New Baby In Thailand - Nationality?

[JohnCarp]

Hi all

My son is British and is getting married to a Thai in July. They will be having a baby who will be born in Thailand and live permanently in Thailand later this year.

Can anyone advise what will be the situation regarding nationalilty of the baby?. Ideally my son would like the baby to have both Thai and British Nationality, is this possible and if so how do you go about it?

Thanks for any help

[Boo]

yes both nationalities are possible, just get thai bc & passport when son is born then go to the British Embassy & get the Uk ones too. Is pretty straightforward. Do a search on this section, it has been covered a lot.

Congratualtions

[torrenova]

For the UK passport your son will need his full length birth certificate as well as easily obtainable other documents but they will send it to you here in Thailand from the UK. You can do it online. The Thai passport will require both parents to go to the office (say in bangkok ).

You have the choice to pay the UK government a whopping 15k or so to register the baby but it is not necessary for a passport or nationality.

[coventry]

In Thai law, dual nationality isn't recognised and at the age of 18 one has to decide one way or the other on their nationality. So I believe.

[Boo]

you beleive wrong. please see the many threads in the forum covering this. It is only males, who at 21, will need to enter the ballot for military service but even that is avoidable & there is no need to give up other nationality to do so.

[2008bangkok]

For the UK passport your son will need his full length birth certificate as well as easily obtainable other documents but they will send it to you here in Thailand from the UK. You can do it online. The Thai passport will require both parents to go to the office (say in bangkok ).

You have the choice to pay the UK government a whopping 15k or so to register the baby but it is not necessary for a passport or nationality.

im been reading many thread on this icluding my own but could somebody explain why you have to register the baby if you can get a passport and nationality anyway and what the benefit is....mine 1st boy will be ariving in a coulple of months and im none the wiser..i dont really want to pay the nice chappies in the embassy 15k of my hard earned if its not necessary

[Boo]

Is it to get a UK birth certificate & for the birth to be registered at St Catherines House??? Otherwise I can't see the point either.

[2008bangkok]

Is it to get a UK birth certificate & for the birth to be registered at St Catherines House??? Otherwise I can't see the point either.

Thanks Boo..i that it....can i not just go to coventry where my birth was registered the next time i fancy a holiday to the artic??

[2008bangkok]

and would you believe it just as i right coventry..i see somebody is reading it with the handle coventry.... ha ha how weird

[Mossfinn]

you beleive wrong. please see the many threads in the forum covering this. It is only males, who at 21, will need to enter the ballot for military service but even that is avoidable & there is no need to give up other nationality to do so.

Gotta to go with Boo on this one

But you would be right in thinking that it wasn't always this way, but it is now, as Boo has said their are plenty of treads on this, do a search with the emphasis on Samran and you will get more info.

Moss

[coventry]

you beleive wrong. please see the many threads in the forum covering this. It is only males, who at 21, will need to enter the ballot for military service but even that is avoidable & there is no need to give up other nationality to do so.

I've read on other forums that I'm correct and also on other web sites www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_THAILAND.html for one, up dated prior to March 2001. On others there's a difference as opinion. Has anyone an upto date web site that states different ?

[Boo]

we have many people including one of our moderators who are duel thai/western nationality. None have had to give up any nationality at 18 years of age. My own son is a duel national & no one mentioned on getting his thai passport in london that there would be any issue with both.

Do a search in the visa sections & forum in general as it has been covered hundreds of times already.

[samran]

the law gives you the option of making a choice between ages 20 and 21 to choose, but there is no compulsion, and no penalty if no choice is made.

I've got both, and am waaaaaaaay over 20 and travel on both passports very regularly.

[coventry]

the law gives you the option of making a choice between ages 20 and 21 to choose, but there is no compulsion, and no penalty if no choice is made.

I've got both, and am waaaaaaaay over 20 and travel on both passports very regularly.

When a Thai national applies for an ID card or passport there's a question on the form which asks " are you a national of any other country ? " By not being honest in that question you are committing an offence which can negate ones passport or ID card. Or once again am I not correct ?

[Boo]

why would you not be honest & put yes? Samran has not said he hasn't specifed both only that you are given the choice to choose & that it is not compulsory to give either one up.

There are literally thousands of dual nationals with thai & other passports functioning without issues.

[coventry]

I agree but when the shit hits the fan someone always looks for the cop out clause. As for not being honest. Thailand doesn't recognise dual nationality. By entering that you are a national of another country I'm sure you'd be denide a passport or ID card after you are 18 until you decide. I assume Samram and all the other dual nationalities are being a little dishonest with the truth and have never declared dual nationality to the Thai government. I don't blame them but the law is the law.

Edited May 13, 2008 by coventry

[Boo]

article from the Phukette gazette 2004 - here

“Section 13 of the Citizenship Act 1965 stipulates that a female Thai national who marries a foreigner and is later granted citizenship by her foreign husband’s home country shall maintain her Thai nationality.

There is no Thai law that stipulates that she must lose her Thai citizenship. However, she may choose to revoke her Thai citizenship, a decision the Thai government will announce the Government Gazette.

For Thai children with dual nationality, the Citizenship Act (3rd issue) 1992 states that a Thai national with a foreign father may declare his or her intention to revoke Thai nationality within the year following the child’s 20th birthday.

The law does not mention that the child will automatically have his or her Thai citizenship revoked. If the child does not declare his or her intention to revoke Thai citizenship, that child will still hold Thai nationality.”

Monday, April 12, 2004 Satchaphand Atthakor, Deputy Director-General, Consular Affairs Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

[samran]

the law gives you the option of making a choice between ages 20 and 21 to choose, but there is no compulsion, and no penalty if no choice is made.

I've got both, and am waaaaaaaay over 20 and travel on both passports very regularly.

When a Thai national applies for an ID card or passport there's a question on the form which asks " are you a national of any other country ? " By not being honest in that question you are committing an offence which can negate ones passport or ID card. Or once again am I not correct ?

no you are not correct.

The Thai passport application 'form' is about three lines long. It asks for your name, ID card number and your signature, and that is about it. The passport details come off the central database where the 'tabieen baan' data is located.

As for applying for an ID card. I can't remember such a question being on the form. You simply have to supply proof of Thai nationality - via being on the tabieen baan or birth certificate etc. I've also been through the official proceedure of being reporting, and then discharged from national service responsobilities. Again, no questioning.

My mother actually, who is a dual thai-australian national who has lived in OZ since 1970, applied for her first ID card in about 40 years 3 weeks ago. I was there with her and no questions were asked of her.

My wife, who I've just applied for Thai nationality, was not asked to give up her NZ passport as part of the process. Indeed, when the interviewer at the national police HQ in BKK asked about my siblings, he essentially asked me "so your older sister lives in France? So she is probably naturalised as French, but is she still also Thai?" The answer was, yes of course.

I agree but when the shit hits the fan someone always looks for the cop out clause. As for not being honest. Thailand doesn't recognise dual nationality. By entering that you are a national of another country I'm sure you'd be denide a passport or ID card after you are 18 until you decide. I assume Samram and all the other dual nationalities are being a little dishonest with the truth and have never declared dual nationality to the Thai government. I don't blame them but the law is the law.

You assume wrong.

While I've always said to other posters not to disclose the fact that they are a dual nationals - it is because many officials especially, do not know that the law was changed in 1992 which in effect opened up the possibility for thai nationality.

Having said that, I have declared a couple of times that I am a dual national.

The first time was entering Thailand on my Thai passport for the first time (which was issued outside of Thailand). I was asked how did I leave the last country, and I showed my Australian passport. After a bit of questioning with the senior officer (who knows the rules), I was stamped in on my Thai passport.

The second and last time, was when I applied to be put the tabieen baan for the first time at age 30. The lady asked me if I still had Australian citizenship given I was born there. Knowing my rights, I said "yes". She said she'd have to check it out if it was OK for me to have both, and rang immigration to find out. It goes without saying that my tabieen baan was processed soon thereafter. Having said that, there was no question on any form as far as I recall.

If I have to again, I'll declare it publically. I'm not worried about anything.....

[2008bangkok]

Sorry to butt in but has anybody got a definate on registaring the birth..no need?? can i do it later in the UK?

[samran]

Sorry to butt in but has anybody got a definate on registaring the birth..no need?? can i do it later in the UK?

you'll need to contact the relevant embassies to see what the standard proceedures are.

If born to at least one thai parent, the child will automatically be thai, but they'll also need their 'foreign' passport issued here in BKK before they travel so that they are allowed to enter their parents country visa free and without restriction (in addition to the Thai passport which is used to depart and then re-enter Thailand).

[JohnCarp]

Thanks for the help

Ille get my son to read this.

Cheers

John

[Marisa]

Having read the posts I am not sure what the final answer is. I hope the below might help?

I can tell you my experience. My father is Thai and my mother HK Chinese. 30 odd years ago they both met in the UK where my father eventually obtained UK nationality and my mother, being from HK didnt really have to do anything. When I was born in the UK I was registered as a UK citizen and my Thai father and Chinese mother went to the Thai Embassy in the UK to register my birth as Thai citizen too.

I didnt come back to Thailand until I was 25 - 3 years ago! So I didnt have any house registration or Thai ID card. But I still had my Thai birth certificate (plus my renewed Thai passport which I had never actually used because I only mainly travelled within Europe). I used my relatives house registration as additional proof.

I obtained my ID card with no problem. The officials did ask questions but just to understand my situation. (It doesnt help that I dont speak, read or write Thai) or that I dont look 100% Thai!

Anyway, even now when I travel between Thailand and the UK I just show both passports when they ask why I dont have a visa for the UK or other countries that would ordinarily ask for it if travelling on a Thai passport. Doesnt seem to be a problem to hold dual nationality. It mostly depends on the countries in question. If for example you were Singaporean - US it might be different. But personally have never had a problem with Thai-British.

My words of advice would be to obtain as much proof as possible pertaining to your son's nationality, his wifes nationality too. And also for your grandson or (grand) children in the future.

The reason is, because things change. You never know what you need to prove and often once the time has passed you cannot go back in time to get these documents. The UK is becoming increasingly strict on proving that you are born of parents who are nationals legally and ask you to prove it. Of course they would with all the immigration issues they face. It doesnt matter if you sound 100% English at passport control or whatever, just look at all the problems with TCKs of other mixed nationalities who also face discrimination and suspicion etc. I know a few Thais who left years ago before there was a great knowledge of these things, and now coming back to Thailand cannot get official citizenship because they do not have any real proof of their existence here previously.

If I were you, just pay whatever necessary to get it all so that there can be no question. For now I dont believe (but could be wrong) that it is illegal to hold dual nationality. It's better to be safe than sorry!

[bkk_mike]

Sorry to butt in but has anybody got a definate on registaring the birth..no need?? can i do it later in the UK?

I have never registered my daughters birth. Just did the passport application.

Basically, other than for the benefit of genealogists in the future, I saw no point in doing the registration other than it being yet another way for the UK government to rip off it's citizens.

[bina]

many countries, like the states, will turn a 'blind eye' on dual nationality even if u do the army (conscripted, say, like israeli/american dual citizenship and at 18 the dual national is conscripted, like my kids... )... as marisa says: countries are cracking down, esecially the usa , for getting citizenship and passports for foreign born nationals of holders of dual citizenship... requiring more proof of actual residence in the original country etc....

always better to register and hold passports for future reference

as far as going in and out of countries: u go out with your country's passport u are in now and go in to your dual nationality country with its passport, etc....

and dont let the passports expire, etc...

some countries are more serioius about doing army so if a child is a dual citizen in a country that does conscript all its citizens, when reaching conscription age, things may change, but not always...

thailand, from what samran and others have stated, doesnt seem to care about dual passport holders that havent done the army/red/black draw thingy...

bina

israel

[GuestHouse]

A point to note is, the father here can only pass on his British Citizenship if he himself is 'British Other than by Descent' - that is only if the father was himself born in the UK to parents who had legal residence at the time of his birth.

[coventry]

article from the Phukette gazette 2004 - here

“Section 13 of the Citizenship Act 1965 stipulates that a female Thai national who marries a foreigner and is later granted citizenship by her foreign husband’s home country shall maintain her Thai nationality.

There is no Thai law that stipulates that she must lose her Thai citizenship. However, she may choose to revoke her Thai citizenship, a decision the Thai government will announce the Government Gazette.

For Thai children with dual nationality, the Citizenship Act (3rd issue) 1992 states that a Thai national with a foreign father may declare his or her intention to revoke Thai nationality within the year following the child’s 20th birthday.

The law does not mention that the child will automatically have his or her Thai citizenship revoked. If the child does not declare his or her intention to revoke Thai citizenship, that child will still hold Thai nationality.”

Monday, April 12, 2004 Satchaphand Atthakor, Deputy Director-General, Consular Affairs Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

The Thai Embassy, consular section in Washington DC states that Thailand does not recognise dual nationality. It gives 2 exemptions. The one that concerns most is that dual nationality is acceptable for a child to have it "until reaching the age of majority (18). At this point, person must choose which citizenship to maintain".

Fine to all that have evaded the law but things will change in the future due to America wanting to close the loop holes in dual nationality. It's the biggest hurdle they face combatting terrorism as they need to keep a check on peoples movements and dual nationality is a thorn to them. It's also a thorn to Thailand, as people with a Thai and another nationality passport can buy land here. Something they don't want.

PS. The Citizens Act (3rd issue)1992 is 1993 on Thailand Embassy site.

Edited May 20, 2008 by coventry

[Maestro]

The Thai Embassy, consular section in Washington DC states that Thailand does not recognise dual nationality...

This means that they have wrong information on their site.

--

Maestro

[Boo]

I'd beleive the Deputy director general of the ministry of foreign affairs any day over a website for a thai consul in the US.

IF America decide to revoke duel nationality then that is something for US/thai passport holders to deal with but not all of us are from the US & as Samran has already pointed out, there is no law being evaded.

[Maestro]

The Thai Embassy, consular section in Washington DC...Thailand Embassy site.

Where exactly on that website did you find a reference to dual nationality not being allowed in Thailand except until the age of 18? I searched the entire site and found no such reference:

I did find this page, which clearly states that a child with one parent a Thai national and the other a foreigner acquires Thai nationality. No age limitation is mentioned.

To acquire Thai Nationality

According to the Thai Nationality Act (2535 B.E.), it has opened a possibility for a person, born of a father or a mother of Thai nationality, whether within or outside the Thai Kingdom, to acquire Thai nationality.

--

Maestro

[ozsamurai]

Just to confuse this, I am a dual national Aus/Brit does this mean our Thai child can hold 3 passports???