Usa Expats: Are You Maintaining Virtual Us Residence?

[Jingthing]

I maintain virtual US residence. I have a US address, US phone number, and US driver's license. I don't live there and hope I never have to live there again. Why do I do this? Mainly to avoid hassles with my existing relationships with US banks, credit card companies, and brokerage houses.

Do you do the same?

[jumnien]

Yes, I even keep a stuffed dummy in front of the TV drinking beer with the remote control in its hand in Pasadena, CA. No one would know I even left!

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Yes, I even keep a stuffed dummy in front of the TV drinking beer with the remote control in its hand in Pasadena, CA. No one would know I even left!

Do you have another stuffed dummy in line outside Saladang waiting for a table?

I keep my virtual address alive for my brokerage account, savings, credit card, etc., all through the same company. No plans to return to the U.S., but I don't want to go through the hassle they would put me through, if they knew I lived abroad.

[toptuan]

Yes, I even keep a stuffed dummy in front of the TV drinking beer with the remote control in its hand in Pasadena, CA. No one would know I even left!

Ah, the collective wisdom of ThaiVisa members provides even more useful ideas!

Actually I also use a USA virtual residence for the same exact reasons. However, since I'm earning Baht in Thailand, I do believe there's a USA/IRS tax advantage to claiming your residence as overseas. I believe the $80,000 foreign earned income exemption requires you to establish your residence as overseas. Hope having a leg in each country (residence/virtual residence) doesn't trip one up eventually!

Edited May 17, 2008 by toptuan

[jumnien]

I think its important that I maintain a mailbox, but own no property or meet any other qualification to remain a California resident for tax purposes.

[Jingthing]

I think there are dangers in either strategy.

I mainly got the idea to do it this way when I visited the Lake area near Guadalajara Mexico (the top US expat destination in the world) and was eavesdropping on the conversation of some lady expats there. They had fessed up about their move and it sounded like their lives were made a living hel_l by the US companies they had been dealing with.

That said, I know whatever way you do it, you are still open to being tripped up one way or another in the future.

Edited May 17, 2008 by Jingthing

[Valjean]

I keep a mailbox (Earth Mail) and phone number (Vonage so it rings here). Really for just two things. For my credit card they don't care where I live and will send things to Thailand however it's a hassle to have a Thai address when I want to order online. Better I tihnk to have that be my US$ & Address account. The only other thing I have is a brokerage account and they didn't care where to send statements but they won't give an ATM card if you're not in the US. There might be some other misc. things that didn't accept a foreign address change but I forget. The IRS uses my Bangkok address so this is my legal residence.

[sfokevin]

I keep a mailbox (Earth Mail)

I looked at this service - Its seems nice but their additional per piece pricing for mail received would end up costing you a fortune from all the junk mail one would get?...

http://www.earthclassmail.com/pricing

Edited May 17, 2008 by sfokevin

[PeaceBlondie]

I do not know if either of the US tests to claim the foreign earned income exemption (which is more like $90,000 this year) requires a foreign address. I now have told the IRS I live here, but I do not think I did the first couple of years, nor did they care. Credit cards and banks, however, think I live in Atlanta and I let them believe it. My pension, social security and the VA know I am here.

[ilyushin]

I virtually removed myself from the US.

Does that count?

[jfchandler]

Like others, keep a virtual mailing address and phone number in the U.S., principally for financial institutions purposes.

I'm using something called MagicJack, a plug-in USB device, that gives me a dialable U.S. area code number here on my PC, and it includes unlimited free calls from overseas back to any # in U.S. or Canada.

Have a mail forwarding service that sends all my mostly bank mail every month via Fed Ex or DHL.

Also keep a CA driver's license and use it to annually get a new international driving permit from AAA, in case I need to use it here occasionally.

Re-registered to vote when I relocated... Looking forward to voting in the Nov. general election.

[jonniebkk]

Not really sure what all this concern about where your official residence is? The test is very simple, it's where you physically live the majority of the time. As to maintaining USA mailboxes and forwarding services, it's a question of convenience. However, just about all bank, brokerage, pension, social security, and state and federal tax statements and materials can also be sent directly to an address in Thailand. For a number of years, I had things sent directly and noting every went astray in the Thai mails.

As for state residency, I maintain income producing real property in California and one of the mailbox forwarding services in the state but it does not make me a resident of the state for tax purposes. After one year of living in LOS, I legally stopped filing Cal. state income tax returns. I do, of course, file federal returns.

[jfchandler]

I believe the original post was a question about whether people maintain a VIRTUAL residences...not about what the qualifications are for one's official residence....

But... as to the issues about banks and related....I know three things...

1. I have a lot of banking and similar relationships, where addresses are maintained and updated via those institution's web sites... I had to update my address in the U.S.A. when I moved here. But in going thru that process, there were few if any of those institutions that offered an online option for selecting a foreign address for mailing purposes. It was only...choose the state in the USA... I think I recall seeing something on the BofA web site that offered a phone number to call, if you want to change to a foreign address. I never called it.

2. And, I never went down that road, because I had already read here, in numerous TV posts, former U.S. residents complaining that they either had been denied issuance of credit or debit cards, or denied renewal of the same when their existing ones expired, because they were showing a foreign (non-USA address) address. I like the relationships I have. And even it was some, but not all, of my financial institutions taking that approach, it would make it worthwhile for me to keep a virtual USA address.

3. Then there is the issue about online retailers typically requiring the address of record on the card used for purchase to match the product delivery address. And since many/most U.S. retailers won't directly ship abroad, keeping a U.S. address on your credit/debit cards makes sense for anyone who's planning to use them to order anything from the U.S. online, either for forwarding onward to Thailand or for pickup during trips back to the States.

[JimGant]

As for state residency, I maintain income producing real property in California and one of the mailbox forwarding services in the state but it does not make me a resident of the state for tax purposes. After one year of living in LOS, I legally stopped filing Cal. state income tax returns.

Unless things have changed, you're supposed to file a non resident tax form (540NR) to report that California income. And, the other unpleasant aspect is that your tax bracket is based on all income, not just that from California sources.

[jstumbo]

Yes, I even keep a stuffed dummy in front of the TV drinking beer with the remote control in its hand in Pasadena, CA. No one would know I even left!

Ah, the collective wisdom of ThaiVisa members provides even more useful ideas!

Actually I also use a USA virtual residence for the same exact reasons. However, since I'm earning Baht in Thailand, I do believe there's a USA/IRS tax advantage to claiming your residence as overseas. I believe the $80,000 foreign earned income exemption requires you to establish your residence as overseas. Hope having a leg in each country (residence/virtual residence) doesn't trip one up eventually!

As long as you are not in the US more than 35 days a year, it is pretty much a slam dunk on getting the exemption. Since there is the residence/physical presence test, and where your tax home is, and where you work. If you are working and do not spend more than 35 days in the US, then you are either making a lot of money in that 35 days in the US, or you are working outside of the US. If you are working outside the US, then you would not have a problem.

Although all the people that work on the Internet in Thailand would have problems because they say they are not working in Thailand because they are doing it over the Internet. So if the servers they use are in the US, then they would be working in the US and would not be able to get the exemption. So for the Thai government, they probably say they are not working in Thailand, and for the US government, they say they are working in Thailand.

[jstumbo]

Have a mail forwarding service that sends all my mostly bank mail every month via Fed Ex or DHL.

Most banks and brokerage houses have electronic statements these days. I have 4 bank accounts in the US and a couple of brokerage accounts, and I have to received a statement in the mail in years. Now I get an email notification so that I can go to their website and view my statements online.

[Jingthing]

Of course the topic is whether we use a virtual US identity or not, to smooth things over.

I did figure the majority of us are doing this, but maybe not such a large majority as indicated in this poll.

Now another fun question: from the point of view of the financial institutions we are fibbing to, is this a type of fraud??????

Edited May 17, 2008 by Jingthing

[PFV]

I maintain virtual US residence. I have a US address, US phone number, and US driver's license. I don't live there and hope I never have to live there again. Why do I do this? Mainly to avoid hassles with my existing relationships with US banks, credit card companies, and brokerage houses.

Do you do the same?

I keep a virtual address at a friend's place in the US, where I visit once a year to pick up the mail. If something urgent arrives, he opens it, scans it, and e-mails it to me. I also kept my US driver's license and will renew it when it expires, and a US cell phone number that I forward to my Skypein number to limit costs. Skype also allows you to dial toll-free numbers in the US, which is a huge convenience.

I changed the address on one credit card to Thailand, but kept the US address on the second to have the best of both worlds. This seems to work quite well, except that every three months or so I need to call them because they block the card due to suspicious overseas transactions. There are no statements to deal with since everything is electronic.

I had changed my brokerage account address to Thailand, but quickly changed it back to the US when I found out about the investing restrictions.

I still keep my US health insurance, with a huge deductible, just in case something really major happens and for peace of mind.

All the above seems to work quite nicely, at least so far.

[jfchandler]

Have a mail forwarding service that sends all my mostly bank mail every month via Fed Ex or DHL.

Most banks and brokerage houses have electronic statements these days. I have 4 bank accounts in the US and a couple of brokerage accounts, and I have to received a statement in the mail in years. Now I get an email notification so that I can go to their website and view my statements online.

Ya correct.... I have a lot of relationships where e-mail/online statements are available, and take advantage of those whenever they are.. Believe me...I'd rather NOT have ANY paper mail, basically.

However, there are a surprising number of institutions, including some very large ones and a lot of the smaller ones as well, that have yet to make that feature available, and so I'm stuck with paper statements.

One example of that is Countrywide Bank, where you can do almost everything online including open new accounts -- but not receive an electronic statement in lieu of paper, at least not yet.

In those cases, I always ask... WHEN... And mostly the answer I get back is... soon... we're working on it.

[jfchandler]

I still keep my US health insurance, with a huge deductible, just in case something really major happens and for peace of mind.

Can't see the reason for doing that, honestly... depending on where you live in Thailand. At least in BKK, I actually think I'd feel better about getting major care here, if I needed it, compared to back home in the U.S. And I keep a health insurance policy based in Thailand that has very good coverage and would allow me access to whatever facility I choose.

When I go back to the U.S., I get health travel insurance for the couple weeks I'm there, just in case.

[Bagwan]

Now another fun question: from the point of view of the financial institutions we are fibbing to, is this a type of fraud??????

I think that for fraud to be in the frame there would have to be some pecuniary advantage accruing to yourself. However offering false information is almost certainly in contravention of any agreement you may have with a financial institution. But then I'm not Perry Mason - although his blonde lady sidekick induced several carnal desires.

[Valjean]

Yes, I even keep a stuffed dummy in front of the TV drinking beer with the remote control in its hand in Pasadena, CA. No one would know I even left!

Ah, the collective wisdom of ThaiVisa members provides even more useful ideas!

Actually I also use a USA virtual residence for the same exact reasons. However, since I'm earning Baht in Thailand, I do believe there's a USA/IRS tax advantage to claiming your residence as overseas. I believe the $80,000 foreign earned income exemption requires you to establish your residence as overseas. Hope having a leg in each country (residence/virtual residence) doesn't trip one up eventually!

As long as you are not in the US more than 35 days a year, it is pretty much a slam dunk on getting the exemption. Since there is the residence/physical presence test, and where your tax home is, and where you work. If you are working and do not spend more than 35 days in the US, then you are either making a lot of money in that 35 days in the US, or you are working outside of the US. If you are working outside the US, then you would not have a problem.

Although all the people that work on the Internet in Thailand would have problems because they say they are not working in Thailand because they are doing it over the Internet. So if the servers they use are in the US, then they would be working in the US and would not be able to get the exemption. So for the Thai government, they probably say they are not working in Thailand, and for the US government, they say they are working in Thailand.

On the Internet issue. I'm starting an Internet business and spent some time with attorneys understanding these issues. Right now my web sites are hosted in Canada. If my web sites were hosted on servers located in the US it could be considered as a physical presence in the US. Something to consider if you’re going that route. Using services in the US is not the same. So for instance I can have my email hosted on servers in the US, or use a mail forwarding service, etc. But the actual servers that provide my services should be outside. I’m sure there different legal opinions on the nuances of this but this was the opinion of one $400 hour attorney specialist in off-shore businesses I went to on the set up of things.

My experience is that credit card companies, banks or brokerages allow foreign addresses and that if you wanted paper statements, proxies, annual reports, etc. they were happy ship them here. My issue was more the nits in this such as ordering online and getting an ATM as I mentioned above. I do recall one of them, I think my credit card, does have you confirm both your mailing address and home address and I guess I am being a little dishonest on that. Perhaps I should change that to be accurate and see if there is any implication. But in the scheme of things it seem small especially since I’ve had both of these accounts for 20+ years so it’s not like I’m signing up to commit fraud or something. If something came up I’d just say I wasn’t paying attention and fix it. But one wonders…

Question on Drivers Licenses. I have a current WA license. There I did use a mail box address and they are very specific that it should be residence. OK I feel better confessing that... I’m not sure what I’ll do when it expires if the requirement of a WA or other state license is to be a resident of that state. I do have a Thai driver’s license now. What are others doing about this? If I keep a current Thai license is that OK? Can I use that here to go to AAA Bangkok (are they here?) and get an International License?

[PeaceBlondie]

I still keep my US health insurance, with a huge deductible, just in case something really major happens and for peace of mind.

Can't see the reason for doing that, honestly... depending on where you live in Thailand. At least in BKK, I actually think I'd feel better about getting major care here, if I needed it, compared to back home in the U.S. And I keep a health insurance policy based in Thailand that has very good coverage and would allow me access to whatever facility I choose.

When I go back to the U.S., I get health travel insurance for the couple weeks I'm there, just in case.

We are a very diverse group. We cannot use SS Medicare overseas, but my pension health coverage pays for my inpatient charges, after the fact. I get excellent health care here in Chiang Mai, for peanuts. I will see a professor of neurology for my quarterly checkup this morning, and pay $11, which in the USA might cost $200.

No, I do not think it is fraud, surely not criminal fraud. Dual residence in this age is fairly common. None of my banks, cc companies, health providers, etc., issue warnings against using alternate addresses.

[jimmym40]

jonnie - I believe another poster here is correct. If you have income from California, you must file a Calf income tax report. That's what I got caught up in a few years ago with Colorado. After I sold the property, somehow (I think the title company), they automatically took out state tax which was enormous, and when I tried to get all/some of it back, that's when I found out I didn't file/pay state tax for 18 yrs and I should have.

[Heng]

I still own my old college condo but have it leased out. My parents still have the house I grew up in but that's being cared for by the next generation of US Heng's over there. We keep a small 1 bedroom 1 bath apartment separate on the property with a huge drop in bin for a mailbox and give them the key to the box to have them sort our mail for us. I pick it up once a year, but it's mostly junk and replacement ATM cards. Best to choose banks where you can select "online only, no paper statements" banking.

I also keep an ATT Wireless cell # on permanent international roaming, so I have a US permanent address (more real than virtual though since we still own it and pay prop. taxes on it) and a US cell # (but I am making that a little white lie type situation by calling that my "home" number).

TX Driver license is not a huge issue as I'm back there every year anyway (and I think it's like 6 years at a time with one 4 year online renewal allowed each time) and a renewal takes 15 minutes at the DPS.

The main issues (that I see some of my friends have) for those using virtual addresses, as mentioned is when for whatever reason your mail starts bouncing back to the financial or whatever institutions for any of a number of reasons. Sometimes a new mailman won't deliver to an address of "Jackson's" when you're a "Johnson." Or sometimes a bank might tell you... "no problem, just come down to the branch and we'll clear it up lickety split" (not easy for expats who have burned their bridges), "sorry this can't be done over the phone."

[Naam]

i am a German and maintain a mailing address and a bank account in the U.S.

[cali]

As long as you are not in the US more than 35 days a year, it is pretty much a slam dunk on getting the exemption...So for the Thai government, they probably say they are not working in Thailand, and for the US government, they say they are working in Thailand.

Isn't this illegal? You just told the US on your tax form you are a resident of Thailand to avoid taxes. But you aren't paying the taxes in Thailand. There is no free lunch--you have to pay tax in one or the other on this money or hope you don't get caught. If the US shares information with Thailand, it is probably a matter of time until you get caught. Please correct me if I am wrong as this is my understanding.

[Ulysses G.]

I think that this is wrong. You only have to pay taxes in Thailand if you are generating income there and you only have to pay taxes in the US if your income in Thailand is more than $85,000 dollars per year.

[dingdongrb]

Like others, keep a virtual mailing address and phone number in the U.S., principally for financial institutions purposes. All my financial institutions and mortgage company have my Thai address. I figure since I do all my banking and bill paying online, as well as receive statements, why do I need a USA address. They don't seem to mind other than some of their systems are not able to accept it. Oh well, that's their problem.

I'm using something called MagicJack, a plug-in USB device, that gives me a dialable U.S. area code number here on my PC, and it includes unlimited free calls from overseas back to any # in U.S. or Canada. Why bother with another gizmo when Skype is virtually free?

Have a mail forwarding service that sends all my mostly bank mail every month via Fed Ex or DHL. Again, why not do all your banking totally online?

Also keep a CA driver's license and use it to annually get a new international driving permit from AAA, in case I need to use it here occasionally. Yes, my Colorado license is still good for another 6 years. I did get a AAA International license when I left a few years back but I thought to myself, I would be crazy to get another one. I have been stopped numerous times in LOS driving. Only once did they ask for my license. I then showed them my CO one and they, along with the others that stopped me and asked for none, let me go once I gladly handed them 100 baht or so...

Re-registered to vote when I relocated... Looking forward to voting in the Nov. general election.

One other note to add, the IRS tax empemtion rule only applies as long as you are out of the USA 330 days each year. So watch how long those trips back home are for, it may cost you some serious $$$

[dingdongrb]

As long as you are not in the US more than 35 days a year, it is pretty much a slam dunk on getting the exemption...So for the Thai government, they probably say they are not working in Thailand, and for the US government, they say they are working in Thailand.

Isn't this illegal? You just told the US on your tax form you are a resident of Thailand to avoid taxes. But you aren't paying the taxes in Thailand. There is no free lunch--you have to pay tax in one or the other on this money or hope you don't get caught. If the US shares information with Thailand, it is probably a matter of time until you get caught. Please correct me if I am wrong as this is my understanding.

Nope not illegal at all... By the way, do you really think that the USA (IRS) is going to allow LOS to tap into their mainframes? I mean look how many years it actually took for the various states in the USA to allow each of the DVM (Divison of Motor Vehicles) offices to share information.... And I would speculate that MADD had a lot to do with it.

I have been living in LOS and China and have been tax exempt from everyone for the past 3 years and loving it! Now if only my boss would give me a raise to make my salary above the $85k line, I would glad to pay SOME taxes.