Thai Muslims Demonstrate Over Muhammad Cartoon

[clausewitz]

This cartoon protest is justified because Islam just wants respect for religion, right?

BTW does anyone remember how much rioting and protests happened in Islamic countries after the Taleban blew up those ancient buddhist statues in Bamiyam.

The saddest thing about this cartoon episode is the leftwing apologists - yes the same ones who are the quickest to condemn any trivial western problem- supporting the Islamic reaction.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Libya, Libya, Libya,

Here you go again with totally unpronouncable words:

"Several people posting on this topic would be advised to read Areopagitica (1644) then come back later".

I checked this out, and it is 32 pages. So it will take a while to read, and I might be some time...

Otherwise I am stunned by this whole debate, about comics and religion. So since if I say anymore, I will be banned, I shall be quiet. Since I do not think it is worth being banned from TV talking against the biggest threat to the civilised world in recent history. Because I am bound to lose anyway...

[zaza]

Thank you, garro. If you had cited facts in the first place I would not have posted what I did.

and why would you wait for(garro) to post (facts) for you???

Why would not you seek out for the truth by yourself? why don't you Google it?

Speaking now from a 100% westernized citizen conscious wise I wish to add this; you know you can not blame those people to be closed-minded cause mostly they live in a very oppressed tyrannic sheikdoms who have all kinds of (thought-POLICE) . But what are our excuses to accept or understand others??? why would some western ppl just jump on and hate everyone who does not look like them or think like them? <deleted> should they care if a woman wears a curtain or a tent?? why don't they dislike that dress code worn by nuns and Amish women??

why don't they try to read and know what are the reasons or just simply follow the rule of:: what if I was in those ppl's shoes??? Do you like to be treated in that way?

Where was the (freedom of speech) with Layla al-attar bombing??????????

Why are you jumping on me? Where did I say anything about hating anyone? It was a comment on form not content.

no no no. am sorry if it sounded am jumping on you. I was addressing us all who usually wants to be spoon-feeded with information which sometimes comes from a bad media kitchen.

My deep apology if u were offended.

[onzestan]

Speaking now from a 100% westernized citizen conscious wise I wish to add this; you know you can not blame those people to be closed-minded cause mostly they live in a very oppressed tyrannic sheikdoms who have all kinds of (thought-POLICE) .

I understand that this is a very sensitive subject for you, as it is for me, but for completely different reasons.

I agree that those people are close-minded but that's no excuse for the fact that their only reaction to any threat or perceived threat in whatever innocent form (as I believe a cartoon to be) to their religion they have only ONE reply : violence.

The topic is about meddling with a sovereign states policy of freedom of speech, which I believe to be paramount among the few rights that remain.

No malice intended

Onzestan

Edited March 13, 2008 by onzestan

[garro]

The thing that annoys me the most is that everybody knows that insulting their prophet gets Muslims riled up. So why do it? Why is it so important that some clowns be allowed to print cartoons which were so obviously created to cause offense? The issue is not only why do Muslims react that way, but why are people setting out to get this reaction? Do they think that if they do it enough it will cause Muslims to stop being offended?

Edited March 13, 2008 by garro

[Prakanong]

Do not be amazed if this topic is closed or very heavily moderated.

Don't blame you one bit. Remember the outrage when an artist made a nud_e sculpture of Jesus out of chocolate? When it involves Jesus, the outrage results in angry letters, phone calls and protests. When the outrage involve the founder of another certain religion...it may result in gunfire and things exploding.

It is not just Muslims who resort to violence when they feel their religion has been slighted. Many in Northern Ireland used religious sensibilities as an excuse to blow the shit out of one another. I also feel fairly confident that no mainstream media would now get away with cartoons making fun of the other's religion. No matter how much they whined about freedom of speech.

And there is the rub - they USED religious sensibilities as an EXCUSE.

For certain others it is not an excuse but the reason - no matter how irrational and mind numbingly dumb to beleive there is a god, great creator etc

[jstumbo]

I think it is just a reaction to people in the west feeling that they are bending over backwards to try to make Muslims feel welcome. To accommodate them, when they do not want to assimilate into normal society. Then they see what Muslim countries do to non Muslim populations.

Imagine if the people of France welcomed people from the UK with open arms, and did everything to make it easier in France for UK citizens to live there. And the UK citizens lived separately from the French citizens in France and would tell the French that they needed to change their laws and customs to be like they are in the UK. That the UK people wanted to have their own separate laws that affected them instead of using the French laws. And if someone in France said anything bad about people from the UK, they had to risk being killed by a Briton.

While at the same time you had French people in the UK. The French in the UK were treated at 3rd class citizens and were oppressed. If they complained about anything in the UK, they were threatened with death. If there were roving bands of UK citizens that would seek out French citizens in the UK and kill them just because they were French. If groups of UK citizens were kidnapping and beheading French citizens living in the UK on the Internet. If UK citizens were to go to France and blow up trains, hijack planes and fly them into buildings. Then the UK comes out and condemns these attacks but at the same time keeps spreading propaganda to their own population saying how bad the French are.

How long do you think it would take for someone in France to come out with something against the UK citizens? How long before there would be some kind of backlash against the Britons? Would people in France keep saying, we do not want to offend the UK, or would they say that they have had enough of it and protest against the UK?

Edited March 13, 2008 by jstumbo

[DirkGently]

I hear that next week their will be a protest against the horrors that are foisted upon us on a daily basis in the name a certain god.

Wait! Wait! What am I saying? That's just silly.

On a more serious note. The followers of a certain personality cult claim that it is wrong to depict their prophet. This is 100% nonsense as there are many many portraits of him done by the adherants of that cult.

[garro]

<br />I think it is just a reaction to people in the west feeling that they are bending over backwards to try to make Muslims feel welcome. To accommodate them, when they do not want to assimilate into normal society. Then they see what Muslim countries do to non Muslim populations.<br /><br />Imagine if the people of France welcomed people from the UK with open arms, and did everything to make it easier in France for UK citizens to live there. And the UK citizens lived separately from the French citizens in France and would tell the French that they needed to change their laws and customs to be like they are in the UK. That the UK people wanted to have their own separate laws that affected them instead of using the French laws. And if someone in France said anything bad about people from the UK, they had to risk being killed by a Briton.<br /><br />While at the same time you had French people in the UK. The French in the UK were treated at 3rd class citizens and were oppressed. If they complained about anything in the UK, they were threatened with death. If there were roving bands of UK citizens that would seek out French citizens in the UK and kill them just because they were French. If groups of UK citizens were kidnapping and beheading French citizens living in the UK on the Internet. If UK citizens were to go to France and blow up trains, hijack planes and fly them into buildings. Then the UK comes out and condemns these attacks but at the same time keeps spreading propaganda to their own population saying how bad the French are.<br /><br />How long do you think it would take for someone in France to come out with something against the UK citizens? How long before there would be some kind of backlash against the Britons? Would people in France keep saying, we do not want to offend the UK, or would they say that they have had enough of it and protest against the UK?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

The problem with your posts is that assumes that Muslims are not from the west. Are you suggesting that you need to be Christian to be considered European? Many Muslims were born there and so it is as much their country as anybody else born there and they already are its citizens.

[jstumbo]

But most of these protests are not in the west. They are in mostly Muslim countries. And I would imagine that most people that are protesting in the west are probably first generation people, ones whose parents probably came from those Muslim countries.

Being from the US, and having Muslim friends in the US. They don't like that they printed the cartoons, but mostly because they think they did it just to cause a problem. But at the same time they don't attack and destroy the Danish embassy in Washington DC because of it. They have more of the feeling as do most people in the US that their religion is their choice and that you should be free to do whatever you want as long as it is not infringing on anyone else's rights.

Bottom line, it is just a small percentage of Muslims that are giving Muslims in general a bad reputation. But with over 1 Billion Muslims, it only takes a small percentage to be quite a few people and to create havoc. That is why insurgent/gorilla tactics work. It makes it hard for the enemy to defeat you because they do not know who you are. They have to punish the general population in order to get to you, and then they risk pissing off even more of the general population, thus driving them into your fold.

[clausewitz]

Percentage of people expressing "a lot of confidence" or "some confidence" in bin Laden:

In the Palestinian territories: 71%

Morocco: 49%

Indonesia:58%

Saudi Arabia: 'Almost half'

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/08/poll.binladen

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...anguage=printer

[Jefferson]

The thing that annoys me the most is that everybody knows that insulting their prophet gets Muslims riled up. So why do it? Why is it so important that some clowns be allowed to print cartoons which were so obviously created to cause offense?

It wasn't aimed to cause offense. It was aimed at, in the opinion of the author, not mine, to 'highlight the violent nature of Islam'. That's opinion.

And in response, they plot to kill him, thus adding significant credibility to the author's opinion that's supposedly so wrong..

It'd all be very funny in a smirky sort of way, if it wasn't so sad, in a violent sort of way.

[kmart]

The thing that annoys me the most is that everybody knows that insulting their prophet gets Muslims riled up. So why do it? Why is it so important that some clowns be allowed to print cartoons which were so obviously created to cause offense? The issue is not only why do Muslims react that way, but why are people setting out to get this reaction? Do they think that if they do it enough it will cause Muslims to stop being offended?

You can usually count on certain groups to be "offended" easily. Radical religious groups of every faith are not exactly known for their tolerance or sense of humour. The original "offensive" cartoons were printed by a Danish newspaper wanting to contribute on the issue of "self-censorship", and restrictions imposed by government on criticism of Islamic extremism. In this, I feel they were perfectly justified in going ahead in mocking this stripe of extremism. The violence of protests worldwide that followed this publication were a perfect illustration (sic) of the cartoons' spot-on subject matter. Crowds of "supporters" of Islam holding up banners declaring death and beheading to "those who mock Islam" in Western cities everywhere. Using their host countries' freedoms to demonstrate; to promote hostility against them is pure irony. They know where the exit is, I hope.

[Scott]

Sadly, I don't exactly see the point in reprinting these cartoons. I am a strong supporter of freedom of speech, but it seems rather silly and pointless. If there was a meaningful discussion being written about that I could understand, but this seems more like it is just being done to inflame folks.

It's generally wise to steer clear of religion which will raise a lot of ire. In the US, there was some restaurant, I think, that had some ad with a guy sitting on the head of a Buddha statue and that got some folks here quite upset.

At any rate, maybe things are just a little too quiet in Denmark in the winter and they need some action or attention.

[naka]

These things only happen in countries where "Rent a Mob's" are cheap

Naka.

[spasticated]

<br />

<br />

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Danish newspapers were printing cartoons which were viewed as anti-semitic or involved naked pictures of underage kids. Would they still be viewed as defenders of free speech?<br /><br />I think people in the Muslim community have over-reacted but continuing to publish this rubbish isn't helpful

<br /><br />Middle eastern newspapers contain anti-Semitic propaganda and cartoons all the time.When &quot;people in the Muslim community&quot; as you oddly called the rentacrowd mob outside the Danish Embassy start dealing with that, I'll take their protests seriously.<br /><br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Yes but the international community rightly criticises these anti-semitic publications and has done so frequently. There is not the discussion about the rights of free speech. Where is the international condemnation of the Danes?<br />

<br /><br />I suppose one crucial difference is that objectors to the anti-Semitic cartoons (which are far more prevalent and extensive) do not resort to threats of murder, and in some cases-as in Holland- actually butchering satirists on the street.<br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

And this is the big difference, say anything in some Muslim countries and lose your hands, life etc. Now where do you want to live?

[elkangorito]

The thing that annoys me the most is that everybody knows that insulting their prophet gets Muslims riled up. So why do it? Why is it so important that some clowns be allowed to print cartoons which were so obviously created to cause offense? The issue is not only why do Muslims react that way, but why are people setting out to get this reaction? Do they think that if they do it enough it will cause Muslims to stop being offended?

Before this "circular" threads is closed, I will suggest that all of this nonense is NOT about religion...it is about "power". Particular the power of the self.

So why do it? Very easy to answer.

If somebody gets annoyed at something you say, they have just told you EXACTLY how they can be controlled...they have given some of their power to you. These people simply love to be controlled. And if you pay attention & look closely, you may also notice that these same people subscibe to some sort of "code", whether it be religiously or culturally based or neither. Simply put, they can't live their lives without rules...without being told what, when, how & why to do something. When something happens that causes ripples on their otherwise calm lake of "rules", they freak out & look for the cause (blame).

What they don't realise is that life is not a "calm lake"...it not only can have ripples but huge waves.

Offense is not something that is caused to anybody by any external thing. Offense is something that is totally created within the mind of the person. They choose to be offended & then choose to act on this. There is only one thing that any of us has complete control over & that is "the thought we are having NOW! We can't control the thought we had 2 seconds ago because it now exists firmly fixed in the "past". We can't control the thought we will have in 5 minutes because we do not know what it will be.

This simple process is called "changing your mind". Thoughts are very powerful things. Thoughts created our world & can therefore surely destroy it. It's a shame that the majority of humans on this planet don't understand that they have complete control of there thoughts & therefore control how they may react (or not react) to any given situation. "Rules" only complicate this matter more.

Why are people setting out to get this reaction?

Purely for amusement.

All of these things are part of the "human condition" & when we all learn to NOT take life so seriously, all of these silly games will be recognised for exactly what they are...silly games. It's too bad that people don't see these things as games. They take it too seriously & their idiotic reactions harm others when clearly all can be avoided if they understood that they have complete control of themselves...not the words (or pictures) of others. Clearly, they choose to NOT be responsible. Another example of how rules allow people to avoid responsibility.

There are no rules for anybody/everybody.

[sbk]

Well, perhaps we should leave it on a high note instead.

elkangorito, thank you for a thoughtful, well thought out post.

///CLOSED///