Noise From Employees At Neighboring Bar. Complain And Won't Stop.

[daisy08]

I live in a mid-rise in a quiet area of town but behind a complex that houses a few upscale bars and restaurants. I cannot hear any noise from the bar/restaurants or the customers as the entrance/parking lot is on the other side of the complex. However, the kitchen of one bar/restaurant is near my building and the sink where they wash dishes is outside. Not only can you hear the constant clattering of silverware and plates from about 8-2 every night but the staff will come out and talk (I should say shout) from 8-2. I mentioned something to the manager of the place and he said he would talk to his staff. Fine except on Sunday night at like midnight the noise from there was so loud so I walked over there and lo and behold, it is the manager. He apologizes but is laughing (not sure if it is nervousness or complete disregard for other people) and says that his friends stopped by. As if that makes it better? Anyway, again tonight they are being loud. I have told my apartment management and tonight the security guards called the building management or maybe walked over there because the voices are down (but I can still here the clanking of plates). If it were people on the street talking loudly or people who live in the neighborhood, I would be fine (irritated but fine). The fact that this is a business and it is the employees causing the noise seems to me to not be fine and that I have said something to them (and specifically to the manager who then proceeded to wake me up the other night screaming with his friens) now a few times and they still don't seem to care baffles me. Is this how businesses operate here or is it a cultural thing or just people being people? I have found the people here to be so kind. I am a visitor to their country so I don't want to be disrespectful. I spoke to a couple people in the building and some do not hear it because of the location of their units and the others have said they hear the noise but just turn the air on high to block it out. The management at my apartment is incredible. Really, I have never had the pleasure of renting from people this nice and helpfu so I trust they will follow up but I am just curious as to why the employees of the restaurant/bar (including the manager) don't seem to care. Any insights? Anyone have a similar experience? If so, was it resolved?

Edited June 17, 2008 by daisy08

[Tyke]

Daisy,

welcome to Thailand! I have lived in BKK for 4 years now and in my opinion nothing can be done, and nothing will change. Unlike in the west, customers, business responsibilities, environmental concerns etc, etc are but little besides personal enjoyment. Also, I am afraid I have found that some Thais like to be in a position where they have one up on farangs. They have a strange relationship with them - a kind of inferiority complex. As a visitor or newby, you only see the outside - not what is lurking undernearth. Also bosses have a relationship with their workers based on mutual respect and they won't upset that relationship just for the sake of a mere foreigner, as it would mean loss of 'face' by the workers - something completely intolerable to them. Likewise, condo managements are not going to put themselves out by complaining to other Thais on behalf of farangs. Thais don't complain - it's not part of their culture - in fact they don't even seem to notice anything to complain about - ever! Laughing at you or in your presence is common and to us shows disrespect, but have not yet figured out what it all means, but when it happens you know you won't get any further with them. Don't get me wrong, Thais are wonderful and tolerant people but getting them to do things or change their way of doing things or their attitude is not one of their best characteristics (or maybe the best depending on your viewpoint).

I guess in a washing up facility, noise of clanking dishes is unavoidable anyway, so I'm afraid the only thing to do is get used to the noise or move away. Sorry to sound so negative, but it's best to know the truth rather than living with false hope that every tomorrow night might be better.

[sbk]

Thais tolerate very different noise levels than most westerners, what to you is noisy to many of them is nothing to bother about. Also, most Thai people won't like to make a fuss over something that to them seems minor and for a person who is, in their eyes anyway, a temporary visitor.

[Boater]

You think that is bad, try living near a Temple when they have a market on!, blaring out noise till 3 am in the morning!, again nothing can be done about it, welcome to thailand..

[Losangels]

Thais tolerate very different noise levels than most westerners, what to you is noisy to many of them is nothing to bother about. Also, most Thai people won't like to make a fuss over something that to them seems minor and for a person who is, in their eyes anyway, a temporary visitor.

Agree, also walk into any department store in the Hi-fi/electronic section and you'll hear music blasting away courtesy and enjoyment of the staff working there.

Noise doesn't seem to bother any customer but I won't be looking or buying anything there

[pumpuiman]

Noise canceling headphones are marvelous...BOSE makes a great pair.

Or foam earplugs if your on a budget....I've used these and slept like a baby aboard many rumbling vessels with obnoxious crew.

Try to look at the problem as a given, then work toward a solution. I think the path your currently pursuing will just infuriate you further.

Good luck.

[kiakaha]

I live in a mid-rise in a quiet area of town but behind a complex that houses a few upscale bars and restaurants. I cannot hear any noise from the bar/restaurants or the customers as the entrance/parking lot is on the other side of the complex. However, the kitchen of one bar/restaurant is near my building and the sink where they wash dishes is outside. Not only can you hear the constant clattering of silverware and plates from about 8-2 every night but the staff will come out and talk (I should say shout) from 8-2. I mentioned something to the manager of the place and he said he would talk to his staff. Fine except on Sunday night at like midnight the noise from there was so loud so I walked over there and lo and behold, it is the manager. He apologizes but is laughing (not sure if it is nervousness or complete disregard for other people) and says that his friends stopped by. As if that makes it better? Anyway, again tonight they are being loud. I have told my apartment management and tonight the security guards called the building management or maybe walked over there because the voices are down (but I can still here the clanking of plates). If it were people on the street talking loudly or people who live in the neighborhood, I would be fine (irritated but fine). The fact that this is a business and it is the employees causing the noise seems to me to not be fine and that I have said something to them (and specifically to the manager who then proceeded to wake me up the other night screaming with his friens) now a few times and they still don't seem to care baffles me. Is this how businesses operate here or is it a cultural thing or just people being people? I have found the people here to be so kind. I am a visitor to their country so I don't want to be disrespectful. I spoke to a couple people in the building and some do not hear it because of the location of their units and the others have said they hear the noise but just turn the air on high to block it out. The management at my apartment is incredible. Really, I have never had the pleasure of renting from people this nice and helpfu so I trust they will follow up but I am just curious as to why the employees of the restaurant/bar (including the manager) don't seem to care. Any insights? Anyone have a similar experience? If so, was it resolved?

Most Thais simply lack the intellligence/mental faculties to be able to link cause and effect together ie: if I do this what are the effects. That, coupled with their suppressive cultural edict of "Kreng Jai" basically means your screwed

[Tyke]

I live in a mid-rise in a quiet area of town but behind a complex that houses a few upscale bars and restaurants. I cannot hear any noise from the bar/restaurants or the customers as the entrance/parking lot is on the other side of the complex. However, the kitchen of one bar/restaurant is near my building and the sink where they wash dishes is outside. Not only can you hear the constant clattering of silverware and plates from about 8-2 every night but the staff will come out and talk (I should say shout) from 8-2. I mentioned something to the manager of the place and he said he would talk to his staff. Fine except on Sunday night at like midnight the noise from there was so loud so I walked over there and lo and behold, it is the manager. He apologizes but is laughing (not sure if it is nervousness or complete disregard for other people) and says that his friends stopped by. As if that makes it better? Anyway, again tonight they are being loud. I have told my apartment management and tonight the security guards called the building management or maybe walked over there because the voices are down (but I can still here the clanking of plates). If it were people on the street talking loudly or people who live in the neighborhood, I would be fine (irritated but fine). The fact that this is a business and it is the employees causing the noise seems to me to not be fine and that I have said something to them (and specifically to the manager who then proceeded to wake me up the other night screaming with his friens) now a few times and they still don't seem to care baffles me. Is this how businesses operate here or is it a cultural thing or just people being people? I have found the people here to be so kind. I am a visitor to their country so I don't want to be disrespectful. I spoke to a couple people in the building and some do not hear it because of the location of their units and the others have said they hear the noise but just turn the air on high to block it out. The management at my apartment is incredible. Really, I have never had the pleasure of renting from people this nice and helpfu so I trust they will follow up but I am just curious as to why the employees of the restaurant/bar (including the manager) don't seem to care. Any insights? Anyone have a similar experience? If so, was it resolved?

Most Thais simply lack the intellligence/mental faculties to be able to link cause and effect together ie: if I do this what are the effects. That, coupled with their suppressive cultural edict of "Kreng Jai" basically means your screwed

hehheheh, must agree somewhat - little sequential logic around, despite the Buddhist philosophy about what goes around comes around.

[Tyke]

You think that is bad, try living near a Temple when they have a market on!, blaring out noise till 3 am in the morning!, again nothing can be done about it, welcome to thailand..

Or a school!

[malcolminthemiddle]

I live right on Asoke and installed double glazed sealed units to cut out any traffic noise. works a treat.

[Jimjim]

It's a business that's open late. It makes noise. They need to make money. You live in close proximity. That's life. Tough luck. We live in a world with other people. If you're rich enough to build a mansion in the middle of a huge plot where you won't be bothered by noise pollution, that's your problem. If you can't, then perhaps you could try to find a quieter place to live. In the meantime, realize you're just as important as any old person on the street who doesn't deserve any special treatment. I only see a grumpy person here. Ya, it's annoying. But what can you do? How does being quiet benefit them? It doesn't. They can't change their practice just for one person. Sorry, but you're not important enough.

[Jimjim]

Most Thais simply lack the intellligence/mental faculties to be able to link cause and effect together ie: if I do this what are the effects. That, coupled with their suppressive cultural edict of "Kreng Jai" basically means your screwed

Oh, and uh, I find that incredibly offensive and racist.

[0Mix1up]

i was recently in a restaurant that had a very good band (world/thai music)

we went out the back to look at one of the owners motobikes.

the band or parts there of were playing

it was quite loud

the surrounding neighborhood were all nice houses

i thought they would be getting this intrusive noise most nights.

pick your home carefully,

i would imagine someone of importance could get something done

play Squarepusher loud

[daisy08]

Thank you for the responses. They truly were helpful because I was just sort of wondering if I was overly sensitive to this (that is, unreasonable) or if perhaps there is another reason and if that may be a cultural thing (and fair enough as I am a guest in their country and therefore must respect their culture.)

I disagree with the post that they are a business and need to make noise because it is the employees chatting in back with their friends or each other that make the noise. That does nothing to increase business and in fact they lose some because I wil never frequent their establishment now (and it is one that caters to some extent to someone like me). Moreover, there are three other bars/restaurants there and their employees do not make the noise. Also, I am far from a grumpy person but I know I would feel very guilty if I was talking outside someone's window and keeping them up at night. I am not saying they should, just that I would. And as for being as important as any person on the street, I would treat any person on the street with the same respect that I would anybody, foreigner or not.

btw, I tried the foam earplugs to no avail. Those coupled with my a/c on still do not block out the noise. My area is so quiet except for the noise from them.

Again, the responses have been very insightful so thank you.

[Scott]

You might consider moving to a different unit in the building.

[Travel2003]

Most Thais simply lack the intellligence/mental faculties to be able to link cause and effect together ie: if I do this what are the effects. That, coupled with their suppressive cultural edict of "Kreng Jai" basically means your screwed

Oh, and uh, I find that incredibly offensive and racist.

Agree.

Could hardly believe what I just read here.

I have a feeling that "kiakaha" does not live here.

[Briggsy]

Trust me.

I have lived in Bangkok for a long time.

They will pay no attention to your complaints.

Close your window. Consider double glazing. Wear ear plugs. Or if you are well connected, you could sabotage their business in some way.

But trust me, the concept of noise pollution is non-existent here. Illegal songthaews selling "gapkhao" at 5:30 am or a pisshead noisily beating up his girlfriend at 2 am, nobody cares, nobody intervenes and nobody complains.

Move to an upmarket "moo bahn" but scout it out first.

[daisy08]

sorry, I have another question. Not sure why I am obsessing but just trying to understand. If I stood outside their window every night then talking loudly (assuming they are asleep at the time), would they not be bothered? It seems from these posts that this may be the case? Or is it because I am a farang that it doesn't matter?

[Travel2003]

sorry, I have another question. Not sure why I am obsessing but just trying to understand. If I stood outside their window every night then talking loudly (assuming they are asleep at the time), would they not be bothered? It seems from these posts that this may be the case? Or is it because I am a farang that it doesn't matter?

They would most likely not be bothered.

Of course, unless you made it clear you did it to provoke them.

We are in another country. Sometimes not easy for the visitors to understand why the locals do this or that.

But nevertheless, we just have to accept it.

Again, unless it is done to provoke.

Btw,

the noise issue is not only something we can find in Thailand. Many of the countries in Asia have the same.

Thais, Pinoys, Khmers, etc, can easily sleep by a sidewalk, next to a road full of moving cars. I have always envied them this ability to shut out any noise.

[Tyke]

sorry, I have another question. Not sure why I am obsessing but just trying to understand. If I stood outside their window every night then talking loudly (assuming they are asleep at the time), would they not be bothered? It seems from these posts that this may be the case? Or is it because I am a farang that it doesn't matter?

Would they be bothered if you talked loudly outside their window when they are sleeping? They wouldn't even stir. You should see all the Thais snoozing on long distance buses when the video is blaring out - they don't even hear the sudden incredibly loud gun blasts in movies when they are in that semi comatose state. However, if they happened to be awake when you were talking loudly to yourself outside their window, they would think you were madder than a farang in Pattaya. And so you would be. It would send them into a state of uncontrolled giggles and that IS because you are a farang - they wouldn't be at all concerned if it was a Thai. You would end up as an entertainment spectacle. If I was you I would forget all about trying to make them change and do something to adapt yourself. It's the only way forward. You could try using those plastic brightly coloured ear mufflers that street drillers use - bit uncomfortable to sleep in but they do work. But don't let the Thais see you wearing them outside their window when you are talking loudly! :-)

[toptuan]

I took a camping trip to a far-flung national park here in Thailand a few years ago. Purpose: peace, quiet, solitude. Just me, my little tent, and a cuddle-partner.

What a joke.

The national park campground was across the street from a temple (yes, which had one of those "fairs" with non-stop amplified noise until 3 a.m.). Then, at 5:30 a.m., loudspeakers, which were attached to trees and poles throughout the camping area, began blaring a Bangkok radio station (complete with jabbering, loud Mowlam music, and obnoxious commercials). Full volume.

After two nights of 2.5 hours sleep each night, I threw in the towel, and high-tailed it back to my duplex apartment which is in the midst of university students who party 24/7 with massive stereo speakers they drag out into the front of their apartments.

TIT (This Is Thailand). Get used to it.

[Jimjim]

I disagree with the post that they are a business and need to make noise because it is the employees chatting in back with their friends or each other that make the noise. That does nothing to increase business and in fact they lose some because I wil never frequent their establishment now (and it is one that caters to some extent to someone like me). Moreover, there are three other bars/restaurants there and their employees do not make the noise. Also, I am far from a grumpy person but I know I would feel very guilty if I was talking outside someone's window and keeping them up at night. I am not saying they should, just that I would. And as for being as important as any person on the street, I would treat any person on the street with the same respect that I would anybody, foreigner or not.

I have to add I completely understand your annoyance but you have to look at it from their point of view. I think it has nothing to do with you being a foreigner. They would treat a Thai the same. Why should they care about you? You're one person. They could care less if you don't frequent their restaurant. If they're busy, they are getting lots of business. Working in a restaurant is a high-energy, stressful job and frankly the employees need a place to vent and that will include talking loudly. People in Thailand don't care too much about noise pollution and you'll just have to get used to that fact. I suggest you move to another room. If they're not getting other complaints and it's only you, then it's just not an issue to them and frankly I don't see why it should be.

[desi]

sorry, I have another question. Not sure why I am obsessing but just trying to understand. If I stood outside their window every night then talking loudly (assuming they are asleep at the time), would they not be bothered? It seems from these posts that this may be the case? Or is it because I am a farang that it doesn't matter?

No. Thais do get bothered by noise. But I'm not sure if they get bothered if it's a rule thing, or if the noise is really bothering them.

I'd had both experiences. Building going up outside my window with work going on well into the evening. I complain. Nothing happens. Maid next door taking care of a baby and letting it cry, cry, cry. Complain. Nothing happens. Kids running up and down the halls. Complain. Nothing happens. Models leasing an upstairs condo party into the wee hours. BOOM BOOM BOOM! Complain. Nothing happens. Complain again. Then call the police. And this was in an expensive condo.

They eventually got rid of the noisy kids. Moved the models further upstairs. But I'd already put my move into action.

I bought in a quiet area. A condo with rules.

No workmen allowed to make noise except from 1 - 4.

It made my contractor crazy when I renovated.

Except for checking daily, I was not around until the end of the reno so didn't notice that they were breaking the rules. Sure, the contractor fussed and all but with everything going on (if you've ever renovated, you'll know what I mean), it all became a part of the same.

It was only when I finally moved in with work still going on that I found out rules were being broken. And that they were mostly getting away with it.

I found out by my neighbour losing her temper. Yes. My Thai neighbour. My first introduction to my Thai neighbour.

She knocked on the door. Started yelling. Then walked away mid-sentence. We were all stunned. Laughed a bit. Wondered out loud if she was even Thai.

Later she came back in tears and apologised. Said that she didn't know what got into her. Said neither did her husband.

I shrugged. Said 'mai ben rai'. Told her to please not worry on my account. That I would be equally upset if I was in the same shoes.

(Apparently my workmen were constantly pushing it, whereas hers were getting thrown off the property when doing the same)

I apologised. Said we didn't realise what time it had gotten to. That they were just trying to finish 'one more thing' before calling it a day and forgot to watch the time.

We ended up our chat by bad-mouthing our condo management on their inconvenient noise rules.

Sure, I'm glad we have general noise rules. But for those needing to get work done it makes renovations a pain. And think about it, without renovations, condos crumble to the ground. But contractors do not want to travel, set up, then only work a couple of hours a day. This drags a job out even more than is usual when they find out how tied to a short window they are.

What to do ... what to do ...

[daisy08]

screaming with his friens

OP , like it or bugger off. Dont complain here.

thank you. that is very helpful.

[Tyke]

screaming with his friens

OP , like it or bugger off. Dont complain here.

If you can't make sensible remarks then don't contribute, it's quite simple.

[t.s]

Most Thais simply lack the intellligence/mental faculties to be able to link cause and effect together ie: if I do this what are the effects. That, coupled with their suppressive cultural edict of "Kreng Jai" basically means your screwed

while i agree with you that this certainly an issue where the mysterious concept of kreng jai applies i think your first statement is basically a load of racist <deleted>

[t.s]

sorry, I have another question. Not sure why I am obsessing but just trying to understand. If I stood outside their window every night then talking loudly (assuming they are asleep at the time), would they not be bothered? It seems from these posts that this may be the case? Or is it because I am a farang that it doesn't matter?

they may well be bothered, but it is unlikely that they would complain