Burning Continues And Air Quality Issues

[Bluelotus]

The Air Quality is the worst today that I've seen this year . It is obscuring the Billboards !!!!!

[Ulysses G.]

I haven't seen anyone keeling over - or even coughing - in the Thapae Gate Bubble area yet today. Is Priceless around to give us the statistics?

Go ahead, I know how you boys enjoy bashing the General.

Edited March 22, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Rasseru]

One wonders when this topic will be merged with the massive topic regarding the same subject that has been built up to its present scale from previous mergers of other topics regarding the very same subject. A weighty topic indeed!

[Blinky Bill]

One wonders when this topic will be merged with the massive topic regarding the same subject that has been built up to its present scale from previous mergers of other topics regarding the very same subject. A weighty topic indeed!

Couldn't agree more Razz. Mind you if all these topics were merged there'd only be half a dozen or so topics left on the board and and most of them would be about hamburgers and pizzas. Deep stuff.

Edited March 22, 2008 by Blinky Bill

[realthaideal]

Here here ! Me too. Merge this stuff before I get eye cancer from too much of it.

'But wait! I have a unique perspective others haven't thought of yet. I need my own thread. I don't think the others are aware enough yet!'

Edited March 22, 2008 by realthaideal

[Priceless]

I have no measuring equipment, but my impression is certainly that today's visibility is the worst so far this year. I live near the Night Safari and could not see Doi Suthep and hardly make out the contours of Doi Kham this morning. The Pollution Control Department website actually says that the concentration of particulate matter has gone down since yesterday's figure. One must however remember that their figures are averages over 24 hours from 9:00 AM one day to 9:00 AM the following day. This means that the figure they've posted today under the heading 22-Mar-08 mostly covers yesterday. I would expect tomorrow's figure to be considerably worse.

Earlier in this thread mobs00 describes a lot of fires in Lamphun and Lampang that he saw when flying into CM yesterday. It appears from the Thai Meteorological Department website that we have southeasterly winds at the moment, so we may be suffering from "imported" smoke from these provinces

/ Priceless

[Priceless]

I haven't seen anyone keeling over - or even coughing - in the Thapae Gate Bubble area yet today. Is Priceless around to give us the statistics?

Go ahead, I know how you boys enjoy bashing the General.

I have commented in the "Burning Continues" thread.

/ Priceless

[Rasseru]

. . . . .

I have commented in the "Burning Continues" thread.

Yet another target for a brilliant merger!

[Ulysses G.]

I have no measuring equipment, but my impression is certainly that today's visibility is the worst so far this year.

Some people claim that when one looks at Doi Suthep, what I think of as "fog" is actually pollution. Is this true?

When I first came toThailand in 1989, I remember that it was quite foggy every day in the winter time - more so than now - but no one was complaining about the air. Does this mean that Chiang Mai was polluted way back then?

[Priceless]

I have no measuring equipment, but my impression is certainly that today's visibility is the worst so far this year.

Some people claim that when one looks at Doi Suthep, what I think of as "fog" is actually pollution. Is this true?

When I first came toThailand in 1989, I remember that it was quite foggy every day in the winter time - more so than now - but no one was complaining about the air. Does this mean that Chiang Mai was polluted way back then?

That's why I pointed out that I have no measuring equipment, for particulate matter pollution that is. I do however have a hygrometer which tells me that the current humidity level is 44%, which makes morning fog very unlikely. I don't think that visibility is to be trusted as a measure of pollution (at least not without supporting evidence) but today it should probably be seen as at least circumstantial evidence. We will get more of a definite answer when the PCD figures are posted tomorrow.

I first came to Chiang Mai in February of 1984 and I certainly cannot recall having noticed any signs of pollution then. Whether this depends on there not being any, my not noticing it or my memory having deteriorated further than I thought, I don't know

/ Priceless

[PeaceBlondie]

I think it is smoke, not morning fog. Now at 2 p.m., I can barely see the outline of Doi Suthep from the Canal Road.

Yesterday afternoon the wind was very strong, and I had to slow down from my usual speed on the bike.

[Ulysses G.]

I noticed because it was quite chilly and foggy every morning and reminded me of San Francisco, where I was living at the time.

[bsided69]

The Air Quality is the worst today that I've seen this year . It is obscuring the Billboards !!!!!

Yes its so bad its obscuring the topic " Burning continues"

Edited March 22, 2008 by bsided69

[Maejo Man]

I have not posted on any of the smog/pollution threads as moaning does not slove any problems as much as it would be nice. Having said that, the view from Doi Suthep today was frightening!!!

Edited March 22, 2008 by Maejo Man

[meadish_sweetball]

Ok, I will attempt a merge here since my Internet seems to have stabilized again... Hold on to your hats lads.

[Rasseru]

Ok, I will attempt a merge here since my Internet seems to have stabilized again... Hold on to your hats lads.

Well, we're half way there! Call it a pre-merger merger.

[Rasseru]

. . . moaning does not slove . . .

Waddya mean? Moaning is a sign of truest slove!

[Mapguy]

Glad to see some merging here!

A reminder:

There's a meeting of a Thai-farang action group on Chiang Mai air pollution on Sunday, 23rd March at 12:00 Noon at The Large Wawee at Nimmanhemin Soi 9 behind the Starbucks. The organizers have been active for a while, and they are not interested in speeches. You'd really be preaching to the choir there.

[Gravelrash]

I haven't seen anyone keeling over - or even coughing - in the Thapae Gate Bubble area yet today. Is Priceless around to give us the statistics?

Go ahead, I know how you boys enjoy bashing the General.

I don't think anyone on this forum actually enjoys bashing anyone, even me unless presented with nonsense or attacked first. You have taken a stance that everything is fine. Whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant, because regardless of how bad the air is, surely it benefits everyone if it is better?

[Ulysses G.]

I have never said that "everything is fine". I have said that normally the air quality here doesn't usually bother me personally and that I think that some people are exaggerating how it affects the general public.

I live here full time and would like the best living environment possible, however, purposely blowing the situation out of proportion has more negative consequences than positive ones.

[Gravelrash]

I have never said that "everything is fine". I have said that normally the air quality here doesn't usually bother me personally and that I think that some people are exaggerating how it affects the general public.

I live here full time and would like the best living environment possible, however, purposely blowing the situation out of proportion has more negative consequences than positive ones.

Many posters live here Ulysses, those complaining about air quality I would suggest are not paranoid, delusional or looking for something to gripe about. I would agree with them, albeit having come from a very clean part of the world makes pollution here somewhat obvious. Perhaps you are from LA or similar whereas it probably does look ok in comparison.

I really fail to see any negative consequences to improving the air we all breathe. regardless whether we can agree as to how bad it actually is. If you or the cat don't agree that is fine, how about just wishing those who are pro-active the best in their efforts to what can only help all of us.

[Ulysses G.]

I lived on the coast in San Francisco for 15 years before coming here which has some of the cleanest air anywhere.

Of course, there are no negative consequences to "improving the air we all breathe", however, there are lots of problems caused by convincing tourists that if they visit Chiang Mai on vacation they will be coughing and choking the whole time, especially when it is just not true.

Last year, which was totally unusual, most tourists avoided Chiang Mai for about 6 months when the real air pollution problem lasted something like one week. This year there are far fewer tourists at this time of year than in the past and I have little doubt that it is our new reputation for pollution that is causing it - a reputation that is highly exaggerated to say the least.

Edited March 22, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Priceless]

I have never said that "everything is fine". I have said that normally the air quality here doesn't usually bother me personally and that I think that some people are exaggerating how it affects the general public.

I live here full time and would like the best living environment possible, however, purposely blowing the situation out of proportion has more negative consequences than positive ones.

Many posters live here Ulysses, those complaining about air quality I would suggest are not paranoid, delusional or looking for something to gripe about. I would agree with them, albeit having come from a very clean part of the world makes pollution here somewhat obvious. Perhaps you are from LA or similar whereas it probably does look ok in comparison.

I really fail to see any negative consequences to improving the air we all breathe. regardless whether we can agree as to how bad it actually is. If you or the cat don't agree that is fine, how about just wishing those who are pro-active the best in their efforts to what can only help all of us.

To me, that is a rather ridiculous comment I don't think that anybody on this forum has ever argued that improving the air quality would be a bad thing. What some of us have argued is that it is a bad thing exaggerating how bad it is ("worst in Thailand/the world" etc), thereby scaring away people that would otherwise come to experience this lovely city (and to contribute to the income of UG and others with businesses here).

I myself come from one of the cleanest cities in the world. In spite of this, I am not personally disturbed by the air quality here (except some times in March, particularly last year). This however does not make me deny that other people clearly are experiencing bad respiratory symptoms here. I must agree with UG though, that this is no reason to blow the whole thing out of proportion.

It may be worth noting that, so far this month, the average pollution level is slightly less than half the figure for March of last year. Isn't that more worth celebrating than moaning about?

/ Priceless

Reason for edit: UG beat me to it.

Edited March 22, 2008 by Priceless

[Bluelotus]

Tiny strokes felled great oaks ..... BF

[Loom]

I would have thought that the coup made more international headlines last year. Anyhow, isn't this forum mostly read by expats not tourists? When I travel as a tourist to places I've never been before, I try to check weather conditions but never the air quality. There are many reasons why tourism may be down this year compared to last. I'd say that this year the global credit crisis will have more of a bearing on the number of tourists than the coup or air pollution may have had last year. Has anyone compared the trends in tourist numbers for overall Thailand and Chiang Mai?

As for the posts favoring a "let it go, nothing will ever change" attitude toward air pollution in Chiang Mai, I strongly disagree. My Thai family threatened to walk away from my wife's farm in CM many times last year after my frequent complaints about the burning of garbage and farm cuttings.

The turning point may have been the response a forestry dept official gave us when I asked if we should just burn dead leaves. It took him over 30 minutes to answer that question and not only did he tell us how to handle dead leaves without burning but he encouraged us to be proactive in many ways to discourage burning of all kinds.

Since then the soybean cuttings from the field have been composted and I've learned that the cuttings from clearing another small plot were set aside to compost as well (the second compost pile was made without any input from me). When I'm there, I am also seeing bags of garbage taken out to the roadside for truck pickup.

Everyone's situation is different, but it's factually incorrect to make blanket assertions that there's no point in doing anything about air pollution because nothing can be achieved.

[T_Dog]

Loom, Thank You for that! One of the very few posts that address my original post which I will repeat below.

My neighborhood is MUCH better this evening after the Public Health department announcements. People are talking about it and agreeing that it is bad to burn. Thailand is a developing country, the government has made good progress. I've gotten a lot of good ideas from this thread and from many emails. Some folks are suggesting a college scholarship competition... a great idea that gets to the root of education.

I think the original post (question) has been met to my satisfaction. If you do respond, please be aligned with the original post which was:

========

So I ask you, is there anything that could be done to get the colleges and the government to become involved to stop the burning once and for all? Do you have contacts that would want to get involved? Also, what are the current phone numbers that can be called outside of the city of Chiang Mai that might possibly rally law enforcement of a practice that I understand is illegal? Chiang Mai has a very high respiratory illness level and eliminating the burning would sure help that a lot. What are the things that concerned Thai nationals and visitors can do on this issue? The city of Chiang Mai is getting good results reducing the burning so now it would be good to expand those successes to outlying areas.

========

Chiang Mai's air has been much better this year due to the communication and enforcement of the burn by the government. It is good for everyone to make further progress.

[Priceless]

I would have thought that the coup made more international headlines last year. Anyhow, isn't this forum mostly read by expats not tourists? When I travel as a tourist to places I've never been before, I try to check weather conditions but never the air quality. There are many reasons why tourism may be down this year compared to last. I'd say that this year the global credit crisis will have more of a bearing on the number of tourists than the coup or air pollution may have had last year. Has anyone compared the trends in tourist numbers for overall Thailand and Chiang Mai?

As for the posts favoring a "let it go, nothing will ever change" attitude toward air pollution in Chiang Mai, I strongly disagree. My Thai family threatened to walk away from my wife's farm in CM many times last year after my frequent complaints about the burning of garbage and farm cuttings.

The turning point may have been the response a forestry dept official gave us when I asked if we should just burn dead leaves. It took him over 30 minutes to answer that question and not only did he tell us how to handle dead leaves without burning but he encouraged us to be proactive in many ways to discourage burning of all kinds.

Since then the soybean cuttings from the field have been composted and I've learned that the cuttings from clearing another small plot were set aside to compost as well (the second compost pile was made without any input from me). When I'm there, I am also seeing bags of garbage taken out to the roadside for truck pickup.

Everyone's situation is different, but it's factually incorrect to make blanket assertions that there's no point in doing anything about air pollution because nothing can be achieved.

Has anybody claimed this?

BTW it's heartening to hear that I'm not the only one building a compost

/ Priceless

Edited March 22, 2008 by Priceless

[Mapguy]

REMINDER:

There's a meeting of a Thai-farang action group on Chiang Mai air pollution on Sunday, 23rd March at 12:00 Noon at The Large Wawee at Nimmanhemin Soi 9 behind the Starbucks. The organizers have been active for a while, and they are not interested in speeches. You'd really be preaching to the choir there.

[mouse]

Unless you were born here or have citizenship you too are a guest.

Total rubbish! We are all citizens of the planet and have a right to speak out about our enviroment. Borders were created by Governments which was followed by apathy once the taxes were paid. Continue speaking out. It will make a difference! Irregardless of how small it will be something.

[shroomer]

I have not read this whole thread from the start, so am not sure if someone has mentioned this. I have been in Chiang mai for 6 years now, and it seems to be that air pollution from burning is a lot worse than when I came here first. It used to be bad for a few weeks in April / May, but not it seems to be bad last and this year so far) from January all the way through to June. Has the amount of burning increased, or are there other factors at play?