Thaivisa-members For Eternity

[AdultGolfer]

Hi all,

I recently tried to quit this Forum - to delete my profile. It turned out to be impossible.

First I searched and searched and searched ALL the options on this site, but I found nothing - there was no option to delete my own profile anywhere. Then I contacted ThaiVisa Support -- and they told me that they do not do this, they just plain never delete anyone's profile/account EVER - even if the member asks for it.

Please understand that I am not asking TV to delete all my posts on this forum - just my profile/account/membership.

Why won't they do this? It probably has to do with advertising revenue. When TV promotes itself to potential advertisers the most important statistic must be the number of hits - pr day/week/month/year --- but the number of members is also important.

Or am I wrong?

TV Support told me to just log out and never log in again - but this is NOT the same as deleting my Profile.

So we are all members for life - and beyond, probably! Because there must be some, not many, but some TV-members that are now dead and have been for months or even years.

Why do I want out? That's not really relevant to this thread. The point is that it is impossible.

Let's hope this thread is allowed by the Moderators.

-AG

[taxexile]

that question raise some interesting points about the posts and who holds the copyright to them.

can other media e.g. newspapers , authors etc. lift thai visa posts and use them in their own publications , or do they need thai visas permission or the posters permission ?

[garro]

How weird taxexile, I was actually thinking about this very same subject while having a dump earlier.

How would it be possible to copyright something like a forum post?

I don't think it is helped that we don't use our own names.

Mind you, I don't think anyone will be making much money out of many of the words and ideas posted here.

[britmaveric]

Well I think when you signed up for the account - TV has implicit right to do whatever it wants with content provided. That being said deleting your account creates problems for the posts itself - unregistered member ect. Not a big deal and I'm afraid you are stuck with us.

Edited April 18, 2008 by britmaveric

[Tywais]

Moved to Forum Support.

[YoungFarang13]

you own the copyright to anything you post here, not tv.

[garro]

Well I think when you signed up for the account - TV has implicit right to do whatever it wants with content provided. That being said deleting your account creates problems for the posts itself - unregistered member ect. Not a big deal and I'm afraid you are stuck with us.

So basically Thai Visa could release a book (pamphlet?) containing all the wise things that britmaveric said over the years and they wouldn't need to pay you a penny??

[britmaveric]

I'm afraid so garro - I'm sure the wisdom spouted by me in book form could be as big as War and Peace and just as boring.

[Plus]

It's a quesiton to the whole web2.0 concept - who owns user generated content? Who can put up a book with quotes/jokes/real life stories/blog content/illustrations and sell it?

Sounds difficult, but I think the answer is that no one in his right mind would PAY for such staff.

[garro]

It's a quesiton to the whole web2.0 concept - who owns user generated content? Who can put up a book with quotes/jokes/real life stories/blog content/illustrations and sell it?

Sounds difficult, but I think the answer is that no one in his right mind would PAY for such staff.

I actually mentioned this on a different thread. I do think that if ThaiVisa produced a book say 'The Best of Thai Visa' people would buy it. Who you might ask? Well for starters the hundred of posters whose quotes would be in the book. They might even buy more than one copy. Also look at the numbers of people who view the site. I reckon you would have no bother selling a few thousand copies - which is good for a book released in Thailand. An easy 1,00,000 THB profit at least.

Edited April 18, 2008 by garro

[britmaveric]

Sell it to the Lonely Planet Crowd? They will buy anything....

[Kerryd]

I would try sending a PM (Private Message) to one of the Admin Staff (george, huski, Totster, Dr Pat Pong, etc), though I'm not sure profiles ever get fully deleted (for a couple of reasons).

If you have any personal information on your profile page, you could delete it beforehand. If you've made any posts that you think you may regret in the future, you could ask one of the Moderating staff to delete the content of those posts.

Other than that, the simplest thing to do is as Support already mentioned. Log out, delete any links you have to the site, and forget it exists.

Why is it so important to have your profile deleted, especially as there doesn't appear to be anything significant (identity-wise) on it ?

[Snickers]

I think if you open an account then you must accept the terms and conditions.The posts you make belong to the website but I am sure you can deactivate your profile if you don't want to take part in the forums anymore.It is interesting that if you google your profile name it will link back here as I just tried it.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Snickers

[garro]

"You can check-out anytime you want, but you can never leave"

Welcome to ThaiVisa

Edited April 18, 2008 by garro

[LaoPo]

that question raise some interesting points about the posts and who holds the copyright to them.

can other media e.g. newspapers , authors etc. lift thai visa posts and use them in their own publications , or do they need thai visas permission or the posters permission ?

Indeed.

It is a very vague, difficult and misty subject: -copyright-.

I encountered the same problem before when I was 'removed' from a Forum 2 years ago. That was not a Thai forum but a forum in my own country.

I was a member and the main financial sponsor as well. The 'boss' of the forum was a small dictator, hiding himself behind a facade of friendly "I know best" attitude whilst I was trying to boost the Forum with income and even create an income for 1 or 2 people (but not me) because the Forum was lacking financial funds and advertising income.

He couldn't stand criticism, not even positive, so in a one-man show, I was removed from the Forum which in fact was a foundation (not commercial)

The point was the content of my -substantial number of- posts which I wished to be removed from the website. In fact they promised to do so but never did...

I didn't pursue the case because I didn't want to hire expensive copyright lawyers and spend a lot of money. In an initial meeting with a Professor in this field I was told that I, no doubt, would have won the case but since the foundation didn't have any money, I didn't pursue. On a regular basis I still get PM's from other members but since I am 'removed' I can't have access or read them, of course.

Misty subject.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

......The posts you make belong to the website ......

Hohohoho.... not so fast...

There is something as intellectual property. Your words are your words and they can never belong to anyone else but yourself. That you publish them -for free- on an open forum doesn't mean they belong to a/the website or somebody else.

But...it's a misty subject, copyright, and food for lawyers.

LaoPo

[Snickers]

I am not a lawyer but there is such a thing as 'free will'.If by your 'free will' you choose to accept the terms and conditions and be made thus a member of a website then these belong to the website.It is a kind of contract.You can always blog your views and they belong to you on your own blog,a website is different.

I want to question why people would want to delete their membership?

[Snickers]

I mean anything you write by your free will belongs to the website.

[Plus]

It's a quesiton to the whole web2.0 concept - who owns user generated content? Who can put up a book with quotes/jokes/real life stories/blog content/illustrations and sell it?

Sounds difficult, but I think the answer is that no one in his right mind would PAY for such staff.

I actually mentioned this on a different thread. I do think that if ThaiVisa produced a book say 'The Best of Thai Visa' people would buy it. Who you might ask? Well for starters the hundred of posters whose quotes would be in the book. They might even buy more than one copy. Also look at the numbers of people who view the site. I reckon you would have no bother selling a few thousand copies - which is good for a book released in Thailand. An easy 1,00,000 THB profit at least.

What you describe sounds more like a souvenir than actual book.

I was speaking of the world wide trend - Internet content is free, you only pay for accessing it, be it an ISP or a private torrent tracker or usenet servers, or even TV visa FAQs printed and indexed for quick reference - it's just an easier access to otherwise free information.

[Plus]

People can post same ideas on several boards and their own blogs. Who exactly owns copyright on them in that case?

The whole concept is outdated and needs major paradigm shift.

[sbk]

I am not a lawyer but there is such a thing as 'free will'.If by your 'free will' you choose to accept the terms and conditions and be made thus a member of a website then these belong to the website.It is a kind of contract.You can always blog your views and they belong to you on your own blog,a website is different.

I want to question why people would want to delete their membership?

Usually because they've gotten in trouble for breaking one of the forum rules that they agreed to follow when they signed up.

[AdultGolfer]

Usually because they've gotten in trouble for breaking one of the forum rules that they agreed to follow when they signed up.

Yes! I am a bad boy! Now, please kick my ass off this Forum!

-AG

[Guest Reimar]

You can't delete the membership and even not cancel completely. There two ways you can go: 1. ask the Support or Admin for to suspend you account definitive or 2. get banned! You also has to ask for to delete you e-mail address so you don't get more news. Both of that 2 ways will prohibit you from open an new account.

The reasons why your account can't deleted complete is not because of copyright but about to hold you responsible for all what you have written and posted an Thaivisa. Read the forum rules and you know what I'm talking about.

So please contact support or Admin and ask for exactly for what you want.

Cheers.

[taxexile]

The reasons why your account can't deleted complete is not because of copyright but about to hold you responsible for all what you have written and posted an Thaivisa. Read the forum rules and you know what I'm talking about.

..... so if somebody gives incorrect advice in , say , the health forum , and someone follows that advice with devastating results , can they sue the poster of the bad advice and / or thai visa for publishing that advice ?

there are many posts that blatantly defame politicians and the police force , could those organisations sue the poster and/or thai visa ?

will thai visa reveal information to the authorities that will help or enable an errant poster to be identified to the authorities ?

do thai visa moderators remove posts which could get thai visa or a particular poster into trouble , or just the posts that could get thai visa into trouble ?

[Guest Reimar]

The reasons why your account can't deleted complete is not because of copyright but about to hold you responsible for all what you have written and posted an Thaivisa. Read the forum rules and you know what I'm talking about.

..... so if somebody gives incorrect advice in , say , the health forum , and someone follows that advice with devastating results , can they sue the poster of the bad advice and / or thai visa for publishing that advice ?

Good question! If you read the forum rules you have the answer that TV wouldn't be resposible! Read this:

Considering the real-time nature of this bulletin board, it is not feasible for us to review messages or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that we can not actively monitor the contents of, and are not responsible for, any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of thaivisa.com or any entity associated with thaivisa.com. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by e-mail. We do have the ability to remove objectionable messages and will make every effort to do so if we determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process so please realize we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately. Misspellings and grammar errors are considered bad netiquette, please proof read your post by clicking on preview before posting. When a message is placed in any forum on thaivisa, you are granting a soft license to Thaivisa.com to use it.

As long as you follow the Forum Rules, there will be not anything in question

there are many posts that blatantly defame politicians and the police force , could those organisations sue the poster and/or thai visa ?

Same as above! If the official want to get the person who wrote what's in question TV maybe has to gave them even if TV don't want to do that!

will thai visa reveal information to the authorities that will help or enable an errant poster to be identified to the authorities ?

As above! It's depends on the existing law TV must do or not!

do thai visa moderators remove posts which could get thai visa or a particular poster into trouble , or just the posts that could get thai visa into trouble ?

Tv will remove all post which can bring either TV and/or the poster in trouble if that post's against the Forum Rules.

I gave this answers just as info. Please do NOT start a discussion about moderating issues which is against the forum rules.

If you like to get more detailed answer, please contact either an Admin or Support!

Cheers.

[YoungFarang13]

People can post same ideas on several boards and their own blogs. Who exactly owns copyright on them in that case?

The whole concept is outdated and needs major paradigm shift.

whatever you post, you own. of course if someone publishes it, youd have to be able to prove it is your stuff, but no, its not like TV owns the stuff posted here. You do.

Edited April 19, 2008 by YoungFarang13

[traveller5000]

I think TV is hosted in singapore so whatever the laws of singapore are regarding copyright, privacy, authories etc - not Thailand. AFAIK

[Guest Reimar]

I think TV is hosted in singapore so whatever the laws of singapore are regarding copyright, privacy, authories etc - not Thailand. AFAIK

Copyright Law is an international Law and not limited to an country.

Cheers.

[Chang_paarp]

I think TV is hosted in singapore so whatever the laws of singapore are regarding copyright, privacy, authories etc - not Thailand. AFAIK

Copyright Law is an international Law and not limited to an country.

Cheers.

I would strongly advise you check with an IP lawyer who is not from the USA if you believe that.

Copyright laws are the sovereign right of each country. ( As are patents, there is no such thing as a world wide patent.) There are conventions on Copyright that many countries adhere to but they are dependant on the local laws.

The laws in the US are very different to those in say Australia. For example in the US the author of any work is automatically the copyright holder. In Australia it depends on the type of work, a change made in the mid 90's prior to which the commissioner of any work was the copyright holder. Currently it is sometimes the commissioner and sometimes the author unless assigned in writing. Yes it is the domain of expensive lawyers. I have had this discussion with a company of lawyers who did not read my contract prior to a photo shoot. I wrote the contract and knew exactly what was there, and am a little familiar with Au copyright laws, they were not familiar with that area of law, it was an interesting discussion.

Edited April 19, 2008 by Chang_paarp

[Tywais]

Copyright laws are the sovereign right of each country. ( As are patents, there is no such thing as a world wide patent.) There are conventions on Copyright that many countries adhere to but they are dependant on the local laws.

You are right about that. The university sent me to a course on International and Thai Intellectual Property Rights law (terribly boring). Thailand belongs to two conventions but don't have that information at hand. Believe the Paris Convention and Berne Convention.

Berne Convention - WIPO