Anti-deppressant Medication

[siamsam]

My farang sister, a tormented poor soul, has been taking phsycriatric medication for a number of years for obsessive compulsive disorder and depression. Against the shrinks advice, she stopped taking her medication, 18 months ago. She's tried and tested most, if not all of the head med's, which seem to do litttle more than "take the edge off things". Although she feels like she's moved forward with respect to losing the croutch of her med's, she isn't at all well. Just today the poor girl rang me in a pretty desperate state. My own research, suprisingly said 2yrs and beyond to overcome the withdrawl/aftermath of these medications? So I'm not sure is she's suffering the return - in full force of her illness, or withdrawl from the med's? I guess a combination of the two sounds prudent.

A couple of years ago I took her to Los. Unfortunatley the timing of the holiday coincided with one of her "bad" patches and she had, what I would describe, the closest thing to a breakdown in a Phuket hotel room. She's tried and tested numerous alternative therapies in the uk - fruitless in terms of relief. She has an interest in Buddism and insists that her pain is karmic - in the phsyco/spiritual sense. Could this be true?? My fear is that one day she will do the "ultimate" to end her torment, and I've always had this horrible feeling this is her destiny. Anyone can share experiences/advice. You think a return to the med's is a good idea?

[cathyy]

What's your sister's official DSM IV psychiatric diagnosis? The fact that she went off the meds against medical advice is a clue that maybe she ought to go back on them. Maybe she has a chemical imbalance that the meds correct.

The rough thing with anti-depressants (and the thing they never tell you) is that they don't just keep you from feeling really depressed. They keep you from feeling any emotion strongly. You're never miserable, but you are never really happy, either.

It took my sister a couple of years to kick Prozac after being on it for a couple of years. She was horrified that she began experiencing MOODS, like everyone does, when she quit taking Prozac. She hated having days when she felt grumpy or irritable. She wanted her Prozac back. It was hard for her to adjust to normal moods after a couple years of essentially feeling nothing. She's okay now, though.

I wish your sister well!

[350torana]

Yeah, I can relate to this. My wife was daignosed as depressed six months after our first born and spent two weeks in a ward. Still on medication,Fluoxentine is the main prescription I think .It was diagnosed as compulsive, depression but this was a Thai Dr so I am always a bit cynical . Interesting ,her mum undertook shock therapy 20 years before .I really think my wife's problems are more related to a traumatic upbringing in a house with an abusive physco for a mother than genetics. But, this is Thailand, therapy is a novelty. Oh well, sorry, getting off topic. Medicines are great, but there are side effects. Wife sleeps until noon everyday . I found the best things to do are fresh air , exercise and support

[meadish_sweetball]

My farang sister, a tormented poor soul, has been taking phsycriatric medication for a number of years for obsessive compulsive disorder and depression. Against the shrinks advice, she stopped taking her medication, 18 months ago. She's tried and tested most, if not all of the head med's, which seem to do litttle more than "take the edge off things". Although she feels like she's moved forward with respect to losing the croutch of her med's, she isn't at all well. Just today the poor girl rang me in a pretty desperate state. My own research, suprisingly said 2yrs and beyond to overcome the withdrawl/aftermath of these medications? So I'm not sure is she's suffering the return - in full force of her illness, or withdrawl from the med's? I guess a combination of the two sounds prudent.

A couple of years ago I took her to Los. Unfortunatley the timing of the holiday coincided with one of her "bad" patches and she had, what I would describe, the closest thing to a breakdown in a Phuket hotel room. She's tried and tested numerous alternative therapies in the uk - fruitless in terms of relief. She has an interest in Buddism and insists that her pain is karmic - in the phsyco/spiritual sense. Could this be true?? My fear is that one day she will do the "ultimate" to end her torment, and I've always had this horrible feeling this is her destiny. Anyone can share experiences/advice. You think a return to the med's is a good idea?

It is never a good idea to get off the medication without your doctor knowing it, especially not when you are in a fragile mental state.

I don't know your sister's whole story and I am not a qualified medical doctor so you should not take my advice too seriously, but I would like to share some personal experience and opinions for what it's worth to you or anyone else.

My first general advice is that your sister should try to get off any and all drugs she is on. I have found just normal grass/haschisch can mess things up for people who are mentally fragile. In fact, I believe cannabis to be a major contributing factor to the depressions and anxiety attacks I have seen in two of my close friends. They were fine before they started using cannabis heavily. The problem with grass smokers is that they are extremely reluctant to acknowledge that grass might have any negative side effects at all, and whereas one of my friends has sought help, the other one is still using cannabis daily and is not very happy with his life.

The basic mechanism of most illegal drugs is the (over)stimulation of the dopamin system, for which you pay a price afterwards... The regrets and gloom of a whisky hangover are a result of the mood boost you had the night before. After a period on grass, irritability, forgetfulness and sometimes anxiety/depression are common side effects. You have taken out a lot from your dopamin account at once, and it takes time to reset the balance. Heavy users of MDMA deplete almost all their dopamin and thereafter have a life in more or less perpetual gloom to look forward to.

Whether your sister's pain is karmic or not is kind of beside the point. If karma is an absolute law of the universe as some believe, then the use of anti-depressants are also part of her karma, for better or for worse.

I was on citalopram for 6 months, and my withdrawal period lasted for about two months, did not really change my mood that much but caused obvious physical symptoms such as micro-delayed perception (turning my head rapidly from point A to B, I would experience a minor blackout as my nervous system struggled to keep up with things, a very eerie feeling, but it gradually subsided).

I am not sure from where you got your figure of 2 years' withdrawal. That is certainly nothing I have ever heard in connection with SSRIs (Selective Serotonine Reuptake Inhibitors) such as citalopram.

Whatever your sister's gloom stems from, I suggest she contacts a psychiatrist again. If she could not cope with her previous one, help her find somebody else. It is vital to be treated by somebody you have confidence in.

[Thetyim]

Has she ever tried Zoloft.

I know someone who has been using it for 2 years.

Seems to have worked well with his OCD

[John K]

OCD is very tricky. However medications don’t fix the problem, they only sweep it under the carpet. Plus they make your whole world vanilla as said in this thread. I have dealt with OCD many times, but I admit it is the most difficult therapy I do. The problem is identifying all the elements that cause the problem. Often the OCD stops only to return a month later. That happens because some new element that was not addressed becomes dominate. Once all the elements are found there is only a very small chance the OCD will return. The other thing is insurance companies push medications because it is cost effective. That does not mean it is the best therapy. The best thing to do is look at all the possible options and make a educated decision on what is best.

John Krukowski, C.H.

[lswalker]

My farang sister, a tormented poor soul, has been taking phsycriatric medication for a number of years for obsessive compulsive disorder and depression. Against the shrinks advice, she stopped taking her medication, 18 months ago. She's tried and tested most, if not all of the head med's, which seem to do litttle more than "take the edge off things". Although she feels like she's moved forward with respect to losing the croutch of her med's, she isn't at all well. Just today the poor girl rang me in a pretty desperate state. My own research, suprisingly said 2yrs and beyond to overcome the withdrawl/aftermath of these medications? So I'm not sure is she's suffering the return - in full force of her illness, or withdrawl from the med's? I guess a combination of the two sounds prudent.

A couple of years ago I took her to Los. Unfortunatley the timing of the holiday coincided with one of her "bad" patches and she had, what I would describe, the closest thing to a breakdown in a Phuket hotel room. She's tried and tested numerous alternative therapies in the uk - fruitless in terms of relief. She has an interest in Buddism and insists that her pain is karmic - in the phsyco/spiritual sense. Could this be true?? My fear is that one day she will do the "ultimate" to end her torment, and I've always had this horrible feeling this is her destiny. Anyone can share experiences/advice. You think a return to the med's is a good idea?

Hello,

I read your message and I realize it is late, but late is better than never.

I've been getting very active in the anti-psyciatric area. I'm well aware of the effects that the drugs can have and have personally dealt with kids and adults who have been on their drugs. They are nothing but bad news as far as I'm concerned. I have actual refrences and sources for data, but it would be too much for this message.

Drugs don't work and don't solve any problems they only numb or dull the feelings as well as the person.

There is a center in Bangkok on Pan Rd., in Silom. There number is 02-637-6929. It's a Dianetics Center and it may be able to help. I'm currently in the US and I can see the awful outcome of these drugs in our schools and society.

Sincerely,

Kayne Walker

[endure]

My farang sister, a tormented poor soul, has been taking phsycriatric medication for a number of years for obsessive compulsive disorder and depression. Against the shrinks advice, she stopped taking her medication, 18 months ago. She's tried and tested most, if not all of the head med's, which seem to do litttle more than "take the edge off things". Although she feels like she's moved forward with respect to losing the croutch of her med's, she isn't at all well. Just today the poor girl rang me in a pretty desperate state. My own research, suprisingly said 2yrs and beyond to overcome the withdrawl/aftermath of these medications? So I'm not sure is she's suffering the return - in full force of her illness, or withdrawl from the med's? I guess a combination of the two sounds prudent.

A couple of years ago I took her to Los. Unfortunatley the timing of the holiday coincided with one of her "bad" patches and she had, what I would describe, the closest thing to a breakdown in a Phuket hotel room. She's tried and tested numerous alternative therapies in the uk - fruitless in terms of relief. She has an interest in Buddism and insists that her pain is karmic - in the phsyco/spiritual sense. Could this be true?? My fear is that one day she will do the "ultimate" to end her torment, and I've always had this horrible feeling this is her destiny. Anyone can share experiences/advice. You think a return to the med's is a good idea?

Hello,

I read your message and I realize it is late, but late is better than never.

I've been getting very active in the anti-psyciatric area. I'm well aware of the effects that the drugs can have and have personally dealt with kids and adults who have been on their drugs. They are nothing but bad news as far as I'm concerned. I have actual refrences and sources for data, but it would be too much for this message.

Drugs don't work and don't solve any problems they only numb or dull the feelings as well as the person.

There is a center in Bangkok on Pan Rd., in Silom. There number is 02-637-6929. It's a Dianetics Center and it may be able to help. I'm currently in the US and I can see the awful outcome of these drugs in our schools and society.

Sincerely,

Kayne Walker

Is Dianetics not a part of the organisation known as Scientology?

[endure]

I suggest that your sister obtains all the books written by Dr Claire Weekes, an Australian doctor. These books explain in the simplest possible lay terms the causes of panic attacks, anxiety and obsessions and also the way to a cure which I know, from my own personal experience, to work. I believe that a DVD has also been made of a series of talks she did on the BBC in the 80s. I've PMed you the address of her website. I have no connection with Dr Weekes other than someone who has benefited enormously from her knowledge and compassion.

cheers

[endure]

Siamsam - I tried to send you a PM but you're set not to receive them. If you want the address for Dr Weeke's site please alter your config and then PM me.

[Maestro]

Is Dianetics not a part of the organisation known as Scientology?

It seems to be so. Good of you to have raised the question.

--

Maestro

[leisurely]

Maybe Siamsam has left the building. The OP was October 2004.......................

[fxm88]

Sincerely,

Kayne Walker

Say "Hi" to Xenu for us!

http://www.xenu.net/

[Jessy]

If your sister was better off on medication, then she should be on it. I disagree with people who say that medication doesn't solve the underlying problem of depression. That may be the case with some people, but for others medication can be very beneficial - especially if there is a genetic reason for a chemical imbalance in the brain, such as with seratonine. There are different types of SSRI's. Zoloft (Sertraline) has the least side effects, so I believe, compared to fluoxetine and prozac. Some peope take anti-depressant medication for years, sometimes tens of years, but if it helps, then stay on them. It is also not true that people feel neither happy or unhappy. This tends not to be the case with SSRI'S, although, again, it might be the case with some people. Of course, it is important to try and identify environmental and pychological causes of depression, and to try and do something about it, but in the meantime, if it takes away the sadness, mood swings or anti-social behaviour associated with depression, then why not take it. Look up the website MEDLINE and MEDPLUS. There you will find scientifically and medically proven papers and research on almost any medical subject. Do a search there. Good luck.

[Sheryl]

Nowhere near enough information provided to be able to give detailed advice. You seem to indicate that she suffers from both depression and OCD. The same drugs (SSRIs) are effective for both conditions, although will often be of most benefiot when combined with other therapies (cognitive-behavioral therapy especially useful for OCD).

Given the ver limited infor available all I can say is the following:

1. Antidepressents cannot and should not be stopped abruptly, and it is very, very dangerous for a depressed person to go off them unsupervised. Not all depressed people can successfully go off medication --- and, provided the medication is working, needing to take anti-depressents is not as bad a thing as some people seem to assume. It certainly shouldn't be regarded as a "crutch" anymore than insulin is a "crutch" for diabetics.

2. It does not sound as if your sister has found the right doctor yet....as indicated by the implication that she hasn't benefitted all that much from various treatments and meds, and the fact that she doesn't seem to have a doctor or therapist she feels comfortable with now to either help her get off meds or help her accept that she needs them, whichever is appropriate for her particular situation.

Since both depression and OCD generally respond well to medication I am inclined to think that either she is being mis-managed medically or there are confounding factors you haven't mentioned (alcohol? illicit drug use? additional diagnoses?).

I think you are quite right to be concerned and should try to get her under a doctor's care...a new doctor if her previous ones didn't seem to help her much. If you let us know where she is living, perhaps some more specific suggestions about providers can be made.

A course of Vippasana meditation often helps people like your sister but should not be attempted until her condition has stabilized.

Lastly I have to disagree with the comment about anti-depressants dulling all emotion. that has not been my experience, either personally (I have been on Zoloft for hormone-related depression for about 10 years now) or with others. What is true is that these drugs are among the most inaccurateley used drugs around, in terms of the numbers of people who need them but don't take them and the numbers who take them but don't need them. True clinical depression is utterly unlike the normal feeling of depression that everyone experiences from time to time. When a person who truly suffers from clinical depression takes an SSRI, the pathological depression -- a feeling I can best explain as like a dark heavy cloud pushing down one your chest and making it impossible to move -- lifts away, leaving the normal moods intact. You still feel the ups and downs, just not that unnatural type of depression which is, as I said, not at all the same as the sad feelings everyone has at times.

However, because there is so much misunderstanding of what constitutes a depressive disorder, people who don't have one often end up taking these drugs, in which case they may indeed find their emotions blunted. The neurochemistry of genuinely depressed people differs from that of those who are not clinically depressed, hence the difference in response to drugs which act on chemical neurotransmitters.

I have no idea what your sister's diagnosis is, but it certainly sounds like it either hasn't been correctly made or hasn't been properly managed so far.

Try to get her under the care of a qualified psychiatrist or psychologist. It can indeed take a long time and lots of trial and error to find the right one, but it is important to keep trying.

Feel free to PM me if you like with more detailed info and maybe I can advise further.

[karenbenn]

Everyone is different, so it is usually trial and error until you find the antidepressant that will work for you. Some people get relief from depression with combo of two antidepressants with different mechanisms of action (e.g. Wellbutrin+Effexor).

Besides antidepressants, there are different therapies (psychotherapy, light therapy). I totally agree with Sheryl about doctor. She needs a qualified specialist to find the appropriate treatment.

[sobe]

I found the best things to do are fresh air , exercise and support

http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/Dep...ep_exercise.htm

"In twenty years," he warns, "a huge percentage of the population will be damaged by these medications and the recipients will have real mental disorders caused by the drugs."

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/artic...sri-secret.html

Edited March 8, 2007 by sobe

[lswalker]

My farang sister, a tormented poor soul, has been taking phsycriatric medication for a number of years for obsessive compulsive disorder and depression. Against the shrinks advice, she stopped taking her medication, 18 months ago. She's tried and tested most, if not all of the head med's, which seem to do litttle more than "take the edge off things". Although she feels like she's moved forward with respect to losing the croutch of her med's, she isn't at all well. Just today the poor girl rang me in a pretty desperate state. My own research, suprisingly said 2yrs and beyond to overcome the withdrawl/aftermath of these medications? So I'm not sure is she's suffering the return - in full force of her illness, or withdrawl from the med's? I guess a combination of the two sounds prudent.

A couple of years ago I took her to Los. Unfortunatley the timing of the holiday coincided with one of her "bad" patches and she had, what I would describe, the closest thing to a breakdown in a Phuket hotel room. She's tried and tested numerous alternative therapies in the uk - fruitless in terms of relief. She has an interest in Buddism and insists that her pain is karmic - in the phsyco/spiritual sense. Could this be true?? My fear is that one day she will do the "ultimate" to end her torment, and I've always had this horrible feeling this is her destiny. Anyone can share experiences/advice. You think a return to the med's is a good idea?

Hello,

I read your message and I realize it is late, but late is better than never.

I've been getting very active in the anti-psyciatric area. I'm well aware of the effects that the drugs can have and have personally dealt with kids and adults who have been on their drugs. They are nothing but bad news as far as I'm concerned. I have actual refrences and sources for data, but it would be too much for this message.

Drugs don't work and don't solve any problems they only numb or dull the feelings as well as the person.

There is a center in Bangkok on Pan Rd., in Silom. There number is 02-637-6929. It's a Dianetics Center and it may be able to help. I'm currently in the US and I can see the awful outcome of these drugs in our schools and society.

Sincerely,

Kayne Walker

Is Dianetics not a part of the organisation known as Scientology?

I have found an organization that deals specifically with helping people on Psyciatric Drugs. It's called the Road Back.

the website is called TheRoadBack.org. Check it out. I think it is very successful and I like their methods.