Middle East Workers

[mrt273nva]

How many of you guys work for half the year in the Middle East and then spend the other half of the time in Thailand? I'm hearing about more and more people doing it and was wondering how I might get into something like that. Would like to talk to someone that is doing it now.

[Farma]

You may get more responses if you mention a field you’re experienced in.

I could be proved wrong but I’d say 50/50 work/time off would be stretching it a fair bit. 5 on/1 off would be closer to the mark.

I’d hazard a guess and say experience in the oil or military aviation industry would be a big bonus. That’s not to say there isn’t work available in the financial, health or construction fields.

[rgs2001uk]

i hear the rov (pilot/technician) industry is recruiting just about anyone that can hold a spanner.

need to get yourself qualified first, a lot of guys did their one month course in australia, cant remember exactly how much it cost, but wasnt too expensive.

starting salary is about $9,000 per month in america or $13,000 if singapore, also vacancies in the middle east, its all word of mouth, not what you know but who you know that gets you in the door.

you need to bear in mind you dont get any salary when you are on shore and their may well be local taxes to be paid.

as prevoius poster mentioned a cycle of 1 month on,1 month off in the middle east in not so common, i know guys working for american companies there who are lucky to get 30 days holiday a year, eg 2 lots of 2 weeks vacation time once a year, depends on which country and which industry you are in, bottom line is what are you qualified to do and what experience do you have?

[PhilHarries]

It's not just the middle east that operates like that but most workers in that routine are in oil & gas. I'm in Viet Nam working 11 on 2 off and know people working in such places as Kashakstan, Sakhalin Island, Malaysia, Indonesia (one colleague working 7 on 3 off) and Africa ( ). These are all working on onshore projects, offshore jobs worldwide are on a rotation basis. The money is good but all too often it is good for a reason i.e. the place is a sh1tehole and that all or nothing lifestyle doesn't suit everybody.

I know of people who have worked 28 on 28 off (days) but that was in Yemen. People who work 6 months and then take a 6 month break in Thailand are generally working in seasonal type of business or are self employed/consultants and thus can afford a long break.

[Tomkagai]

I know of people who have worked 28 on 28 off (days) but that was in Yemen.

28/28 rotations are getting harder to find in the O&G game...I am one of the lucky ones who works 28/28..

[scotbeve]

rgs2001uk,

Nobody's on the Sh#te rates! And NO!!! not just anybody that can hold a spanner!! They'd be packing their bags pretty quick if found out....

[Farma]

scotbeve what sort of rates are you suggesting the rov guys are being paid?

[Tomkagai]

rgs2001uk,

Nobody's on the Sh#te rates! And NO!!! not just anybody that can hold a spanner!! They'd be packing their bags pretty quick if found out....

Got to agree with you mate...come across too many who have done a 1 months course and think they are gods gift to driving ROV's....correct.... they dont last very long....usually because of an arrogant attitude...

[Tomkagai]

i hear the rov (pilot/technician) industry is recruiting just about anyone that can hold a spanner.

need to get yourself qualified first, a lot of guys did their one month course in australia, cant remember exactly how much it cost, but wasnt too expensive.

starting salary is about $9,000 per month in america or $13,000 if singapore, also vacancies in the middle east, its all word of mouth, not what you know but who you know that gets you in the door.

you need to bear in mind you dont get any salary when you are on shore and their may well be local taxes to be paid.

as prevoius poster mentioned a cycle of 1 month on,1 month off in the middle east in not so common, i know guys working for american companies there who are lucky to get 30 days holiday a year, eg 2 lots of 2 weeks vacation time once a year, depends on which country and which industry you are in, bottom line is what are you qualified to do and what experience do you have?

Most of the ROV guys work contract so a starting Salary of k9/month to k13/month...if working rotations this has to be divided by two...therefore $4500/month to $6500/month if managing to stay in work for the year...so working it this way the money is not that good for O&G...

Correct...the O&G game works on word of mouth......very difficult to get into if you dont know somebody...

[GuestHouse]

Count me in... sort of.

I'm currently in Saudi Arabia on a one year assignment, my permanent work location is elsewhere.

Sector - O&G

R&R Cycle - 75 in 18 out.

Compensation £X/year ++ = 365 days/year (including R&R days out)

Would I do it long term?

No....

I came here to finish a project started three years ago. I'll be moving on to a new project elsewhere after I'm done here.... a 'reward posting' is likely

Edited April 25, 2008 by GuestHouse

[rgs2001uk]

rgs2001uk,

Nobody's on the Sh#te rates! And NO!!! not just anybody that can hold a spanner!! They'd be packing their bags pretty quick if found out....

scotbeve, i said starting salary, yes i agree its crap, i wouldnt get out of bed for that sort of money,however not everyone has that luxury.

i know of 5 guys in the last year alone who have no offshore/rov experiience who have started in the industry, all of them late 30s early 40s, most looking for a career change or change of working enviornment.

i wont embarrass the guys by posting their names or the companies they work for, i know some of the guys read this site, however i have no reason to believe they are lying to me, and i am sure they would all be interested to know how much in your opinion they could and should be earning and also which companies they should be forwarding their resumes to.

beleive me there is at least one of the guys i wouldnt trust to wire a plug, and the stories of unlicensed guys taking subs for a swim, well you will know better than i.

if its so difficult to get in, why are so many guys heading off to do a saftey/fam course?

i can only guess some potential employers are so desperate to recruit that they will turn a blind eye.

[scotbeve]

scotbeve what sort of rates are you suggesting the rov guys are being paid?

Follow this link:

http://www.rovworld.com/

[Tomkagai]

rgs2001uk,

Nobody's on the Sh#te rates! And NO!!! not just anybody that can hold a spanner!! They'd be packing their bags pretty quick if found out....

scotbeve, i said starting salary, yes i agree its crap, i wouldnt get out of bed for that sort of money,however not everyone has that luxury.

i know of 5 guys in the last year alone who have no offshore/rov experiience who have started in the industry, all of them late 30s early 40s, most looking for a career change or change of working enviornment.

i wont embarrass the guys by posting their names or the companies they work for, i know some of the guys read this site, however i have no reason to believe they are lying to me, and i am sure they would all be interested to know how much in your opinion they could and should be earning and also which companies they should be forwarding their resumes to.

beleive me there is at least one of the guys i wouldnt trust to wire a plug, and the stories of unlicensed guys taking subs for a swim, well you will know better than i.

if its so difficult to get in, why are so many guys heading off to do a saftey/fam course?

i can only guess some potential employers are so desperate to recruit that they will turn a blind eye.

Just to pick up on a couple of points..

The guys you mention have only been in the game a year, so would be considered "babies" - they will <deleted> up at some stage..and could be bye bye to their career offshore....The company employing them wants bums in the ROV seat and are quite prepared to take a risk with people with no experience as all they want to do is invoice..the piece of paper from the course in the real world means jack...at the end of the day it wont be their company sacking them..it will be the client...

So many people are doing safety courses etc for offshore...as the vast majority have $ signs in their eyes...pretty easy to get into the offshore O&G game...very difficult to stay in long term...

As the oil proce is so high we have every man and his dog trying to jump on the band wagon...the perception is the industry is short of bodies...in reality there is a shortage of experienced bodies...there is a difference

[scotbeve]

rgs2001uk,

Nobody's on the Sh#te rates! And NO!!! not just anybody that can hold a spanner!! They'd be packing their bags pretty quick if found out....

scotbeve, i said starting salary, yes i agree its crap, i wouldnt get out of bed for that sort of money,however not everyone has that luxury.

i know of 5 guys in the last year alone who have no offshore/rov experiience who have started in the industry, all of them late 30s early 40s, most looking for a career change or change of working enviornment.

i wont embarrass the guys by posting their names or the companies they work for, i know some of the guys read this site, however i have no reason to believe they are lying to me, and i am sure they would all be interested to know how much in your opinion they could and should be earning and also which companies they should be forwarding their resumes to.

beleive me there is at least one of the guys i wouldnt trust to wire a plug, and the stories of unlicensed guys taking subs for a swim, well you will know better than i.

if its so difficult to get in, why are so many guys heading off to do a saftey/fam course?

i can only guess some potential employers are so desperate to recruit that they will turn a blind eye.

Just to pick up on a couple of points..

The guys you mention have only been in the game a year, so would be considered "babies" - they will <deleted> up at some stage..and could be bye bye to their career offshore....The company employing them wants bums in the ROV seat and are quite prepared to take a risk with people with no experience as all they want to do is invoice..the piece of paper from the course in the real world means jack...at the end of the day it wont be their company sacking them..it will be the client...

So many people are doing safety courses etc for offshore...as the vast majority have $ signs in their eyes...pretty easy to get into the offshore O&G game...very difficult to stay in long term...

As the oil proce is so high we have every man and his dog trying to jump on the band wagon...the perception is the industry is short of bodies...in reality there is a shortage of experienced bodies...there is a difference

Tom,

Thank you for stating the above... I've stressed a few of your words.

[Farma]

Thanks scotbeve, I’m not in the trade at the moment but you never know when a change of scenery is needed. I’ve added it to my favorites for future reference.

I’ve been on a tax-free Guesthouse type contract for years and have a chuckle every now and then when my ROV mates claim us “mercenary” types (private joke) get paid more than them. Now I've got an idea of what they are actually earning.

[rgs2001uk]

rgs2001uk,

Nobody's on the Sh#te rates! And NO!!! not just anybody that can hold a spanner!! They'd be packing their bags pretty quick if found out....

scotbeve, i said starting salary, yes i agree its crap, i wouldnt get out of bed for that sort of money,however not everyone has that luxury.

i know of 5 guys in the last year alone who have no offshore/rov experiience who have started in the industry, all of them late 30s early 40s, most looking for a career change or change of working enviornment.

i wont embarrass the guys by posting their names or the companies they work for, i know some of the guys read this site, however i have no reason to believe they are lying to me, and i am sure they would all be interested to know how much in your opinion they could and should be earning and also which companies they should be forwarding their resumes to.

beleive me there is at least one of the guys i wouldnt trust to wire a plug, and the stories of unlicensed guys taking subs for a swim, well you will know better than i.

if its so difficult to get in, why are so many guys heading off to do a saftey/fam course?

i can only guess some potential employers are so desperate to recruit that they will turn a blind eye.

Just to pick up on a couple of points..

The guys you mention have only been in the game a year, so would be considered "babies" - they will <deleted> up at some stage..and could be bye bye to their career offshore....The company employing them wants bums in the ROV seat and are quite prepared to take a risk with people with no experience as all they want to do is invoice..the piece of paper from the course in the real world means jack...at the end of the day it wont be their company sacking them..it will be the client...

So many people are doing safety courses etc for offshore...as the vast majority have $ signs in their eyes...pretty easy to get into the offshore O&G game...very difficult to stay in long term...

As the oil proce is so high we have every man and his dog trying to jump on the band wagon...the perception is the industry is short of bodies...in reality there is a shortage of experienced bodies...there is a difference

tomkagai ( one of my favourite dishes by the way)

thanks for taking the time to reply, yes i agree 100% with everything you say, i was only taking up the point made by another poster that nobody worked for that sort of money. i know what its like to have to babysit someone with no experience, they are usually found out pretty quickly, there are also very few people i would ever recommend, can come back and bite you on the ass.

another point you are spot on with is the one of experience, i know multi national companies located where guesthouse is, who are having difficulty recruiting, they only want bums on seats to avoid be penalised by the saudis, the ones with experience will go where they are being paid the going rate for the job, and will always be employable. unfortunately there are too many bums, drifters and deadbeats floating around who think doing a quick course is their passport to fast and easy money, as i said before they are found out pretty quickly, the others who lack ambition and drive tend just to remain where they feel insulated from the real world.

[scotbeve]

Funny thing is there are people back in the real world that say, " Oh come on, you're bear shooting me here!!!" or "Oh yeah, sure" or "You didn't go there..." ad infinum

22 -25K / mo. hmmmmmm

[Tomkagai]

rgs2001uk,

Nobody's on the Sh#te rates! And NO!!! not just anybody that can hold a spanner!! They'd be packing their bags pretty quick if found out....

scotbeve, i said starting salary, yes i agree its crap, i wouldnt get out of bed for that sort of money,however not everyone has that luxury.

i know of 5 guys in the last year alone who have no offshore/rov experiience who have started in the industry, all of them late 30s early 40s, most looking for a career change or change of working enviornment.

i wont embarrass the guys by posting their names or the companies they work for, i know some of the guys read this site, however i have no reason to believe they are lying to me, and i am sure they would all be interested to know how much in your opinion they could and should be earning and also which companies they should be forwarding their resumes to.

beleive me there is at least one of the guys i wouldnt trust to wire a plug, and the stories of unlicensed guys taking subs for a swim, well you will know better than i.

if its so difficult to get in, why are so many guys heading off to do a saftey/fam course?

i can only guess some potential employers are so desperate to recruit that they will turn a blind eye.

Just to pick up on a couple of points..

The guys you mention have only been in the game a year, so would be considered "babies" - they will <deleted> up at some stage..and could be bye bye to their career offshore....The company employing them wants bums in the ROV seat and are quite prepared to take a risk with people with no experience as all they want to do is invoice..the piece of paper from the course in the real world means jack...at the end of the day it wont be their company sacking them..it will be the client...

So many people are doing safety courses etc for offshore...as the vast majority have $ signs in their eyes...pretty easy to get into the offshore O&G game...very difficult to stay in long term...

As the oil proce is so high we have every man and his dog trying to jump on the band wagon...the perception is the industry is short of bodies...in reality there is a shortage of experienced bodies...there is a difference

tomkagai ( one of my favourite dishes by the way)

thanks for taking the time to reply, yes i agree 100% with everything you say, i was only taking up the point made by another poster that nobody worked for that sort of money. i know what its like to have to babysit someone with no experience, they are usually found out pretty quickly, there are also very few people i would ever recommend, can come back and bite you on the ass.

another point you are spot on with is the one of experience, i know multi national companies located where guesthouse is, who are having difficulty recruiting, they only want bums on seats to avoid be penalised by the saudis, the ones with experience will go where they are being paid the going rate for the job, and will always be employable. unfortunately there are too many bums, drifters and deadbeats floating around who think doing a quick course is their passport to fast and easy money, as i said before they are found out pretty quickly, the others who lack ambition and drive tend just to remain where they feel insulated from the real world.

Never a truer statement made..and this applies across the industry..not just to ROVs..if the sole motivation someone has to get in the game is money...then stay out as you will not last too long....in my 25 years in the game (through pure luck and being in the right place at the right time), for every 5 people taken on offshore, there will be one left at the end of 12-18 months

...actually had guys coming offshore who thought they could go home or the beach for the weekends. and where most upset when they found out they had to work 7 days a week minimum 12 hours a day...think the record for the shortest time sombody lasted was two days....and they were crying for their mummy... ...at the end of the day it takes a certain kind of person to work offshore...do you earn your money..yes you do...!!

[Farma]

Back to the OP’s question. The thing is you need to be qualified preferably with experience.

The Middle East isn’t as good as it used to be for money. As rgs2001uk mentioned there are certain companies screaming out for manpower. At the same time contract money being offered in Europe to EU passport holders by some companies in the same field is higher than that being offered in Saudi.

When you add in the chance to live a “normal” lifestyle without the hassles and restrictions that come with working in the Middle East you can see why these recruitment problems occur.

As for me I’ll stick to the insulated lifestyle suggested by rgs2001uk. Aye mate

[Tomkagai]

Back to the OP's question. The thing is you need to be qualified preferably with experience.

The Middle East isn't as good as it used to be for money. As rgs2001uk mentioned there are certain companies screaming out for manpower. At the same time contract money being offered in Europe to EU passport holders by some companies in the same field is higher than that being offered in Saudi.

When you add in the chance to live a "normal" lifestyle without the hassles and restrictions that come with working in the Middle East you can see why these recruitment problems occur.

As for me I'll stick to the insulated lifestyle suggested by rgs2001uk. Aye mate

The rates in the middle east are not as good as other places, simply because for many years most of the jobs were taken up by persons of the indian sub-continent working for peanuts...the middle east is slowly catching up......but will have difficulties finding people due to the restrictions/hassles as stated....

[GuestHouse]

.the perception is the industry is short of bodies...in reality there is a shortage of experienced bodies...there is a difference

I'll agree with that whole heartedly - However, the real shortage is not in the field but in the design office. The O&G business (and its sister businesses in Petro-Chem, Pharma and Bio) have been the doldrums for the best part of the preceding two decades.

Result: A cut back in recruitment and an aging core staff within the design industry.

Now that the industry has picked up (a consequence of the Post 9/11 reaction and the Gulf War) there is a huge shortage of staff in the 'Front End' of Projects.

So the big money is in the Engineering Offices - Where people with the right qualifications are earning extremely good salaries - £ix Figure annual incomes in the the UK are not uncommon. If you can offer Front End to Commissioning Experience and Qualifications then write your own cheque.

But take note: The market has changed - Qualified and Educated people from all over the world are being brought into the business. A friend of mine who worked with my wife at the UN World Food Program commented on a visit to our head office that we had a wider mix of people than the WFP Headquarters - Its probably true - Talent is flooding in from around the world.

Staffing Site Jobs.

Most recruitment at site is now via agencies and 'contracting body shops'. They too are recruiting internationally brining staff in from four notable locations: The Philippines, The Indian Subcontinent, South Africa and the New European States. And believe me they bring in some first rate people at very low rates.

There is are clear 'networks' amongst these people, guys recommend friends - they bring friends in, a good thing, they take their friends with them when they themselves leaves (often a good things!). They are also very reluctant to see 'outsiders' coming in - for obvious reasons.

What CV's get jobs - Relevant Qualifications, Experience AND a demonstrated tenacity (evidence that you have finished what you started).

Location, Location, Location: Where you are located is going to determine the rate you get offered, it is up to you if you accept it or not.

Advice I would give to someone who wants to work in O&G. - Everyone has to do their porridge - Be realistic with your expectations and tell the truth to yourself when reading adverts for jobs. Have you or have you not got the qualification/experience they are asking for? If not, then you are going to have to do some porridge. The best experience you can probably get is working in a company/project in your home country where the cards are more in your favor, and then build on that.

And remember always - There is no free money in this industry - You get your money but you ARE going to give your pound of flesh - and the odd drop of blood.

[scotbeve]

Guesthouse,

There's folks in the offshore side that are easily making 6 figure salaries (in GBP). A sound set of advice for some of the wannabees. I myself have been in the industry (one job only) for 28 yrs. and been through the school of hard knocks. 6 of those 28 years were terrible, skint-type years due to the LACK of work. Now is (obviously) the opposite with an oil boom never seen in the history of the industry - as well the prices.

[meom]

I'm working in Saudi since 1992. 7 weeks on 2 weeks off. In the beginning the Filipinos had to teach me how to hold a spanner cause I had never used one in my life. I didn't know what a gasket was either and first job I was on I had to box-up some flanges and forget to put all the gaskets in. When they did a leaktest the equipment looked more like a shower with water coming out everywhere. I learned pretty quick after that.

[scotbeve]

I'm working in Saudi since 1992. 7 weeks on 2 weeks off. In the beginning the Filipinos had to teach me how to hold a spanner cause I had never used one in my life. I didn't know what a gasket was either and first job I was on I had to box-up some flanges and forget to put all the gaskets in. When they did a leaktest the equipment looked more like a shower with water coming out everywhere. I learned pretty quick after that.

Ummm.. better water than oil or gas.... This is just what another poster and myself were trying to get across. The point is this succintly, there are experience parameters, rules, standards, and most importantly safety guidelines that must be followed. There are, on some occassions, times when shortcuts, during any aspect of the industry are used with (seldom) catastrophic results. It's these tragic events that the O&G industry are trying to avoid. Lessons have been learned and guidelines have been set. If it sounds like we (guys like myself and others - multi-disciplined, old hands) are being too rough or unreasonable then I seriously suggest to steer clear from the industry.

[gwynt]

.the perception is the industry is short of bodies...in reality there is a shortage of experienced bodies...there is a difference

I'll agree with that whole heartedly - However, the real shortage is not in the field but in the design office. The O&G business (and its sister businesses in Petro-Chem, Pharma and Bio) have been the doldrums for the best part of the preceding two decades.

Result: A cut back in recruitment and an aging core staff within the design industry.

Now that the industry has picked up (a consequence of the Post 9/11 reaction and the Gulf War) there is a huge shortage of staff in the 'Front End' of Projects.

So the big money is in the Engineering Offices - Where people with the right qualifications are earning extremely good salaries - £ix Figure annual incomes in the the UK are not uncommon. If you can offer Front End to Commissioning Experience and Qualifications then write your own cheque.

But take note: The market has changed - Qualified and Educated people from all over the world are being brought into the business. A friend of mine who worked with my wife at the UN World Food Program commented on a visit to our head office that we had a wider mix of people than the WFP Headquarters - Its probably true - Talent is flooding in from around the world.

What you're saying is spot on, our head office in the Uk is staffed by engineers from around the world, India S.A.

S America.

The other thing that is noticable is the ages, I have been in the O+G power industries for 30+ years, for the last 5 years Saudi, is the age range old gits like me and then youngsters around 28 to 35 and not to many in between. This is due to the 1980 when no new talent came into the game because thre was not enough work to go aroud, I was one of those who survived, just.

Currently on 75/16 but most of the new projects and there are a h*ll of a lot starting are 56/14.

My company is offering cash rewards to introduce good qualified people to them, so feel free to send me your CV's

Gwynt

Staffing Site Jobs.

Most recruitment at site is now via agencies and 'contracting body shops'. They too are recruiting internationally brining staff in from four notable locations: The Philippines, The Indian Subcontinent, South Africa and the New European States. And believe me they bring in some first rate people at very low rates.

There is are clear 'networks' amongst these people, guys recommend friends - they bring friends in, a good thing, they take their friends with them when they themselves leaves (often a good things!). They are also very reluctant to see 'outsiders' coming in - for obvious reasons.

What CV's get jobs - Relevant Qualifications, Experience AND a demonstrated tenacity (evidence that you have finished what you started).

Location, Location, Location: Where you are located is going to determine the rate you get offered, it is up to you if you accept it or not.

Advice I would give to someone who wants to work in O&G. - Everyone has to do their porridge - Be realistic with your expectations and tell the truth to yourself when reading adverts for jobs. Have you or have you not got the qualification/experience they are asking for? If not, then you are going to have to do some porridge. The best experience you can probably get is working in a company/project in your home country where the cards are more in your favor, and then build on that.

And remember always - There is no free money in this industry - You get your money but you ARE going to give your pound of flesh - and the odd drop of blood.

[Tomkagai]

Staffing Site Jobs.

Most recruitment at site is now via agencies and 'contracting body shops'. They too are recruiting internationally brining staff in from four notable locations: The Philippines, The Indian Subcontinent, South Africa and the New European States. And believe me they bring in some first rate people at very low rates.

Just to pick up on this point...the end user (the client of the bodyshop) will have a budget in place for the postion usually based on either European or US rates and usually the reason the bodyshop is recruiting in the places mentioned is that they can get somebody who is qualifed "on paper" at a massively reduced rate and still charge the client at European/US rates, therefore maximising the bodyshop profits....

So always worth disccussing the rates with the client (end user) during the interview as an agency should only be adding around 10-15% on top of the dayrate..

Know of guys who where getting paid what they considered was a good rate..until they found out what the agency was charging them out at and trust me not happy campers...considering what an average agency does these days...

[RubbaJohnny]

I did until made enough to not need to revel in the sand pits

Insh'allah