Denial Or ..?

[klikster]

I've long been interested in upscale retirement communities. Not "nursing homes", but for lack of a better description, dedicated Moo Baans with nice facilities that cater to we older folks.I have had a number of conversations with guys 60 and over who "wouldn't be interested in a place like that at all".

The reasons they give vary from:

"I'll never be ready for anything like that"

to

"I want independence."

to

"My wife will take care of me."

There seems to be a lot of denial among the expat community. Maybe it's virtual testosterone. Maybe it's refusing to face one's mortality. For me, if there was a stable and decently priced "Leisure World" in Thailand, I would be looking for a way in. I'm curious how many senior expats here have a plan for "help" when you can't do it all on your own?

[thomast]

That a great idea for a business set-up. Florida in Thailand at a quarter of the price.

[LooseCannon]

Can't for the life of me imagine why anybody would want to live amonst a group of old & dying people.

I would much prefer to live in a moo baan where there is the sound of children's laughter, pretty girls walking around & the general hustle & bustle of life.

Must be bloody depressing watching all the neighbours drop like flies.

I think the only people in denial are those that live in these places, maybe they don't feel so old if there are surrounded by geriatrics.

[klikster]

Can't for the life of me imagine why anybody would want to live amonst a group of old & dying people.

I would much prefer to live in a moo baan where there is the sound of children's laughter, pretty girls walking around & the general hustle & bustle of life.

Must be bloody depressing watching all the neighbours drop like flies.

I think the only people in denial are those that live in these places, maybe they don't feel so old if there are surrounded by geriatrics.

That picture you painted is pretty convenient to your "comments". Actually, all of us are dying .. it's just the timing that's in question. BTW, how old are you, LC?

[LooseCannon]

Can't for the life of me imagine why anybody would want to live amonst a group of old & dying people.

I would much prefer to live in a moo baan where there is the sound of children's laughter, pretty girls walking around & the general hustle & bustle of life.

Must be bloody depressing watching all the neighbours drop like flies.

I think the only people in denial are those that live in these places, maybe they don't feel so old if there are surrounded by geriatrics.

That picture you painted is pretty convenient to your "comments". Actually, all of us are dying .. it's just the timing that's in question. BTW, how old are you, LC?

52

I will still feel the same way in 10 years time.

My comments may well be 'convenient' but they are also brutally honest.

[taxexile]

i think they are a great idea.

when i get to that stage in my life , and if there is nobody to call on for help , it would be comforting to live in a community where there is help when needed and facilities catering for those who cant look after themselves as well as they did when they were younger.

i certainly would not like to rely on thai neighbours for assistance.

i have visited elderly relatives in the uk who live in small self contained apartments in condos where there is 24 hour help , social activities , nursing care etc.

they are not miserable places at all , we are all heading there one way or another , old age is not an easy time for a lot of people and what might seem like a house in h3ll for a 40 year old may seem like heaven on earth for an incapacitated 75 year old.

run well , they could give the investors a profit and the residents a quality of life that they could not get if they were living independantly or living with a resentful family who cant be bothered.

[Ray1167]

I've seen a place like this , exactly as you describe it . A kind of open air nursing home for geriatrics to play . I visited there once , and I'm sure the name of it was Pat something . Pat Ya . Pay E Ya. That's it.

[Peterpan]

That is a great idea for a business, just hit the nail on the C........ oops sorry mate.

A mate of mine said that when he was around 70 he would go home to a

retirement home in Canada, I said what for. You will have lived here for

10 years, you have everything you want and now another 5 to go and

then go back. What the F..K for.

I think I will look in to this. I can imagine the advert in the National

paper back home.

Old age (MALE ONLY) Retirement home for those ones who want the

best from the best in Thailand.

5 Star food, Menue of your choice delivered to your room,

25 year old Dollies as nurses, Or 25 year old Nurses as Dollies.

Sauna and Massage available 24/7 to residents only and theres guest.

12 seater Minibus for Friday and Saturday nights out with the lads

Guaranteed to get back and not alone.

It wil be reserved for midweek golf and the half way stop over at the B/Fly Bar.

All rooms come with King size bed walk in wardrobe full Bathroom with

Jaquzzi for 2 or 3 and fully mirrored. Sat TV for all your live football in

all rooms.

(No Minibar) just a complete Full Bar in your room with look alike Nursing staff

as your personnel Bar staff. (Or Trolly Dolly)

All inclusive.

[FBN]

I can just imagine the visa runs

Maybe the word "run" would be not really the right one....

Edited May 27, 2008 by FBN

[klikster]

Can't for the life of me imagine why anybody would want to live amonst a group of old & dying people.

I would much prefer to live in a moo baan where there is the sound of children's laughter, pretty girls walking around & the general hustle & bustle of life.

Must be bloody depressing watching all the neighbours drop like flies.

I think the only people in denial are those that live in these places, maybe they don't feel so old if there are surrounded by geriatrics.

That picture you painted is pretty convenient to your "comments". Actually, all of us are dying .. it's just the timing that's in question. BTW, how old are you, LC?

52

I will still feel the same way in 10 years time.

Um .. you can't know that you will be here in 10 years.

My comments may well be 'convenient' but they are also brutally honest.

Brutal? They're opinions ..

[egg6447]

a nursing home type deal sound good to me, as a resident, and a business. years ago i met a couple as in boy/girl, backpackers in cambodia i think. he was danish/scando, she cant remember. anyway they asked for my oppinion ref exactly that, they were both trained in the medical world and had a rough outline plan. totaly doable id say. as apposed to 600/1k in uk a week . yep thats a real business.

[egg6447]

Can't for the life of me imagine why anybody would want to live amonst a group of old & dying people.

I would much prefer to live in a moo baan where there is the sound of children's laughter, pretty girls walking around & the general hustle & bustle of life.

Must be bloody depressing watching all the neighbours drop like flies.

I think the only people in denial are those that live in these places, maybe they don't feel so old if there are surrounded by geriatrics.

you are so right. but. but. thats because your not ready for the o/f/h. i met, used to chat to an old yank on patters beach several years ago , he was frail then. however he got worse and was looking for a lady to live in and take care of him. dont know how he got on, guess hes smileing down on us now. not seen him in years. beware it comes to all of us if we live long enough. remember the death rate is unchanged in history. one each. may your god be with you.

[LooseCannon]

I will still feel the same way in 10 years time.

Um .. you can't know that you will be here in 10 years.

With this sort of logic why bother get up in the morning, there's a good chance that you won't make it to lunchtime.

Brutal? They're opinions ..

It's reality. The mortality rate in a retirement community made up of people aged 60+ is considerably higher than that of the general community.

Even though I am not over 60 years old I must be considered by you to be in 'denial'.

Add to your list "I don't want to be surrounded by old farangs".

I like babies, young children, teenagers, young adults, middle aged & old people. I like being around all these age groups, I like talking to them & socializing with them.

That's the beauty of Thailand - four generations living under one roof.

If you want to live in a 'retirement village' - good luck you & I wish well.

For myself I have zero interest or desire to live in a 'retiremant village' & I have given my reasons.

[Carib]

I can just imagine the visa runs

Maybe the word "run" would be not really the right one....

Visa crawls ??

[FBN]

I can just imagine the visa runs

Maybe the word "run" would be not really the right one....

Visa crawls ??

Visa "Shuffle" maybe..

Visa "Roll" for those who use other means..

Visa "Two-step" for the lads with the walking aids...

Thailand immigration's worst nightmare!

Imagine "forgotten" renewal dates; lost passports, broken hearing aids, misplaced false teeth... All happening in the visa office!!

[klikster]

I will still feel the same way in 10 years time.

Um .. you can't know that you will be here in 10 years.

With this sort of logic why bother get up in the morning, there's a good chance that you won't make it to lunchtime.

It's not "logic" it's reality .. which you seem to be conveniently ignoring.

Even though I am not over 60 years old I must be considered by you to be in 'denial'.

Actually, I believe you are in denial about your mortality.

[klikster]

Thailand immigration's worst nightmare!

Imagine "forgotten" renewal dates; lost passports, broken hearing aids, misplaced false teeth... All happening in the visa office!!

What a genuinely wonderful person you seem to be.

[TheDon]

When the time comes and I get too old to do anything and cant help myself, thats the time to accidently fall off the balcony. I would never want to go through being so helpless that you cant wipe your ass anymore.

But Im hoping that will be about 50-60 years away for me

[FBN]

I refuse to eat soup to this day; I still enjoy solid food. I know, one day, I'll be sitting there, drooling on my chest and being spoonfed soup till the end of days. Don't want to go there now..

I always pray: Please, may I lose my mind before I lose my teeth...

[LooseCannon]

I will still feel the same way in 10 years time.

Um .. you can't know that you will be here in 10 years.

With this sort of logic why bother get up in the morning, there's a good chance that you won't make it to lunchtime.

It's not "logic" it's reality .. which you seem to be conveniently ignoring.

Even though I am not over 60 years old I must be considered by you to be in 'denial'.

Actually, I believe you are in denial about your mortality.

All totally irrelevant to your original post.

You have indicated that you have had a "... number of conversations with guys 60 and over who "wouldn't be interested in a place like that at all".

They gave you their reasons, you don't seem to be able to accept that their reasons are valid, instead indicating that they must be in denial & refusing to face their own mortality.

"Maybe it's virtual testosterone". - whatever that means.

I have given you my reasons for my total lack of interest in living in an 'upscale retirement community', you don't agree with them, so according to you I must be in denial about my own mortality too.

You throw something out onto a public forum, don't expect everybody to agree with you.

At least make an effort to argue your point in a rational manner.

[klikster]

I will still feel the same way in 10 years time.

Um .. you can't know that you will be here in 10 years.

With this sort of logic why bother get up in the morning, there's a good chance that you won't make it to lunchtime.

It's not "logic" it's reality .. which you seem to be conveniently ignoring.

Even though I am not over 60 years old I must be considered by you to be in 'denial'.

Actually, I believe you are in denial about your mortality.

All totally irrelevant to your original post.

You have indicated that you have had a "... number of conversations with guys 60 and over who "wouldn't be interested in a place like that at all".

They gave you their reasons, you don't seem to be able to accept that their reasons are valid, instead indicating that they must be in denial & refusing to face their own mortality.

"Maybe it's virtual testosterone". - whatever that means.

I have given you my reasons for my total lack of interest in living in an 'upscale retirement community', you don't agree with them, so according to you I must be in denial about my own mortality too.

You throw something out onto a public forum, don't expect everybody to agree with you.

At least make an effort to argue your point in a rational manner.

The only "arguments" I see here is yours.

You seem to know absolutely that you will not die in the next 10 years ..

You don't seem to be able to read very well ..

Because I realize my mortality, "With this sort of logic why bother get up in the morning, there's a good chance that you won't make it to lunchtime." I guess that makes sense to you, but there is no logic there.

And here "I have given you my reasons for my total lack of interest in living in an 'upscale retirement community', you don't agree with them, so according to you I must be in denial about my own mortality too."

Please show me where I disagreed with your "reasons"

I asked a few rhetorical questions. You gave some .. what I consider .. arrogant/ignorant answers.

Good luck with you view of life though.

Edited May 28, 2008 by klikster

[LooseCannon]

Totally irrelevant waffle.

Read your original post.

[papajohn]

When the time comes and I get too old to do anything and cant help myself, thats the time to accidently fall off the balcony. I would never want to go through being so helpless that you cant wipe your ass anymore.

But Im hoping that will be about 50-60 years away for me

I'm with you on this one, Florida in Thailand heaven help me please.

Instead of accidently falling , I'm hoping its her Thai boyfriend that helps me over the side

[distortedlink]

I've long been interested in upscale retirement communities. Not "nursing homes", but for lack of a better description, dedicated Moo Baans with nice facilities that cater to we older folks.I have had a number of conversations with guys 60 and over who "wouldn't be interested in a place like that at all".

The reasons they give vary from:

"I'll never be ready for anything like that"

to

"I want independence."

to

"My wife will take care of me."

There seems to be a lot of denial among the expat community. Maybe it's virtual testosterone. Maybe it's refusing to face one's mortality. For me, if there was a stable and decently priced "Leisure World" in Thailand, I would be looking for a way in. I'm curious how many senior expats here have a plan for "help" when you can't do it all on your own?

Back in the Uk my grandparents were moved into one of these what they called pensioner estates. They were both in there 80s at the time and it was a last resort accommodation when it became unpractical for them to stay in their three-bedroom house anymore. The estate had a resident porter, an on site shop and panic button if my grandparents needed urgent assistance.

But that was England. In Thailand Western elderly long stay residents are mostly male living on some type of pension. For those who find themselves unable to cope living in regular accommodation, usually hire the services of a full time daily or live in housekeeper/carer. I know several elderly English guys here in Chiang Mai that already have this arrangement. It works very well both ways, the pensioner is cared for and the housekeeper has a guaranteed regular income.

The creation of specialised housing estates for knock-kneed knackered old Farangs is a good idea, but will never work in Thailand.

Edited May 28, 2008 by distortedlink

[pumpuiman]

This is a great idea. Considering the HUGE costs associated with assisted living communities in the west.

I have a friend who has just moved his Mother in to such a place...5000 dollars a month. Thats on the low end of the spectrum.

Imagine what 5,000-10,000 a month could do in Thailand.

Run responsibly it could greatly improve the quality of life of many seniors.

Far more amenities could be provided, as well as a much higher ratio of professional health care workers to patients (residents)

If it were worked out where some sort of immigration desk could be in place to assist with visa issues (again, money could talk here) it would be ideal.

If I could no longer care for my parents, and had a choice between a mediocre facility and a virtual paradise....I know the choice I'd make.

[sunreader]

Is this a good business idea or are there such institutions already running?

Where as in the UK a pensioner could be paying £500pw in a care home or something similar, surely similar institutions could provided a superb service for half the price here in Thailand.

Where would you rather your relatives or yourself spend your last days? being looked after by the scum of the earth on minimum wage in Birmingham or by some caring well paid nurse in a place by the beach?

What do people think?

[nycjoe]

I have heard that the Swedes, have a deal where they have pay $1000us a month and for that they get a two bedroom bungalow, all food, maid service and massage. Down by the beaches somewhere, never have to leave the compound. I am sure that in the community there is assisted living of some sort. good Idea though if run right, but of course there's the rub.

[Tomkagai]

Is this a good business idea or are there such institutions already running?

Where as in the UK a pensioner could be paying £500pw in a care home or something similar, surely similar institutions could provided a superb service for half the price here in Thailand.

Where would you rather your relatives or yourself spend your last days? being looked after by the scum of the earth on minimum wage in Birmingham or by some caring well paid nurse in a place by the beach?

What do people think?

Could set it up on Walking street or Soi 6, sure we could get the girls to dress up in what ever uniforms the OAP's wanted not just nurses uniforms...

[dclaryjr]

Of the many reasons my wife wants to retire in Thailand, the top is that she doesn't want to end up in any kind of "old folk's home." She knows she can return to her village and be cared for until her dying day. She says I'll get the same treatment but I'm counting on being the first to kick!

[pumpuiman]

Here's a LINK

to a related thread already running.