How Much Do You Pay Your Thai Fiance's Mom?

[jumnien]

I've been married 5 years. When my wife's mother lived with us after our baby was born I gave her 10,000 baht per month for that year. And occassionally I've paid some medical bills. I feel generous with her as she has been with me. By contrast, I give my mother back home in the US about 60,000 baht/month.

[mellow1]

I've been married 5 years. When my wife's mother lived with us after our baby was born I gave her 10,000 baht per month for that year. And occassionally I've paid some medical bills. I feel generous with her as she has been with me. By contrast, I give my mother back home in the US about 60,000 baht/month.

I bet we are now going to have about 10 pages of people who give more than you to their mother, mother in law, father in law, nieces and nephews, aunts, uncles, cousins, support entire villages of people they don't even know, etc.. This of course makes them a better person than you, and for sure much better than people like myself, who feels that everyone has to support themselves. This doesn't mean that if a family member is in trouble or in a pinch I wouldn't give help if possible, but to make monthly payments?

[AFKAFSinLOS]

....

4] Most Thai regard 10,000 baht (+/- 2,000 or so depending where) per month salary as doing great

...

Some sensible advice in your post.

Have to say though, that 10k these days is not a lot for a professional BKK salary, particularly if MNC or foreign owned. Most professional Thais with a degree of any sorts in the several companies I've worked for, have earned more than that. Some considerably more so.

The only people ever working for me in that salary range, have been more manual orientated jobs such as messengers and maids.

[jstumbo]

Okay, the issue has been resolved.

I want to thank each and every one of you for your comments. Even the sarcastic ones, which only make for good reading. So here goes,

I offered to pay her mama $8-10K Baht per month for 3 years. My first offer and she was very happy and informed me her mother would be happy as well. I guess I should have gone lower....hmmm. I'm not at all certain how she was fine with that so quickly, but she was. Thank my lucky stars it was that easy $320 over 3 years yields and NPV of under US$4K at 8% - unless I get hammered by that F*#@%&^ exchange rate.

I can live with it

I think you need to check your net present value calcs

THB 8k a month is THB 96k a year. At a rate of say THB 32 (nice round number) vs USD 1 that's USD 3k a year. This is before discounting.

For 3 years that's THB 288k or USD 9k before discounting. No way would an 8% discount factor reduce that to USD4k.

Depending on whether payment is in advance or arrears it comes out more at USD8k as an NPV for these 3 year cashflows. THB 10k a month would obviously be higher.

I won't comment on the implications of this for someone who allegedly was a former CFO and has an MBA...and the implications for the thread...

Yeah, you got me. Using the NPV was the wrong method. I'm loosing it......

PV (arrears), $300, 8%, 36 months, = $9,600. dam_n, I hate when I do that

Sorry everyone, I more than double my outlay

Maybe you can renegotiate and get a sister or cousin thrown in for the extra outlay?

[jfchandler]

"I won't comment on the implications of this (his miscalculating NPV of his spending) for someone who allegedly was a former CFO and has an MBA...and the implications for the thread... "

I know one thing for sure... I'm not hiring him to prepare my income tax returns this year!!!!!

[hanibal7]

The ones who give big money are the ones who are cocking it up for the more clever farangs.The thais were living ok before us whities came with our big dosh.Will not even talk to the part timers who are earning an income and come here acting like rich people when they have eff all realy.

As they say here up to you what you do but dont come on here thinking you are clever and good natured,when in fact you are being stitched up big style and then the family are dependant on the bigger money due to their overheads inc gambling,borrowingmoney,drinking,hire purchase on a car etc.

Its not big or clever to give them money unless its life threatening.

[burman]

The ones who give big money are the ones who are cocking it up for the more clever farangs.

How?

[easer]

As usual these threads become very long and are dominated by people that try to convince eachother who know more about Thailand and Thai-culture. I started a thread some wile ago on the same subject and with similar responses. I try not to repeat to much but just ad my 2 cents:

Farangs living in Thailand have to adjust to Thai-behavior and respect Thai traditions and Thai-culture off course. But a man and a woman from diffrent parts of the world marrying with eachother have to respect eachother. Thats love. Offcourse there will be many issues. How to do with Thai-family, how to take care off your own chidren, and so on. These traditions are different in the western world than here, and a farang/thai-couple is not necessary only to go by Thai rules. In Europe the womans family pay the wedding. Or at least the 2 families share. Here the man should pay the mom of the bride to marry her daughter. If a woman loves you she is ready to understand that a fair agreement is something in between. No money. Not from her mom and not to her mom. Thats a 50/50 solution. My wife, and all my friends Thai wives had no problem with this what so ever. Neither did their famylies. A Thaigirl bringing this "sin sod"-crap to a farang as a "you want to marry in Thailand this is it" is imho true gold-diggers. And also they are obviously unaware of the fact that Thailand has 45 miljon girls and most of them willing to marry farangs. Maybe their men are unaware of that fact to?

[AFKAFSinLOS]

... A Thaigirl bringing this "sin sod"-crap to a farang as a "you want to marry in Thailand this is it" is imho true gold-diggers. And also they are obviously unaware of the fact that Thailand has 45 miljon girls and most of them willing to marry farangs. Maybe their men are unaware of that fact to?

45 mio "girls" out of a population of around 62 mio. I knew there was something I liked about this country

Or could it simply be that you prefer "a little extra" on your "girls" and are counting a few the rest of us wouldn't

[easer]

... A Thaigirl bringing this "sin sod"-crap to a farang as a "you want to marry in Thailand this is it" is imho true gold-diggers. And also they are obviously unaware of the fact that Thailand has 45 miljon girls and most of them willing to marry farangs. Maybe their men are unaware of that fact to?

45 mio "girls" out of a population of around 62 mio. I knew there was something I liked about this country

Or could it simply be that you prefer "a little extra" on your "girls" and are counting a few the rest of us wouldn't

Ok, little wrong estimation then. Actually i never counted at all, im not in the group where you and "the rest of you" are.

Offcourse the motivation "im the only one for you" is a biggie around the girls you pay for and i somehow figured that the men that pay up beleive women are hard to find and that they are lucky with the only available one. Makes complete sence. Thanks for educating me how "the rest of you" actually think.

[distortedlink]

When will they ever learn?

You`re being suckered in mate. Just keep your head down, continue sending the money and you will be alright.

There are Thai families out there who have made seperating Farangs from their assets into an industry and if there are idiots willing to support this industry, good luck to the scammers.

Edited April 30, 2008 by distortedlink

[easer]

When will they ever learn?

You`re being suckered in mate. Just keep your head down, continue sending the money and you will be alright.

There are Thai families out there who have made seperating Farangs from their assets into an industry and if there are idiots willing to support this industry, good luck to the scammers.

Couldn´t say it better myself! Total agreement and i second everything you say, nice put!!!

Also lets ad the thing that all the people that "pay up" (at least the 100-something i met) have in common: Old man, young pretty girl. Offcourse if your wife is 30 or more years younger than you, for her it can never be anything but a buisnessdeal and you better pay up! Girls dont fall in love with 30 year older men even over here, what they can "fall in love with" is the idea of somebody taking care of both her and her family so her responsibility is over and she can spend the time watching tv all day instead of working. "Sin sod" is a word mostly used by farangs who cant speak thai but feel proud that they know that word. And that they learned "thai-culture". Stopped counting the number of times i heard a thai-girl say "phasa thai ka?" to a farangman and he answers with all the thai he knows: "nit noi".

Thats the man that marries a year later and thats the man that by then know the "sin sod" aswell.

Take it for what it is.

[torrenova]

Somewhere between 50.000 to 200.000 Bath

Thats a bit on the low side for monthly payments.

Especially for a go-go girl. Have you seen the price of rice these days ? :D

[jmapodaca]

"I won't comment on the implications of this (his miscalculating NPV of his spending) for someone who allegedly was a former CFO and has an MBA...and the implications for the thread... "

I know one thing for sure... I'm not hiring him to prepare my income tax returns this year!!!!!

That would be wise of you. I don't do taxes, nor do a majority of CPA's !!!

[Prakanong]

I've been married 5 years. When my wife's mother lived with us after our baby was born I gave her 10,000 baht per month for that year. And occassionally I've paid some medical bills. I feel generous with her as she has been with me. By contrast, I give my mother back home in the US about 60,000 baht/month.

Now I find that interesting - you giving your mum back home money. I wonder what % of westerners do -I have had colleagues and Asian friends asking quietly about giving money to my mum etc and asking about filial piety etc and I am sure they would be interested as this discussion comes up every so often.

I explain I give nothing to my Mum - she lives on income support actually as she never qualified for the full state pension. It accepted that we in the west have a different culture. Of course when I am home I slip her a wad and take her to places she could never afford to go to - if she asked me for money she needed for an emergency etc it would be there but the thought of a regular amount either in my head or her's is just not countenanced.

[Heng]

No wonder this thread is so popular. It's a disguised dowry thread.

[jumnien]

I've been married 5 years. When my wife's mother lived with us after our baby was born I gave her 10,000 baht per month for that year. And occassionally I've paid some medical bills. I feel generous with her as she has been with me. By contrast, I give my mother back home in the US about 60,000 baht/month.

Now I find that interesting - you giving your mum back home money. I wonder what % of westerners do -I have had colleagues and Asian friends asking quietly about giving money to my mum etc and asking about filial piety etc and I am sure they would be interested as this discussion comes up every so often.

I explain I give nothing to my Mum - she lives on income support actually as she never qualified for the full state pension. It accepted that we in the west have a different culture. Of course when I am home I slip her a wad and take her to places she could never afford to go to - if she asked me for money she needed for an emergency etc it would be there but the thought of a regular amount either in my head or her's is just not countenanced.

When my mom had money and I didn't, especially those first 17 years she gave me what she could spare. Now that I have money and she has less, I give her some. It brings me a greater joy to give my mother money every month, really to ensure her security, than it would be to spend an extra two thousand dollars on myself. Same goes to sharing with my Thai mother in law.

[Prakanong]

I've been married 5 years. When my wife's mother lived with us after our baby was born I gave her 10,000 baht per month for that year. And occassionally I've paid some medical bills. I feel generous with her as she has been with me. By contrast, I give my mother back home in the US about 60,000 baht/month.

Now I find that interesting - you giving your mum back home money. I wonder what % of westerners do -I have had colleagues and Asian friends asking quietly about giving money to my mum etc and asking about filial piety etc and I am sure they would be interested as this discussion comes up every so often.

I explain I give nothing to my Mum - she lives on income support actually as she never qualified for the full state pension. It accepted that we in the west have a different culture. Of course when I am home I slip her a wad and take her to places she could never afford to go to - if she asked me for money she needed for an emergency etc it would be there but the thought of a regular amount either in my head or her's is just not countenanced.

When my mom had money and I didn't, especially those first 17 years she gave me what she could spare. Now that I have money and she has less, I give her some. It brings me a greater joy to give my mother money every month, really to ensure her security, than it would be to spend an extra two thousand dollars on myself. Same goes to sharing with my Thai mother in law.

I totally understand the reasoning - just in our family it never comes up and my sister now lives with my Mum again and helps out with most things too.

I know when I do give her something 99% of it is spent on her two grandchildren - I give them money too so might as well give it all direct ;-))

Edited May 1, 2008 by Prakanong

[Theyreallrubbish]

I always think that it's a bit sad when people refer to other people in regards to the ethnic/national group they belong to rather than to them as individuals. Thai girls are just as unique and individual as people from other countries, and to think otherwise is just ignorance.

Do I understand you correctly? The cultural norms of the "individual's" native country are VERY IMPORTANT to the issue at hand. A THai girl is most definitely different than an American girl, or English girl, or many others. To think otherwise is more than just a tad naive.

Okay, I'm the OP......

Yes, I am giving this young lady $500 a month to help her and her parents. But let's look at like this way....I have dated women here in the US (Accountants, Doctors, normal every-day women, etc.). One thing I can say for certain. Women in the US (perhaps particularly in Los Angeles) have expectations that are considerably higher than this young Thai lady (at least for now) and have cost me in real dollar terms an enormous amount of money.

This young Thai lady is very nice and treats me well. So does her family. Blinded or not, after 42 years on this planet, American women aren't my first choice for marriage and kids. $500 a month to this Thai young lady is nothing in comparison. Everyone one of us guys out there is paying money to women in one form or another. If you're not, she won't be around long……

There are certainly differences in culture. You either accept them or you don't. If you plan on marrying someone from onother culture then expect to learn different ways of livng.

A couple things I'm sure you've thought of, but need to consider. What's she going to do when you are working? School, shopping malls, watching Jerry Springer or ? She won't be able to work legally for a while, so she needs something to pass her time. What's she going to do about friends? Where would she make some friends if you are going to keep her away from Thai town? Is she educated, does she speak good English and has she travelled to other parts of the world, or not? If the answer is little to none to the above three items, then there will be some SERIOUS cuture shock.

The corporate customers might not react very well, I can tell you now they will think the worst, & it is hardly conducive to good 'networking' if you have to explain that 'no, despite what you are thinking, my wife is not a whore'.

"Although I paid her family $500 a month, but I've signed a 2 year lease that has brought the cost down to $300 a month."

Anyone else predict this marriage will last 25 months?

Probably less as she'll hook up with another American guy who's willing to pay more once she's in the US.

[Newbee]

Anyone else predict this marriage will last 25 months?

3 months to get wed, 12-18 month to get a green card.

So my prediction is no less than 15-21 months...

[huggybear]

I always think that it's a bit sad when people refer to other people in regards to the ethnic/national group they belong to rather than to them as individuals. Thai girls are just as unique and individual as people from other countries, and to think otherwise is just ignorance.

Do I understand you correctly? The cultural norms of the "individual's" native country are VERY IMPORTANT to the issue at hand. A THai girl is most definitely different than an American girl, or English girl, or many others. To think otherwise is more than just a tad naive.

Okay, I'm the OP......

Yes, I am giving this young lady $500 a month to help her and her parents. But let's look at like this way....I have dated women here in the US (Accountants, Doctors, normal every-day women, etc.). One thing I can say for certain. Women in the US (perhaps particularly in Los Angeles) have expectations that are considerably higher than this young Thai lady (at least for now) and have cost me in real dollar terms an enormous amount of money.

This young Thai lady is very nice and treats me well. So does her family. Blinded or not, after 42 years on this planet, American women aren't my first choice for marriage and kids. $500 a month to this Thai young lady is nothing in comparison. Everyone one of us guys out there is paying money to women in one form or another. If you're not, she won't be around long……

There are certainly differences in culture. You either accept them or you don't. If you plan on marrying someone from onother culture then expect to learn different ways of livng.

A couple things I'm sure you've thought of, but need to consider. What's she going to do when you are working? School, shopping malls, watching Jerry Springer or ? She won't be able to work legally for a while, so she needs something to pass her time. What's she going to do about friends? Where would she make some friends if you are going to keep her away from Thai town? Is she educated, does she speak good English and has she travelled to other parts of the world, or not? If the answer is little to none to the above three items, then there will be some SERIOUS cuture shock.

The corporate customers might not react very well, I can tell you now they will think the worst, & it is hardly conducive to good 'networking' if you have to explain that 'no, despite what you are thinking, my wife is not a whore'.

"Although I paid her family $500 a month, but I've signed a 2 year lease that has brought the cost down to $300 a month."

Anyone else predict this marriage will last 25 months?

Probably less as she'll hook up with another American guy who's willing to pay more once she's in the US.

over / under bets anybody?

Maybe we can get the OP to keep us updated and we run a poll

[Strap]

Im still wondering why he would be paying a monthly arranged 'sin Sot' when there not having a Thai wedding?

to me that would be the first time I ever heard of a ceremony without the bride and groom being in the country?

He said there getting married in the usa right or did i miss something?

So why pay anything? There is not going to be a tray with cash and gold to show around to the neighbors.

Or are you just paying monthly for your wifes family out of compassion?

either way hope it works out for you.

[jayjayjayjay]

Okay, the issue has been resolved.

I want to thank each and every one of you for your comments. Even the sarcastic ones, which only make for good reading. So here goes,

I offered to pay her mama $8-10K Baht per month for 3 years. My first offer and she was very happy and informed me her mother would be happy as well. I guess I should have gone lower....hmmm. I'm not at all certain how she was fine with that so quickly, but she was. Thank my lucky stars it was that easy $320 over 3 years yields and NPV of under US$4K at 8% - unless I get hammered by that F*#@%&^ exchange rate.

I can live with it

I think you need to check your net present value calcs

THB 8k a month is THB 96k a year. At a rate of say THB 32 (nice round number) vs USD 1 that's USD 3k a year. This is before discounting.

For 3 years that's THB 288k or USD 9k before discounting. No way would an 8% discount factor reduce that to USD4k.

Depending on whether payment is in advance or arrears it comes out more at USD8k as an NPV for these 3 year cashflows. THB 10k a month would obviously be higher.

I won't comment on the implications of this for someone who allegedly was a former CFO and has an MBA...and the implications for the thread...

Yeah, you got me. Using the NPV was the wrong method. I'm loosing it......

PV (arrears), $300, 8%, 36 months, = $9,600. dam_n, I hate when I do that

Sorry everyone, I more than double my outlay

Maybe you can renegotiate and get a sister or cousin thrown in for the extra outlay?

Edited May 2, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[jayjayjayjay]

To the OP JM I have learnt from your mistakes so if it turns pear shaped for you, rest assured you have educated me a little on how not to approach the situation.

To JayJay, last time I was in Bangers I was chatting with a lovely lady who had a similar deal going, Rich German guy, comes to Bangkok once every three months for a week or two when he comes he brings a couple hundred thousand baht for said lady, he has bought her a brand new car as well, all she has to do is spend that short amount of time with him, she tells me that she gets board easy and that he was no fun and she flicked him, I am like you are crazy, she responds there are plenty more who are willing to do the same thing and I will find a new guy. So JayJay when are we going into business.

Rick75, sorry, I was quiet for a couple of days, been busy with the business plan. I figure is could be a dollar millionaire by Christmas and Euro millionaire by Easter 2008 and have enough to retire on by mid year 2009. I'll let you know when co's registration is done. Still can't think of an appropriate name......... ........... .................... .................

............... suggestions welcome..........

[Heng]

Those who pay a bit (in cash) and then get ripped are getting off easy. The ones who take substantial losses from investing heavily in real estate in their spouse's name are the ones I feel sorry for. It's fine for one person but then another person thinks it should be okay for him/her too... they take the plunge, buy up a lot of property and instead they lose their shirt/pants.

[mixed]

Those who pay a bit (in cash) and then get ripped are getting off easy. The ones who take substantial losses from investing heavily in real estate in their spouse's name are the ones I feel sorry for. It's fine for one person but then another person thinks it should be okay for him/her too... they take the plunge, buy up a lot of property and instead they lose their shirt/pants.

Do you think weatlhy Thai men avoid registering their marriage because of the rights it gives to their spouses in the case of divorce?

Let's say you had a farang friend who'd been living with a woman for at least 5 years and had a child together. You know the couple well, they are of similar age, both working and you don't see the woman as a gold digger. The farang wants to buy land/house because he's thinking of his kid's future. What advice would you give him?

[Heng]

Those who pay a bit (in cash) and then get ripped are getting off easy. The ones who take substantial losses from investing heavily in real estate in their spouse's name are the ones I feel sorry for. It's fine for one person but then another person thinks it should be okay for him/her too... they take the plunge, buy up a lot of property and instead they lose their shirt/pants.

Do you think weatlhy Thai men avoid registering their marriage because of the rights it gives to their spouses in the case of divorce?

Let's say you had a farang friend who'd been living with a woman for at least 5 years and had a child together. You know the couple well, they are of similar age, both working and you don't see the woman as a gold digger. The farang wants to buy land/house because he's thinking of his kid's future. What advice would you give him?

Some wealthy folks register their marriages and some do not for all sorts of reasons. Not that I'm wealthy, but my wife and I do not have our marriage registered, but mostly just to maintain the political peace between our two families for now until we are closer to the helm of our respective families. My folks still are not registered in Thailand and her parents legally got married in their 50's (30 years after their traditional marriage ceremony). When both families are active in business and are still actively acquiring property and assets, sometimes this is the better way... it shows that "we aren't interested in the least in the assets on your side of the family as we are for the most part different legal entities." Still, my wife and I buy every other property: my name, her name, joint (mine AND hers) name because we really do intend to spend the rest of our lives together and want to ensure that our children have a solid foundation to build on.

As for the "my farang friend" case, I take these cases one at a time. If the couple appears to be in a solid relationship, I'd recommend a mix of local/offshore if possible properties and local/offshore fixed income assets. Another option is holding back until the child is of legal age and making him/her the primary asset holder (with a lot of financial responsibility actively taught along the way since a young age of course). I tweak the recommended "mix" depending on my opinion of each person involved.

[jmapodaca]

To the OP JM I have learnt from your mistakes so if it turns pear shaped for you, rest assured you have educated me a little on how not to approach the situation.

To JayJay, last time I was in Bangers I was chatting with a lovely lady who had a similar deal going, Rich German guy, comes to Bangkok once every three months for a week or two when he comes he brings a couple hundred thousand baht for said lady, he has bought her a brand new car as well, all she has to do is spend that short amount of time with him, she tells me that she gets board easy and that he was no fun and she flicked him, I am like you are crazy, she responds there are plenty more who are willing to do the same thing and I will find a new guy. So JayJay when are we going into business.

Rick75, sorry, I was quiet for a couple of days, been busy with the business plan. I figure is could be a dollar millionaire by Christmas and Euro millionaire by Easter 2008 and have enough to retire on by mid year 2009. I'll let you know when co's registration is done. Still can't think of an appropriate name......... ........... .................... .................

............... suggestions welcome..........

Another business idea could be to host a website that list all the names of Thai women ripping of the Farang. A modest payment to Farang's that participate by providing con artists names and a larger fee for Farang that would like to do a background check..............

If this is as big as folks say, it could be a winner.

[dsfbrit]

5 years ago the weeding Dowry was around 50000 Baht and I of course picked up the bill for the whole wedding.

I put this money in a nice gold gift card I spent quite a time finding. The mother ripped the card to shreds in her haste at getting to the money - I realised then that she had never seen that much money in her life before.

I also pay the in-laws 7000 Baht a month as a 'pension'.

I wasn't asked to pay the pension, but they are old and poor and I wanted to do so. I thought that if I did this, that it would stop any requests for money for a sick cow or whatever.

Since I started the pension 2 years ago, its been fantastic. Not a single request for additional cash!

Godd Luck with the wedding.

[Sing_Sling]

Isn't it nice that your bride-to-be and her family are already lying to you . . . must make for a happy life together in the future.

The naivety/stupidity of grown men never ceases to amaze me, nor does the avarice and greed of others.

A nation of es

Edited May 2, 2008 by Sing_Sling