Boundary Brick Walls On Sloping Plot Of Land

[gdhm]

Hi,

RE Boundary brick wall.

I am in urgent need of advice as my builder is not doing as I expected. He is making a different assumption on lining up than I.

I know what I want but before I tackle his error I wish to make sure that my layman's logic is correct (or the norm) and that I am not trying to ask for something a professional builder would never do or recommend.

OK Facts:

plot of land is 200 Talangwah.

From the road (left side) it slopes UP to the back by about 1.25 metre.

From the road (right side) it slopes UP to the back by about .75 metre.

Back wall left to right slopes UP to the right by about .3 meters

The house is level but the garden being allowed to mostly follow the slopes and contour of the land.

I said I wanted the wall 2 metres high all the way around as i intedn putting barbed wire on top (so want it above head height)

The builder firstly has made the back wall only 1.5 metre so that is wrong anyway.

Where we are thinking differently is that he is keeping a straight line along the top of the walls no matter how big the slope of the land the wall is built on. Consequently the back left SIDE starts 1.5metres high above soil and rises to just over 2.25 metre at the front. If the back wall was the correct height of 2 metres then the front side wall would be over 3.25 metres high above soil level.

There is a similar situation on the right wall but not quite so pronounced.

The workers are saying the wall should be parallel along the top. I am saying it looks ludicrous and much too high at the front and it should a have been built exactly 2 metres from the foundation (soil level) all along its length. i think it look awful 80% completed their way

I accept to deal with the slope either bricks needed cutting at the top to maintain 2 meters along the length, or extra concrete used to deal it. or less pretty and desirable the wall staggered at certain supporting posts in order to retain closish to 2 metres height above ground level all the way around.

Is there any boundary wall experts who know which (or other) option is the usual practice for boundary walls on sloping land

The way the builder is doing it (far advanced in 2 days before I saw the issue). No wall is the same height above the soil level and the back to front height of the left wall is 1.5 to 2.25 metres. Looks awful (and stupid) to me.

As I said earlier if I get the back wall corrected to 2 metres then the front left side wall will rise to over 3.25 metres at the front (looking like a mini Berlin wall is being built and more vunerable to high gusts of wind.

I accept a way round this would be to raise all the garden area to the same level then the walls will be identical but this strikes me a paying out extra money to compensate for a builders lack of logic (or am I being unfair on the builder and for some reason his logic is correct.

Urgent advice would be much appreciated as I wish to tackle the builder (or concede to what he has done) sometime tomorrow before it is totally finished.

Many thanks and kind regards

Dave

[apetley]

Looks like one of those communication problems to me. You have my sympathy.

Whatever happens I don't believe it'll be easy to solve and make your wall a uniform 2 metres high.

Too late I know but I draw lots of pictures for my builder as wifey is not so technical in explaining what I want in our house. The pic does not need to be detailed as most builders know what they're doing.

I have seen plenty of walls where each section has been the same height on a slope so that the wall gradually rises with it.

If it really is so unsightly you can't stand it you may have to get him to tear it down and start again. A reinforced wall will be very difficult to 'cut' to a different height.

[egg6447]

if you want the wall stepped up/down up to you , no problem from any perspective. my plot was raised 1.5 mt above the road. so i have a slope from the house to the road. the perimeter wall is stepped from back to front. looks good to me. as i say no probs.

[Rimmer]

It's not a communication thing at all, nor is it rocket science. The man is a clown, get rid of him and find a proper builder.

[OurManinSamui2008]

Dave, Hi ok here goes, a sloping wall is not proper building practise, in my 30years building here in Muang Thai and England.

Now, your dilema comes from 2 metres high, all you do is step, as one gentlemen suggests, the Thais know how to do that,

But what you have to do is an average

Example, if the land in the middle, rises slightly, you have to look at the lay as in what looks right.

So it may be in area's 1.9 but if the the steps are fairly even, you can get involved with this, stand back look and decide.

Sloping is a night mare and I know the Thai's will make a mountain out of a mole hill, because......

They really do not want to do it, the slope that is..

Good luck

OurManinSamui2008

Hi,

RE Boundary brick wall.

I am in urgent need of advice as my builder is not doing as I expected. He is making a different assumption on lining up than I.

I know what I want but before I tackle his error I wish to make sure that my layman's logic is correct (or the norm) and that I am not trying to ask for something a professional builder would never do or recommend.

OK Facts:

plot of land is 200 Talangwah.

From the road (left side) it slopes UP to the back by about 1.25 metre.

From the road (right side) it slopes UP to the back by about .75 metre.

Back wall left to right slopes UP to the right by about .3 meters

The house is level but the garden being allowed to mostly follow the slopes and contour of the land.

I said I wanted the wall 2 metres high all the way around as i intedn putting barbed wire on top (so want it above head height)

The builder firstly has made the back wall only 1.5 metre so that is wrong anyway.

Where we are thinking differently is that he is keeping a straight line along the top of the walls no matter how big the slope of the land the wall is built on. Consequently the back left SIDE starts 1.5metres high above soil and rises to just over 2.25 metre at the front. If the back wall was the correct height of 2 metres then the front side wall would be over 3.25 metres high above soil level.

There is a similar situation on the right wall but not quite so pronounced.

The workers are saying the wall should be parallel along the top. I am saying it looks ludicrous and much too high at the front and it should a have been built exactly 2 metres from the foundation (soil level) all along its length. i think it look awful 80% completed their way

I accept to deal with the slope either bricks needed cutting at the top to maintain 2 meters along the length, or extra concrete used to deal it. or less pretty and desirable the wall staggered at certain supporting posts in order to retain closish to 2 metres height above ground level all the way around.

Is there any boundary wall experts who know which (or other) option is the usual practice for boundary walls on sloping land

The way the builder is doing it (far advanced in 2 days before I saw the issue). No wall is the same height above the soil level and the back to front height of the left wall is 1.5 to 2.25 metres. Looks awful (and stupid) to me.

As I said earlier if I get the back wall corrected to 2 metres then the front left side wall will rise to over 3.25 metres at the front (looking like a mini Berlin wall is being built and more vunerable to high gusts of wind.

I accept a way round this would be to raise all the garden area to the same level then the walls will be identical but this strikes me a paying out extra money to compensate for a builders lack of logic (or am I being unfair on the builder and for some reason his logic is correct.

Urgent advice would be much appreciated as I wish to tackle the builder (or concede to what he has done) sometime tomorrow before it is totally finished.

Many thanks and kind regards

Dave

[gdhm]

It's not a communication thing at all, nor is it rocket science. The man is a clown, get rid of him and find a proper builder.

I can't he is my wife's uncle. His work actually is very good but every so often he makes an unexpected unforeseeable move or interpretation .

With the walls I said I want the walls 2 metres all round so I expected that. I appreciate that some may go the builders way but I think 2metre all the way around is pretty clear what I was saying and even if not then a 3m plus section of the wall is abnormally high by anybodies standards (No??).

I even said the reason was I wanted barbed wire on top and higher than peoples heads. I appreciate that with a staggered wall it cannot be exactly 2 metre high all along (unless they cut and smooth the top). I have pointed out to my wife that if he raises the back wall to 2 metres and then with he maintains his level "along the top" side walls then our side walls at the front will rise to 3 metres above soil level.

I have suggested to her to ask him where he has seen a boundary wall higher than his own house's ground floor ceiling

AND to ask him if he expects a wall that high even with reinforced poles along it to withstand more than a year or two (if lucky) years of high monsoon winds. I would expect it to crack and yield in time along the bottom. 3 metre for part of a wall is a huge volume of wall to resist a high wind. God help anybody under it.

The builder says don't worry adjustments at the end to things are normal. I said to my wife tell him fine adjustments are normal , but adjustments to a wall he has already laid the concrete sill along the top of 2 of the walls is not an adjustment it is a remake and a waste on materials, labour and my money which I fear he will need to make up elsewhere.

I have told my wife I don't care what he thinks or wants I will not budge . All wall were to be high enough so nobody could just look over them or easily climb then. That was why 2 metres was chosen (not too high not too low). There ar etwo house behind our house one wall is new 1.5m (which is what the builder matched -amazing as it did nto exist when we agreed wall height). The other is 2 metres. So me boundary wall at 1.5 leaves .5 of this other houses wall showing above it.

For me there are so many obvious clues that my builder was in error starting the back wall at 1.5m that I am finding it very hard but to be downright rude. He always knew I was matching the height of the neighbours 2 metre wall. (only God knows what made his decide to follow the lower height of a wall that was not yet built at the time.

I am now getting angry with the sloppiness of this building project. The Builders son-in-law did the architects plan for me (true qualified architect he worked with a structural surveyor on my plans). Great work but unfortunately sloppy procedure at the later stages.

1. I gave him a floor plan with measurements 100% correct but not scaled to plan

2. He comes round with very professional draft plans and waits whilst I check it (IN ONLY 20 MINUTES). I should have been given several days. I immediately notice errors and a change or two I wished for. He left. As he only had the one copy he was not able to leave me one for further thought and checking.

3. 3½ weeks later his wife come with the 2nd plan. She asks me to sign planning permission requests because she is going straight to the planning Dept. to submit the plans. I notice half the errors are still there in the new plans.

No problem she told me. The main area is correct enough for the planning permission. She left me a plan this time and goes. The builder has already started work on the foundations which we all agreed were accurate in the first plan.

4. I work on the 2nd plan extensively for 2 days correcting errors not corrected and a few I did not see in the 20 mins I was previously given . I also reduced the number of windows.

5. I contacted the wife of the architect (who lives locally) and said I have done the final corrections and adjustments. She phoned her husband and he said "don't worry we can do the amendments to the plan later as the builder at this stage has correct plans for what he is doing (The builder agreed with this view point as well (seem to hunt in packs ) . Regretfully usual Thai laid back approach just asking for mistakes to creep in (at my expense).

Because of this, I am having to watch the builder like a hawk to make sure he dos not start things based on errors (and I am not there enough or expert enough to always tell if an error has started. (to be honest this is not my job)

Last night the wall was the final straw and I was very angry.

I told my wife to get the Architects wife to tell her husband to get his but around to my house (even if i have to pay a little extra) as I want him to meet me urgently and to correct the errors and make the final changes to the windows and show all the added electric sockets and their placements, lighting positions etc. so the builder has a true 100% accurate plan to work form plan AND ME.

I told my wife to tell the builder and architect you do not build a house on 85% accurate plans and then finish the plans after the house in finished. You do the plans first sign them off with architect, builder and client THEN the builder builds EXACTLY to plan.

I told my wife to tell them I am the client not the foreman and it is NOT my responsibility to have to keep an eye on all building work It is for the plans to be 100% correct and the builder to follow then 100% UNLESS we agree a change or he feels there is a compliance problem and then he talks to me about options.

Since the upstairs floor has been added 10 days ago 2 of the 8 workers have fallen off the 2nd level. One was the builder himself (my wife's Uncle) he was OK the other yesterday is in hospital (don't think it is too serious I pray not).

I told the builder after HIS fall I that no house is worth worker serious injuries and that I do not want injuries and risk of death in order to complete the house on dates agreed. Safely first and house completion date 2nd (it is not worth men's health to rush) and I am not going to be unhappy with a month or so delay.

From a religious viewpoint .

I admit I said to my wife last night. "So much for your 9 monks blessing of the land and foundations before the work started for good luck during the building. Some good luck 2 injuries in 10 days".

Some may feel that was low blow to a person's beliefs but these beliefs and the necessity to follow them if all is to go well warrants such comments when to me it is clear they made no difference at all.

Of course had I refused the 9 monks blessing then my wife would have said the 2 accidents were because I did not bless the building - answer for every thing when it comes to superstitions, merit good and bad luck.

Well thats the back drop. TIT and to be honest I love Thailand but communication is a problem and my natural organized ways ar ein contradiction to Thais laid back relaxed ways. Obviously when in Rome but I feel with House building projects there IS ONLY ONE acceptable way and that has to be the organized way (which in this case is my way).

Regards to all and thanks for replies to date

[apetley]

Thanks for writing this up and as I said in my first post you have my sympathy.

It is sometimes not easy dealing with a family builder but the plus point is that they will more than likely try to help more than a non family member.

That is my experience anyway.

My wife and I are just building a house now, her uncle is the builder !!! so I can relate to your story.

We also had a problem with the house plans and will have a ceremonial burning of them when our project is complete haha.

Here's the story so far if your interested.

http://coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.p...asc&start=0

How much wall have you built so far? If not too much is up I would bite the bullet and tear it down and make him do a proper job. I am sure you could reach an agreement on any extra cost.

As for the monks, you are in a no win situation so just go with the flow. I don't believe a word of it myself but wifey and her family do and it's very important to them so I just wait around until it's all over then get on with the rest of the day.

[Rimmer]

I had GF father build my house, 600 sq mtrs on 2 1/2 rai. That wall in the picture is one of my perimiter walls. Family can build well, they can also build incredibly bad if you don't watch them.

Try to remember there are two way to do the job. The easy way and the correct way. Guess which they will always try first off? You just have to be there to make sure it's right. I have personaly taken a sledge hammer to walls that are not correct and tiles that are a mess. They don't like it and some may walk off the site but at the end of the day if they will not do it right then they have to go. If they can get away with it they will. Try not to upset people too much but they have to understand you will have it right. they will try harder once they see that you are there with praise if it's done well or you make them take it down if it's not.

Like it or not you have to be there all the time or at least 3 hours every day. Plan ahead day by day and make sure they understand, a site meeting at the end of the day with what they are going to be doing tomorrow is useful.

The monks will be simply be placating the spirits of the land, telling them that you are nice folks and mean them no harm. Usually done when the first pole is erected. If you still have accidents get the drunks off the site and do the pigs head thing, her uncle will know how to do that.

As for workers falling off the second floor. Quite plainly they were drunk, workers do not fall with that frequency. Your GF will know the truth.

I had four workers that were drunk 15 days out of 30 each and every month. They were always falling off ladders and doing sloppy work. Get the drunks off the site they will cause problems down the line. The key to it is when the GF says "Pon have day off today", yea right drunk again. Drunkeness cost me 4 months on the project and probably an extra 500,000 baht in costs. It's a major major problem that you and I can not even begin to comprehend.

Get the plans correct and the house will be correct is a good maxim to follow, having said that the drawings they have here are so bad and bear no relation to the end product or what the building permit was issued for that the builder has to use his best judgment.

It's not easy but you can do it

[gdhm]

Thanks for writing this up and as I said in my first post you have my sympathy.

It is sometimes not easy dealing with a family builder but the plus point is that they will more than likely try to help more than a non family member.

That is my experience anyway.

My wife and I are just building a house now, her uncle is the builder !!! so I can relate to your story.

We also had a problem with the house plans and will have a ceremonial burning of them when our project is complete haha.

Here's the story so far if your interested.

http://coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.p...asc&start=0

How much wall have you built so far? If not too much is up I would bite the bullet and tear it down and make him do a proper job. I am sure you could reach an agreement on any extra cost.

As for the monks, you are in a no win situation so just go with the flow. I don't believe a word of it myself but wifey and her family do and it's very important to them so I just wait around until it's all over then get on with the rest of the day.

All that you say is valid and I agree with go with the flow and that the family builder is keen to please. That is exactly true in my case. He is a lovely man.

The wall foundation and post position and steel had been in place for week. I saw the beginning of the wall started form the front right and it was about right height. I then visited 2½ days later and it was 90% completed back and 2 sides so his job is now problematical.

He sayys for th back he will just add 2 bricks and that will work fine because he still has the upward post steel to that height (although the post being cemented in one go would have been better.

I have now done a simple CAD staggered style wall for the sides. (I am always loathe to put in example measurements because he (in his desire to please me) tends to copy exactly when I am only giving him an impression and leaving it to his expert /on site judgement.

My logic as he is using the usual concrete blocks is that her staggers one block layer at a time. i.e. if 2 metres are 6 blocks then when the wall rises to around 7 at a reinforced post he continues from 6 again.

I am using intelligent (I hope) guessing as I was an office clerk all my life and never anywhere near building work so I use what I read see and think .

Thank you for your input and your link -very interesting. Hope it continues smoothly.

Dave

[gdhm]

...As for workers falling off the second floor. Quite plainly they were drunk, workers do not fall with that frequency. Your GF will know the truth.

I had four workers that were drunk 15 days out of 30 each and every month. They were always falling off ladders and doing sloppy work. Get the drunks off the site they will cause problems down the line. The key to it is when the GF says "Pon have day off today", yea right drunk again. Drunkeness cost me 4 months on the project and probably an extra 500,000 baht in costs. It's a major major problem that you and I can not even begin to comprehend.

Get the plans correct and the house will be correct is a good maxim to follow, having said that the drawings they have here are so bad and bear no relation to the end product or what the building permit was issued for that the builder has to use his best judgment.

It's not easy but you can do it

Hi Rimmer,

Actually GF is my wife

Thanks for the input Its much appreciated. I have to say the Architect/Structural plans look to me superb and professional.

36 (A3 size) pages of diagrams, data instructions and specifications etc. They really do look "the biz" and not skimped in any way.

All I need now is to get is the final accurate version done (to match the one I have produced based on his 2nd draft) and to the builder to use as his bible (probably a bad word as he is Buddhist ).

My wife has made contact with the Architect's wife and my wishes are being taken on board. I have used a PC freeware program Photofiltre (picture editor EXCELLENT for what I wish to achieve). I just scanned the important plans pages down to A4 and then manipulated the drawing. Now I will yellow highlight all differences to help him (should be VERY easy for him then).

To be honest Uncle Inn does not drink at all. Never seen him try and I have looked around to see what the workers are drinking regularly. I can only ever see a certain type of bottle that my wife assures me is non alcoholic and is an energy drink.

Uncle Inn fell working at dusk and did not notice the edge. I told him I do not want workers working in risky light or if the heat is impossible for the work they are trying to do. The delay in building is no problem if to safeguard workers lives/health. I hoped this would remove any perceived pressure to complete.

The other fell by just stepping back too far and went over the edge. Drink does not appear to have been a cause.

My wife has just asked after him. He is not too good. He is still in Hospital and he does not want to sleep as he is afraid he may not wake up. His speech is very unclear. He has a neck collar and I am told some type of screw supports in his neck.

His family are with him and attending him all the time (the over worked, under staffed nurses seldom seem to do more than necessary).

I gather after he fell he sat and ate but seemed disorientated and then just slumped over. He should have been taken to the hospital immediately (even if he at first seemed OK)as he hit his head and shoulder area I understand. I later saw the impact site -quite a big dent in the hard clay soil so the impact was significant in non yielding soil (would have been even worse if we had not had rain in recent days as falling on sun baked clay is like falling on concrete.

I feel so very sad about this (slightly tearful in fact) its a terrible thing to have happened, even more that it happened during the building of MY house.

My wife and I are about to visit the worker in hospital with a little food etc. and a little money to help the family with extra costs of the family attending him. I am sure he is not being paid whilst not working and of course there is no Builders insurance in place. Its not only his injuries but also pressure on his family with bills that need paying.

I suggested to my wife to tell the Builder to stop building for a few hours and use the wood poles they have in abundance to build a perimeter upstairs about .5 metre to 1 metre from the edge. This would not stop them from falling due to its strength but at least if they are backing up then they will feel the perimeter comfortably before they reach the edge.

This of course is completely inadequate, but in a country where safety standards are so often ignored it is better than nothing at least it is a warning. The ladders used are bamboo poles with bamboo steps nailed across. Everybody seems to use these types of ladder in Isaan including the electricity company workers (amazing and scary)

Regards

Dave

[apetley]

...As for workers falling off the second floor. Quite plainly they were drunk, workers do not fall with that frequency. Your GF will know the truth.

I had four workers that were drunk 15 days out of 30 each and every month. They were always falling off ladders and doing sloppy work. Get the drunks off the site they will cause problems down the line. The key to it is when the GF says "Pon have day off today", yea right drunk again. Drunkeness cost me 4 months on the project and probably an extra 500,000 baht in costs. It's a major major problem that you and I can not even begin to comprehend.

Get the plans correct and the house will be correct is a good maxim to follow, having said that the drawings they have here are so bad and bear no relation to the end product or what the building permit was issued for that the builder has to use his best judgment.

It's not easy but you can do it

Hi Rimmer,

Actually GF is my wife

Thanks for the input Its much appreciated. I have to say the Architect/Structural plans look to me superb and professional.

36 (A3 size) pages of diagrams, data instructions and specifications etc. They really do look "the biz" and not skimped in any way.

All I need now is to get is the final accurate version done (to match the one I have produced based on his 2nd draft) and to the builder to use as his bible (probably a bad word as he is Buddhist ).

My wife has made contact with the Architect's wife and my wishes are being taken on board. I have used a PC freeware program Photofiltre (picture editor EXCELLENT for what I wish to achieve). I just scanned the important plans pages down to A4 and then manipulated the drawing. Now I will yellow highlight all differences to help him (should be VERY easy for him then).

To be honest Uncle Inn does not drink at all. Never seen him try and I have looked around to see what the workers are drinking regularly. I can only ever see a certain type of bottle that my wife assures me is non alcoholic and is an energy drink.

Uncle Inn fell working at dusk and did not notice the edge. I told him I do not want workers working in risky light or if the heat is impossible for the work they are trying to do. The delay in building is no problem if to safeguard workers lives/health. I hoped this would remove any perceived pressure to complete.

The other fell by just stepping back too far and went over the edge. Drink does not appear to have been a cause.

My wife has just asked after him. He is not too good. He is still in Hospital and he does not want to sleep as he is afraid he may not wake up. His speech is very unclear. He has a neck collar and I am told some type of screw supports in his neck.

His family are with him and attending him all the time (the over worked, under staffed nurses seldom seem to do more than necessary).

I gather after he fell he sat and ate but seemed disorientated and then just slumped over. He should have been taken to the hospital immediately (even if he at first seemed OK)as he hit his head and shoulder area I understand. I later saw the impact site -quite a big dent in the hard clay soil so the impact was significant in non yielding soil (would have been even worse if we had not had rain in recent days as falling on sun baked clay is like falling on concrete.

I feel so very sad about this (slightly tearful in fact) its a terrible thing to have happened, even more that it happened during the building of MY house.

My wife and I are about to visit the worker in hospital with a little food etc. and a little money to help the family with extra costs of the family attending him. I am sure he is not being paid whilst not working and of course there is no Builders insurance in place. Its not only his injuries but also pressure on his family with bills that need paying.

I suggested to my wife to tell the Builder to stop building for a few hours and use the wood poles they have in abundance to build a perimeter upstairs about .5 metre to 1 metre from the edge. This would not stop them from falling due to its strength but at least if they are backing up then they will feel the perimeter comfortably before they reach the edge.

This of course is completely inadequate, but in a country where safety standards are so often ignored it is better than nothing at least it is a warning. The ladders used are bamboo poles with bamboo steps nailed across. Everybody seems to use these types of ladder in Isaan including the electricity company workers (amazing and scary)

Regards

Dave

Crazy yes but at least I guess it provides some sort of insulation when leaned up against power lines! Wouldn't want to try that with an aluminium ladder.

Come to think about it I wouldn't try it with any ladder!

[JustinCredible]

The other fell by just stepping back too far and went over the edge. Drink does not appear to have been a cause.

My wife has just asked after him. He is not too good. He is still in Hospital and he does not want to sleep as he is afraid he may not wake up. His speech is very unclear. He has a neck collar and I am told some type of screw supports in his neck.

His family are with him and attending him all the time (the over worked, under staffed nurses seldom seem to do more than necessary).

I gather after he fell he sat and ate but seemed disorientated and then just slumped over. He should have been taken to the hospital immediately (even if he at first seemed OK)as he hit his head and shoulder area I understand. I later saw the impact site -quite a big dent in the hard clay soil so the impact was significant in non yielding soil (would have been even worse if we had not had rain in recent days as falling on sun baked clay is like falling on concrete.

I feel so very sad about this (slightly tearful in fact) its a terrible thing to have happened, even more that it happened during the building of MY house.

My wife and I are about to visit the worker in hospital with a little food etc. and a little money to help the family with extra costs of the family attending him. I am sure he is not being paid whilst not working and of course there is no Builders insurance in place. Its not only his injuries but also pressure on his family with bills that need paying.

I suggested to my wife to tell the Builder to stop building for a few hours and use the wood poles they have in abundance to build a perimeter upstairs about .5 metre to 1 metre from the edge. This would not stop them from falling due to its strength but at least if they are backing up then they will feel the perimeter comfortably before they reach the edge.

This of course is completely inadequate, but in a country where safety standards are so often ignored it is better than nothing at least it is a warning. The ladders used are bamboo poles with bamboo steps nailed across. Everybody seems to use these types of ladder in Isaan including the electricity company workers (amazing and scary)

Regards

Dave

I hope that you personally have some type of insurance. It sounds like he and the family have a very strong case to sue somebody. It will not be the builder, but the "rich falang"......

[gdhm]

I hope that you personally have some type of insurance. It sounds like he and the family have a very strong case to sue somebody. It will not be the builder, but the "rich falang"......

We have no insurance. To be honest (even with the Rich Farang approach) I fail to see how we can be sued successfully as we personally are not building the house but have contracted a proper (small) proper builder (be he family) to do so. I even drew up a simple contract so it is clear the builder is building the house for us. All workmen employed and decisions are the Builders.

We are not building the house and overseeing or responsible for the building work or who gets hired to do what if you understand the distinction I am trying to make.

Anyway, we have just got back from hospital and it is not good poor man. What he and his daughter-in-law told us is:

He has a cracked skull (needed fluid draining from around his brain to ease pressure), broken neck and back. We don't know how bad yet. I am no doctor but he can feel and move all his fingers and toes and move his arms and legs. I think and pray that is a very good sign and that the spinal cord is not damaged. He is speaking clearly and lucidly. He is not being allowed to eat or drink because the doctor is undecided if to operate or not.

All he workman was worried about was letting us down and maybe causing a delay to our house completion. I told him no house is worth any workers injuries and for me safety No.1, completion No.2. When my wife's Uncle fell off last week working at dusk I told him then if it is too dark, too hot or unsafe then go with the safe and slower "wait another day" approach and that completion speed was not on my mind is and we can flex for a month or two. The trouble is even minor suggestions I have made are ignored but I have no authority. I think they should wear protective helmets and shoes but even with big group building up here these are not used.

Sadly, "I am spitting in the Wind" and we all regretfully know the consequences.

Dave

[Lite Beer]

Dave. You will never change the way they work. Just let them get on with it their way.

You just worry about the standard of work. Thats enough for you to worry about.

[egg6447]

an aproach i use, i stumbled on this by chance. several years ago i had some glass blocks installed. asked spesifficaly, have you laid glass blocks before. yesyesyes. maipenrai. ok go for it. when i check said job, it looked like a disused graveyard, blocks always. we had a chat that was going nowere. okok take them down , i,ll teach you how to lay glass blocks.. now this was an afront to his pride and proffesionalism, i can do, i can do . ok you do , he did and i learnt to use this ploy every time, still use it now when nessesary 7yrs later. however i did tell a plumber to get of sight before xmas, and told eveyone else to stop trying to feed me bull sh**. i also told them to test the water pipes that would be under concrete, they assured me they had. i was sure they hadn,t. sure enough ,months later when the water is conected 8 leaks under the concrete in walls ect. now what amazes me is they never loose face over these things yet its all falangs hear about. have to lovem dontcha.

[egg6447]

oh, ive never found the plans thing to be a problem as anything ive ever brought up is cleared up with a stroke of the pen by the architect. it seems to me once the outside dimentions are agreed all else is ,,,up to u ,as they say . haveing said this ive always been on site most of the time so it sits well for me that thai are very flexable at times. remind them , they did say uptou.

[PadThaiGuy]

Only drinking Energy drinks?

They sell YaDong in those little bottles too.

[jstumbo]

When my wife's Uncle fell off last week working at dusk I told him then if it is too dark, too hot or unsafe then go with the safe and slower "wait another day" approach and that completion speed was not on my mind is and we can flex for a month or two.

I imagine that you are paying a flat fee for the house to be built? Or at least a flat fee for the labor part of it? If the builder takes 1-2 months longer to build the house, he has to work 2 months longer for the same amount of money, or less, because he would need to pay the workers for the addional 2 months also.