Gun

[Bagwan]

From one of those folks who live in the country who put men in space, on the moon ( several times) and placed 2 rovers on Mars.

When I was in Huntsville, Alabama where a lot of NASA research is carried out, I was told by a leading citizen, apparently in all seriousness, that the US in honesty could not claim too much credit for going to the Moon. The Europeans got us up there, all we did was supply the money and a flight crew, I was told. Huntsville is up to its armpits in ex-pats who are attracted by sufficient funding for projects and, maybe, a different lifestyle. Was Wernher von Braun, shamefully smuggled out of Germany by the US, an American citizen?

Similar to the Manhattan Project? Fermi, Bohr, Szilard, Wigner, Peierls, Frisch, Bloch, Frank, Chadwick, Segre, Fuchs and Teller.

Europeans all.

I come from a country that gave the world tarmacadam roads, railways, aircraft carriers (with armoured decks, take note), penicillin, tanks, Magna Carta, Soccer, a common language, the jet engine and hovercraft.

Back on topic. Few would argue that the US is not governed by big business. The pro gun lobby have unlimited funds to advance their cause. Somewhat similar to the good people of Isan, John Doe's receptiveness to being brainwashed is apparent. Those who want to take firearms out of the crime equation are hogtied. I harbour not a little sympathy for those who want to protect themselves by owning a weapon but a small voice in my brain tells me I am wrong to do so.

[rixalex]

Outside of the 19th century Wild West there is good reason for "anti gun babble" as witnessed by the mass shootings in USA, UK and elsewhere even with some kind of gun control.............. something we should all be considerate of

yadda yadda yadda.

Rampages in Japan with a Knife ring a bell ?

Guns are harder to outrun wouldn't you say?

[rixalex]

hi,i have been following this thread and i have to chip in.

my wife and i,when we finish building will be living ,remote from our nearest village.

We are doing this because we dont want ,barking dogs ,radios ,motorbikes at all hours and general village noise.

we like quiet.

However this comes with a lack of neighbour type security.

if anything .should happen we could scream all night and noone will hear us.

So what should we reach for if we hear a motorbike or car pull in,late at night .

The phone?

The tea pot?

Whilst i hope i would never have to use any weapon,in self defence of my family ,i will sleep a lot better knowing i have some means of defence.

Strange priorities.

You have put having a bit of peace and quiet ahead of your family's safety? Is it worth it?

You think you'll sleep a lot better with a gun by your side? Just how much better i wonder? The thought of waking up in the middle of the night in your PJs to fight for your life and that of your family in a gun shoot out with the local outlaws doesn't sound that conducive to a good night's sleep to me.

Alternatively, you could just choose to live somewhere safer.. perhaps those barking dogs, radios and motorbikes aren't so bad after all.

Edited July 2, 2008 by rixalex

[chuckd]

Outside of the 19th century Wild West there is good reason for "anti gun babble" as witnessed by the mass shootings in USA, UK and elsewhere even with some kind of gun control.............. something we should all be considerate of

yadda yadda yadda.

Rampages in Japan with a Knife ring a bell ?

Guns are harder to outrun wouldn't you say?

I am nearing my 71st birthday. I could just as likely outrun a bullet as I could outrun some young Thai thug with a knife.

Having acknowledged my lack of foot speed, I always thought it better to take a gun to a knife fight anyway.

My tongue is still firmly within the parameters of my cheek.

[rixalex]

Outside of the 19th century Wild West there is good reason for "anti gun babble" as witnessed by the mass shootings in USA, UK and elsewhere even with some kind of gun control.............. something we should all be considerate of

yadda yadda yadda.

Rampages in Japan with a Knife ring a bell ?

Guns are harder to outrun wouldn't you say?

I am nearing my 71st birthday. I could just as likely outrun a bullet as I could outrun some young Thai thug with a knife.

Having acknowledged my lack of foot speed, I always thought it better to take a gun to a knife fight anyway.

My tongue is still firmly within the parameters of my cheek.

You might be surprised at the speed of electric wheelchairs these days. Suggest a visit to your local elderly supplies store is overdue my friend...

P.S. Even without assistance, i bet at 71 you could still outrun your average young Thai thug! After all, when have you ever seen one exercise? They even take the moped to visit their next-door neighbour!

[wolfmanjack]

Outside of the 19th century Wild West there is good reason for "anti gun babble" as witnessed by the mass shootings in USA, UK and elsewhere even with some kind of gun control.............. something we should all be considerate of

yadda yadda yadda.

Rampages in Japan with a Knife ring a bell ?

Guns are harder to outrun wouldn't you say?

i can kill a lot more people with a machete on a crowded Tokyo street than you can with a 9mm. hel_l a straight edged razor as well.

[wolfmanjack]

Just a little common sense for u guys. Ask a burglar which residence he would would rather enter. One where he knows the people own a gun or one where he knows they do not. I would be willing to bet he will pick the one where he knows they do not own a gun 100 times out of 100 unless he knows the people are not home and wants to steal the gun.

Not to mention that it is like insurance. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

[rixalex]

Outside of the 19th century Wild West there is good reason for "anti gun babble" as witnessed by the mass shootings in USA, UK and elsewhere even with some kind of gun control.............. something we should all be considerate of

yadda yadda yadda.

Rampages in Japan with a Knife ring a bell ?

Guns are harder to outrun wouldn't you say?

i can kill a lot more people with a machete on a crowded Tokyo street than you can with a 9mm. hel_l a straight edged razor as well.

What a daft argument.

[garro]

Just a little common sense for u guys. Ask a burglar which residence he would would rather enter. One where he knows the people own a gun or one where he knows they do not. I would be willing to bet he will pick the one where he knows they do not own a gun 100 times out of 100 unless he knows the people are not home and wants to steal the gun.

Not to mention that it is like insurance. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Here is some common sense for you, cowboy.

Why does old farang have a gun? He must have many valuables.

Let's go and rob him, and we will take our guns.

If the daft farang as much as twitches we should shot him.

Edited July 2, 2008 by garro

[ClaytonSeymour]

Just a little common sense for u guys. Ask a burglar which residence he would would rather enter. One where he knows the people own a gun or one where he knows they do not. I would be willing to bet he will pick the one where he knows they do not own a gun 100 times out of 100 unless he knows the people are not home and wants to steal the gun.

Not to mention that it is like insurance. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Here is some common sense for you, cowboy.

Why does old farang have a gun? He must have many valuables.

Let's go and rob him, and we will take our guns.

If the daft farang as much as twitches we should shot him.

Why don't you tear your doors down? Leave your car unlocked every night? Any crime prevention expert in the world will tell you that thieves like easy targets, the more security measures you have in place the better.

As I've already said, when/if I eventually move out to Thailand permanently, an electric perimeter security fence will be installed forthwith, throw in a couple of guard dogs, cctv, alarms & of course firearms, then I'll feel satisfied that I've taken the necessary measures.

You do what you want to do & us gun lovers (that's how you & comrades refer to us) will do what we want to do. Clearly you disapprove of us - tough.

[LoveDaBlues]

Just a little common sense for u guys. Ask a burglar which residence he would would rather enter. One where he knows the people own a gun or one where he knows they do not. I would be willing to bet he will pick the one where he knows they do not own a gun 100 times out of 100 unless he knows the people are not home and wants to steal the gun.

Not to mention that it is like insurance. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Here is some common sense for you, cowboy.

Why does old farang have a gun? He must have many valuables.

Let's go and rob him, and we will take our guns.

If the daft farang as much as twitches we should shot him.

Why don't you tear your doors down? Leave your car unlocked every night? Any crime prevention expert in the world will tell you that thieves like easy targets, the more security measures you have in place the better.

As I've already said, when/if I eventually move out to Thailand permanently, an electric perimeter security fence will be installed forthwith, throw in a couple of guard dogs, cctv, alarms & of course firearms, then I'll feel satisfied that I've taken the necessary measures.

You do what you want to do & us gun lovers (that's how you & comrades refer to us) will do what we want to do. Clearly you disapprove of us - tough.

Owning a gun is a personal choice. If you don't want to own one then don't.

My brother was attacked by a guy twice his size. The guy had a baseball bat and had already struck him once on the forearm (trying for his head but my brother's arm came up and took the blow). Before he could take the next head swing my brother shot him twice in the belly with a .380; putting him on his ass. In this case a gun saved my brother's life.

[chuckd]

Just a little common sense for u guys. Ask a burglar which residence he would would rather enter. One where he knows the people own a gun or one where he knows they do not. I would be willing to bet he will pick the one where he knows they do not own a gun 100 times out of 100 unless he knows the people are not home and wants to steal the gun.

Not to mention that it is like insurance. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Here is some common sense for you, cowboy.

Why does old farang have a gun? He must have many valuables.

Let's go and rob him, and we will take our guns.

If the daft farang as much as twitches we should shot him.

Common sense seems to be needed by more than cowboy.

Not all the thugs attacking people (whether they be in PF Flyers or walkers) are carrying guns. Many of them have knives, chains, bricks or sticks. If they have a gun and I have a gun, then it is the Wild West all over again. However, if they don't have a gun, then the fight will be decidely one-sided. If I "twitch" with a gun and they "flinch" with a knife who do you suppose will win the argument over ownership of my property or the safety of my family?

Garro, I know you are anti-gun and I respect your views. However unless the ownership of a gun on my part threatens you personally, what difference does it make to you? You won't change anybody's mind that has been or intends to be a gun owner. I can't understand why you are getting so excited over something you have no control over and will never cause you harm.

I'm not going to shoot you...unless you come at me with a knife.

[garro]

Just a little common sense for u guys. Ask a burglar which residence he would would rather enter. One where he knows the people own a gun or one where he knows they do not. I would be willing to bet he will pick the one where he knows they do not own a gun 100 times out of 100 unless he knows the people are not home and wants to steal the gun.

Not to mention that it is like insurance. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Here is some common sense for you, cowboy.

Why does old farang have a gun? He must have many valuables.

Let's go and rob him, and we will take our guns.

If the daft farang as much as twitches we should shot him.

Common sense seems to be needed by more than cowboy.

Not all the thugs attacking people (whether they be in PF Flyers or walkers) are carrying guns. Many of them have knives, chains, bricks or sticks. If they have a gun and I have a gun, then it is the Wild West all over again. However, if they don't have a gun, then the fight will be decidely one-sided. If I "twitch" with a gun and they "flinch" with a knife who do you suppose will win the argument over ownership of my property or the safety of my family?

Garro, I know you are anti-gun and I respect your views. However unless the ownership of a gun on my part threatens you personally, what difference does it make to you? You won't change anybody's mind that has been or intends to be a gun owner. I can't understand why you are getting so excited over something you have no control over and will never cause you harm.

I'm not going to shoot you...unless you come at me with a knife.

As I have said in previous posts, I have seen the damage that guns can do through misuse or people in a panic. If a westerner shoots a Thai there will be hel_l to pay - it does not matter who is right and who is wrong. The Thai police might be far from CSI but they are not stupid - they can likely figure out who used the gun.

Your comment that it is not my business is a fair point, but the way I see it this is something which should be commented on. In the same way as if somebody else posted on something else which I believed could bring a lot of danger into their lives. Of course, people can choose to ignore me, but I feel compelled to at least comment. After all, what else is an open forum for.

[londoedan]

"The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire."

Only in the US is the possession of a fiream perceived to be a matter of personal choice (like a lifestyle statement or joining a country club), but you do not have to look far on the internet to see some appalling figures that support the above quote. In Western Europe, as in most civilised countries, the response to gun crime and the occasional massacre by a mis-guided nutter, has been to tighten and further tighten, gun control. Surprise, surprise, the level of murders, suicides etc are a fraction (and we are talking order's of magnitude here) of what they are in the US.

[VocalNeal]

Owning a gun is a personal choice. If you don't want to own one then don't.

My brother was attacked by a guy twice his size. The guy had a baseball bat and had already struck him once on the forearm (trying for his head but my brother's arm came up and took the blow). Before he could take the next head swing my brother shot him twice in the belly with a .380; putting him on his ass. In this case a gun saved my brother's life.

Attacked in Thailand by a guy with a baseball bat? Nigeria maybe...

Your brother normally walks around on a daily basis with a gun? I don't even carry a wallet.

Edited July 3, 2008 by VocalNeal

[wolfmanjack]

Just a little common sense for u guys. Ask a burglar which residence he would would rather enter. One where he knows the people own a gun or one where he knows they do not. I would be willing to bet he will pick the one where he knows they do not own a gun 100 times out of 100 unless he knows the people are not home and wants to steal the gun.

Not to mention that it is like insurance. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Here is some common sense for you, cowboy.

Why does old farang have a gun? He must have many valuables.

Let's go and rob him, and we will take our guns.

If the daft farang as much as twitches we should shot him.

Most people do not have this sort of mentality and the ones that do will shoot you even if you don't have a gun. The fact of the matter is that a criminal will choose the easiest target and the one that poses the least amount of danger to themselves. I personally do not want the criminal element to feel like they can walk into my house any time they want and get away with it with 0% risk to themselves. As it is now no one knows what they are up against when they enter my home.

I will join in with some of the other posters in expressing that anyone who owns a gun should be responsible enough to be trained in the use of that gun and make sure that every one in the house is trained also. Respect for any weapon should be instilled even if it is only a sharp pencil.

[wolfmanjack]

Outside of the 19th century Wild West there is good reason for "anti gun babble" as witnessed by the mass shootings in USA, UK and elsewhere even with some kind of gun control.............. something we should all be considerate of

yadda yadda yadda.

Rampages in Japan with a Knife ring a bell ?

Guns are harder to outrun wouldn't you say?

i can kill a lot more people with a machete on a crowded Tokyo street than you can with a 9mm. hel_l a straight edged razor as well.

What a daft argument.

What is so daft about it ? The main argument most of you have against guns are the nutters that shoot people. There are nutters out there that kill people with other weapons also. At least if the nutter is using a gun every one in the vicinity will be alerted to the danger and run or take cover after the first shot.

In the case of a nutter with a knife on a crowded subway or a crowded street many people will be slashed before people even realize what is happening. Most people will be standing around looking for where the screams are coming from and why. In my opinion the death toll will end up being much higher if all the nutters started using knives.

In both cases the real problem is not what weapons were used but why there are so many people going nutters in the first place.

[JoeInSurin]

"The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire."

Only in the US is the possession of a fiream perceived to be a matter of personal choice (like a lifestyle statement or joining a country club), but you do not have to look far on the internet to see some appalling figures that support the above quote. In Western Europe, as in most civilised countries, the response to gun crime and the occasional massacre by a mis-guided nutter, has been to tighten and further tighten, gun control. Surprise, surprise, the level of murders, suicides etc are a fraction (and we are talking order's of magnitude here) of what they are in the US.

If what you are saying is true then why does Thailand (with strict gun laws) have 11 times the rate of murders by firearms per capita than the USA (with liberal gun laws)?

[chuckd]

"The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire."

Only in the US is the possession of a fiream perceived to be a matter of personal choice (like a lifestyle statement or joining a country club), but you do not have to look far on the internet to see some appalling figures that support the above quote. In Western Europe, as in most civilised countries, the response to gun crime and the occasional massacre by a mis-guided nutter, has been to tighten and further tighten, gun control. Surprise, surprise, the level of murders, suicides etc are a fraction (and we are talking order's of magnitude here) of what they are in the US.

If what you are saying is true then why does Thailand (with strict gun laws) have 11 times the rate of murders by firearms per capita than the USA (with liberal gun laws)?

Actually 11.175 times better...but who's counting. Very good point that will likely be ignored.

I laughed at the opening statement that says..."The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and SPECIFICALLY TO THE LEVEL OF DEATH BY GUNFIRE".

I would suppose that death by motor vehicle would then be directly related to people that own and drive cars???? LOL

[Thaddeus]

Respect for any weapon should be instilled even if it is only a sharp pencil.

Or keyboard.

[londoedan]

<H3 minmax_bound="true">UK Facts & figures</H3>

• <LI minmax_bound="true">The number of overall offences involving firearms fell by 13% in 2006/07 compared to the previous year. <LI minmax_bound="true">Firearms were involved in 566 serious or fatal injuries in 2006/07, compared to 645 the previous year - a drop of 12%. <LI minmax_bound="true">The number of armed robberies involving guns dropped by 3% <LI minmax_bound="true">There were 13% fewer serious and fatal injuries related to gun crimes in 2006/07. <LI minmax_bound="true">The number of reported crimes involving imitation guns dropped by 15% in 2006/07.
  
• The number of reported crimes involving air guns dropped by 15% in 2006/07 over 2005/06.
  

[rixalex]

Outside of the 19th century Wild West there is good reason for "anti gun babble" as witnessed by the mass shootings in USA, UK and elsewhere even with some kind of gun control.............. something we should all be considerate of

yadda yadda yadda.

Rampages in Japan with a Knife ring a bell ?

Guns are harder to outrun wouldn't you say?

i can kill a lot more people with a machete on a crowded Tokyo street than you can with a 9mm. hel_l a straight edged razor as well.

What a daft argument.

What is so daft about it ? The main argument most of you have against guns are the nutters that shoot people. There are nutters out there that kill people with other weapons also. At least if the nutter is using a gun every one in the vicinity will be alerted to the danger and run or take cover after the first shot.

In the case of a nutter with a knife on a crowded subway or a crowded street many people will be slashed before people even realize what is happening. Most people will be standing around looking for where the screams are coming from and why. In my opinion the death toll will end up being much higher if all the nutters started using knives.

In both cases the real problem is not what weapons were used but why there are so many people going nutters in the first place.

Why is it so daft? You really need it explaining? Sheesh!

Firstly, you are trying to justify something (ie ownership of firearms) by telling us that other weapons are more dangerous. So what. Is cancer worse than AIDS? Doesn't matter. They both kill. If you think knives are more dangerous than guns then up to you, but you can't use that as a reason for having a gun or for saying that guns aren't bad - that would be daft.

Secondly, if knives are such "great" weapons, why are you so anxious to have a gun?

Could it be that knives only have the potential for greater destruction than guns in the limited set of circumstances you presented - ie people packed closely together in a crowd. In any other situation you care to think of, the gun "wins" hands down every time.

Now let me ask you "gun lovers" a question which i have already laboured, but with no response. When you argue in favour of the general public owning guns, do you actually think about what you are advocating and consider the bigger picture of where it takes society as a whole. Some of you have told me that nowhere is truly safe. So this means we should all have guns, or at least the right to have one? A gun for every home?

You talk about doing all you can to protect your families, but what you are in support of is your kids growing up in a world awash with guns. Daft is putting it mildly i'd say.

[JoeInSurin]

The most common weapon used in a violent crime in England and Wales is not a gun - but a knife. There are four times more knife-related killings as firearms-related killings.

If someone wants to kill you they can do it almost as easy with a knife.

The reason most people own a gun in the US is for hunting. There is nothing wrong if a person with the proper firearm training wants to hunt his own food to eat. To say every responsible hunter is some "Rambo" wanting to get his hands on a gun just to kill people is foolish.

[rixalex]

The most common weapon used in a violent crime in England and Wales is not a gun - but a knife. There are four times more knife-related killings as firearms-related killings.

Just possibly, could that have anything to do with availability of guns versus knives do you think?

Perhaps if guns were more readily available as you desire, that statistic might change.

P.S. Will anyone answer my laboured question? I guess not.

[JoeInSurin]

The most common weapon used in a violent crime in England and Wales is not a gun - but a knife. There are four times more knife-related killings as firearms-related killings.

Just possibly, could that have anything to do with availability of guns versus knives do you think?

Perhaps if guns were more readily available as you desire, that statistic might change.

P.S. Will anyone answer my laboured question? I guess not.

I will answer your labored question. In the US the general public owns guns and it is a great society. The generation I grew up in the US was awash with guns and we are fine. I don't see the point you are trying to make.

[chuckd]

Now let me ask you "gun lovers" a question which i have already laboured, but with no response. When you argue in favour of the general public owning guns, do you actually think about what you are advocating and consider the bigger picture of where it takes society as a whole. Some of you have told me that nowhere is truly safe. So this means we should all have guns, or at least the right to have one? A gun for every home?

You talk about doing all you can to protect your families, but what you are in support of is your kids growing up in a world awash with guns. Daft is putting it mildly i'd say.

I advocate that everybody who is vetted by the local police to be capable of gun ownership should be permitted to own one and carry it on his person, unconcealed. I have absolutely no problem with a society awash with guns. Right now, society is awash with guns but it's the criminals who are running the washing machine. I say make guns legal for everybody except convicted felons.

Just for a little background information, I was born at a very early age in Texas. I was raised to an older age in Texas and have been around guns since my early youth. I spent quite a bit of my adult lifetime near weapons of some sort and I feel very comfortable around them. My son was trained in handling guns and I would like to train my children now in their use and safety.

I do not propose open gun laws for Thailand. The Thai people don't have the same history and background with handling weapons as most Texas rednecks. The laws in Thailand should probably remain the same, even though it is the criminals that dominate the gun scene here.

Daft I may be, but prudent might be a better choice of words.

I have answered the question to the best of my limited vocabulary and style.

[rixalex]

The most common weapon used in a violent crime in England and Wales is not a gun - but a knife. There are four times more knife-related killings as firearms-related killings.

Just possibly, could that have anything to do with availability of guns versus knives do you think?

Perhaps if guns were more readily available as you desire, that statistic might change.

P.S. Will anyone answer my laboured question? I guess not.

I will answer your labored question. In the US the general public owns guns and it is a great society. The generation I grew up in the US was awash with guns and we are fine. I don't see the point you are trying to make.

I grew up in the US was awash with guns and we are fine.

??? I assume you are joking with that statement? By fine do you mean there are no gun related murders in the US?!

OK, the point i'm making, very basically is,

More guns in the world, that's a bad thing.

Less guns in the world, that's a good thing.

Simplistic i know, but that's my view.

Of course people find reasoning to justify their owning of a gun, but the honest truth is that most don't actually need a gun, they just want a gun, and don't care at what consequence it is to the world as a whole, or indeed to the next generation, that happens to include their own kids.

[rixalex]

I advocate that everybody who is vetted by the local police to be capable of gun ownership should be permitted to own one and carry it on his person, unconcealed.

Thank you for the answer.

To return to the topic of the OP for a moment...

When you say everyone who is vetted, do mean everyone who is vetted, plus family and friends of said vetted individual?

[JoeInSurin]

The most common weapon used in a violent crime in England and Wales is not a gun - but a knife. There are four times more knife-related killings as firearms-related killings.

Just possibly, could that have anything to do with availability of guns versus knives do you think?

Perhaps if guns were more readily available as you desire, that statistic might change.

P.S. Will anyone answer my laboured question? I guess not.

I will answer your labored question. In the US the general public owns guns and it is a great society. The generation I grew up in the US was awash with guns and we are fine. I don't see the point you are trying to make.

I grew up in the US was awash with guns and we are fine.

??? I assume you are joking with that statement? By fine do you mean there are no gun related murders in the US?! Thailand has stricter gun laws and has 11 times more murder by firearm than the US. If being "awash" with guns causes more murder why is this so?

OK, the point i'm making, very basically is,

More guns in the world, that's a bad thing.

Less guns in the world, that's a good thing.

Simplistic i know, but that's my view.

Of course people find reasoning to justify their owning of a gun, but the honest truth is that most don't actually need a gun, they just want a gun, and don't care at what consequence it is to the world as a whole, or indeed to the next generation, that happens to include their own kids. If my sport is hunting I don't actually need a gun??? What is a responsible hunter doing that would make consequences to hurt the next generation or their kids?

In the US most of the homes with guns in them are in more rural areas with very low crime rates. The high crime rates are in the city where most people don't hunt or own guns. If people owning guns cause more murders I would think it would be the other way around. Most murders in the US are drug dealers or gang violence against each other. The bad killing the bad. Washington D.C. used to be called "The Murder Capitol of the US" and you are not allowed to own a gun there.

[rixalex]

If my sport is hunting I don't actually need a gun???

No that's right, you don't need a gun, you want a gun. Soldiers are people who need guns.