Ulysses G. Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) An very old man told me that a few days ago he bought a small amount of ganja from a Tuk-Tuk driver and a few moments later six policemen came bursting into his room and arrested him. They brought him to the police station and threw him in with 250 prisoners crammed in one boiling hot room. The next day he was told that if he signed 20 pages of Thai documents in Thai with no interpretation he would be let out that day, but would have to go to court later. If he refused, he would have to stay in jail 3 or 4 months just waiting trail. Would you have signed the papers? What should he have done". Edited May 20, 2008 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 To get out of a situation like that, I think I would have signed the papers! I know that is a foolish way to think about it, but I probably would have done anything including nawing my own leg off to get out of there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KireB Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 An very old man told me that a few days ago he bought a small amount of ganja from a Tuk-Tuk driver and a few moments later six policemen came bursting into his room and arrested him.They brought him to the police station and threw him in with 250 prisoners crammed in one boiling hot room. The next day he was told that if he signed 20 pages of Thai documents in Thai with no interpretation he would be let out that day, but would have to go to court later. If he refused, he would have to stay in jail 3 or 4 months just waiting trail. Would you have signed the papers? What should he have done". He shouldn't have bought pleasure herbs from a tuk-tuk driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 Very true, but it is not too hard to imagine being framed by police in Thailand and getting in a simular situation. What would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazeeboy Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 an old man should know better,the jail is not supposed to be nice ,otherwise people would'nt fear going in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFD Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) Well, if he told you that this story happened to him 'a few days ago', then he obviously got out of jail before the 3-4 months. Either way, if it were me, I wouldn't sign <deleted>. That is, if I didn't already know how to read Thai. My rationale would be that they were obviously making me agree to something EVEN WORSE than the hot, sweaty room. From what I understand, many Thai police officials get 'accolades' when longstanding unsolved cases are finally 'solved'. For all an illiterate person would know, they are admitting to a murder that occurred in 1993. So no, I wouldn't sign. Especially since I could read it and tell them how ridiculous it was. One more reason to learn the language, I guess. However, I really hope I don't have to ever use it for THAT purpose! BFD! Edited May 20, 2008 by BFD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I have no sympathy for the old man he should just sign the papers IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 Does anyone know what your rights are in that situation? Is it true that you can't get out with out signing what I guess is a confession? Is it possible to contact a lawyer before making a decision about what to plead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumpuiman Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I would not sign. I would expect that they were lying about my release anyway. I remember many moons ago, my brother was thrown in jail for being around the wrong people (who happened to have 2 kilo's of cocaine) His first call was a lawyer, who said immediately...."Don't sign anything".... He was free the next morning, no charges. Another friend, same situation, same night, same place....he signed.....5 years in jail. This was in the U.S. But the logic applies everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Does anyone know what your rights are in that situation? Is it true that you can't get out with out signing what I guess is a confession?Is it possible to contact a lawyer before making a decision about what to plead? First call is to ones Embassy or Consulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krub Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I would not sign. I would expect that they were lying about my release anyway. I remember many moons ago, my brother was thrown in jail for being around the wrong people (who happened to have 2 kilo's of cocaine) His first call was a lawyer, who said immediately...."Don't sign anything".... He was free the next morning, no charges. Another friend, same situation, same night, same place....he signed.....5 years in jail. This was in the U.S. But the logic applies everywhere. Logic yes but do the Thai police let you call your lawyer (supposing you have one and you have his number in your mobile and he answers your call) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 Does anyone know what your rights are in that situation? Is it true that you can't get out with out signing what I guess is a confession?Is it possible to contact a lawyer before making a decision about what to plead? First call is to ones Embassy or Consulate. Is that a "right", like back home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 What's all the fuss about signing something he can't read. The Idiot signed the Thai Immigration Card which had clear warnings about drugs in Thailand - He clearly did not read that notice so why the sudden need to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Sign it! At least after getting out he can then find a good lawyer to have the document voided (seeing as he obviously did not know what he was sign, i'm assuming it would be fairly easy for a decent lawyer to contest such a document, no matter what it said). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetchariot Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Does anyone know what your rights are in that situation? Is it true that you can't get out with out signing what I guess is a confession?Is it possible to contact a lawyer before making a decision about what to plead? Come on UG, TIT you have no rights whatsoever, especially during the new 'war on drugs'. Sign it!At least after getting out he can then find a good lawyer to have the document voided (seeing as he obviously did not know what he was sign, i'm assuming it would be fairly easy for a decent lawyer to contest such a document, no matter what it said). Not a chance. This isn't some cosy courtroom in the US where civil rights apply. You sign, you do the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLock Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 From my experiences, first rule is dont sign anything. If you dont sign, the police actually have to prove a case against you. If you do, case is closed. Second rule is dont believe what a policeman tells you. He will say whatever he needs to say to make you sign a confession and it will be an open and shut case in the future. Once you have signed, nothing a lawyer can do later. They will try to scare you with threats and leave you locked up a few days to soften you up. Assuming you have someone outside to help, you will make bail in a few days after making an appearance at the courts (via handcuffs and prison truck) and then you can go see a lawyer. If you don't have anyone that can pay bail and process the paperwork...your screwed basically. You should be able to make a call and you can get visitors twice a day to help work through it. This guy sounds like he is pretty much screwed if he did sign. I never understand why people do drugs in this country. Just crazy. All I can say is that I hope the judge had a good day and doesnt hate farangs... ...and wear a clean shirt and tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantbkk Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Sign it! What does he have to lose? You can always say, like everyone else, that they was coerced into signing something in a foreign language for a promise of release. It is imperative to get ones self out of jail. For me the drug laws and penalties are a deterrent and should be for others. Those who end up thinking they can getaway with breaking the drug laws here and other countries with severe penalties obviously never finished high school or were one of those special students that passed just so the school could get rid of them. Guests in a foreign country should take special care to avoid jail and one way to do that is not violate local laws. I don't think any of us want to be paraded around as an example of a foreigner trying to put something over on the locals. If you're prone to dabble in drugs there are may countries where you can practice you addiction. Go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) Sign it!At least after getting out he can then find a good lawyer to have the document voided (seeing as he obviously did not know what he was sign, i'm assuming it would be fairly easy for a decent lawyer to contest such a document, no matter what it said). Not a chance. This isn't some cosy courtroom in the US where civil rights apply. You sign, you do the time. I guess we make our choices; i'd go with the competent lawyer approach, whereas you would go with the sweat it out (for 3-4 months) by yourself approach. Edited May 20, 2008 by dave111223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLock Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Sign it!At least after getting out he can then find a good lawyer to have the document voided (seeing as he obviously did not know what he was sign, i'm assuming it would be fairly easy for a decent lawyer to contest such a document, no matter what it said). Not a chance. This isn't some cosy courtroom in the US where civil rights apply. You sign, you do the time. I guess we make our choices; i'd go with the competent lawyer approach, whereas you would go with the sweat it out (for 3-4 months) by yourself approach. Unfortunately, I think this is the exact attitude that will end up in trouble. Sign nothing. But hey, your choice. You will not be locked up indefinately if you can make bail. A court visit, a nod of the head that you understand the charges, payment of bail, a few signatures, you can walk away. Maybe 2-5 days in a local lockup. Not a big deal. Signing that confession and you have guaranteed a stay in Thailand for a few years with no visa issues. This is Thailand. Whilst there are laws, how they are implemented is up to the discretion of the police and courts. Competent lawyer? As competent as they may be, they will cost you a lot of money, and there are certainly no guarantees. I'd also take what your lawyer says with a grain of salt as well. Nancy Reagan was on to something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) The Bangkok Post did a big article on the court system in Thailand and they seemed to suggest that one's sentence would usually be much longer if you refused to sign a confession and basically plead guilty when approached shortly after being arrested. They made it sound like this is business as usual in Thailand. By the way, the older man that I have been talking about, did, indeed, sign the papers, but he hasn't been able to find a lawyer who could get them and have them interpreted so far - never mine contested. He is very worried. Edited May 20, 2008 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onzestan Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 He is very worried. No sympathy here. He should have worried before. onzestan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I read part of that series... it was SCARY!!!! Here's a link to a version of the BKK Post article... Here's another link to a cached version of the same article.... And a related op-ed piece.... There supposedly were some other articles on this same topic...but...I can't find them online.... The above cited article, at the very end, says it is the second part of a series on the lack of due process in Thailand, and that the first part ran on Feb. 17, 2008...but I've never been able to find it. ... Nor do I know if there were subsequent parts of the series. I think EVERYONE staying here as an EXPAT should read this...and understand it. Even if you keep very clean, it's always possible, sometime through the years, to find yourself unexpectedly or unknowingly in the middle of something... What a person does in that situation could have very big consequences for their life and well-being... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozsamurai Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 To sign any 'confession' in any country, even your native language is dangerous and surely is going to bite you in the arse one day. To what degree would an embassy be able to assist here in reality when you signed on the dotted line saying you did god knows what!! Where would a lawyer begin to defend you when you admitted you did it? I think as tough as it may be, a few days in prison toughing it out silently would be the way to go. At some point someone has to let you contact the outside. Then you bring out whatever big guns you have. I think its better you let police think you are an idiot, rather than opening your mouth and proving it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrIrrisistable Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Why did'nt the old dude just slip the boys a few rupee and be done with it....or at the very least he should have got the tuk tuk guy to take him to a tailor shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyF Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 One of the stupidest things I have ever done was sign a document by the police that I couldn't read. I was in Bali aged 21 and at the end of a boozy night out we were walking home when a group of 5-6 locals demanded our money. Me and the guy I was with refused and a small fight started during which they got my friends wallet and ran off. We reported it to the police for insurance purposes and the next day 4 cops showed up at the hotel and demanded we sign documents (without an English copy) allowing them to charge the attackers, who they said they had caught (although unsurprisingly there was no sign of my friends wallet). I refused but the police would not leave until I signed and after about an hour of increasingly aggressive discussion, stupidly I agreed to sign and the police left. I was worried sick about what I had signed and for the rest of my stay I convinced myself I would have problems leaving the country. In the end it came to nothing and I left with no problems, but this was purely good luck on my behalf as I could have been signing any kind of confession. I've always wondered what it was I signed and whether I was used in the conviction/setup of someone not related to the crime that we reported. Or maybe they were telling the truth, but it seems strange that they wouldn't at least get us to identify the people they arrested and provide a copy in English? I'll never know now but it certainly taught me a lesson and looking back I can't quite believe I was so stupid/naive. Like many have said - I'd never again sign anything I couldn't read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmsally Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 As far as I understand the system, you would be definitely better off not signing it. Normally if you have signed a confession , somebody would need to bail you out before the court appearance; so I'm not sure how this man got out. As I understand it from Thai lawyer friends, if you were arrested, then is the time to contact your lawyer and extracate yourself. Almost impossible for them to extracate you if you have confessed. You are then ditched into the process as a guilty person. Of course there is a slight problem in that this guy was guilty. But no one in their right minds would sign paperwork that they couldn't read. If there was a language problem he should have asked them to do an Eng version or get the tourist police to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 If the system is really as corrupt as everyone seems to be saying, why don't they (the police) just fake the signature and say you sign it, seeing as you never have any chance to contest this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiflyer1 Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Friend of mine got arrested at the airport leaving Thailand with 2kgs of marajuana on him Oct 23rd last year...........he was caught red handed so admitted his guilt.........couldn't make bail....................spent 6 months on remand and has just got 3 years inside. He was dealt with leinently because of his age 76. Interestingly enough he was offered 2 years and 100k baht fine but didn't have the cash. Embassy could give support , but not help his cause with the Thai courts unless physical abuse was occuring. .......................................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do... more so for some one age 76..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrIrrisistable Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 How do you think he got to 76....no problems man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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