that.

This way the thread remains friendly and informative, without any rancour as to whether the Brits have better food than than the Yanks, or which Pizza is best.

If you like it it, then it's fine - for you - and that's all that really matters.

Just my opinion

[Humphrey Bear]

best breakfast bargain is at Canterbury Tales on Soi Chayapoon almost at Soi Bakaou (sp) 2 eggs(cooked to order), 2 pieces english bacon (ham) 1 sausage, fried tomatoes, baked beans, coffee, (1 cup), orange squash, 1 piece of toast with butter and marmalade. total cost B75 served 8am to 8pm.

Sorry, Bob. I don't want to start any national flame wars here , but the thought of baked beans and squash for breakfast makes me, and, I think, most Americans gag!

Food is most definitely a cultural thing. There are certain "staples" of just about every nation's food that don't sit well on the palate of other people. The English and American breakfasts have many things in common. But there are a couple of very significant differences.

I'll take some pancakes or waffles in place of those beans and squash, thank you!

Orange squash isn't an American squash (almost a pumpkin) but a drink - orange concentrate diluted far too much with warm water.

[wcr]

On the Nernplubwan Soi 47, this is the soi on the left side coming from the Sukhumvit just before the Crossroad Bar, 150 m on the right side there is a new small restaurant called Crossroad Restaurant, breakfast, lunch and dine, small card with : fish & chips, hamburgers, spagetthi...prices between 100 an 150 Thb and some thai food on demand, as it was in the afternoon I only drank a beer, rather expensive 60 Thb for a small Leo, the owner, an american, seems to be the partner of the owner of the Crossroad Bar.

Just before this restaurant there is a new building, with swimming pool, in construction, according to the local rumours, the owner is the previous owner of the Dao Cafe and is intend to open a duplicate of his previous business.

I finally found this place. It is about 100 yards from Nernplubwarn. What is tricky is that you have to bear RIGHT at the fork in soi 47. I have always gone left there, using it as a connection to Siam CC Road. You can't see this small restaurant from the left fork. It's very small place, with two tables for four on the raised, open platform. There are 3 tables for two at road level, inside a row of plants that line the road. That's it. A total seating capacity of 14.

The great discovery for me (and, I expect, for all other Americans), is that this place has both pancakes and french toast on the breakfast menu; as well as a choice of cheese, western, and spanish omelettes! Find that selection anywhere else in Pattaya!

The cook and waitress, the only employee there, is an Isaan girl named Li. So, if there are more than 3 or 4 people in the place at one time, service may be a little slow. Li is a pleasant girl, with enough English to be understood in both directions. The caveat is that she has just learned how to cook farang food, having been taught by the owner, Jeffrey, when he opened about 2 months ago. Unfortunately, he was not there today. ("He go Pattaya to celebrate Songkran.") So we will have to help here improve her cooking skills. It's a very small kitchen area, with a two burner stove, and a couple of small deep fryers.

Today, I tried the F&C's. The fish, as openly printed on the menu, is local Halibut. So, while not "authentic", it is fresh and flaky fish. The batter was good; but Li didn't have the oil hot enough, so it was a bit more oily than it should be. But still brown and crispy. They make their own FF's from whole potatoes. They were cut a bit too thick, and, as with the fish, the oil was not hot enough, so they were a tad soggy, and not brown, as I like them. But I am hopeful that we can speak to Jeffrey about this, and educate Li rather quickly. I also need to talk to him, as I did to Li, about changing his oil from the heart stopping Palm oil, to soybean, safflower, sunflower, or corn oil Anything but palm! I'm just so dam_n happy to find American food items, particularly for breakfast, that I'm willing to be forgiving and patient with this place.

They also have burgers, bacon and egg sandwiches, BLT's, home fries, and onion rings.

I don't know if the menu will appear to many Brits, or other nationalities. I hope so, because, the more business the better. But you Americans should really give it a try. As I said, we need to be patient, and help Jeffrey develop Li's cooking skills. But I hope you'll help me ensure that we keep these American options available to us. (Yeah, I do have a selfish motivation. This place is exactly 1 km from my front gate! I plan to walk there for breakfast often, now that I've found it.)

Crossroads Fine Dining is a partnership between Peter (UK) of Crossroads Bear Bar and Jeffery (Yank). Jeffery runs the Fine Dining side. You can order food to be delivered to the bar if you are in there or they also do a home delivery service as well.

I haven't eaten there yet, but will be paying a visit tonight.

[patsfangr]

I went to the Crossroads restaurant again this afternoon. I had intended to go for breakfast this morning, but I got sidetracked earlier. I arrived a bit after 1 PM at Crossroads. The owner, Jeff, was seated at a table, and we had a conversation. He convinced me to try his cheeseburger, since, during a phone conversation last night, I had told him about my favorite cheeseburger in the Pattaya area, the one at Rung's.

There are two ways to compare the two. IMO, the cheeseburger at Rung's has better tasting burger meat, and a little bit more of it. The cheeseburger at Crossroads tastes very good, and is much better than any other you can find on the Darkside, other than Rung's.

However, if you use a "value" comparison, you have to go with Crossroads. It's very tasty burger meat, OK cheese, fresh lettuce, tomatoes, and onion; and served on a decent sized fresh bun. It comes with FF's made there from fresh potatoes, cut large, and cooked well, though not long enough for proper browning for me today. (Just ask for them "brown", and they'll adjust for you.) The price there is 120 baht. A great bargain for a good cheeseburger!

At Rung's, the cheeseburger costs 205 baht. So, while it is, IMO, a bit better, you'd have to make your own decision on whether the bigger, slightly tastier burger, is worth the extra 85 baht. Personally, I am also influence by the location. Crossroads is 1 km from my house, with virtually no traffic issues. Rung's is 4 kms up "motorbike hel_l", also known as Nernplubwarn. So, in all likelihood, I'll alternate between them when I get a "burger urge."

As I enjoyed my burger, Jeff, the American owner, and I had some good conversation about our many commonalities. As I continued enjoying both the food and the conversation, a fellow Thai Visa member, LuckyLuke, showed up. Despite my longtime membership here, Luke is the first member I have met since I met the two American friends who had helped me prior to my move from So Cal. Luke is Belgian, and, while our long conversation revealed a great many areas of political disagreement, I greatly enjoyed his company. Thanks for the socializing, Luke!

Back to the subject at hand, I again recommend that all Americans in the area give Crossroads a try. I don't think you'll be disappointed. My next test will be those American omelettes I mentioned in an earlier post. Jeff also told me that they can prepare many Thai items that are not on the menu. So you can bring your Thai lady, and just let here ask for what she wants. If they have the ingredients, they'll always try to please the customer.

[raro]

whether the Brits have better food than than the Yanks,

isn't that a bit like the blind leading the naked?

<running and ducking >

[luckyluke]

....... Luke is Belgian, and, while our long conversation revealed a great many areas of political disagreement, I greatly enjoyed his company. Thanks for the socializing, Luke!...........

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks, pleasure was all mine

" I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend."

Thomas Jefferson

Edited April 16, 2008 by luckyluke

[wcr]

I am finding this post a little hard to write as Peter (partner in this place - Crossroads) is a friend of mine. However I already told Peter last night about my views on Crossroads Fine Dining.

I went there last night with my partner. The place is extremely small and the lighting is awful. They have one tube in the ceiling which was giving off a blueish tint and not really suiting my eyes. It was also very hot inside.

The menu is very small, no more then about ten items. We both ordered the one of the two pasta dishes. The menu said it came with salad and bread. There was some confusion in the kitchen as I ordered the same item twice as we both chose that item. My partner was called into the kitchen to explain what I wanted. He explained to them we both wanted the same dish, then they understood. The pasta arrived, and had no salad and no bread. I started to eat the pasta, which was served with 4 slices of cooked carrot which I found a little strange. In the bottom of both of our plates was a lot of water where the pasta had not been drained. This put me off eating the pasta. I only eat about half of it. My partner eat it all but didn't enjoy it. As we finished the meal, Jeffery the American partner noticed we had no salad and told the cook to get us some. I said no as we had finished the meal.

There was one other person in the restaurant who was eating fish and chips. I didn't like the look of the fish or the chips. As an Englishman the dish did not look like it should do to me. The chips where very thick and didn't look cooked to me. The man eating the dish left a lot of the chips on the plate so I guess they weren't that tasty?

I will not return again and I told Peter that also. My partner also stated that he didn't like the food and suggest he could cook better!

As for the American owner/partner he was very chatty and a little opinionated. Dare I say a typical yank??? Liked the sound of his own voice!!! I have met him twice now and heard some of the same stories last night to what I heard on the first meeting.

I hope this doesn't sound too negative, but it is my honest assessment of how I found the place. I certainly wouldn't call it fine dining. Sorry.

Edited April 16, 2008 by wcr

[chuckd]

Any way we can keep the prejudices about nationalities out of this thread???

It gets a little tiresome at times.

Edited April 16, 2008 by chuckd

[wcr]

Oh dear, sorry you find it tiresome. You a yank by any chance?

[jonniebkk]

I hoope this doesn't sound too negative, but it is my honest assessment of how I found the place. I certainly wouldn't call it fine dining. Sorry.

Thanks for the detailed information. By combining your observations with George's, we have a more complete picture of this place. This doesn't sound like the kind of place I would make any effort to try. Neither of you seemed very satisfied with your meals'...I know George tried to sugarcoat it but he basically said that just about everything was just not quite right and we needed to work with the staff to iron things out in the kitchen. I am sorry, but that is not our job. It was said, however, that the F&C and burger were okay. You certainly were not pleased with your pasta (nothing like water at the bottom of a pasta dish to put one off it).

The atmosphere doesn't sound very inviting either...it sounds like what we Yanks would call a "dive." Tiny place, a couple tables, poor lighting and no air con. Staff sound like they have not been trained enough in cooking farang food...can't even remember what sides come with the mains.

Sounds more to me like some business set-up so the owner can swing a visa rather than a real attempt to open a decent restaurant IMHO.

[chuckd]

Oh dear, sorry you find it tiresome. You a yank by any chance?

Yes. So what? Your comment had nothing to do with the quality of food and were superflous to your other comments, which by the way were informative.

The "typical Yank" comment was off the mark.

[Mobi]

The "typical Yank" comment was off the mark.

I agree. It''s actually denigrating a nation of people.

To my mind this has nothing whatsover to do with the purpose of this thread, and will only cause it to degenerate into a slanging match, which will result in it's closing.

Which will be a shame as it has been very good, if you put aside the childish disagreements on food quality and Yank/Brit bashing.

BTW I'm a Brit.

[patsfangr]

The "typical Yank" comment was off the mark.

I agree. It''s actually denigrating a nation of people.

To my mind this has nothing whatsover to do with the purpose of this thread, and will only cause it to degenerate into a slanging match, which will result in it's closing.

Which will be a shame as it has been very good, if you put aside the childish disagreements on food quality and Yank/Brit bashing.

BTW I'm a Brit.

Exactly right, Mobi. I even extend it to food related shots. I've made the point a couple of times in this thread that there is no right or wrong about food. There are preferences, most of which have been developed over many years, especially our developmental years, spent in a particular culture. While some of us adapt to enjoy of several cuisines, in addition to that of our native land; there are also those among us who never appreciate at least some items that are favorites in other cultures. So be it. Those differences in taste don't make the food of any culture better or worse than any other. When I comment on items from other cultures that I do not like, such as England's "mushy peas", steak and kidney pie, or black pudding; I try to be careful to specifically say that I don't like it, without saying that there is something wrong with the people who do. Just a matter of choice.

Much more importantly, however, we have had a great time with exchanging opinions on various items at many of our Dark Side restaurants. I think those who've followed this thread have expanded their dining options, or, at least, their awareness of dining options, on our side of the tracks. We're going to lose that if we start the flame wars. So why not keep that stuff for other threads, if you choose to engage in it, OK?

I'm an American. And, frankly, a very proud and opinionated American on political subjects. But I enjoy having a place like this thread to come to, where I don't have to be concerned about somebody taking shots at my country; and turning an enjoyable conversation into a tension filled exchange of insults.

So, please, let's stick to "Dark Side Restaurants" as our topic of conversation here. OK?

[chuckd]

I'm with you guys on this.

[patsfangr]

Thanks for the detailed information. By combining your observations with George's, we have a more complete picture of this place. This doesn't sound like the kind of place I would make any effort to try. Neither of you seemed very satisfied with your meals'...I know George tried to sugarcoat it but he basically said that just about everything was just not quite right and we needed to work with the staff to iron things out in the kitchen. I am sorry, but that is not our job. ...

I'm not saying it's our job, John. However, I do think that all new restaurants deserve a break. Remember that I said the same thing about The Courtyard, which has had nothing but bad reviews from everybody who's tried it.

There's a well known restaurant critic in LA, named Elmer Dills. He always made it clear that he had a personal rule that he would not review a new restaurant until it had been open for six months, and had a chance to iron out the "rookie" kinks. Now, of course, patrons can't wait that long, or no restaurant would survive. But I think we should understand the point that Mr Dills was making.

There is, I readily acknowledge, a selfish reason for my willingness to try to work with Jeff. As I said in my initial review of the place, he has items on the menu that can't be found anywhere in Pattaya that I know of. I miss the American breakfast items he lists: pancakes, French toast, and American style omelettes (cheese, western, and Spanish). He may not have his cooks trained well enough to prepare these things well YET; but with some constructive criticism from customers (rather than just writing the place off), and a willingness to listen, and try to improve (which Jeff seems to have - at least about food!), perhaps this place can be saved, and provide a source for some American style food. I, for one, am going to continue to go there now and then, try those breakfast items, and give Jeff my opinions, whether positive or negative, in a constructive spirit.

But that's just me. If he didn't have those American items on the menu, I might not feel that strongly about it, because it is just a little "sidewalk" cafe, with no "creature comforts" to attract us.

I'll also be giving The Courtyard another chance or two within the next couple of weeks.

That said, I think I'll be taking the short drive to Chonlada for a late breakfast tomorrow. I have to see if Pook has tried to learn to make a western omelette, as she promissed me she would! I plan to be there at about 10, if anybody else cares to join me.

Edited April 16, 2008 by patsfangr

[OZEMADE]

I live on the dark side and thought a best eateries and pub's / bars for the dark side would be good as there seems very little information available for what is over here.

Usually when I want a beer or some food I cross over Sukhumvit and theres only 2 places I've really been to over here, the new Kiss eatery on Soi Siam CC has OK food 24 Hours a day and occasionally I have had a beer in Lucky Time bar on Soi Nernplubwaan, the bar is OK but I would suggest that you avoid the food, not good.

Has anybody tried the pub on Soi Khao Noi called the Red Lion, I was given a recommendation but every time I drive past it seems empty ?

Anyway c'mon you dark siders let's get some quality info on the dark side.

[OZEMADE]

I live on the dark side and thought a best eateries and pub's / bars for the dark side would be good as there seems very little information available for what is over here.

Usually when I want a beer or some food I cross over Sukhumvit and theres only 2 places I've really been to over here, the new Kiss eatery on Soi Siam CC has OK food 24 Hours a day and occasionally I have had a beer in Lucky Time bar on Soi Nernplubwaan, the bar is OK but I would suggest that you avoid the food, not good.

Has anybody tried the pub on Soi Khao Noi called the Red Lion, I was given a recommendation but every time I drive past it seems empty ?

Anyway c'mon you dark siders let's get some quality info on the dark side.

Try the OUTBACK Bar on Siam Country Club Rd near the reservoir, great company, icy cold beer and great food all for the right price.

[Jimmyd]

While I don't live on the Dark Side, I've been following this thread with interest--I might even venture across that great divide called Sukhumvit sometime to sample some of the places you've discovered.

The problem is I'm afraid I'd get lost. I wish you guys could do a google map of the area or something so I could feel confident that I would not drive off the end of the Earth or into some half-filled reservoir.

Finally let me add my voice to those praising this thread for it's civility--unfortunately that is something much scarcer than it should be on Thaivisa.

[patsfangr]

While I don't live on the Dark Side, I've been following this thread with interest--I might even venture across that great divide called Sukhumvit sometime to sample some of the places you've discovered.

The problem is I'm afraid I'd get lost. I wish you guys could do a google map of the area or something so I could feel confident that I would not drive off the end of the Earth or into some half-filled reservoir.

Finally let me add my voice to those praising this thread for it's civility--unfortunately that is something much scarcer than it should be on Thaivisa.

Jimmy, it isn't nearly as difficult as some make it sound. Those of us who live here have learned some "light traffic" routes that are more convenient, but more difficult to find. However, all of the restaurants named in this thread are really very easy to find, if you're willing to deal with the traffic of the two main roads that run from Sukhumvit, to the east. And that traffic is nothing compared with what you have on the main roads on the west side, especially at night!

The only inconvenience is in getting to the 2 main roads; Soi Siam CC Road, and Nernplubwarn. Neither can be accessed directly from the west side of Sukhumvit. You have to go north on Suk, toward Pattaya Nua, and make a U-turn before you reach that road. Then drive back to go down Soi Siam, or past it, to go down Nernplubwarn (Soi 53), just before the pedestrian bridge near Pattaya Klang.

Once on those roads, you rarely have to make more that ONE turn to find any of restaurants listed in this thread. Just read the directions.

As for a map, the best map of the entire Pattaya area, including the Dark Side, that I've found has been mentioned here before. It's got a red cover, with a partial map on it. At the top, is a large yellow block with the word "Pattaya" in it. Below that, in smaller white letters, the words "Big Area Road Map". You can find this in most places that sell maps, like bookstores, or magazine areas in the markets. Really excellent detail of even the smallest sois. What is not accurate, unless they've published a new edition, is the newly completed roads that run on each side of the railroad tracks. But these are very simple to learn, since that are, as I just said, parallel to the railroad tracks, and run for several kilometers. (They're still extending them beyond the north-south borders of Pattaya.)

Hope that helps.