The Great Western Get-out Clause

[GuestHouse]

I'm reminded once again by ThaiVisa of the 'Western Get-Out Clause', I say by 'ThaiVisa, what I mean is TV members who, while Westerner's themselves, are only too happy to spout the 'Party Line' that all negative values and behaviours in modern Thai society can be put down to the Great Western Get-Out Clause'.

Today it was ‘the ruination of Thailand by foreigners’ on another day it’s consumerism, avarice, drug and alcohol abuse or the degradation of public morals - Just about any of the ills that beset modern Thai society are blamed on 'Western Values' alien by definition and of course not the fault of the Thais.

Now I can understand the Thais themselves doing this - but why foreigners are so eager to blame other foreigners is beyond me (I get the bit about why they never blame themselves).

History, literature, and dare I mention it religious philosophy is replete with tales of all the “Human Ills” we regard now as 'Modern'. The evidence is there in black and white and too often written in blood, that nothing in human behaviour is entirely new. The West didn't invent the ills of Thai society, much less force them upon the Thais. The problems of Thai society are the product of the decisions taken, or more likely not taken, and the actions and inactions of Thais themselves.

Equally offensive in these assertions that the West is to blame is the subtext that the Thais themselves cannot determine their own behaviour - as if Thais are simple child like creatures who have until some misty date in the not too distant past existed in some unspoiled ambrosia.

This view of Thai society having been perfect at some time in the pre-Farang past is a myth – It never was and never will be.

Laying the blame for Thai problems at the feet of the West is utter <deleted>.

Edited May 13, 2008 by GuestHouse

[candoman89]

ummmmmmmmm

is the rant over?

(but I wholeheartedly agree with you)

carry on

[bendix]

You really miss being here, don't you Guesthouse?

[thaihome]

The white man’s guilt is a heavy burden, some can carry it silently, others cannot help but continue to beat themselves up for it.

TH

[scotwumman]

Hesitate to join this thread. Although I agree with the gist of it, feel that the eloquent way the point is stated is difficult to match. Then Bendix being on board has put the tin lid on it.

Think I'll just wait for the next thread and hope it is silly enough for me to join in and appear even half-way articulate.

[Huey]

I definitely agree that the blame for vast majority of Thailand's problems rest squarely on the shoulders of Thais. Foreigners have only a minimal roll in them. What I don't agree with is the context that we "westreners" should stick together. <deleted> is a westerner anyway? what do they look like? what country are they from, what everyone west of Thailand??? Its not like in the US were you have Indians sticking together because they are Indian or Koreans doing so because they are Korean, those are singular nationalities, Westerners can mean any one of the hundreds of nationalities of folks who are not Thai that live here. Why should they be so inclined to stick together? And why should they not want unappreciative visitors to the kingdom to get lost?

[Huey]

The white man’s guilt is a heavy burden, some can carry it silently, others cannot help but continue to beat themselves up for it.

TH

[realmadrid25]

guesthouse is an expert on all things Thai.

[Gary A]

This is one point they are able to make that is logical. Any problems a farang has are indeed the farang's fault. You DON'T have to be here and if you were not here you would have no problems with Thailand.

[PeaceBlondie]

This comment in the OP - "nothing in human behaviour is entirely new" was uttered by King Solomon in Israel, 450 years before the Lord Buddha was born in India - "there is nothing new under the sun." Still true today and forevermore, quoth the raven.

Actually, I think this OP is a continuation of what Guesthouse wrote earlier this week - that the Thais are responsible, almost solely, for anything that ails Thailand.

Not that our home countries have birthed only geniuses of total wisdom and compassion. Germany was the home of both Hitler and Einstein.

[rgs2001uk]

guesthouse is an expert on all things Thai.

whatever his faults may or may not be, i cant recall him ever sinking so low as to post something as childish and immature as the following

yep... any suggestions? i have been stuck in that 150-175k usd/year range forever now.

and while i dont claim to be his biggest fan, he has at least lived here and does speak the language, and probably has more of an insight into all things thai than you will ever have, infact if i ever was in need of advice i know who i would ask, dont bother waiting by your phone.

have a nice day.

[banyahorn]

agreed

its a bit harsh [but all too easy] to blame someone else for your problems.

no-one wants to accept responsibilty for their own faults.

thats universal.

there are many examples of cultures with drugs/alchohol/abuse problems that dont relate to outsiders

try unemployed men with too much time as a possible link

not to forget - thailand has never been ruled by foreigners, unlike its neighbours

thais run the show here

who comes. who goes. who can do what. who owns what. who pays and who doesnt.

dont kid yourselves. farang are 2nd class. same as lao, cambodians, myanmar.

as the saying goes - farang are like buffalo...useful but you dont want one in your house

beautiful country

beautiful people amongst themselves

rightly suspicious of outsiders

the cultural divide is wide enough to cause that suspicion

as the world gets smaller the boundaries overlap

thailand must prepare for a bigger overlap coming from china

who knows, one day they may even rely on farang to keep the balance

[see ww2, vietnam war etc]

so dont bite the hand that feeds you

if all farang go, what do you have - myanmar all over again

a perfect model to emulate?

maybe for a military government backed by a regional/global powerhouse

theres a fork in the road coming for thailand

hong kong is the precedent - the purge is on the horizon

farang in total may mirror farang individual

as in - when the usefulness runs out - toss them out

that will be up to beijing.

[mellow1]

The white man’s guilt is a heavy burden, some can carry it silently, others cannot help but continue to beat themselves up for it.

TH

Some people don't believe in that kind of bullshit, but I guess you have a good reason to.

[OxfordWill]

Name me one big problem the Thais have (I'm not talking about their personalities) which it can be said with absolute certainty could not have been introduced/caused by the West at its root or somewhere down the line.

Edited May 14, 2008 by OxfordWill

[Sir Burr]

Germany was the home of both Hitler and Einstein.

0/2 Must try harder.

Hitler was Austrian. Einstein was Swiss.

[LinkPopularity]

Thailand not perfect in the past ???

500 years ago they had to make a law to stop excessive lesbian orgies ... especially at the royal court ... that's when it all went wrong ... dam_n it ... born 500 years too late ...

[jumnien]

The buddha said that a man's desire is the root of all his suffering! And thus, the root of the suffering in Thailand is the Thai's desire. Likewise elsewhere.

[zaza]

Hitler was Austrian.

I'll start have nightmares from Austrians ;am afraid.

[kmart]

Hitler was Austrian.

I'll start have nightmares from Austrians ;am afraid.

If they like you they might keep you in the cellar for a few years. Like a fine wine. (Or "whine", if you're a TV member. )

Thailand's problems are all its own, btw. Powerful countries always act like gangsters, and the smaller countries like whores. No one plays the latter with more aplomb than dear old LoS. There are no shortage of dumbarse "saviours" willing to come and "save" Thailand from itself, or evil Westerners though. Save yourselves first. Fat alcoholics to the lifeboats first!

Edited May 14, 2008 by kmart

[Bananaman]

Germany was the home of both Hitler and Einstein.

0/2 Must try harder.

Hitler was Austrian. Einstein was Swiss.

Well, with regards to Einstein, Wikipedia disagrees with you. He was first German, then Swiss, then a US citizen.

Irrespective of the nationalities of either character, Peace Blondie actually said that Germany was the home of both, which is entirely correct (even if for Einstein it was but a temporary one).

Anyways back to the topic at hand.....

[Travel2003]

Name me one big problem the Thais have (I'm not talking about their personalities) which it can be said with absolute certainty could not have been introduced/caused by the West at its root or somewhere down the line.

-Corruption.

-HIV spread.

-Alcohol abuse.

-Domestic violance.

-Adultery.

Having mentioned these. Of course, other countries have the same problems. Caused by themselves.

[thaihome]

The white man’s guilt is a heavy burden, some can carry it silently, others cannot help but continue to beat themselves up for it.

TH

Some people don't believe in that kind of bullshit, but I guess you have a good reason to.

Irony

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Irony is a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is an incongruity or discordance between what a speaker or a writer says and what he or she means, or is generally understood.

In modern usage it can also refer to particularly striking examples of incongruities observed in everyday life between what was intended or said and what actually happened.

There is some argument about what is or is not ironic, but all the different senses of irony revolve around the perceived notion of an incongruity between what is said and what is meant; or between an understanding of reality, or an expectation of a reality, and what actually happens.

Irony can be funny, but it does not have to be.

TH

[Gravelrash]

Thailand not perfect in the past ???

500 years ago they had to make a law to stop excessive lesbian orgies ... especially at the royal court ... that's when it all went wrong ... dam_n it ... born 500 years too late ...

So you are a lesbian dreaming about lesbian orgies, why is it that you would have been invited to the Royal court?

[Heng]

You really miss being here, don't you Guesthouse?

That was my second thought after thinking that, "I guess he's moved back here and is having some acclimation issues."

[himachal]

This comment in the OP - "nothing in human behaviour is entirely new" was uttered by King Solomon in Israel, 450 years before the Lord Buddha was born in India - "there is nothing new under the sun." Still true today and forevermore, quoth the raven.

Actually, I think this OP is a continuation of what Guesthouse wrote earlier this week - that the Thais are responsible, almost solely, for anything that ails Thailand.

Not that our home countries have birthed only geniuses of total wisdom and compassion. Germany was the home of both Hitler and Einstein.

True enough, and England of Thatcher and Winnie the Pooh . Thailand of.......... no, let's not follow that road!

[PeaceBlondie]

Germany was the home of both Hitler and Einstein.

0/2 Must try harder.

Hitler was Austrian. Einstein was Swiss.

They both held German citizenship at one time, I believe. You may give me credit, however, for bringing up Hitler this early in an online forum.

[Heng]

No Hitler before 8pm? That'll really send tourism into a tailspin.

[Scott]

The question I have is: Why is it that when one culture is presented with two options from another culture, they usually choose the wrong one!

[egg6447]

I definitely agree that the blame for vast majority of Thailand's problems rest squarely on the shoulders of Thais. Foreigners have only a minimal roll in them. What I don't agree with is the context that we "westreners" should stick together. <deleted> is a westerner anyway? what do they look like? what country are they from, what everyone west of Thailand??? Its not like in the US were you have Indians sticking together because they are Indian or Koreans doing so because they are Korean, those are singular nationalities, Westerners can mean any one of the hundreds of nationalities of folks who are not Thai that live here. Why should they be so inclined to stick together? And why should they not want unappreciative visitors to the kingdom to get lost?

uuhmm whats the question. nice one gh . love the pros. what a contrast ^.

[egg6447]

Name me one big problem the Thais have (I'm not talking about their personalities) which it can be said with absolute certainty could not have been introduced/caused by the West at its root or somewhere down the line.

-Corruption.

-HIV spread.

-Alcohol abuse.

-Domestic violance.

-Adultery.

Having mentioned these. Of course, other countries have the same problems. Caused by themselves.

you missed incest. but then its so common maybe its normal.