Finding The Right Present For Gay Thai Guy

[peter991]

A few months ago (I think it was in this Gay sub-forum) there was a discussion about a farang who bought his Thai bf a mobile phone. He alleged the Thai guy did a major dummy-spit when his present was not what he was expecting ... loss of face and all that.

This is a bit different. My Thai is a uni educated guy, who works for a government departmentand is quite independent. I would like to bring him a small gift - something that he couldn't buy in Thailand.

In the past I brought stuffed/toy animals (koala and kangaroo). He liked them - but as we get to know each other better - he says that these are 'toys for children.'

I am glad he is honest with me and tells me the truth - not what he thinks I want to hear. That, to me, is the sign of a mature person. I achieved this by informing him I am farang and I have no problems 'losing face' so please always tell me the truth.

I found a gift at a local store - thought I had better check first. I was given a resounding 'NO' to my suggestion. I think the best way is to let him pick something out when we are shopping and pay for it myself - so it is MY gift which HE chose.

Any comments? I know most gay guys would be grateful for ANY gift, but how much do they want the gift?

Peter

[sbk]

Well, I don't know if gay guys are that different from straight guys when it comes to the gift issue, so if you'd like, I'd be willing to share my gift giving experiences with my husband.

[BigSnake]

Why not pay a visit to Patong area and pay a nice sexual toy. Just a thought!! To be on the SAFE side why not a Gift Cert to Robsion or some other nice shopping center that offer them.

[toptuan]

Gay guys like to wear something on them that reminds them that they belong to you. Two big hits I've seen were: a plain gold ring (inscribed inside with something personal) hung from a light gold chain for wearing around the neck. Another one, similar to that, substituted (for the ring) a diamond-encrusted (or any jewel-encrusted) monogram representing your first or last name. Granted, you can get these in Thailand, too, but the meaning behind both seemed to deepen the value of the gift.

If he's not "out" he can wear the main symbol of his affection discretely under his shirt without probing questions being asked. If he's "out"...well...he can wear it plastered to his forehead!

[Ijustwannateach]

A gift is a gift. It's quite normal for someone to expect age-appropriate gifts and drop hints about that if it doesn't seem that the giver understands- so fair enough if he wants to hint to you that he's a grown man and doesn't need stuffed animal toys. On the other hand- if you are purchasing age-appropriate, job-appropriate things- like a tie or other article of clothing, or something for the home- a gift is a gift! It's supposed to be something that reflects on the giver, and something the giver chooses. I've had some presents that I never expected to receive and would never have bought for myself, but later I learned to appreciate them as a result.

I'd say that you should give him whatever you want to give him... if he's unhappy with it, you'll find out- but if he's unhappy too often, that reflects very poorly on him. If he *needs* or *wants* something and wants to ask you for it, that's a different matter from a gift and needs to be handled differently.

Warning signs: requests for expensive jewelry or electronics.

"S"

[sbk]

Gotta agree with IJWT, buying gifts for a man should be about what interests that guy. DH is an avid fisherman, so I can always get him fishing gear and he is happy. What hobbies does he have? a tie is kind of boring, IJWT What interests outside of work? Does he like to read? Alot of Thai people won't buy themselves books but enjoy them as a gift.

Jewelry should be, IMO, a special gift. Something that shows that you are making a statement, if you aren't making a statement then I would avoid jewelry.

[Ijustwannateach]

Yeah, yeah, I hate getting ties as gifts too, but I never have to buy my own, either!

[phayao]

May I suggest some more personal gifts?

A nice photo of yourself, or of you two, in a nice frame that matches the decoration of his apartment.

A lock of your hair in a small silver or gold case.

A photo album with pictures of trips you have done together.

[kek]

Gay guys like to wear something on them that reminds them that they belong to you.

This says an awful lot about your attitude towards relationships and who 'wears the wallet' in your household.

Back to the OP's question:

I like to bring 2 gifts: One serious gift and one joke gift. I can see from his bio. that he's Australian. Why not bring him something quintessentially Oz?

Serious Gifts: Some excellent wine? A piece of Opal? Aboriginal art? CD's of Joan Sutherland?

Joke Gifts: Kangaroo scrotum purse? (yeah, not much of a joke for the Roo, I know), Crocs or some other piece of gawdy beach clothing? Have a look round the gift shops in your local mall or at the airport. They always have some novelty that brings a smile

[Kaojai]

This is a bit different. My Thai is a uni educated guy, who works for a government departmentand is quite independent. I would like to bring him a small gift - something that he couldn't buy in Thailand.

In the past I brought stuffed/toy animals (koala and kangaroo). He liked them - but as we get to know each other better - he says that these are 'toys for children.'

I don't think there's any correct choice of gifts that would be appropriate for all " Gay Thai Guys" or all straight Russians or all Italian Eunuchs. If the guy qualifies as your boy friend, then you really ought to know enough about him as an individual to know what would be a fitting gift. For some guys a romantic, sentimental choice might work best and for others that would generate a "dummy-spit." The value of the gift is greatly enhanced when it demonstrates how well you know him and what things are important to him.

For some guys, regardless of whether or not they're gay, something practical like a mobile phone or clothing might be just the thing (especially if they can easily be exchanged for a different model, color or style). For others, something totally impractical but loaded with sentiment would be best ... although from personal experience I think Thais prefer something with practical or intrinsic value.

I recall years ago some farang sap departing Thailand and presenting his Thai friend with flowers. The flowers were immediately dumped with the unpleasant observation, " I can't eat flowers."

If you're really uncertain, take him out shopping for something, suggesting a price range. Sounds crass to western ears, but probably music to a Thai guy's hearing. I just bought a new mobile for my friend because I knew he needed one and then we carried it back to the shop (still virginally intact in its box) to exchange for the model he wanted. He was pleased that I chose something he wanted/needed and I was pleased that we (eventually) got just the one he wanted.

[JonnieB]

I find cash or gift certs are always readily acceptable. And you can calibrate your gift to express the importance or non-importance of the relationship to you.

[Scott]

I don't buy gifts for Thai people. I've never gotten so much as a thank you and so that ended it. Not even for the other half--he gets nothing for his birthday, but a 'happy birthday' in the morning, nothing for Christmas and nothing for Songkran. Make no mistake, there are plenty of things given and paid for but not as 'gifts' per se. This has been pervasive in the nearly 20 years I've been here, so I just don't get them anything. It must be something cultural about not saying thank you, because I hear it so seldom regarding gifts.

In my culture, when a gift is given the response is a thank you--even if it's a pile of crap or something you absolutely don't want. Gifts are about the thought behind it and being remembered. If I gave somebody a small toy and they said 'toys are for kids', I would simply take it back and give it to one of the kids next door.

[PeaceBlondie]

Scott, I prefer to give from the heart, to the other person's heart. If they do not say 'Thank you," because of cultural conditioning, that is not half as bad as the millions of Western dads who never said "I love you, my son." My boyfriend expects a sizable present on his birthday, even if he settles for forgiveness of a debt he owes me. My friend with his sammi noi says that #2 dropped a big hint today that his birthday was coming soon. And my friend and I do get birthday presents from our lovers.

[cophen]

If you give a gift and expect a 'thank you' as of right, you're not giving it for the right reasons. Gifts are like charity, they should be given altruistically without the expectation of any return.

[TIPSYBOB]

Here is how my BF (12 years relation) and I deal with this situation, and others.

Every Christmas/New Year, Valentine, birthdays or other occasions we put in a pot, suggestions for a gift.

The item suggested and picked at random and kept secret, is the gift. No question asked. Size, color or style of the suggestion can be added.

We deal in the same fashion with places to go to for special occasions. Names of Bar, Restaurants or Hotels for dining goes in another pot. No more UP2U which was always a subject of useless discussion.

Once that place has been frequented it is taken out of the pot. Others can be added.

It is working out.

I came up with these practical ideas after I bought so many unused shirts, jackets, ties, perfume etc. because they were not the right style, color or other reasons, with the deception looks.

When I first met him 13 years ago I help him move to a new room around Valentine. His birthday is 2 days later. Seeing that there was no refrigerator nor a microwave in his new room I bought both. I was accused of not being romantic..... He was expecting flowers, chocolate or some other romantic gift.

What can I say, I am a practical kind of guy. I would rather get a can opener than a tie that I will never wear.

We have now been living together 12 years. The microwave came back but not the refrigerator. TIT

[popshirt]

We deal in the same fashion with places to go to for special occasions. Names of Bar, Restaurants or Hotels for dining goes in another pot. No more UP2U which was always a subject of useless discussion.

Good idea. Most of us soon learn that UP2U really means "up to you to guess what I really want / to do". And it is a waste of time.

[PeaceBlondie]

I usually turn that phrase back on boyfriend: "Oh no, Mr. Thai man, up to YOU! You decide."

In fact, I tell them that "up2U" is the slogan of a sex worker. That helps rid them of the phrase.

[Scott]

Yes, I am an a*sshole when it comes to gifts. No thank you--no further gifts. It's simple and it works well for me. I don't particularly like taking the time to go shopping to find that special something for someone who can't acknowledge it was given. I frequently pay for dinners, drinks, evenings out--I don't really consider them gifts and a thank you is nice. But shopping for something and not getting acknowledged doesn't cut it.

A thank you can be simple and it doesn't have to spoken--a wai, putting it on, an expression of how good it will look, or something.

[Steve2UK]

If you give a gift and expect a 'thank you' as of right, you're not giving it for the right reasons. Gifts are like charity, they should be given altruistically without the expectation of any return.

A fine principle - but I suspect 99.99% of us can't/don't sustain it in practice. For example: a beggar holds his cup out, you drop in a few coins and the beggar shows no reaction at all - not a nod or a wai or a smile - how do you feel about giving the same beggar something next week?

As someone (Anglo/German) who was brought up early on to know the value of when and how to say "please", "sorry" and "thank you" - I have to admit it still comes hard to me here in Thailand where I notice a widespread lack of all three. A few Thai relationships/liaisons along and I already notice that some Thai readily do it and many don't. And it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the extent of their exposure to "western" values.

And, if it's not straying too far ....... is it such a forlorn hope to expect a Thai partner to show some developing awareness and/or understanding of my values as much as I try to take account of his?

[Scott]

Steve2UK: I agree with you. I think some of us have a different idea of what exactly is a gift and what is charity. I consider myself very charitable. I have assisted friends with medical bills--and amounting to a hefty sum of money. This is because they are people IN NEED and I have some sense or feeling of responsibility for my fellow man. I also have for a number of years helped (medical and educational expenses) for a now deceased co-worker's children. They are HIV positive and their situation is very dire. I don't get thank you's from them and I don't expect it--they are still quite young and deserve to be taken care of.

When I attend a Thai function, I am (within reason) expected to behave according to Thai cultural norms. If I can't, I don't attend. I expect the same courtesy in some fashion from those who wish to participate in my culture, including gift giving. Sorry, but most Thais pay no attention to birthdays and Christmas isn't really a big event here. Gift giving is, by and large, expected of foreigners. In return, I expect acknowledgement. If I don't get it, I don't pout or don't get upset, but I don't give any further gifts. It's that simple. Doesn't mean I wouldn't help them out, when in need, but birthday presents are out of the equation.

[Steve2UK]

.............Gift giving is, by and large, expected of foreigners. In return, I expect acknowledgement. If I don't get it, I don't pout or don't get upset, but I don't give any further gifts. It's that simple. Doesn't mean I wouldn't help them out, when in need, but birthday presents are out of the equation.

Agreed - but I think it's also widely expected of any well-off partner/would-be partner, Thai or farang. My understanding (at least among straight couples) is that the value of the gift in Thailand is generally taken as an expression of the keen-ness as well as implied status of the "suitor".

"In my culture, when a gift is given the response is a thank you--even if it's a pile of crap or something you absolutely don't want. Gifts are about the thought behind it and being remembered. If I gave somebody a small toy and they said 'toys are for kids', I would simply take it back and give it to one of the kids next door".

Also have to agree with you on the above [apart from anything else, I love the logical symmetry of it] - but I suspect we're swimming against a powerful tide in trying to apply it.

For myself, I've never liked the Christmas "season of goodwill" notion [what about the other 360-odd days?] and the "gift" expectations that come with it - therefore I like that there's no equivalent festival in LOS. I probably will still do something for a birthday for someone special to me, but I'm mainly into ongoing nam jai that is not much affected by the calendar............

On a lighter note [and maybe also closer to the spirit of the original question] I would advise against giving more than one thing. As the old music hall joke goes....... "My wife gave me two ties for my birthday - a red one and a blue one. Of course, I went straight to the bedroom to put one on. I came back wearing the blue one. 'Oh', she says, 'so you don't like the red one.' Boom boom .

[TopChinese]

dam_n.. no wonder why my farang bf got real upset when I gave him a 14" butt plug. Should have brought him that ring from Cartier instead.

[orchis]

A two-headed butt plug , nonetheless... ideal for couples.

[popshirt]

dam_n.. no wonder why my farang bf got real upset when I gave him a 14" butt plug. Should have brought him that ring from Cartier instead.

Maybe he thought you were sending him a message. There is no substitute for the real thing.

[Scott]

There is a difference between gifts and necessities. In this case the ring from Cartier is a gift, the butt plug, perhaps a necessity!

[Scott]

In the case of the butt plug, the gift might be helping him put it on (in)!

[netrix]

I don't buy gifts for Thai people. I've never gotten so much as a thank you and so that ended it. Not even for the other half--he gets nothing for his birthday, but a 'happy birthday' in the morning, nothing for Christmas and nothing for Songkran. Make no mistake, there are plenty of things given and paid for but not as 'gifts' per se. This has been pervasive in the nearly 20 years I've been here, so I just don't get them anything. It must be something cultural about not saying thank you, because I hear it so seldom regarding gifts.

In my culture, when a gift is given the response is a thank you--even if it's a pile of crap or something you absolutely don't want. Gifts are about the thought behind it and being remembered. If I gave somebody a small toy and they said 'toys are for kids', I would simply take it back and give it to one of the kids next door.

I think perhaps if you're not getting the appreciation you want when you

give a gift, then maybe it's a reflection on the company you're keeping,

or more likely a reflection of yourself. I assure you it's not "cultural" as

you suggest. I get thank-yous for every gift i give, even the cheesy

"I Love NY" t-shirt from the airport or the other joke gifts. I get hugs and

kisses for silly little presents and sincere gifts all the time. And I've

received more gifts from Thai friends than I've given, for which I'm

always very appreciative.

You get what you give in life. Maybe not immediately, or from the one you

give to. But if you haven't given a gift in 20 years, then maybe it's time

to "give" it a try.

[Kaojai]

I think perhaps if you're not getting the appreciation you want when you

give a gift, then maybe it's a reflection on the company you're keeping,

or more likely a reflection of yourself. I assure you it's not "cultural" as

you suggest. I get thank-yous for every gift i give, even the cheesy

"I Love NY" t-shirt from the airport or the other joke gifts.

That does seem a little strange to me too.

I know in daily dealings with everyone from waiters and store clerks to family members, farangs (at least the polite ones) are apt to throw "thank you" in rather freely, often to the point that it has become meaningless, and I know that it is not the norm for Thais to do this repeatedly (although they can certainly dispense "krap" or "Ka" liberally) . But when it comes to gift giving or doing something a little special I've always received some form of thank you.

Although I don't give gifts in order to generate expressions of gratitude, I suppose I would be a little put out if they were received with indifference. I don't think this is normal behavior any more in Thailand than elsewhere.

For example: a beggar holds his cup out, you drop in a few coins and the beggar shows no reaction at all - not a nod or a wai or a smile - how do you feel about giving the same beggar something next week?

I don't think this is a valid comparison. I don't give something to someone who is blind, crippled, etc for the same reasons I give gifts to a friend. I might be a little put off if the beggar snarled at me or whacked me with his white cane, but I wouldn't necessarily worry about getting some form of thanks. Of course, if you're dropping in only a few coins, especially in Thailand, any "thank you" might justifiably be tinged with sarcasm.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Kaojai

[Scott]

It's nice to hear that there are a lot of people who are pleased with their efforts at gift giving. I certainly don't mean to imply that all Thai people are in any way ungrateful, because they aren't. I don't consider giving someone a tip in a restaurant a gift, but grateful, they most certainly are. I think some of this has to do with relative social position. Poorer folks and younger folks are more attuned to expressing gratitute. As people climb the social scale the thank you's become more strained, in my observation.

I would never judge a person by their reaction to being given a gift, but whether there is a second gift depends on two things, one being whether there is a thank you.

I am glad that many people on this forum have experiences that are different from mine and I am also glad they take the time to try and find the right gift and get whatever they expect (or don't expect) in return.

[Ijustwannateach]

Generally speaking I've had no problems with 'thank-you' 's, the problems come when people start asking for over-the-top gifts afterwards!!!

(I usually respond with a much more modest gift and a suggestion that the request must have been a joke... I usually don't have to say anything more!!!)

"S"