Are Foreigners Destroying Thailand?

[Galong]

I warned them, in my first public speech in Thailand, in late 2003, not to allow Thailand to go Western. Too late, and they did not heed my advice (most of them were provincial English teachers who did not understand me). Their country, their fault, not ours.

Thank you Paul Revere for warning the Thais about us.

FYI, there are a LOT of good things about the West that this country could certain benefit from... such as human rights, an efficient and less corrupt police force, school that actually teach students, a judicial system that doesn't discriminate (usually ), etc.

....Sorry, but Thais don't fart sunshine and poop rainbows. They're just as responsible for the mass destruction of this land as anyone. Many will do whatever it takes to make money... but then again, many people from every nation think the same way.

I apologize for apologizing for the Thais. I warned them not to let their children become disrespectful of their elders, and not to let their children get pregnant before marriage (all my girls did), or smoke pot or become alcoholics, like most of my kids, or drop out of school (4 out of 6 only finished 9th grade).

I agree that Thailand has not assimilated the good Western values. I admit to having worn rose-colored glasses and not seeing the colors of the Thai farts and poop. That came later. I agree with Guesthouse that Thais mess up Thailand with no substantial help from the farang who migrate here. The bad influences of Western culture, however, have been imported by the Thais and become the very essence of modern Thainess.

No need to apologize, buddy. I was being a bit 'tongue in cheek' anyway. :D

One thing that I see now that I didn't see 15 years ago when I moved here is the quality of TV shows... or should I say a lack of quality. No show had handguns. Now, that's rampant on Thai TV. I'm sure that US TV had some influence on that.

I don't think we can blame alcoholism on foreigners coming here. Thais from all cities/villages seem to drink too much. It's not just touristy areas.

[Galong]

Are Foreigners Destroying Thailand?

Today, over 500,000 Thais live with HIV or AIDS--approximately 1.4% of the adult population. Each year, 25-30,000 Thais die from AIDS-related causes. Ninety percent of them are aged 20-49, the most productive sector of the workforce. The situation could have been worse; an aggressive public education campaign in the early 1990s reduced the number of new HIV infections from over 100,000 annually to around 15,000 annually now."[/i]

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2814.htm

LaoPo

Thanks for the info and the link LaoPo... very interesting and very disturbing.

If true (and I'm not saying it ain't) that 25-30,000 Thais die annually from AIDS related illnesses, you'd think that this would be a MAJOR concern for the government. Frankly, I had no idea the figure was that high. I'm shocked to say the least.

HIV is not an automatic death unless you can't afford the meds to fight it. I suspect that the majority of Thais who are dying from AIDS are too poor to afford their meds... very sad.

[JSixpack]

Their interest in Thailand is purely commercial which destroys the magic and splender of what makes Thailand different from the West.

"Their?" You mean, the Thais themselves? Thai "values" or the appearance of them instantly fly out the window whenever money is waived. Offer all Thais a free ticket to the West and a job there and the whole country will empty out.

Magic?

Foreigners, esp including Chinese, have done infinite good for Thailand. Development brings people out of poverty, ignorance, superstition, and fear. More and more Thais don't have to wander around in the jungle staring at the moon. More women have equality . . . .

So many naive, utopian, "noble savage" believers.

[Heng]

I believe the saying is they were all standing around "pointing at the moon," which suggests curiousity and the 'beginnings' of a problem solving way of thinking.

[Heng]

double tap.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Heng

[koheesti]

Here are my first views of the bay that is now, Jomtien and Pattaya , notice no have bars or bargirls, no concrete buildings but the lao khao flowed free and not a single piece of <deleted> in the bay, whale sharks, manta,s were a common sight, there was even the occasional septic passing through, so you tell me what is better Nignoy

The house being built is the first british house in pattaya 1964, no planning permission or limited company needed justafew cases of compo for the puyai baan,

The bar is the first one in Pattaya

So we can blame the Brits?

[morrobay]

Accusing foreigners of destroying Thailand is streatching it a bit, the evidence on the ground is that the Thais are doing a pretty good job by themselves.

Not an accusation guesthouse, more of an open observation and question.

However, I think a case can be made that Thailand destroys more than a few foreigners.

Hmmm, yes ... as we see nearly everyday.

Question: Would Thailand be the same today if it hadn't had the influx of foreign capital?

Answer: Of course it wouldn't but how would it be? That is what I wonder.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMO it is the long coastlines and islands of Thailand that has attracted foreign investment.

What would Thailand be like without the influx of foreign capital ? Take a look at Laos

Edited May 14, 2008 by morrobay

[ralph444]

thailand wouldnt be such a cool place if it were well run!

Edited May 14, 2008 by ralph444

[TheDon]

Thailand is perfect, just let it be and enjoy

[astral]

I have to agree about the changes over the last 25 years.

Some for the better, many not.

I am not sure that foreigners are to blame.

The culprits are the Thais, I am sorry to say.

[IMA_FARANG]

I was only thinking about this last night, sat in a Westen bar cafe in Pattaya.

Since last week, Menu prices have shot up in price. 14b hat on his range of homemade soups, for example. There are many western cafes,r estaurants that advertise 'daily specials' for 149b upwards. Yet there are equally good Thai owned cafes and restuarants selling the same western food menus, from a 1/3 or more, cheaper,, and just as nice. I realise that there have been price increases on food products, however, using my one example, I fail to see justification in a hike on soup from 55b to 69b in one go. And another thing, has the owner increased the pay to his staff? I would like to think so, however, I lean towards the idea that he has not.

I went to Phuket in early 1977 on my first visit there. Lived in a shack on the beach, no electricity most of the day. Only had lights form 6 PM to 11PM. The food was usually seafood, from a small restaurant, open style, with thatched palm roof. Fishing boats would pull in about 1PM every day and unload their catch. About 3PM the charcoal was started and fresh shrimp, prawn, and fish started grilling on the charcoal.

I bought a seafood meal for myself and my Thai girlfriend. We had 6 grilled prawns, 6 grilled crab with curry sauce, a big grouper fish, and, of course rice for all. I bought a liter beer, my girlfriend had a coke. My liter beer was the most costly item on the menu at 23 baht. The prawns were 2 baht each, the crabs a baht each, the fish a whole 6 baht. I don't think they even charged at all for the rice.

And you know, even then, there were "old-timers" complaining about how Thailand was changing for the worse.

[TheDon]

I have no idea how Thailand is being destroyed? I think its getting better, the place has moved forward alot in the last 20 years

[Pepe']

Are Foreigners Destroying Thailand?

Today, over 500,000 Thais live with HIV or AIDS--approximately 1.4% of the adult population. Each year, 25-30,000 Thais die from AIDS-related causes. Ninety percent of them are aged 20-49, the most productive sector of the workforce. The situation could have been worse; an aggressive public education campaign in the early 1990s reduced the number of new HIV infections from over 100,000 annually to around 15,000 annually now."[/i]

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2814.htm

LaoPo

Thanks for the info and the link LaoPo... very interesting and very disturbing.

If true (and I'm not saying it ain't) that 25-30,000 Thais die annually from AIDS related illnesses, you'd think that this would be a MAJOR concern for the government. Frankly, I had no idea the figure was that high. I'm shocked to say the least.

HIV is not an automatic death unless you can't afford the meds to fight it. I suspect that the majority of Thais who are dying from AIDS are too poor to afford their meds... very sad.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Thank you...

[VTR1000]

I have no idea how Thailand is being destroyed? I think its getting better, the place has moved forward alot in the last 20 years

Moved forward, maybe ... but better?

Sure, the infrastructure in the capital is way better now with expressways, skytrains and subways etc. Businesses and shopping malls in every direction - all good for the consumer etc can all be counted as moving forward (in a way). Out of the capital though, in the tourist areas especially, the areas where the foreigners are most likely to go, where once countryside and/or deserted beaches/islands surrounded by white sand lay, are now huge multi-storey hotels and condos, malls, construction sites, shops selling pretty much everything, sleazy bars and all the people who maybe associated.

Maybe it's only me - but to me that is certainly not better.

Would they be there if Mr Foreigner hadn't taken such a shine to Thailand? That is my question.

[Samuian]

#49 by LaoPo get's a thumbs up!

this is what happens all over the planet!

....and the general attitude: get it, have it, eat it, consume it, use it digest it, had it, dump it!

[toybits]

Commercialism has affected Thais. When I moved to Thailand 16 years ago, nobody drank coffee. People thought I was crazy for being such a coffee drinker. Then Starbucks came, Mac D became popular, Dunkin Donuts, Mr. Donut, Pizza Hut, Svensens, all of that calorie-rich food changed the eating habit of Thais. When it was a rarity to find an obese child at school, today, I could at least 3 out of 10 kids to be overweight. This in just a span of 16 years.

Development does not mean having more electricity, more cars, better transportation services by air or rail, having more shopping malls and whatever you might find in your home country. It just means that the place is becoming more urbanized and there are more infrastructure. It does not necessarily improve the quality of life of people in rural areas.

I cannot call this development when it leads to the destruction of the planet that we live in. How can this be development when the nature of the people is changed?

Some people might argue that modernization is an important of development. Really now?

At the rate our species is destroying this planet, how can you say that what you are seeing is development?

Foreigners, esp including Chinese, have done infinite good for Thailand. Development brings people out of poverty, ignorance, superstition, and fear. More and more Thais don't have to wander around in the jungle staring at the moon. More women have equality . . . .

So many naive, utopian, "noble savage" believers.

[Huey]

I was only thinking about this last night, sat in a Westen bar cafe in Pattaya.

Since last week, Menu prices have shot up in price. 14b hat on his range of homemade soups, for example. There are many western cafes,r estaurants that advertise 'daily specials' for 149b upwards. Yet there are equally good Thai owned cafes and restuarants selling the same western food menus, from a 1/3 or more, cheaper,, and just as nice. I realise that there have been price increases on food products, however, using my one example, I fail to see justification in a hike on soup from 55b to 69b in one go. And another thing, has the owner increased the pay to his staff? I would like to think so, however, I lean towards the idea that he has not.

I went to Phuket in early 1977 on my first visit there. Lived in a shack on the beach, no electricity most of the day. Only had lights form 6 PM to 11PM. The food was usually seafood, from a small restaurant, open style, with thatched palm roof. Fishing boats would pull in about 1PM every day and unload their catch. About 3PM the charcoal was started and fresh shrimp, prawn, and fish started grilling on the charcoal.

I bought a seafood meal for myself and my Thai girlfriend. We had 6 grilled prawns, 6 grilled crab with curry sauce, a big grouper fish, and, of course rice for all. I bought a liter beer, my girlfriend had a coke. My liter beer was the most costly item on the menu at 23 baht. The prawns were 2 baht each, the crabs a baht each, the fish a whole 6 baht. I don't think they even charged at all for the rice.

And you know, even then, there were "old-timers" complaining about how Thailand was changing for the worse.

That sounds beautiful, I wish I could step back in time with pocket full o bread and experience those days for a lil while. ...

[TheDon]

I have no idea how Thailand is being destroyed? I think its getting better, the place has moved forward alot in the last 20 years

Moved forward, maybe ... but better?

Sure, the infrastructure in the capital is way better now with expressways, skytrains and subways etc. Businesses and shopping malls in every direction - all good for the consumer etc can all be counted as moving forward (in a way). Out of the capital though, in the tourist areas especially, the areas where the foreigners are most likely to go, where once countryside and/or deserted beaches/islands surrounded by white sand lay, are now huge multi-storey hotels and condos, malls, construction sites, shops selling pretty much everything, sleazy bars and all the people who maybe associated.

Maybe it's only me - but to me that is certainly not better.

Would they be there if Mr Foreigner hadn't taken such a shine to Thailand? That is my question.

I believe the tourists have made it better, not worse. Pumped money into the country, the place has developed out of 3rd world status. The females are hot. its great

[onzestan]

Are foreigners destroying Thailand?

Yes !!!!

As they are destroying the U.S.A., Great Britain, France, The Netherlands, Belgium etc. etc.. The foreigners have a lot to answer for.

cheers

onzestan

[JimsKnight]

I have no idea how Thailand is being destroyed? I think its getting better, the place has moved forward alot in the last 20 years

Moved forward, maybe ... but better?

Sure, the infrastructure in the capital is way better now with expressways, skytrains and subways etc. Businesses and shopping malls in every direction - all good for the consumer etc can all be counted as moving forward (in a way). Out of the capital though, in the tourist areas especially, the areas where the foreigners are most likely to go, where once countryside and/or deserted beaches/islands surrounded by white sand lay, are now huge multi-storey hotels and condos, malls, construction sites, shops selling pretty much everything, sleazy bars and all the people who maybe associated.

Maybe it's only me - but to me that is certainly not better.

Would they be there if Mr Foreigner hadn't taken such a shine to Thailand? That is my question.

<SNIP> the place has developed out of 3rd world status. <SNIP>

I think beneath the rosy surface it still is a 3rd world country mate.

[TheDon]

I have no idea how Thailand is being destroyed? I think its getting better, the place has moved forward alot in the last 20 years

Moved forward, maybe ... but better?

Sure, the infrastructure in the capital is way better now with expressways, skytrains and subways etc. Businesses and shopping malls in every direction - all good for the consumer etc can all be counted as moving forward (in a way). Out of the capital though, in the tourist areas especially, the areas where the foreigners are most likely to go, where once countryside and/or deserted beaches/islands surrounded by white sand lay, are now huge multi-storey hotels and condos, malls, construction sites, shops selling pretty much everything, sleazy bars and all the people who maybe associated.

Maybe it's only me - but to me that is certainly not better.

Would they be there if Mr Foreigner hadn't taken such a shine to Thailand? That is my question.

<SNIP> the place has developed out of 3rd world status. <SNIP>

I think beneath the rosy surface it still is a 3rd world country mate.

Its pretty much borderline, I think it has come out of 3rd world status. But depends who you ask really.

BKK looks like a alive city, but when you go out abit some parts look like your in somalia or something. But either way Thailand has developed alot in the last 20 years

[LaoPo]

Are foreigners destroying Thailand?

Yes !!!!

As they are destroying the U.S.A., Great Britain, France, The Netherlands, Belgium etc. etc.. The foreigners have a lot to answer for.

cheers

onzestan

If you have a functioning Government in Brussels ask PM Yves Leterme to put a fence around the country; better: make it 3; one for Flanders and one for Wallonia and the smallest one for the German speaking part..

LaoPo

[luumak]

considering that foreigners cannot legally own land, that up until a few years ago the number of farang on retirement visas numbered a few hundred. add to this the huge bar set for foreign businesses and products. i would say absolutely not.

the place where farang ruining thailand is cultural and that can be controlled by the thais as well.

the entire nation has been mismanaged playground and thailand when it desires will spend a generation cleaning it up. that said - you cant fix sprawl and you can bring back extinct flora/fauna!

[TheDon]

If Thailand totally fixed it self up with the government and everything. I probably would never go there again