Recognized Degrees

[youwant2nome]

I need some advise...I am currently teaching in Thailand with out a degree. When I was back home in the US. I was enrolled in the University of Phoenix Distance Learning program (ON-LINE) I want to continue with finishing my degree so I will be able to teach here. I was told that the MOE does not recognize some Degrees that were taken On-line. Is this true? Is there a list that is used to determine which ones are recognized and those that aren't? I would like to know this before I re-enroll. I would hate to have spend the next 3 years knowing it was in vain. I do know the that University of Phoenix is a accredited University but I am not sure if that is good enough here. Can anyone offer some advise? Comments? Suggestions? Also.... I heard through the grape vine that there is this "Thai Culture Course" that is being offered its like a 3 day thing. That is helping the teachers with out degrees acquire their work permits and teaching licenses. Is this true? Your probably thinking to yourselves why are you trying going to get your degree if your already teaching, right? Ha Ha Ha... well Its better to be safe then sorry....It also makes easier and you have more options when looking for schools... The biggest reason is .. I WANT TO GET OUT OF THE JUNGLE !!!

Edited April 21, 2008 by youwant2nome

[Scott]

If the school is accredited, you should have no problem. The school your talking about isn't an On-Line University. It has a campus and the degree certainly shouldn't (and you might want to check) say anything about on-line.

I don't know about the Thai Cultural class helping you. I would be interested in what other people's experience is on this issue.

[otherstuff1957]

^ Yes, the U of Phoenix is a genuine, accredited school. They are heavily involved in distance/online learning, but I've never heard of their degrees being questioned. From all I've heard, their degrees would have the same validity that a UK/Aus Open University would have.

I think the schools that the MOE is rejecting are the Life Experience Degrees, where you send $500, write a short essay and get a "Genuine University Degree!".

[garro]

Some people do look down on online/distance learning degrees. In the same way that some people look down on those that have a degree from the 'new' universities. The only way to completely avoid this is to have a degree from Oxford/Cambridge/Harvard. The second part of my degree was completed by distance learning, and I haven't had any problems. I am also doing a post-graduate course by distance learning.

I did see one job, advertised on a different site, stating that nobody with an online degree should apply, but the outfit/school actually came across as peculiar lot. I think that as long as they are accredited you will be fine.

Edited April 22, 2008 by garro

[culicine]

Some people do look down on online/distance learning degrees. In the same way that some people look down on those that have a degree from the 'new' universities. The only way to completely avoid this is to have a degree from Oxford/Cambridge/Harvard. The second part of my degree was completed by distance learning, and I haven't had any problems. I am also doing a post-graduate course by distance learning.

I did see one job, advertised on a different site, stating that nobody with an online degree should apply, but the outfit/school actually came across as peculiar lot. I think that as long as they are accredited you will be fine.

Garro, i just received my testamur and transcript in the mail from UNE. Nowhere on it does it suggest it was done by distance. It's an exact copy of the internal student degree. I hope yours will be the same, to avoid any questions...

[Rionoir]

Since UoP also has actual campuses I doubt you'll ever have a problem... the online school is the same degree as the in-class degree.

[mizzi39]

I do not know of anyone who is currently teaching in Thailand having their degree verified by the MOE. The MOE simply does not have the man power to take on this task. The responsibility lies with the school that hired you and they are not in the habit of verifying degrees either. Unless your degree is an obvious fake like a Kinko's copy most schools could care less. The only reason why they want you to have a degree is to meet WP and visa requirements plain and simple, because the attitude here in the LOS is "white face native speaker" trumps qualifications.

[PeaceBlondie]

mizzie, not to be disagreeing with you, but we have regular posters here who are directly involved in the hiring process. They affirm that they have their own internal method of verifying degrees, so that they can honestly fulfill the statutory requirement of the employer. Some know how to send proper emails, phone schools when the overseas school is open, get waivers from the applicants granting permission to check for them, etc. Most Thai employers cannot or will not learn how to make the effort.

[DragonQuest]

I have an On-line degree as well, and it's worked for 3 years so far lol.

[ralphlsasser]

I also have an on-line degree from an accredited university and haven't had any problems.

[Ijustwannateach]

Schools that are serious about work permits are also getting serious about qualifications, because otherwise it is more and more trouble to keep someone. While the central government doesn't usually vet the degree, foreign staff at local schools are getting better and better at it (most cases I have heard of persons being outed as having fake degrees are caught by other foreigners).

"S"

[geriatrickid]

While the degree granting facility that will issue you with a diploma is accredited in the USA (by TEAC Teacher Education Accreditation Council), that accreditation gives a false sense of security. My understanding is that this is not the same as NCATE. NCATE is a coalition that represents the key stake holders, including the schoolboards, state officials that hire the teachers, and the colleges themselves, as well as several other important bodies. I believe there is a significant difference in requirements and I suggest you look at the accreditation process.

If I was sending my child to a school here, I would ask about the qualifications of my child's instructors and inquire about the universities these instructors attended. It is not difficult to make an inquiry of most western universities today as to whether or not someone graduated. Does it make a difference if someone has his/her BA from the U of Essex or Loyola, not really. However, if my child was being taught by someone with a U of Phoenix diploma, I'd be concerned. This comment is not intended as an insult. It's just how me, the consumer, thinks.

Sure, if you are out in the boonies or at one of the schools where there are no inquiring parents, then it does not matter. However, if you want to move up to a place that offers better working conditions, I do not believe that that this diploma will get you very much.

[grtaylor]

A friend of mine, who was originally teaching without a degree, took a U of P degree online - no problem with a WP after that.

G

[geriatrickid]

A friend of mine, who was originally teaching without a degree, took a U of P degree online - no problem with a WP after that.

G

ok, couple questions then;

1. Did it have an impact upon the remuneration?

2. Was it a school that could be used as a stepping stone to get into a better school which offered better working conditions including pay?

Is the money spent on this diploma going to be compensated for by the income it will generate? If it doesn't do this, what's the point? The initial impetus for these types of schools in the US was to take advantage of federal grants and subsidies. Anyways, I'll butt out now.

[Scott]

We are required by the MOE to verify the degree before they will issue the necessarily paperwork.

With the US degrees there is a national clearinghouse for verifying degrees (for participating schools). It takes less than a day to verify the degree through them.

[grtaylor]

A friend of mine, who was originally teaching without a degree, took a U of P degree online - no problem with a WP after that.

G

ok, couple questions then;

1. Did it have an impact upon the remuneration?

2. Was it a school that could be used as a stepping stone to get into a better school which offered better working conditions including pay?

Is the money spent on this diploma going to be compensated for by the income it will generate? If it doesn't do this, what's the point? The initial impetus for these types of schools in the US was to take advantage of federal grants and subsidies. Anyways, I'll butt out now.

1. Not as far as I know - but it allowed him to keep his WP and job.

2. I guess so.

[youwant2nome]

Got another question for you.. I want to get My TEFL. Is there a "LIST" of TEFL courses that the MOE uses to determine which ones they consider are good enough for a TL?

[mbkudu]

Got another question for you.. I want to get My TEFL. Is there a "LIST" of TEFL courses that the MOE uses to determine which ones they consider are good enough for a TL?

The Ministry of Education doesn't care what TEFL course you take because these courses are meaningless to them. You could take the most useless on-line fly by night course or even a CELTA, and they would say, "Good for you mate. The door is over there."

Employers are the only ones semi-interested in these courses.

Edited May 6, 2008 by mbkudu

[PeaceBlondie]

Agreed, but maybe the post by youwant2nome sounds confusing. The Ministry of Education apparently licenses TEFL course providers in Thailand. At least, some providers often say so. But MoE does not give work permits; that is Ministry of Labour. And Labour does not seem to care about TEFL certificates.

Maybe some one started a rumor years ago, that Labour required TEFL certs. I doubt they ever did. But if submitted along with other proof of the teacher's competence, a labour officer might be slightly impressed and more likely to grant the WP, though I doubt that happens.

The TEFL cert is for teachers to gain knowledge and practice, and it is for employers (schools) to honor.

More than one course claims to be certified by MOE, and at least one course claims to be the only such certified course! But I have never heard of a list. I imagine the courses that are certified would display that certification at the site of their course. Not their website, but the site where the courses are taught.

[bkkdawg]

Has anyone on here had their life experience degree rejected by the MOE? If so, what were the consequences?

Cheers

[Scott]

You pose an interesting question. I do know that some officers have a list of accredited schools. I once had them question whether a school was legitimate or not, which it was. About a week later had an applicant who had a life experience degree from an unaccredited 'diploma mill.' When I googled the school it was under investigation (there wasn't actually a school--only a post office box). The person was not the best candidate for the job, but part of the decision was based on his having a 'dodgy degree.'

I wouldn't hesitate to accept someone who is otherwise qualified and has a life experience degree from an accredited school.

Anyone know if the MOE feels the same?

[bkkdawg]

You pose an interesting question. I do know that some officers have a list of accredited schools. I once had them question whether a school was legitimate or not, which it was. About a week later had an applicant who had a life experience degree from an unaccredited 'diploma mill.' When I googled the school it was under investigation (there wasn't actually a school--only a post office box). The person was not the best candidate for the job, but part of the decision was based on his having a 'dodgy degree.'

I wouldn't hesitate to accept someone who is otherwise qualified and has a life experience degree from an accredited school.

Anyone know if the MOE feels the same?

Thanks Scott.

By the way, which life experience degrees are the accredited ones?

[korkenzieher]

I noticed one post mentioned a 'clearing' system for degrees in the US. Is there anthing similar in the UK. My degree certs are all in packing cases in storage in Hull, and yet I might (big might - lots of dithering) be taking up a post starting 12 Aug. Would I generally be expected to show a physical certificate? Does anyone have experience of getting confirmations from Universities in the UK. I've looked on the websites of both my former Uni's (not yet gone to the effort of speaking to anyone) and not found anything that looked relevant.

Edited July 23, 2009 by korkenzieher

[Loaded]

I noticed one post mentioned a 'clearing' system for degrees in the US. Is there anthing similar in the UK. My degree certs are all in packing cases in storage in Hull, and yet I might (big might - lots of dithering) be taking up a post starting 12 Aug. Would I generally be expected to show a physical certificate? Does anyone have experience of getting confirmations from Universities in the UK. I've looked on the websites of both my former Uni's (not yet gone to the effort of speaking to anyone) and not found anything that looked relevant.

You'll need to show the certificate and possibly transcripts, but it always depends on the school. Many will just accept the certificate on face value and not check it's authenticity or accreditation. Some may even accept a photocopy. I would ask someone to unpack your certificate in Hull and forward to you.

[Phatcharanan]

I wouldn't hesitate to accept someone who is otherwise qualified and has a life experience degree from an accredited school.

I somehow doubt that a true accredited school/Uni/College offer any kind of 'Life Experience Degree'.

Lets face, they are not worth the paper they are written on and any employer considering one has to be pretty desperate.

[Scott]

A couple of things to respond to: First the UK doesn't have a national clearinghouse (and least the last time I verified a degree). You have to write directly to the school. If you need the information to verify your degree, then you can write to the school and ask for a certified copy of your transcripts and a copy or letter verifying your degree. The transcripts are usually stamped with a special seal.

Secondly, I would expect that an accredited university would not issue life experience degrees in general, but if they wanted to stay accredited, they would have to have some legitimacy and that would probably mean very, very few of them being granted and then only under extremely rare circumstances.

[lennya12threh]

Ive got a serious question.

I am planning to attend Mahidol university very soon. It is one of the top 3 in thailand and is actually more expensive than canadian ones... Right now I am teaching but want to study first... I figure teaching will be better with a degree anyway and life would be better too.... I am aware that thailand has some universities you wouldnt to waste you time at for a degree but it also has very good one as well. Mahidol was actually on top 100 universty lists (worldwide) that didnt include all the normal universities in canada. Maybe it included the one in Britich Columbia only...

But sometimes I see advertisments for teaching saying " looking for canadians with a degree from a british columbia university" and im thinking what?

If ive got a 4 year degree from Mahidol university in thailand is that going to be ok for 99% of schools? I mean it is one of the best universitys and i think the thais will know. Its also got exchange programs with a canadian university near my home in canada and credit exchange.....

[Xangsamhua]

The only "life experience" degree I can imagine a reputable university awarding would be an honorary doctorate.

[mbkudu]

The only "life experience" degree I can imagine a reputable university awarding would be an honorary doctorate.

That sounds about right. People like Nelson Mandela are awarded genuine life experience degrees; not some tool handing over $500 bucks to a 'prestigious on-line university'.

[ajarntingtong]

The school where I teach has a farang teacher with a "Master's" from a non-existant university. The Dept Head is aware, but takes the position that native speakers are what is needed, and a degree isn't going to help (we only teach Conversation, not Grammer). We are in a remote part of the country with a poor farming population, and the school has found it difficult to hire at times. The Dirctor asked to see the degree (he speaks good English and took his Master's abroad), but the Dept Head conveniently forgot. The teacher's predecessor had a "life experience" degree.

I chose not to go down that path - I don't have a degree, having been recruited by a bank at the age of 15 (45 years ago). I did a TEFL course at CMU as soon as I arraved in LOS, and soon after was offered the job at my current school. I am halfway through my second year with the school and am teaching 100% legally. The Dept of Labour have given me a 12 month WP, then I fronted up at the Teacher's Council in Bangkok armed with a letter from the school and a whole heap of other paperwork, and have been given a permit to teach for two years (not a teacher's licence). Next step was Immigtration and they have extended my Non B until the end of my work contract in March next year.

I don't think you are going to get this kind of latitude in BKK or CM though. I believe I was afforded it as a result of the personal contacts the Dept Head has developed over the years, the relative remoteness of the school, and the school's wanting to retain me based on my performance the previous year.