Maid Service- Issue

[Adelita]

Hello,

I have recently hired a maid through a maid service,

and had given the maid over 12,000 baht to purchase things for me.

She has kept over half of the money for her own personal use, thinking that I lent it to her,

and had promised to return it today.

Obviously today she has not returned it,

and in talking with the agency,

the owner has said that the issue is between me and the maid (who can speak very little English).

Whose responsibility is it to see that the money is returned?

I would think that an agency exists in order to resolve issues between maid and customer?

[bonobo]

The bottom line is that it is between you and the maid. However, the maid service is also there for a reason, and part of that is as an interface. Especially if there is a language problem, they should step in and explain things to her.

I think this falls beyond the borders of them oweing you the money, they should still help resolve the situation.

[longball53098]

I would agree with the owner of the service. If you cannot speak Thai and you "think" the maid understood you were wrong.

I would have brought in someone to explain to the "maid" before I handed over the cash exactly what the money was to be used for and to come back with receipts and the exact change after the shopping trip.

I had two ladies clean my place a few years ago and we had a similar arrangement to purchase supplies for cleaning and such.

In your case maybe you should have made the arrangement with the owner of the agency not directly with the maid.

Good luck

[way2muchcoffee]

How could any maid legitimately think you would loan her 6,000 bt? This just doesn't make sense. She gets a salary already. If there was any kind of loan one would think that would be and extraordinary circumstance and would have been discussed explicitly. Whereas a maid given money to make household purchases in conjunction with her duties would be the completely expected.

I completely disagree with longball. The maid is simply trying to get over on her new employer. There was no loan. There was no implied loan. She stole the money - pure and simple. She may intend to pay it back, but that in no way excuses the theft. I would have her work until the debt is repaid, then terminate the employment and find a new maid from a different company.

Edited June 16, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[Adelita]

I spoke with the agent today, and she and the maid know that the money is due to be returned,

and the agent said that she will keep asking the maid to return it

(we had spoken in May, and the maid promised to have the money today)

As the maid does not have the money now, and I would like to terminate service with the maid and this agency,

must I keep this issue open now?

The agent also has 6 service days remaining that have not been used,

but said that according to her memory (she has no records), all 11 sessions were used,

and will not be reimbursed.

In total, close to 10,000 baht is due, 6400 that the maid used, and 3000 for the unused sessions

not a huge amount, but not so great in principle and business.

How can I close this issue quickly and clearly?

Edited June 16, 2008 by Adelita

[cluezo]

Some major red flags here. How long have you done business with this agency? Do you know anyone else who deals with them? How long have you dealt with this maid? How could possible put that kind of money in someone's hand (maid, farang - anybody) without knowing for sure there would no problem??? This might turn out to a "lesson learned" situation/

[cluezo]

I spoke with the agent today, and she and the maid know that the money is due to be returned,

and the agent said that she will keep asking the maid to return it

(we had spoken in May, and the maid promised to have the money today)

As the maid does not have the money now, and I would like to terminate service with the maid and this agency,

must I keep this issue open now?

The agent also has 6 service days remaining that have not been used,

but said that according to her memory (she has no records), all 11 sessions were used,

and will not be reimbursed.

In total, close to 10,000 baht is due, 6400 that the maid used, and 3000 for the unused sessions

not a huge amount, but not so great in principle and business.

How can I close this issue quickly and clearly?

Call the cops.

[Adelita]

The maid was hired 3 months ago,

she was given money over several occasions,

and some of it was unaccounted for,

said that she had used it,

to return it later.

The agent seemed responsible,

she had an ad posted in BK magazine,

and I had hired through her once before

(a different maid, with no problem)

[longball53098]

Just curious about this----------was there some sort of contract signed? Or all on a verbal agreement and a Wai?

I think the money is history from the maid---------she may just do a disappearing act before you see any money.

[Adelita]

No contract, with maid or the service,

only dealt with the agent by phone,

initial payment for service was by bank transfer.

I usually leave cash for maids,

and have never had any problem before this one.

Overall, Thai maids seem to be very honest and diligent with their work,

just this one a bit of a stray!

Will not deal with this one or the agency again,

but just need to close the issue!

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Our maid frequently buys things, mostly food items, for us. She speaks little english and I speak even less Thai, the wife does much better than me. What we have done is keep a jar with money in it for any expenditures she makes. We have never ask her to account for it and doubt seriously that she would use it for herself, if she did she would pay it back. Every Monday we put between 500 and 1,000 baht in the jar. Depending on how much she used the week before.

This works very well for us and for her, have been doing it for a year now with no problem. She is very trustworthy, when she does the laundry she always puts the money from my pants on my nite stand. Anyhow I think you have to show a little trust to develop a good working relationship. Start out small, a few hundred baht and you can build from there.

[roygsd]

No contract, with maid or the service,

only dealt with the agent by phone,

initial payment for service was by bank transfer.

I usually leave cash for maids,

and have never had any problem before this one.

Overall, Thai maids seem to be very honest and diligent with their work,

just this one a bit of a stray!

Will not deal with this one or the agency again,

but just need to close the issue!

Hi

Send a letter to the Agency advising them that you are cancelling your contract with the maid and themselves and state your reasons for doing so.

Before doing so I would advise you to change all the locks in the house/apartment just incase keys have been copied over the past 3 months.

Forget trying to recover any money its gone end of story.

Dont jump out of the fat into the fire, better to leave the home dusty for a while, I am sure you can handle a hoover and duster if necessary before a reliable replacement can be found.

I have heard several horror stories from thai's regarding employing staff from Myanmar so I would proceed very carefully

before employing anyone.

Perhaps someone on this site can recommend someone they have employed,sometimes people returning home advertise for a new employer for thier maids/staff, worth asking on a separate thread I think.

Roy gsd

[bratpack]

I think you picked a bad one and maybe you didnt have that line of employee and employer.Did you get friendly with her too quick and she has taken advantage.She thought she could get away with it,why??????

[NanLaew]

No contract, with maid or the service,

Hi

Send a letter to the Agency advising them that you are cancelling your contract with the maid and themselves

blah, blah, blah...

Good advice.

Next?

[NanLaew]

It's a pity you had a good maid first and got lulled into trusting this charlatan. You got taken advantage of for sure but I don't think chasing this any further with this maid and agency is going to yield anything. Good maids are scarcer than hens teeth so whatever arrangement you set up with the next maid, make sure it's clearly understood. Handing over gobs of money without asking for receipts isn't smart. Plenty sound advice in other posts as well. Good luck finding a decent one soon.

[malcolminthemiddle]

No contract, with maid or the service,

Hi

Send a letter to the Agency advising them that you are cancelling your contract with the maid and themselves

blah, blah, blah...

Good advice.

Next?

While there may not be a written Contract, since the Agent has provided a service and the Customer has paid for that service there is an implied Contract between the parties. Either party may terminate this agreement immediately without notice or compensation at any time for any reason because there is no written Contract to say otherwise.

[cluezo]

Just can't understand putting that kind of money into the hands of a virtual stranger who had a past with shortchanging you. I gotta a bridge to sell, interested??

[Newbee]

You paid the agent to find you a maid.

The maid was found, but turned out to be unreliable.

1. Fire the maid. It's good that you discovered her "borrowing habbits" early enough

2. Think how to return the money. If I were in your shoes, I would keep her working for as long as it would take to pay the money off. Don't show her now that she is to be fired. Tell this to her on the last day.

3. Tell the agent to find you a new maid at no fees.

This way you will have a new maid,your money will be paid off, the maid will not have to return cash (which she doesn't have), the agent will not have to compensate for the maid's debts.

[cluezo]

Leave it alone, already! You burn, you learn....

[dotcom]

Tell the agency, in writing, that you are printing up flyers, to be posted at every branch of Viilla Market, warning expats to stay well clear of their agency & why.

I think you'll be amazed at how fast the agency will hand over your money.

Then find a new agency.

[roygsd]

No contract, with maid or the service,

Hi

Send a letter to the Agency advising them that you are cancelling your contract with the maid and themselves

blah, blah, blah...

Good advice.

Next?

there would have been a contract be it written verbal or implied other wise the agency could not charge a fee

same goes for the maid, hours, salary, holidays etc etc these details form the basis of a contract between the employer and maid, certainly the employer and the maid had an agreement/contract regarding return of the missing money which was not adhered to,

next?

roy gsd

[roygsd]

No contract, with maid or the service,

Hi

Send a letter to the Agency advising them that you are cancelling your contract with the maid and themselves

blah, blah, blah...

Good advice.

Next?

While there may not be a written Contract, since the Agent has provided a service and the Customer has paid for that service there is an implied Contract between the parties. Either party may terminate this agreement immediately without notice or compensation at any time for any reason because there is no written Contract to say otherwise.

Thank you for your input

roy gsd

[Adelita]

So, in speaking with the maid and agent again,

the maid says she has no work, and cannot pay it back now,

and the agent says it is the responsibility of the customer to deal with the maid and money.

I want to terminate with this maid and agency,

wouldn't it be the responsibility of the agent to pay back the outstanding,

even that which the maid took, 6400 baht,

and the 3000 baht for sessions not used?

Again, 10000 baht is not a large amount in this case,

but in closing this, and protecting anyone else who may come into contact with this maid or agency,

how can I best resolve this?

Does it make sense to have a lawyer who can resolve this quickly?

[Newbee]

So, in speaking with the maid and agent again,

the maid says she has no work, and cannot pay it back now,

she doesn't have cash - let her make in kind payment - work for you until she covers 6400.

and the agent says it is the responsibility of the customer to deal with the maid and money.

Actually, the agent may be right, because this case does not involve direct steeling, but rather misunderstanding

I want to terminate with this maid and agency,

Terminate with the maid.

Don't terminate with the agent

you paid her the commissions

make her to find you a replacement

wouldn't it be the responsibility of the agent to pay back the outstanding,

even that which the maid took, 6400 baht,

no

and the 3000 baht for sessions not used?

Again, 10000 baht is not a large amount in this case,

but in closing this, and protecting anyone else who may come into contact with this maid or agency,

Tell the agent to find somebody to work for the sessions not used (I assume the money for the sessions was given to the agent. if the money was given to the maid - see above.

how can I best resolve this?

Does it make sense to have a lawyer who can resolve this quickly?

Ya, get a lawyer and waste another 10000 baht....

You don'teven have a written contract to go to court with... don't forget, TIT.

[Adelita]

So now 3 months later... the agent has pointed to the maid, and the maid has not returned the money. Apparently, the maid went home to the upcountry because she has no work here (!!??)

Further, the agent owes over half of the remaining sessions that I had purchased,

(the maid worked 5 times over a total of 3 weeks)

which she claims from her memory that all 11 had been used, even though she keeps no records.

The maid and agent are both MIA right now.

How can I at least protect others from this agent and maid??

[JimmyTheMook]

What was the initial 12,000 baht for anyway ?

[sbk]

Trollish and useless responses have been deleted. Further such posts will result in formal moderation action. May I suggest that if you don't have pertinent and useful information to offer to not post drivel.

[chatette]

Word of mouth is the way to warn others of the agency ripoff, which is clearly separate from the maid fleeing with what's akin to a month's salary.

As a veteran of hiring help in Thailand, a few tips. If hiring from an agency, always sign a contract and have everything in writing and clearly understood. If there is a language issue, take someone with you to the meeting who can translate clearly. Never hand over money for a service without the transaction written up.

On maids: always try out a helper for a few sessions on an hourly rate before formally hiring from an agency or privately. There is always the risk that the person may jump to a fulltime offer in the interim but that is surely better than landing someone who is incompetent and/or dishonest.

Get a photocopy of the person's ID card, contact details and home address (not necessarily household registration as that may be elsewhere) from the outset, even for an hourly arrangement, and have it translated if you don't read Thai. When you formally hire someone, go to the person's house -- drop them there for example -- so you know where they are located and they know you know.

Never hand over large sums of money and run a daily petty cash book for your helper to fill in and insist on receipts for purchases. Even if you don't read Thai, you can read numbers and they must tally.

Never let up on the vigilance or you will be presenting an opportunity for your helper to get into trouble akin to leaving a stuffed wallet on the seat of a car with open windows in a crowded street.

I have only hired one `rogue' over many years in Bangkok and that was a decade ago from a Villa ad and I didn't insist on a try out period first. She touched the wallet for small amounts that would have been much larger if it had not been that the petty cash book enabled me to identify the small ripoffs (overstating volumes to increase the booked price for fresh market purchases).

My various helpers before and since have complied unquestioningly and happily with the system, which also protects them from allegations of cheating.

Good luck.

[Adelita]

Again, I have had maids here before, with no problem.

I hired this one for a brief time when my primary maid was away.

I believe that this one was not obedient, perhaps because I am a young student here.

I ask the question now only because this agent still posts her ad around the city, still see in in BK Magazine under "clean like magic!"

I only now want to alert whoever may come into contact with her or this maid.

Thanks again for your help.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Adelita