Would You Accept This Offer?

[mizzi39]

I was asked by my director (boss) the other day if I would be willing to teach the director at the local labor office (the one who authorized my WP) English a few hours a week at a rate of 350 baht an hour. My director said that she could rearrange my schedule to make it convenient for me. I would probably be willing to volunteer my time rather than receive payment, but this women at the labor office insists on compensating me.

I am a contracted employee and not wanting to sound paranoid, but I do not want to cross any (legal) boundaries either. i told my director that i would think about it. What would you do?

[howmuch]

Look mate, youv'e hit the jackpot. I don't think there trying to catch you out or anything. It sounds to me like they like (oh repetition!) you and just figure you can help out the official.

go for it, believe me it goes along way here. Visa problems will be the thing of the past.

(Too all the teacher haters, sorry if i mispelled - sue me...)

Edited June 13, 2008 by howmuch

[jasreeve17]

I wouldn't do it.

It's a crap rate and you'd be breaking the law.

The big factor would be if you pissed this person off, which is highly possible, then you'd be fuked. Very nicely offer an appropriate excuse to your boss (Don't say 'I don't want to!').

[howmuch]

Its a crap rate, but play it by ear, im married to a Thai, been here 4 years teaching, its not in there interest to set you up.

Edited June 13, 2008 by howmuch

[PhilHarries]

Dodgy one for sure. Your director is willing to arrange you schedule to make it convenient for you? You have to do the five finger exercise "what's - in - it - for - her?".

jasreeve17 is right the rate is crap which brings us back to the five fingered exercise and who is taking advantage of who and why? Your director provides cheap English tuition in return for certain considerations. Those considerations may extend to your advantage but, again as said before, you are now in a cleft stick, one false move and it's aus viederzeihn pet (apologies to any Germans reading this for my cr@p spelling).

Personally I'd try and get out of it but that may also not be the best move for you future.

No, I don't envy you one bit.

[Briggsy]

Do it but get the director to arrange it during your normal working hours.

Ask for more money. They might be expecting you to negotiate.

[2008bangkok]

Got to agree with howmuch here.... these things are the way to open doors in Thailand you scratch there back they wil scratch yours..golden oppurtunity jump in

[mizzi39]

I wouldn't do it.

It's a crap rate and you'd be breaking the law.

The big factor would be if you pissed this person off, which is highly possible, then you'd be fuked. Very nicely offer an appropriate excuse to your boss (Don't say 'I don't want to!').

Yes I agree that it is a crap rate, however not many people are willing to pay much more for private tutoring where I live in the sticks since not many can afford to! I am very confident that this is not some kind of a set up since I just got my 1 year extension last week and my 1 year stamp in my WP plus I have a very good relationship with my boss who was educated in America and who is really very kind hearted and supportive. What you stated about pissing this person off even unintentionally is what concerns me the most, yet i am not in the habit of pissing people off even unintentionally. Like I stated, I would not mind volunteering a few hours a week especially if the time could be worked around my schedule and think that this could be a good contact, but i really do not want to be breaking any law since i value being legal. Thanks for the advice.

Edited June 13, 2008 by mizzi39

[way2muchcoffee]

I say go for it. To echo others here, these are my reasons why:

1) The rate isn't so bad for tutoring upcountry. It'll bring in a little extra cash.

2) You have the opportunity to make a very useful contact. You never know when a highly placed Thai friend or acquaintance will be helpful.

3) This could lead to other private tutoring work if you are interested in securing more hours.

4) You will be doing your boss a favor. This is a very good thing to do in a society that operates primarily under a patronage system.

5) If you can work it out so that the lessons occur during your regular hours then it is a win-win situation for the extra cash.

I wouldn't worry about making an enemy. If you do a good job and show up on time there is nothing to worry about.

Edited June 13, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[jasreeve17]

Briggsy & PhilHarries both make good points, and are good experienced posters. The few that suggest it's the Thai way to get ahead are misleading you. It's the Thai way for Thais to get ahead - your not Thai.

I'd try to get out of it as tactfully as possible. Or, do it in work time after receiving an invitation letter (if possible...).

As far as pissing people off goes; even if all parties are lovely people with the best intentions it happens all too regularly. The single biggest problem for all teachers is workplace dynamics. There is always a lot of politics going on which you will have no way of understanding...

[way2muchcoffee]

Briggsy & PhilHarries both make good points, and are good experienced posters. The few that suggest it's the Thai way to get ahead are misleading you. It's the Thai way for Thais to get ahead - your not Thai.

I respectfully disagree. In the six years I've been teaching in Thailand I've made numerous Thai contacts through private tutoring. These contacts have led to more and more work with increasingly higher prestige and pay. Occasionally I'll be asked to do an all expenses paid weekend seminar, which affords the opportunity for even further contact development. One or two of these contacts have even crossed over into becoming friends, and these people have been especially helpful in numerous ways. The private tutoring circuit is all about reputation and word of mouth. Any contacts you can make are useful.

When I started private tutoring 6 years ago I was earning only 400 bt/hr on average. Now I am able to charge a minimum of 1000/hr. This is largely due to word of mouth referrals. These referrals, of course, came from contacts I made earlier. As another example, a friend of mine has niched himself as an IGCSE/IB Chemistry tutor and is affiliated with one of the better British Curriculum schools in BKK. He now has an office at the school, is given a room to teach students in after regular class hours, and commands 1500 bt/hr. He collects no money from the school itself as it all comes from the parents. In fact, it was the parents who convinced the headmaster to provide the room and office to make the tutoring more convenient.

Edited June 13, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[jasreeve17]

Briggsy & PhilHarries both make good points, and are good experienced posters. The few that suggest it's the Thai way to get ahead are misleading you. It's the Thai way for Thais to get ahead - your not Thai.

I respectfully disagree. In the six years I've been teaching in Thailand I've made numerous Thai contacts through private tutoring. These contacts have led to more and more work with increasingly higher prestige and pay. One or two of these contacts have even crossed over into becoming friends, and these people have been especially helpful in numerous ways. The private tutoring circuit is all about reputation and word of mouth.

When I started private tutoring 6 years ago I was earning only 400 bt/hr on average. Now I am able to charge a minimum of 1000/hr. This is largely due to word of mouth referrals. These referrals, of course, came from contacts I made earlier.

As another example, a friend of mine has niched himself as an IGCSE/IB Chemistry tutor and is affiliated with one of the better British Curriculum schools in BKK. He now has an office at the school, is given a room to teach students in after regular class hours, and commands 1500 bt/hr. He collects no money from the school itself as it all comes from the parents. It was the parents who convinced the headmaster to provide the room to make the tutoring more convenient.

I agree with you regarding the private tutoring, but that's not my point.

My thoughts were that when a Thai does a favour for a Thai, and you're included, then it's not for your benefit. Also, the way that Thais do business with each other is an area that we will never be allowed into.

[way2muchcoffee]

My thoughts were that when a Thai does a favour for a Thai, and you're included, then it's not for your benefit. Also, the way that Thais do business with each other is an area that we will never be allowed into.

Ok then. We agree and can chalk it up to an internet misunderstanding.

[jasreeve17]

My thoughts were that when a Thai does a favour for a Thai, and you're included, then it's not for your benefit. Also, the way that Thais do business with each other is an area that we will never be allowed into.

Ok then. We agree and can chalk it up to an internet misunderstanding.

Thank you Sir, respectfully.

[mizzi39]

Thanks for the replies. I truly appreciate all of your opinions and found them to be constructive. A special thanks to way2muchcoffee and jasreeve17. I will ponder both of your opinions since I found them to be on opposite poles, yet you both made some very good points. i am not sure that I agree with everything stated and will go with my gut in the end. Everyone who lives in this country can appreciate the value of making contacts especially contacts that can be of extreme benefit, but at the same time no one wants to get burnt in the process so I will take some time and way the pros vs. cons. Thanks again!

[PeaceBlondie]

This is weird. On two other ThaiVisa forums (Chiang Mai, and Visas...Work Permits), we are discussing volunteer work where you do not have a WP for such work. Here you have the local Chief of the Labour Ministry willing to pay a fairly high wage for private English lessons. How bizarre.

Surely, when you are helping one Thai to help another Thai, you are a third class non-citizen. But that happens every day. Usually you come out third, but not last.

[cluezo]

This is weird. On two other ThaiVisa forums (Chiang Mai, and Visas...Work Permits), we are discussing volunteer work where you do not have a WP for such work. Here you have the local Chief of the Labour Ministry willing to pay a fairly high wage for private English lessons. How bizarre.

Surely, when you are helping one Thai to help another Thai, you are a third class non-citizen. But that happens every day. Usually you come out third, but not last.

I taught four Thai Immigration Police from my local Immigration office up north for pay for three years. I charged a very modest fee. I got first class treatment everytime I went to Immigration. In fact, I completely forgot about my 90 day notification one time - I was 47 days over due! I went in. just shrugged my shoulders when they looked at me like I was a retard then they laughged and updated me. Just like that - didn't cost me a single bhat. Take the job, OP!

[innovator]

Go for it. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

CYA: Get a letter of invitation from the Labor Department and ask for that letter to be inserted as a clause inside your current Work Permit.

This way, even if something bad happened in the relationship or if they were trying to screw you, it wouldn't matter much because you could show them the addendum to your work permit.

Gain: Contacts, Power People, Money, referrals, etc....

No need to be paranoid...If they were trying to set you up, then both your current work place and the Labor rep would be out of a good teacher.

So, they have no motive to do such a stupid thing that would only harm themselves.

Con: If there was a problem, then you could go find another job. There are tons of jobs out there now and am sure that you could be up and running again, even if that is not a pleasant experience.

Edited June 17, 2008 by innovator

[brewsterbudgen]

Briggsy & PhilHarries both make good points, and are good experienced posters. The few that suggest it's the Thai way to get ahead are misleading you. It's the Thai way for Thais to get ahead - your not Thai.

I respectfully disagree. In the six years I've been teaching in Thailand I've made numerous Thai contacts through private tutoring. These contacts have led to more and more work with increasingly higher prestige and pay. Occasionally I'll be asked to do an all expenses paid weekend seminar, which affords the opportunity for even further contact development. One or two of these contacts have even crossed over into becoming friends, and these people have been especially helpful in numerous ways. The private tutoring circuit is all about reputation and word of mouth. Any contacts you can make are useful.

When I started private tutoring 6 years ago I was earning only 400 bt/hr on average. Now I am able to charge a minimum of 1000/hr. This is largely due to word of mouth referrals. These referrals, of course, came from contacts I made earlier. As another example, a friend of mine has niched himself as an IGCSE/IB Chemistry tutor and is affiliated with one of the better British Curriculum schools in BKK. He now has an office at the school, is given a room to teach students in after regular class hours, and commands 1500 bt/hr. He collects no money from the school itself as it all comes from the parents. In fact, it was the parents who convinced the headmaster to provide the room and office to make the tutoring more convenient.

Do you have a WP from your regular job and teach privately on the side? Or is it possible to teach privately, fulltime, without being "employed"?

[PeaceBlondie]

Do you have a WP from your regular job and teach privately on the side? Or is it possible to teach privately, fulltime, without being "employed"?

Nearly all private tutoring is illegal, even for full-time teachers who have a proper work permit at their school that is listed on the WP. I know of no way to tutor privately, legally. But then, I am often mistaken, and I have poor hand coordination.

[dotcom]

Do it but get the director to arrange it during your normal working hours.

Ask for more money. They might be expecting you to negotiate.

Agree with the first part. Take the salary they are offering. Might be an introduction to better paying tutoring. 3 4 5 students in one session = 1500 baht per hour.

[Jimjim]

Why are you giving advice teachers when you seem to call them "sad" in another thread if I remember correctly?

[mijan24]

I wouldn't do it.

It's a crap rate and you'd be breaking the law.

The big factor would be if you pissed this person off, which is highly possible, then you'd be fuked. Very nicely offer an appropriate excuse to your boss (Don't say 'I don't want to!').

Yes I agree that it is a crap rate, however not many people are willing to pay much more for private tutoring where I live in the sticks since not many can afford to! I am very confident that this is not some kind of a set up since I just got my 1 year extension last week and my 1 year stamp in my WP plus I have a very good relationship with my boss who was educated in America and who is really very kind hearted and supportive. What you stated about pissing this person off even unintentionally is what concerns me the most, yet i am not in the habit of pissing people off even unintentionally. Like I stated, I would not mind volunteering a few hours a week especially if the time could be worked around my schedule and think that this could be a good contact, but i really do not want to be breaking any law since i value being legal. Thanks for the advice.

Why not do it and if the money is not a concern arrange for the director to hold the money for a small award (maybe a nice book) for a student at the school?

[Scott]

If I were you, I'd go for it and I wouldn't worry too much about the 'legalities'. There is a rather large informal economy here in Thailand and unless you were specifically targeted by someone there is little chance of anything being done. Even then, I doubt that anything would be done.

Secondly, within the Thai cultural system you will be both helping your boss and someone of higher rank (probably) than him. This is good for all concerned. I wouldn't negogiate about the price, take what is offered.

Finally, a lot of adult students don't really stay with learning unless they have a very specific motive to do so. I say that with a little bit of caution as I have an adult class that I took on 5 years ago because I figured after about 3-6 months they would quit--they really don't need to learn English--but they have continued. In that case though, we have become very close and they are great too me, so it's now based more on a sort of friendship than anything else.

If this person really likes you and continues it will probably be mutual otherwise, after a time, they will be cancelling for this or that and pretty soon it will just peter out.

Best of luck.