School Fees Legal Or Not?

[importford]

My wife just came back from a school that is associated with Wongshowalitkun University in Nakorn Ratchasima.

Our daughter is 3 years old and we want to send her to the kindergarden of this school.

They called my wife this morning for a meeting.

They asked her to put 10.000 bath in a closed envelope.

My wife had to donate this to the school.

This was an extra on top of the normal fees; no bill, no invoice,...

My wife taped the full conversation with her mobile telephone.

According to her, the law now says that schools can not ask any more for these kind of donations (extra legal fees, briberies,...)

Is this true?

What is the actual law?

What can she do? Go to the police, put the conversation on the radio, make a complaint where????

[torrenova]

Are you new to Thailand ?

Don't you know about greasing the wheels ?

Perhaps illegal but not in the context of demand outstripping supply where the school has to choose between children of parents who make a donation and those who do not.

Sure its a bribe but .......

[soihok]

What do you think?

After all this do you think that you could ever.....ever,,,put the security of your baby in the hands of someone you question?

Please wake up before its too late.

If you have already given money ,,please dont worry.

You can get get money any and every day.

You cannot compare it to your child.

Edited March 7, 2008 by soihok

[palusa]

Are you new to Thailand ?

Don't you know about greasing the wheels ?

Perhaps illegal but not in the context of demand outstripping supply where the school has to choose between children of parents who make a donation and those who do not.

Sure its a bribe but .......

Sorry matey, got to take issue with you here, what a bloody attitude, if nobody fights back or at least does not accept the norm, how can things change, can you blame the offenders for continuing to expect their extras?. What price do you put on your integrity.

Morals are relative to the person concerned in a particular situation, your conscience will dictate who and what you accept, I once was like you, but, why the hel_l should the situation change if we still abide by the "way"?

No insult meant, sorry if i upset you, its just my opinion

[soihok]

Are you new to Thailand ?

Don't you know about greasing the wheels ?

Perhaps illegal but not in the context of demand outstripping supply where the school has to choose between children of parents who make a donation and those who do not.

Sure its a bribe but .......

Sorry matey, got to take issue with you here, what a bloody attitude, if nobody fights back or at least does not accept the norm, how can things change, can you blame the offenders for continuing to expect their extras?. What price do you put on your integrity.

Morals are relative to the person concerned in a particular situation, your conscience will dictate who and what you accept, I once was like you, but, why the hel_l should the situation change if we still abide by the "way"?

No insult meant, sorry if i upset you, its just my opinion

Exactly,,,,,What price do you put on your baby.

Just move on with the feeling that you have not put your kid in any kind of compromprising situation with respect to their saftey.

You would never sleep soundly again.

You would never over come the guilt if ,,,,,,,,,,

Edited March 7, 2008 by soihok

[Daffy D]

Perhaps I’m missing something here – a bribe to allow your child an education?

Now I know all about greasing the wheels and am not averse to slipping a note to the upholders of the law for some minor traffic infringement, but to pay a bribe for your child to go to school – what kind of school is this? Would you want your child to go to this kind of school?

I assume education is compulsory in this land of eternal smiles. So why pay under the table? If your child is not accepted in the local school complain to the education department.

My 3 year old is due to start school soon and we have had no suggestion of extra payments – so this subject is of interest to me.

Now being a VERY cynical Daffy perhaps the OP wife is just trying to get a bit of extra cash out of hubby.

Cynical Daffy.

[billd766]

Perhaps I’m missing something here – a bribe to allow your child an education?

Now I know all about greasing the wheels and am not averse to slipping a note to the upholders of the law for some minor traffic infringement, but to pay a bribe for your child to go to school – what kind of school is this? Would you want your child to go to this kind of school?

I assume education is compulsory in this land of eternal smiles. So why pay under the table? If your child is not accepted in the local school complain to the education department.

My 3 year old is due to start school soon and we have had no suggestion of extra payments – so this subject is of interest to me.

Now being a VERY cynical Daffy perhaps the OP wife is just trying to get a bit of extra cash out of hubby.

Cynical Daffy.

As far as I know education IS compulsory however that is at a state school or a school recognised by the Ministry od Education.

My son went to a private kindergarten when he was 2 and a bit and we paid 700 baht a month up country. I paid for February this year and my wife then said that she wanted him to go to a better school in the next village.

OK by me but the first school would not return the 700 baht saying mai mee ben ha etc. Even my wife couldn't get it back.

Now we pay something like 2,000 baht a term but it does include the school bus transport and lunch every day as well. It is a bit cheaper but a better school.

I assume that the school the OP is on about is a private offshoot of the university and needs to make a profit and it can be selective about the children it takes.

Therefore in their eyes probably if the "donation" is not forthcoming then there may not be a place in the school for the child. In other words pay up and your child goes to this school because if not there is a selection policy. Not right by any means but it is the lae of supply and demand.

Sorry about that.

[Daffy D]

If the school running costs exceed the current fees then the fees should be increased. Paying cash under the table undermines the basic function of a school. We send our kids to school not just to learn the 3 R’s but also basic discipline and standards of behavior, how can they learn these values in a school where the first lesson is about corruption. Will the kids have bragging contests to see which of their parents gave the most cash; will the kids whose parents could not afford a full envelope be snubbed and looked down upon by the “Richer” kids?

I can understand any institution including schools wanting extra monies, church roof, college library extension, toys for children’s hospital the list is endless but I don’t really think the plain cash envelope is going to improve the schools facilities.

If the school needs extras to improve its facilities then the way to do it would be to set up a fund that parents and children could openly donate to and be proud to be contributing to the betterment of their school.

I think teaching is a vocation not just a job, 9 to 5 and paid every Friday, you have to like what you are doing. Trying to beat some knowledge into all those little monsters, and they aren’t even your own you got to have some dedication. Good teachers deserve and earn every penny thy get. Unfortunately I don’t think the will get any of the bribe money.

Finally, once you have paid the bribe why should the school have any real incentive to give your kids a good education? It would be in their interest to make your kids unhappy so you take out of that school and make way for another set of parents with their envelope of money. Hey! They could just have a couple of cheap crappy teachers to give the appearance of having a school but the real business is the envelope money under the table.

But that is just me being cynical again

Daffy

[KhaoNiaw]

I'm surprised it was ever legal, as it's always been 'under the table' as it were. You make the donation to get your child into a decent school. Usually the better the school, the higher the 'donation'. Some schools will ask potential parents how much they are prepared to donate should their child be accepted - part of the selection process. You don't have to play along if you don't want to - you can send your child to the local temple school or whatever the alternatives are.

In the past, school fees that could be charged by private schools were quite strictly controlled, so you would get a receipt that was quite a bit lower than what you actually paid, though everything would be laid out in detail elsewhere. From the fees my daughter's school charged, they definitely couldn't manage, never mind develop, on what they were 'allowed' to charge.

I think (maybe someone could confirm) that one of the changes that has been made recently is a relaxation of the strict controls over school fees. Schools have more freedom to set their own fees, and this is why the tea money required to get into the schools in the first place is no longer supposed to be necessary. However, when you've still got parents competing to get their children into those schools, then I'm sure the practice will continue.

[torrenova]

Are you new to Thailand ?

Don't you know about greasing the wheels ?

Perhaps illegal but not in the context of demand outstripping supply where the school has to choose between children of parents who make a donation and those who do not.

Sure its a bribe but .......

Sorry matey, got to take issue with you here, what a bloody attitude, if nobody fights back or at least does not accept the norm, how can things change, can you blame the offenders for continuing to expect their extras?. What price do you put on your integrity.

Morals are relative to the person concerned in a particular situation, your conscience will dictate who and what you accept, I once was like you, but, why the hel_l should the situation change if we still abide by the "way"?

No insult meant, sorry if i upset you, its just my opinion

I totally agree with your comments in the vast majority of situations and I do refuse to let them get away with rip ofs to the extent that I will deprive myself of something if need be to avoid being ripped off. As for upsetting me, no way, I've got thick skin

I also agree that if we do not stand up and say "no" then we condone their robbery.

However, in this particular instance we are talking about the education of your child. If the best school needs a "bung" then refusing to play that game and sending your kid to a lesser school actually hurts your kid and for me, whilst I will fight for fairness, I will not use my baby to fight my battles.

Think about university. Now in the UK, Cambridge is at the top and if they said that your child would be offered a place if you could see your way fit to buy them a new lawnmower or buy some slates for the roof or put a donation into the kitty you would be mad not to take them up on their offer. Keep your morals and send your kid to a shit school or university and I'll send mine to Cambridge and watch over the next 40 years as she reaps all the benefits of a top class education and the contacts she makes.

The only time I would refuse would be if Oxford had offered her a place with no bung - in other words, an establishment of similar standing.

[mpdkorat]

My wife just came back from a school that is associated with Wongshowalitkun University in Nakorn Ratchasima.

Our daughter is 3 years old and we want to send her to the kindergarden of this school.

They called my wife this morning for a meeting.

They asked her to put 10.000 bath in a closed envelope.

My wife had to donate this to the school.

This was an extra on top of the normal fees; no bill, no invoice,...

My wife taped the full conversation with her mobile telephone.

According to her, the law now says that schools can not ask any more for these kind of donations (extra legal fees, briberies,...)

Is this true?

What is the actual law?

What can she do? Go to the police, put the conversation on the radio, make a complaint where????

Its called chair money and its standard practice in state schools that are over subscribed. If you have a very smart kid you might not be asked to pay anything, but if your child in not up to standard you will have to pay or they will have no chance of getting into the better schools. Up to you.......

[PattayaParent]

If the school running costs exceed the current fees then the fees should be increased.

I doubt that the money is going into the school bank account, more likely into the pricipal's pocket.

[benlovesnuk]

If the school running costs exceed the current fees then the fees should be increased. Paying cash under the table undermines the basic function of a school. We send our kids to school not just to learn the 3 R's but also basic discipline and standards of behavior, how can they learn these values in a school where the first lesson is about corruption. Will the kids have bragging contests to see which of their parents gave the most cash; will the kids whose parents could not afford a full envelope be snubbed and looked down upon by the "Richer" kids?

I can understand any institution including schools wanting extra monies, church roof, college library extension, toys for children's hospital the list is endless but I don't really think the plain cash envelope is going to improve the schools facilities.

If the school needs extras to improve its facilities then the way to do it would be to set up a fund that parents and children could openly donate to and be proud to be contributing to the betterment of their school.

I think teaching is a vocation not just a job, 9 to 5 and paid every Friday, you have to like what you are doing. Trying to beat some knowledge into all those little monsters, and they aren't even your own you got to have some dedication. Good teachers deserve and earn every penny thy get. Unfortunately I don't think the will get any of the bribe money.

Finally, once you have paid the bribe why should the school have any real incentive to give your kids a good education? It would be in their interest to make your kids unhappy so you take out of that school and make way for another set of parents with their envelope of money. Hey! They could just have a couple of cheap crappy teachers to give the appearance of having a school but the real business is the envelope money under the table.

But that is just me being cynical again

Daffy

what are you talking about money for church roof?????? we arent in america or england maybe you still think you are????!!!!! in the same respect im sure employee's of the schools in the west get a considerble amount more then those in thaialnd even the heads. so its not really the same is it. you really are qualers daffy.

you seem to be thinking aloud and writing your idiosyncracies on the page!!!! please stop.

what are you talking about again, why would the baby child be learning about deception and bribing does he or she have any idea about what is going on? what a strange thing to think. it is of course down to the parents and how they feel it will best help the child.

i think that this happens lot and it is down to whether you believe it is worth the money, and whether this truly is better for your child. this happens all over the world and it will continue to do so, when people have money and power they will use it as necessary.

of course it is exactly the same as what hapens in a traffic incident, in the regard you are paying money for a benefit for less hassle and privilages, or in this case to get accepted for the school. it obviously raises questions about what is done with the money and how it is used. i can only talk about bribary in respect to police officers as this is a known problem and i have read about the affects. it has relevance in maybe determining a response on how you should consider carefully what you are doing and the more important well being of your child. when bribes go to police officers it is a sure sign of corruption amongst the police and as this spreads it matains in facilitating greed and further problems that are widespreading. thaialnd was tested as being the second most corrupt country in s.e.asia second to the phillipines in regards to these matters. do you want be apart of that? can you freely accept what this means? if so do as you please.

i think your question however is alot more transparent and you are really asking for assurances against the money you have spent. if it is a under the table deal you know something is not right. but it is your discreation and integrity that is also at risk!

[sampsonpm]

First post so excuse me if I have this wrong. My girlfriend in Kumphawapi near Udon Thani is telling me school fees are 9000 baht per term. I thought Govt schools were basically free. I'm not sure if this is like the under the table payment, but 9000 baht per term for a 3 year old seems a bit high given the local incomes.

Edited March 18, 2008 by sampsonpm

[catwho]

nearly all the non state schools have joining fees here in pattaya,where my daughter goes entry fee 20,000 and 22'000 a term,we did get the entry fee down to 10.000.all above the table,not under as these schools are there to make money.the school before was only 6000 entry [askorn]

state schools u pay no joining fee,unless a bit upmarket from the norm,

state schools give out envelopes printed with name of school and what the donation is for,to the parents to ask friends to help out for books etc,the temples do the same.

so be sure if the money is not the normal entry fee,and things were not misunderstood.

cat

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Demonstration schools under the auspices of Thai Universities always require entry fees.

[torrenova]

What are these 10000 baths he's being asked to give anyway ?

Just pay the money if you want your kid to go there.