Do Expats Look Down On Tourists?

[SNGLIFE]

Nice question.

Insofar as ex-pats think all "knowledgeable" tourists (or TG junkies - barf!) are actually N00BS who don't know diddly-shyt, I agree that ex-pats look down on tourists. However, as long as one doesn't step to me to tell/correct ME about Thailand or Thai people, I pity them and keep my thoughts to myself...

[Sir Burr]

If you can get speak some Thai and pronounce it properly, its unlikely you will be seen as a target for a scam, pay pay too much for a taxi, bar girl etc...

I speak Thai and tip extravagantly.........

[JetsetBkk]

i STAY THERE I CANNOT SPEAK THAI VERY WELL CANNOT WRITE IT AT ALL I JUST WANT TO LIVE IN THE BACK GROUND WITH MY WIFE AND BABY AND ALL MY FAMILY

Sorry, could you speak up a bit? I'm a bit deaf, you see?

Give the guy a break, SB. His keyboard has clearly got a "caps lock" problem - even his nick is in caps!

P.S. Welcome Cosmo! (Any relation to Cosmo Kramer? )

Hmmmmm.......notice the small i at the beginning of his post?

He's unaware that his caps-lock is on.

Brilliant detective work SB!

So he signed up and made his first post, all with the Caps Lock on, and never noticed... Perhaps his screen is too dark?

And he's still made only one post. Come back Cosmo! I didn't mean anything about the Caps Lock thing.

[SeaVisionBurma]

I speak Thai and tip extravagantly.........

aaah, you are the mysterious one I have been looking for.

Somebody who speaks Thai and has been tipping extravagantly, has been artificially inflating expected tips lately.

Several prolonged discussions have ensued, with various Tuk-Tuk operators and the like. Vague descriptions of an individual wearing peculiar metal suits were thrown around. I was forced into rounding up my usual tip by obscene amounts of baht, sometimes in double digits!! Alas, a precedent had been set......

[luumak]

i dont feel a need to prove anything to anyone - until some jokers starts acting like an ass which may involve embarrassing me due to proximity. im also pretty fed up with the bs spewing from some in the beer bars in pattaya. but living in asia 15 years you can size people up quickly.

i have spent 15 years and have somewhat sacrificed a career to be in asia which i love. when i get hear the bs or the freshies on this board in particular saying if you dont like it go or demanding all this western crap and whining, driving prices up - that drives me crazy ok? need ac, western toilet, a taxi, a hotel drive a freakin' car?!?! - try home pal.

some people been in asia 5 years and know almost as much as me. some have been 25 years (one city?) and have not a clue. this board is full of freshies.

it is very obvious 'who someone is' by their clothing. me i dont care - im a california beach bum. bazillionaires dress just like me in cali. i am often looked down upon the smart dressed guys while wearing my shorts and sandals in bkk. what i know is they dont have a hat to pee in -thats why theyre wearing that monkey suit in 35 degree heat and im headed back to pattaya for a drink. thats why they ar teaching. they give me the biggest laugh..the teachers in the new suits. saw some 'big' guy in panthip a few months ago - he had get this...a VEST on (3pc!!) omg!

i have no problem with people with open minds, like to share great adventure stories and wild tales local/tourist or whatever.

in the end here is my marker honestly:

have you been in asia for a long, consistent amount of time (one 3 month chunk youll learn more than 20 trips over two years).

can you speak basic thai

do you eat thai food

do you rarely/never eat farang food

do you live basically like a thai

have you picked up asian mannerisms that are not forced

have you traveled around thailand

have you traveled around asia

how many chillis can you eat

are you smart enough not to have a thai gf/bf

have you lived in another asian country

have you made some really hard/long travels

have you worked a non-teaching job in asia

thats my criteria. for me - you can be 'retired' in pattaya, married, kid and O visa - for a decade ...i just consider you a tourist.

Edited May 15, 2008 by luumak

[luumak]

as an aside... my experience is also that the general population does not make any distinction unless you are an expat with a great job, speak thai (emph) and usually these guys are married (and pretty arrogant). we are just all white devils.

the bar girls in pattaya used to make distinction but i find they make no distinction any longer and could care less. its all about one shot, one night, big money in hand and poof - gone. they dont care, they dont want to know you, make a friend or even marry .....$$$$$$$$$$$$$

no matter where you live - how long you are established there is important to those in the community unless they are all fresh off the bus as well.

Edited May 15, 2008 by luumak

[midasthailand]

I enjoy speaking Thai! There I've admitted it, does that make me a snob? Not really. Am I trying to grovel to the Thais by speaking their language proficiently? Not at all. At the end of the day, for me, it's all about communication, I find it is more convenient for the Thai if I speak their language.

Having said that, there is often a look of confusion on the face of the Thai to whom I'm speaking as they do not generally expect their language to emanate from a farang face. It can be quite frustrating at times when you know you are speaking intelligible Thai and are greeted by a blank look. After the third repetition of Thai the penny finally drops and you get a smile and a response.

Another thing I have noticed when speaking Thai in bars is that the young ladies on the game tend to steer clear of me (realising that there is no profit here). If I go with a non Thai speaking mate and we both speak English we spend all night telling the girls that, "no thankyou, we do not want to buy you a drink or take you home, we just came for a beer and a game or two of pool".

Do Expats look down on tourists? Generally not, I would think, but if said tourist is behaving like a dickwad, then yes, just as you would look down on anybody, in any country acting in an obnoxious way. A few posters have mentioned having to apologise for the behaviour of other westerners and I must admit that it makes me squirm when I see the behaviour of some visitors to Thailand and I too have apologised on behalf of my race. This has indeed been an interesting thread and one of the reasons that I keep logging on to TV is threads like this one.

Cheers

[younghusband]

Having said that, there is often a look of confusion on the face of the Thai to whom I'm speaking as they do not generally expect their language to emanate from a farang face. It can be quite frustrating at times when you know you are speaking intelligible Thai and are greeted by a blank look. After the third repetition of Thai the penny finally drops and you get a smile and a response.]

I must have heard this refrain a thousand times over the last 30 years.It never seems to occur to this type that their grasp of Thai is somewhat less brilliant than they imagine, and that the "blank look" they seem to encounter rather frequently is because their Thai capability is restricted and in some cases almost unintelligible.Is it just coincidence that the dozen or so farang I know who have immaculate Thai never seem to have this problem?I find a golden rule is never to accept a farang's own assessment of the quality of his or her Thai language knowledge.

[Prakanong]

"Do Expats look down on tourists? Generally not, I would think, but if said tourist is behaving like a dickwad, then yes, just as you would look down on anybody, in any country acting in an obnoxious way."

This is closer to it - some expats are tits as well and I avoid them like the plague.

I do not think I feel the need to apologise for my race though - do the Thai's feel the needs to do so for theirs for the arsey things many of them do?

[SeaVisionBurma]

it keeps popping up, so I have to ask...

what on earth is it about the ability to eat chillies that often appears in criteria of judging expat status?

I have spent a good part of my life in Asia, yet can't eat chilli in any significant amount... and I know people who have never stepped foot outside their own country (eg Australia) and can eat whole chillies raw without batting an eyelid.

Am I missing something here?

[rixalex]

Having said that, there is often a look of confusion on the face of the Thai to whom I'm speaking as they do not generally expect their language to emanate from a farang face. It can be quite frustrating at times when you know you are speaking intelligible Thai and are greeted by a blank look. After the third repetition of Thai the penny finally drops and you get a smile and a response.

I must have heard this refrain a thousand times over the last 30 years.It never seems to occur to this type that their grasp of Thai is somewhat less brilliant than they imagine, and that the "blank look" they seem to encounter rather frequently is because their Thai capability is restricted and in some cases almost unintelligible.Is it just coincidence that the dozen or so farang I know who have immaculate Thai never seem to have this problem?I find a golden rule is never to accept a farang's own assessment of the quality of his or her Thai language knowledge.

Can't help but agree with YoungHusband on this one.

I too have been guilty in my early years of thinking that when Thai's gave me the blank look, it was just because they weren't expecting me to be able to speak Thai. Although it's true that Thai's can be a bit taken aback, especially if it's the first time they have encountered a Thai speaking farang, the truth is that if your Thai is spoken clearly and with the correct tone, there will be no need to repeat what you have said.

Sadly though for me, i still get the blank look on occasion , but i no longer blame anyone but myself now!

To the point of a farang's own assessment of their language skills - again i agree with you YH. I guess part of the problem is that a farang only has to speak a tiny bit of Thai for the locals to be showering them with praise about how good their Thai is. When i receive such a compliment, i am grateful and thank them for it, but take it with the same shovelful of salt as when i'm being told what a handsome young man i am! (although on a good day and in dim lighting, i'd like to think there could be the smallest shred of truth to that one )

[rixalex]

I can't eat chilli in any significant amount...

Am I missing something here?

Diarrhea?

Edited May 16, 2008 by rixalex

[thecatman]

it keeps popping up, so I have to ask...

what on earth is it about the ability to eat chillies that often appears in criteria of judging expat status?

I have spent a good part of my life in Asia, yet can't eat chilli in any significant amount... and I know people who have never stepped foot outside their own country (eg Australia) and can eat whole chillies raw without batting an eyelid.

Am I missing something here?

That's a very good point SeaVisionBurma, I can eat my food hotter than my Thai G/F, does that make me more 'Thai' than her???......I think not. I've been here 3 years now, but even before I came to LOS I was still able to chilli's and hot food, it means nothing. (other than I like hot food).

Edited May 16, 2008 by thecatman

[steveromagnino]

I too have been guilty in my early years of thinking that when Thai's gave me the blank look, it was just because they weren't expecting me to be able to speak Thai. Although it's true that Thai's can be a bit taken aback, especially if it's the first time they have encountered a Thai speaking farang, the truth is that if your Thai is spoken clearly and with the correct tone, there will be no need to repeat what you have said.

I have to say there is one exception to this, and that is when ocassionally meeting the Thai partner (male or female) of the farang or sometimes desparately single at a party, also known as the try hard english speaker (who is Thai).

They can almost always be categorised by a massive desire to social climb, a fairly extreme dislike of Thai people and usually but not always the 'look' stereotypically attractive to westerners. Mostly only encountered in Bangkok, although these days anywhere with lots of westerners there tend to be a few in tow. I am fairly sure a massive hunk of low self esteem is in there, but you could not usually tell this from the air of supreme arrogance that goes in check with the part.

This is pretty much the only group that will have a go at claiming to me that I don't speak Thai well enough to understand at all. OK, I know full well my Thai is far from perfect, and I can only pull off speaking Thai like a Thai for maybe 1 minute at the longest before they know I didn't learn it as a kid. But it is good enough for almost every other Thai other than this group to at least get what I am talking about. Younghusband; you ever met this sort?

Usually members of this try hard group have pretty lousy english as well; so it is usually quite painful to try to cater to their desire to show how non Thai they are to their friends....always enjoy if I catch the jackpot and one of the people they are trying to impress jumps into Thai or says, can't we speak Thai it will be a lot easier.

The ultimate bananas I guess.

The expats doing the looking down are the ones who try to hang out with this type of person I guess. Never see the reason to make myself look better by looking down on others...after all I know you lot are all cr^p 55555555555555555555555555

Long live Sir Steve of Romag.

As for that list of Luumak..... not too convinced there; you could do all those things and not have the slightest clue about what makes Thai people do the things they do. but it is a start I guess...we are all beginners in the game of life.

or some such thing.

Edited May 16, 2008 by steveromagnino

[midasthailand]

I am not going to get into a p-ssing contest with you Younghusband! I speak, read and write Thai fluently. Having been trained at the Australian Defence School of Languages, spent three years at the Embassy in Bangkok and five months as the only farang with 1,600 Thai army personnel in East Timor I was required to converse in Thai 24/7. I have no problem being understood by all levels of Thai on the phone so if they do not understand me face to face it is usually because they have no experience of Thai speaking Farangs. You are a perfect example of someone who rushes to put crap on someone without knowing the facts and more than likely one of the "expats" the OP was referring to.

Edited May 16, 2008 by midasthailand

[SeaVisionBurma]

I am not going to get into a p-ssing contest with you Younghusband! I speak, read and write Thai fluently. Having been trained at the Australian Defence School of Languages, spent three years at the Embassy in Bangkok and five months as the only farang with 1,600 Thai army personnel in East Timor I was required to converse in Thai 24/7. I have no problem being understood by all levels of Thai on the phone so if they do not understand me face to face it is usually because they have no experience of Thai speaking Farangs. You are a perfect example of someone who rushes to put crap on someone without knowing the facts and more than likely one of the "expats" the OP was referring to.

I have just seen the formula to forum 'gold'! (no offence intended midasthailand)

1. Reply to poster X and start by saying "I am not going to get into a p_ssing contest with you X"

2. Continue your post, writing blatantly in the manner of a p-ssing contest......

Brilliant. Best piece of forum posting I have ever seen.

[egg6447]

"Meeting with other expats i find there can be an underlying current of competition as to who speaks the most Thai, eats the spiciest food, knows the most about Thai people, and so on..."

ill take that as you cant read or write Thai, in fact ill bet your one of those that cant even speak Thai!!!!

This attitude exactly proves the point i was making about those who shout about how good their Thai is, and admonish others - even those they have never met. Very sad.

For the record i both speak Thai and eat spicy food, but don't feel this is something i have the need to prove to others.

"For the record i both speak Thai "

so you cant read or write thai then?

You started it

"i find there can be an underlying current of competition as to who speaks the most Thai"

and it turns out you can only speak thai, unlike myselfe and many on here who are so fluent in thai i somtimes forget to speak english, well American english that is!!

All i started was asking the question why some expats are competitive about stuff like how well they speak the language. For some reason you interpreted this as me wanting to engage in a pissing contest with you about Thai language. So whilst i congratulate you on your mastery of Thai language, i suggest you might need to brush up on some of the other aspects of communication, like understanding.

nice one.

[luumak]

the chili thing is simply...can you handle the food of the nation you live in? for phils, indonesia or india it might be can you eat (mixed up food) with one hand? or in china can you wield chopsticks well no one looks at you like a fool. maybe this is a bad test becasue i could not live on philippino food - simply too bland (unless i add chillis). even khmer food is dull. thailand has a great kitchen and a big reason its so hard for me to leave. great food, seafood, wonderful combination of spices and cheaper than chips.

i can eat really hot food more spicy than a number of thai women i know. further, i also know that many thai women have serious stomach problems from the spice, chillis as well. growing up on italian and mexican i just really took to the stuff - sometimes it turns thai heads me tucking into some mindblowingly hot food in the market. the thais wait for me to yelp and run for water but it doesnt happen

i totally agree with midas and im certain my thai isnt anywhere close - but all it really takes is to try. memorization and basic pronunciation. that said if you have a heavy accent, forget it.

finally, i have also noticed MANY times that girls will literally walk away from me (now more than ever) if i speak thai to them. i recall being in a bar i had not been in months - girl remembered me and started speaking thai. made me feel good but i asked - why do you speak thai to me? she said she remembered me because i was the only farang ever in that bar (beer pattaya) that spoke any serious amount of thai.

steve: you are correct but the avg expat has no clue what goes on inside the thai mind. im not so sure i even have the slightest clue after all these years. that usually takes someone in a good marriage with a decent family and that is honestly interested. a great example is someone that really understands thai buddhist ceremony/traditions, sin sodt, family structure, mafia clans, the real low down on how crap the education in thailand is. most single guys that is extraneous info.

one thing i have noticed though is that people that dont speak any thai are really sensitive around those that do. i have always found language the fastest way into a culture and ease of getting about.

if you are here on a holiday 2x a year no one would think you should have any thai under your belt. on the other hand, if you consider thailand your home and/or have a thai lover...

Edited May 16, 2008 by luumak

[SeaVisionBurma]

the chili thing is simply...can you handle the food of the nation you live in? for phils, indonesia or india it might be can you eat (mixed up food) with one hand? or in china can you wield chopsticks well no one looks at you like a fool. maybe this is a bad test becasue i could not live on philippino food - simply too bland (unless i add chillis). even khmer food is dull. thailand has a great kitchen and a big reason its so hard for me to leave. great food, seafood, wonderful combination of spices and cheaper than chips.

This makes the least sense of any post in this thread so far, IMHO. So if I can "eat (mixed up food) with one hand" I pass as an expat in (take your choice of) The Philippines, Indonesia, or India?????????????? Or if I can "wield chopsticks well" so "no one looks at you like a fool" I thereby pass as an expat in China?

i can eat really hot food more spicy than a number of thai women i know. further, i also know that many thai women have serious stomach problems from the spice, chillis as well. growing up on italian and mexican i just really took to the stuff - sometimes it turns thai heads me tucking into some mindblowingly hot food in the market. the thais wait for me to yelp and run for water but it doesnt happen

Gee, and all this time I thought the thread was about the opinions on tourists from expats. Really, my whole life has been a waste because I can't 'eat really hot food more spicy than thai women' or I don't 'yelp and run for water' after tucking into some mindblowingly hot food etc etc

Still cannot understand this borderline obsession of some people in this forum about how much of a legend they are because they can eat more chillies than a local, or they can eat the hottest food on the planet etc etc etc. What on earth is going on in a person's mind when they post a whole reply - several paragraphs at times - on their achievements in devouring chillies or hot food?

This thread was engaging for a while - but it is becoming irritating, and slightly disturbing.

[qwertz]

I suggest to anyone who is in doubt about expats and their attitude that they first get to know some real expats.

I suspect that the OP for instance has only seen the wannabes.

Most real expats don't hang in beer bars, get on with their lives and are always helpful if you're in need of good advice on local

conditions and current affairs.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I am not going to get into a p-ssing contest with you Younghusband! I speak, read and write Thai fluently. Having been trained at the Australian Defence School of Languages, spent three years at the Embassy in Bangkok and five months as the only farang with 1,600 Thai army personnel in East Timor I was required to converse in Thai 24/7. I have no problem being understood by all levels of Thai on the phone so if they do not understand me face to face it is usually because they have no experience of Thai speaking Farangs. You are a perfect example of someone who rushes to put crap on someone without knowing the facts and more than likely one of the "expats" the OP was referring to.

I have just seen the formula to forum 'gold'! (no offence intended midasthailand)

1. Reply to poster X and start by saying "I am not going to get into a p_ssing contest with you X"

2. Continue your post, writing blatantly in the manner of a p-ssing contest......

Brilliant. Best piece of forum posting I have ever seen.

'twas a very good post indeed SVB

[wilko]

i dont feel a need to prove anything to anyone - until some jokers starts acting like an ass which may involve embarrassing me due to proximity. im also pretty fed up with the bs spewing from some in the beer bars in pattaya. but living in asia 15 years you can size people up quickly.

i have spent 15 years and have somewhat sacrificed a career to be in asia which i love. when i get hear the bs or the freshies on this board in particular saying if you dont like it go or demanding all this western crap and whining, driving prices up - that drives me crazy ok? need ac, western toilet, a taxi, a hotel drive a freakin' car?!?! - try home pal.

some people been in asia 5 years and know almost as much as me. some have been 25 years (one city?) and have not a clue. this board is full of freshies.

it is very obvious 'who someone is' by their clothing. me i dont care - im a california beach bum. bazillionaires dress just like me in cali. i am often looked down upon the smart dressed guys while wearing my shorts and sandals in bkk. what i know is they dont have a hat to pee in -thats why theyre wearing that monkey suit in 35 degree heat and im headed back to pattaya for a drink. thats why they ar teaching. they give me the biggest laugh..the teachers in the new suits. saw some 'big' guy in panthip a few months ago - he had get this...a VEST on (3pc!!) omg!

i have no problem with people with open minds, like to share great adventure stories and wild tales local/tourist or whatever.

in the end here is my marker honestly:

have you been in asia for a long, consistent amount of time (one 3 month chunk youll learn more than 20 trips over two years).

can you speak basic thai

do you eat thai food

do you rarely/never eat farang food

do you live basically like a thai

have you picked up asian mannerisms that are not forced

have you traveled around thailand

have you traveled around asia

how many chillis can you eat

are you smart enough not to have a thai gf/bf

have you lived in another asian country

have you made some really hard/long travels

have you worked a non-teaching job in asia

thats my criteria. for me - you can be 'retired' in pattaya, married, kid and O visa - for a decade ...i just consider you a tourist.

So I take it these criteria are YOU....

I notice you replace Thailand with Asia when you haven't actually done it yourself in Thailand.

Can anyone be BETTER than you?

BTW - what MANNERISMS have you picked up???

[younghusband]

I am not going to get into a p-ssing contest with you Younghusband! I speak, read and write Thai fluently. Having been trained at the Australian Defence School of Languages, spent three years at the Embassy in Bangkok and five months as the only farang with 1,600 Thai army personnel in East Timor I was required to converse in Thai 24/7. I have no problem being understood by all levels of Thai on the phone so if they do not understand me face to face it is usually because they have no experience of Thai speaking Farangs. You are a perfect example of someone who rushes to put crap on someone without knowing the facts and more than likely one of the "expats" the OP was referring to.

I was making a general point which long expereience has shown to be well founded.It's an anonymous forum and you can take any identity and set of skills you like without fear of contradiction.I have however no reason to believe you are not a competent Thai speaker notwithstanding the defensiveness of your post which might suggest otherwise to the more cynical among us.I was incidentally amused by the slightly absurd suggestion that three years based at the Australian Embassy in Bangkok was in itself a qualification.The Australian Defence College School of Language produces a large number of workmanlike Thai speakers, and is a sound base for more advanced study.Five months in East Timor is neither here nor there.None of the fluent Thai speakers I know have your "blank stare problem" when speaking Thai: I suggest you might reflect why this is so.

[Prakanong]

I suggest to anyone who is in doubt about expats and their attitude that they first get to know some real expats.

I suspect that the OP for instance has only seen the wannabes.

Most real expats don't hang in beer bars, get on with their lives and are always helpful if you're in need of good advice on local

conditions and current affairs.

In Singapore I am always helpful when I see tourists looking lost with a map on the street corner - but I do hang about in bar's occasionally The bar's here ar full of expats every night of the week - never in the daytime though so maybe thats the key - time of day in the bar

[Ulysses G.]

None of the fluent Thai speakers I know have your "blank stare problem" when speaking Thai: I suggest you might reflect why this is so.

I often notice two Thais who are from different parts of the country will have a great bit of difficulty understanding each other, so I am sure that even "expert" Thai-speaking farangs will get it from time to time.

I know that I do.

[Prakanong]

None of the fluent Thai speakers I know have your "blank stare problem" when speaking Thai: I suggest you might reflect why this is so.

I often notice two Thais who are from different parts of the country will have a great bit of difficulty understanding each other, so I am sure that even "expert" Thai-speaking farangs will get it from time to time.

I know that I do.

Recently in Taiwan one of the lunches was in the Thai Restuarant in the Shertaon at our Asia Annual Conference.

As I had not sat with the Thai's all week I chose to sit at their table and my African colleague joined us (he has lived in Indian, Belgium, UK and now Sinagpore) - He asked howyou say "Delicious" and was told "Aroi".

I laughed and said "Saep" as a joke. I was met with totally blank stares from 9 Thai's but 1 laughed and said its Isaan.

Back in 97 I was on Samui with a GF from Central Thailand - Phichet - she was amazed she could not understand the locals quite a bit

Edited May 17, 2008 by Prakanong

[rixalex]

i dont feel a need to prove anything to

in the end here is my marker honestly:

have you been in asia for a long, consistent amount of time (one 3 month chunk youll learn more than 20 trips over two years).

can you speak basic thai

do you eat thai food

do you rarely/never eat farang food

do you live basically like a thai

have you picked up asian mannerisms that are not forced

have you traveled around thailand

have you traveled around asia

how many chillis can you eat

are you smart enough not to have a thai gf/bf

have you lived in another asian country

have you made some really hard/long travels

have you worked a non-teaching job in asia

thats my criteria. for me - you can be 'retired' in pattaya, married, kid and O visa - for a decade ...i just consider you a tourist.

So I take it these criteria are YOU....

I notice you replace Thailand with Asia when you haven't actually done it yourself in Thailand.

Can anyone be BETTER than you?

BTW - what MANNERISMS have you picked up???

Yes, it would seem that luumak has a criteria that simply describes himself. Why are some people so anxious to defend the "expat" tag from other people using - the people that they obviously consider to be the undesirables? It's as if they think being called an expat carries with it some sort of prestige or honour. How strange.

[wilko]

Any country has variations in local vernacular language...in dialect, vocabulary, accent etc....not surprising....a good sign of really learning a language is when you start recognising regional accents and variations....

Edited May 17, 2008 by wilko

[Prakanong]

Any country has variations in local vernacular language...in dialect, vocabulary, accent etc....not surprising....

Exactly - when I am in full blown "Pitmatic" after a few bevvies people just smile and nod at the pauses with a baffled look on their faces

In normal everyday use I still have a very strong accent but do not use the dialect - Asians seem to understand me fine (except mainland Chinese who have a little difficulty) but Belgians seem to find it difficult

[wilko]

"fluent" though is a definable standard....many people who claim to be "fluent" are in fact "conversational".

most people over estimate their ability to speak another language too.