I Just Don't Get It

[FarangCravings]

Ok call me ignorant but after almost 2 years here I still cant get an answer to where all the money goes that all the people give to the monks temples boxes all over the place filled with cash

I went to my wifes village and went to the temple where i watch piss poor people giving there hard earned money to the temples which I am sure they need more than the temples all so they get lucky well after several trips down there I dont see there luck changed

So my question is

WHERES THE CASH GO

What good do they do with it as i have not seen anything other than building lavish temples so people can continue to give the little money they have.

They get free food each morning and yes i know they have to pay for electricity etc but were talking BILLIONS and BILLIONS of Baht

I have asked multiple thais as to where the cash goes and whats done with it and unbeleivable NO ONE KNOWS

And if Monks arn't supposed to touch money then who counts all that money in the temples and the donation boxes

Please enlighten me

Edited June 1, 2008 by FarangCravings

[apetley]

Organised religion.

The biggest money making scam on the planet!

Promise the gullible, desperate or just plain stupid what they don't or cannot have and they will pay up.

[garro]

People believe they are making merit for themselves and it is their right to do so. Many Buddhists find themselves unwilling to move along the path described by the Buddha because they likely feel attached to the worldly life. They do the next best thing which for them is making merit for a better life at some later date.

The monks in some temples get large sums of money which they have never been trained to manage and they are often not held accountable for. It is the Thai way at present. Some Thai monks in the past have complained about this state of affairs.

I think that it is important to remember that the Thais are not doing anything different from other religious groups around the world. Who doesn't want a big bright temple? It is there culture.

[garro]

Organised religion.

The biggest money making scam on the planet!

Promise the gullible, desperate or just plain stupid what they don't or cannot have and they will pay up.

This part of the forum is about people interested in Buddhism. If you don't like the religion/philosophy why bother posting in this part of the forum? Do you believe that your beliefs somehow are of such importance that they need to be posted here?

[IMA_FARANG]

Ok call me ignorant but after almost 2 years here I still cant get an answer to where all the money goes that all the people give to the monks temples boxes all over the place filled with cash

I went to my wifes village and went to the temple where i watch piss poor people giving there hard earned money to the temples which I am sure they need more than the temples all so they get lucky well after several trips down there I dont see there luck changed

So my question is

WHERES THE CASH GO

What good do they do with it as i have not seen anything other than building lavish temples so people can continue to give the little money they have.

They get free food each morning and yes i know they have to pay for electricity etc but were talking BILLIONS and BILLIONS of Baht

I have asked multiple thais as to where the cash goes and whats done with it and unbeleivable NO ONE KNOWS

And if Monks arn't supposed to touch money then who counts all that money in the temples and the donation boxes

Please enlighten me

Why, did you have a bad day?

Shurely you must have something other to do than complain about something you don't seem to know anything about?

I'm not going to try to say every Buddhist monk in Thailand is a saint. But if you bothered to check you would find that many Wats have orphanages, hospitals, etc. that they support. They put a lot of money into helping poor people improve their lives.

But if you are really worried, find the head of a Wat who speaks English and ask him to show you what they do with the money. He may be only to happy to show you.

And Billions and Billions of Baht? Isn't that a little overstated? I mean if there are 100 million people in Thailand, and each one gives a thousand baht, that still only adds up to 10 billion baht. Billions and billions of baht is an over statement, isn't it.

[FarangCravings]

Why, did you have a bad day?

Shurely you must have something other to do than complain about something you don't seem to know anything about?

I'm not going to try to say every Buddhist monk in Thailand is a saint. But if you bothered to check you would find that many Wats have orphanages, hospitals, etc. that they support. They put a lot of money into helping poor people improve their lives.

But if you are really worried, find the head of a Wat who speaks English and ask him to show you what they do with the money. He may be only to happy to show you.

And Billions and Billions of Baht? Isn't that a little overstated? I mean if there are 100 million people in Thailand, and each one gives a thousand baht, that still only adds up to 10 billion baht. Billions and billions of baht is an over statement, isn't it.

So you dont know either LOL

Guess my questions will not be answered here either LOL

If they are doing such good as you say then why is it that no thais i ask know that ???? they cannot tell me where the BILLIONS of baht go

10 billion is billions and billions of baht but i beleive i have understated that as i know many families give more than 1 thousand baht over 12 months what with wedding belssing houses etc etc so it is truly BILLIONS and BILLIONS of baht

So why not educate me as i know nothing about it and you obviously do so instead of answering as you did educate those of us that are less informed instead of telling me to go to a wat and find out myself

If they are helping the poor as you say why not refuse the money the POOR try to give each time to the temple I beleive that would help them much better than to take there money when they can ill afford to give in the first place.

[garro]

To the OP,

I will give you an example of where the money goes. A temple not far from us called Wat Thamkrabok, offers free rehabilitation to drug users and drunks from around the world. Many of these people were almost hopeless cases having already failed the treatment options available in the west. They also treat legions of Thais for free. I know because I'm an ex-patient of the temple. There is this and many more options of the good work done due to the monks and the generosity of the Thai people.

If you go on a meditation retreat in Thailand you will also often find that the food and all your needs are paid for by the Thai people.

Edited June 1, 2008 by garro

[apetley]

Organised religion.

The biggest money making scam on the planet!

Promise the gullible, desperate or just plain stupid what they don't or cannot have and they will pay up.

This part of the forum is about people interested in Buddhism. If you don't like the religion/philosophy why bother posting in this part of the forum? Do you believe that your beliefs somehow are of such importance that they need to be posted here?

So now I have to be a Buddhist or only express positive views to post on this topic?

The OP asked for replies and views. I gave mine on organised religion.

I have an interest in religious affairs but have a negative view about the way the people in power exploit their positions that's all.

If you can't see the corruption that exists in ALL faiths that's your problem.

[ignis]

Can only speak about the Villages around where i live..

They buy Land...

They build Schools...

They build new Temples...

They own and build Apartments...

There always appears to be building/repair work going on all the different 'Wat's around here

[Naam]

Organised religion. The biggest money making scam on the planet! Promise the gullible, desperate or just plain stupid what they don't or cannot have and they will pay up.

i think it's none of our business to render a judgment.

[JetsetBkk]

Ok call me ignorant but after almost 2 years here I still cant get an answer to where all the money goes that all the people give to the monks temples boxes all over the place filled with cash ...

I would also like to know as I got screwed for 400 baht this morning before I'd even woken up.

I took the g/f to a wat - 100 baht in an envelope for her to give the monk + lots of food she cooked + an "orange" basket of goodies.

OK, I didn't mind that - that's a normal event that we do every so often.

But coming back from the wat we passed two monks walking in the street and they flagged us down. "OK, my good deed for the day" I thought.

They didn't know where they wanted to go but we gave them a lift anyway. They banged on the side of the pickup when they wanted to get off. (They banged twice actually, as the first time was a false alarm).

So after they got off the second time I was ready to drive off but they started talking to the g/f. That's when it cost me another 300 baht. First, they wanted a lift to a bus station - sod that, it's 30 km away. Then they wanted money for a bus ticket for each of them - over 1,000 baht. Double sod that! So I got my wallet out and gave them all my small notes - 300 baht.

So what did this teach me?

Don't stop for monks again. Ever.

Sorry, but I hate beggars, especially those in orange.

[apetley]

Organised religion. The biggest money making scam on the planet! Promise the gullible, desperate or just plain stupid what they don't or cannot have and they will pay up.

i think it's none of our business to render a judgment.

Naam, not a judgement, purely my own personal opinion which I am entitled to have on any subject.

I have always asked myself why religions need to own so much land and so many buildings when they espouse so called 'simple' living.

With the ownsership comes wealth and with that wealth comes power and that breeds corruption in religion as in any branch of society.

Why do we see so called holy men being chauferred around in luxury cars? They are like politicians on the gravy train. They enjoy the privilege of their position.

That coupled with a governing body that does little by way of checks and balances it's easy to see how abuses of privilege can take place.

If you look at all the original teachings of the prophets of the great religions be they Lord Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed or whover then they almost all to a man spoke of a simple philosophy without obvious wealth or greed.

Now look at the worlds most powerful religions. Their wealth is immense as is their power over the populations they control.

JetsetBkk you may want to read this this blog before making donatons on the street in the future.

http://www.thai-blogs.com/index.php/2005/0...i_temple?blog=5

I 'm sure that not every Thai temple is run this was but I bet it's much more common than you think.

People in power abusing their positions, right down to the bottom of the heap.

[camerata]

What good do they do with it as i have not seen anything other than building lavish temples so people can continue to give the little money they have.

New temples is probably where a lot of the money goes. The reason for this is that in the Pali Canon the Buddha states that donating to the monastic order in various ways leads to a fortunate rebirth and at the top of the list is "building a monastery." So Buddhists donate to renovating or building a temple for good reasons. But human nature being what it is, many temples are way too ornate and seem to be built for the "glory of the Buddha" in the same way that in other countries churches have been built and artworks commissioned for the "glory of God."

However there are plenty of upcountry temples that are dirt poor and clearly in need of money. My company sponsored a Kathin ceremony at one of them a few years ago and the whole village turned out to welcome us. Usually, the temple collection envelopes I see handed around the office are for specific purposes, such as the mass ordination of monks or the printing of dhamma books for free distribution.

[sabaijai]

Organised religion. The biggest money making scam on the planet! Promise the gullible, desperate or just plain stupid what they don't or cannot have and they will pay up.

i think it's none of our business to render a judgment.

Naam, not a judgement, purely my own personal opinion which I am entitled to have on any subject.

Apetley, please read the Buddhism subforum posting rules. Thanks.

[jamesc2000]

Who doesn't want a big bright temple?

A true Buddhist doesn't want anything!

[garro]

Who doesn't want a big bright temple?

A true Buddhist doesn't want anything!

I don't want to debate who is and who isn't a true Buddhist. Perhaps you feel qualified to answer this, but I don't. My point was that many people in Thailand like 'a big bright temple' so as far as I'm concerned this is up to them. Other people around the world also spend money to build monuments in respect of their beliefs.

Although it is tempting to try and lecture the people of Thailand about how they are getting their religion wrong, I try and avoid this because, as an outsider, this comes across as very condescending. I just try and focus on what I'm doing. Maybe if I ever reach a position where I have attained arahanthood I will be in a better position to lecture or maybe I wouldn't want to lecture people. I am a long way away from this though so better I just look at myself.

[cophen]

Who doesn't want a big bright temple?

A true Buddhist doesn't want anything!

My Ajahn tells me that there's no such thing as a 'true Buddhist'. He say that some are further along the path than others.

[andrisdg]

THINK OF IT AS MEDIEVAL EUROPE BEFORE THE REFORMATION .THE SMART MONEY IS IN SELLING INDULGENCES AND RELICS .HAVING SAID THAT AS A BELIEVE SYSTEM I WILL VOTE BUDDHA BEFORE THE POPE EVERY TIME

[DragonQuest]

Here are 3 obvious reasons were some of the money goes:

#1 I see monks shopping all the time in Pantip plaza.

#2 I see Thai monks Traveling abroad all the time especially in the US.

#3 They have a place to stay for free and they eat for free, now thats what I call a great lifestyle!

[jamesc2000]

Who doesn't want a big bright temple?

A true Buddhist doesn't want anything!

My Ajahn tells me that there's no such thing as a 'true Buddhist'. He say that some are further along the path than others.

Would you like to ask your Ajahn if Buddha was a true Buddist? Or is he just a little further along the path?

[jamesc2000]

Here are 3 obvious reasons were some of the money goes:

#1 I see monks shopping all the time in Pantip plaza.

#2 I see Thai monks Traveling abroad all the time especially in the US.

#3 They have a place to stay for free and they eat for free, now thats what I call a great lifestyle!

#3 They have a place to stay for free and they eat for free, now thats what I call a great lifestyle.

If they have a place to stay for free and eat for free, how does that explain where all the money goes?

Unless you mean it all goes to the flight tickets?

If since you call it such a great lifestyle, why don't you join?

[garro]

Who doesn't want a big bright temple?

A true Buddhist doesn't want anything!

My Ajahn tells me that there's no such thing as a 'true Buddhist'. He say that some are further along the path than others.

Would you like to ask your Ajahn if Buddha was a true Buddist? Or is he just a little further along the path?

I doubt very much that the Buddha would consider himself a 'Buddhist', but I'm sure he believed himself to be further along the path or else why would he bother teaching anybody. I suspect that the Buddha didn't see himself as being anything anymore. Of course I could be wrong.

Edited June 8, 2008 by garro

[Virin]

Garro, great posts , thanks.

[jamesc2000]

I heard a story about a monk that found a small island in the north of Scotland suitable to build a retreat centre.

This moss covered rock is not valued more than 6 million pounds but when the monk asked the owner, a wily old Scotsman how much for the island he was quoted 13 million pounds.

The monk bought the island and when someone asked him how come he paid so much, the monk replied, I am a monk not a businessman!

I guess commercial or monetary value has a different value when one is not attached.

I love the story of Ajahn Brahm going into the room of his teacher Ajahn Chah. Ajahn Chah who is a famous monk and many people always giving him all kinds of gifts.

Ajahn Brahm was curious to see what kind of possessions Ajahn Chah kept and what did he find?

All he had was a mattress for a bed and his spare robe on a washing line. And absolutely nothing else.

If non attachment to material possession is central to Buddhism then money and possession has a different meaning to a Buddhist monk than to you and me.

We cannot judge how much money a temple has with our own value system.

But if thats what you enjoy doing and insinuating temples are just about money then feel free to think as you like!

[jamesc2000]

I doubt very much that the Buddha would consider himself a 'Buddhist', but I'm sure he believed himself to be further along the path or else why would he bother teaching anybody. I suspect that the Buddha didn't see himself as being anything anymore. Of course I could be wrong.

"I suspect that the Buddha didn't see himself as being anything anymore."

"I'm sure he believed himself to be further along the path."

"I doubt very much that the Buddha would consider himself a 'Buddhist'"

So you suspect that the Buddha didn't see himself as being anything anymore,

but you are sure he believed himself to be further along the path

but you doubt very much that the Buddha would consider himself a 'Buddhist'

and you feel you could be wrong?

Very good post indeed!

Edited June 8, 2008 by jamesc2000

[garro]

I doubt very much that the Buddha would consider himself a 'Buddhist', but I'm sure he believed himself to be further along the path or else why would he bother teaching anybody. I suspect that the Buddha didn't see himself as being anything anymore. Of course I could be wrong.

"I suspect that the Buddha didn't see himself as being anything anymore."

"I'm sure he believed himself to be further along the path."

"I doubt very much that the Buddha would consider himself a 'Buddhist'"

So you suspect that the Buddha didn't see himself as being anything anymore,

but you are sure he believed himself to be further along the path

but you doubt very much that the Buddha would consider himself a 'Buddhist'

and you feel you could be wrong?

Very good post indeed!

Yes there is very little certainty in the world, and so I believe it's important to not be too attached to things - especially semantics. I can feel sure about things, but that doesn't mean that I am right.

If the Buddha saw himself as a 'Buddhist' then I have seriously mistaken his teachings.

Edited June 8, 2008 by garro

[Naam]

Who doesn't want a big bright temple?

A true Buddhist doesn't want anything!

does that mean i can count all true Buddhists on this planet using the fingers of my left hand?

[jamesc2000]

If the Buddha saw himself as a 'Buddhist' then I have seriously mistaken his teachings.

Maybe you are right.

[cophen]

Who doesn't want a big bright temple?

A true Buddhist doesn't want anything!

My Ajahn tells me that there's no such thing as a 'true Buddhist'. He say that some are further along the path than others.

Would you like to ask your Ajahn if Buddha was a true Buddist? Or is he just a little further along the path?

Presumably he (the Buddha) has found the end of the path and thus needs to travel no further.

Edited June 8, 2008 by cophen

[jamesc2000]

I have been reading the posts here and people make statements with such certainty!

“I'm sure he believed himself to be . . .”

“My Ajahn tells me that there's no such thing as . . .”

But when I enquire a little bit more to find out what the statement really means I suddenly get,

“there is very little certainty in the world . .”

“Presumably . . .”

“I suspect that . . .”

“I could be wrong.”

So is Buddhism about the absolute truth and absolute certainty or is it wishy-washy, maybe it could be this or it could be that, I suspect it could be this and I doubt it is that?

People are free to cast aspersions like -

“Organised religion.

The biggest money making scam on the planet!

Promise the gullible, desperate or just plain stupid what they don't or cannot have and they will pay up.”

“I have asked multiple thais as to where the cash goes and whats done with it and unbeleivable NO ONE KNOWS

And if Monks arn't supposed to touch money then who counts all that money in the temples and the donation boxes

Please enlighten me”

I cannot enlighten you but I would just like say a few things. Maybe some people will contradict me for the sake of it but they are most welcome to do that!

Not every policemen is an honest policeman. But this doesn’t mean that every policeman is a dishonest policeman.

Not every monk that wears the robe has a heart full of compassion and love or a mind full of wisdom.

Does that mean all monks just want to fleece you and temples have no other objective but to enrich themselves?

Will no one speak up and say the monks I know are honest men looking for the truth and are not interested in making money?

I don’t know any monks but I have heard Ajahn Brahm on the internet and he didn’t sound like he is in it for the money!

I like Buddhism because I keep hearing that Buddha was born a Prince with all the material pleasures he wanted and he gave it all up to be a simple wondering monk with no material possession except for 2 robes, I assume he had a spare on wash days and a bowl and maybe some chanting beads.

Whether monks are just fleecing people or not I leave that to your opinion, its not for me to convince you one way or another, but I do know with absolute certainty that Buddhism is all about not being attached to material things!