Exploding The Myth

[kayaker]

Just a little rant really. I was at a shopping mall at the weekend and waiting for the elevator. Waiting with me was a woman in a wheelchair, and a family with a baby in a push chair. When the elevator arrived it was packed with able bodied thais. Obviously or maybe this is just me...I expected a few people to get off and use the escalators which wouldn't have required much effort, but which were quite unusable for the lady in the chair and best avoided by the family with push chair. But no!!!! The occupants all just stared at them and waited for the door to close.

Land of smiles and courtesy, manners etc etc ??????!!!!!! how about unbridled laziness!!!!!

Unimpressed!!!

BTW I've since seen this a number of times now.

[Scott]

I know what you mean and see this fairly frequently. It's not unique to Thailand, however. All over Asia it's a 'problem'. I say problem, because it's more a problem for me than for them. Most people seem to accept this as normal.

In general, when I've gone grocery shopping and am waiting for the elevator because it's the only reasonable way to get all that stuff to the car, I see people waiting for 3-5 minutes for the elevator and then getting off on the very next floor. By the way, the elevator where I shop is right next to the escalator! Now that is either complete laziness or a purposeful way to waste time (or some type of phobia)!

[PeaceBlondie]

I doubt it is typically "Thai style," and am tempted to delete this topic as Thai-bashing, but will leave it run for now, I guess. The situation you describe sounds rare, and a packed elevator is difficult to unload. They may have thought the less able-bodied could wait for the next, emptier car. Thailand has no exclusive franchise on thoughtless citizens. I have seen similar in the West, by non-Thais.

[Heng]

How do you know all the folks in the elevator didn't just have knee surgery?

Edited June 24, 2008 by Heng

[tuky]

Happened to me at MBK.

We ended up using the escalator with our baby in her pram because we couldn't get into a lift.

Obviously if we parked the pram directly infront of the lift doors people inside would not be able to get out, so we stayed off to one side, this allowed others opportunity to push in front of us and fill the lift car before we could get in.

We got pushed out of 4 or 5 lifts before we finally gave up and used the escalator (very dangerous).

It was quite disappointing but a great reminder or why we do not live in a big city.

[RakJungTorlae]

I doubt it is typically "Thai style," and am tempted to delete this topic as Thai-bashing, but will leave it run for now, I guess. The situation you describe sounds rare, and a packed elevator is difficult to unload. They may have thought the less able-bodied could wait for the next, emptier car. Thailand has no exclusive franchise on thoughtless citizens. I have seen similar in the West, by non-Thais.

Yeah it's defiantly debatable and I would not call this a Thai only problem. And I don't think they are being selfish as well. I think its more they as treating everyone the same. I know how they like to cut inline to get there service 1^st but its just a normal thing. I think in the west is more educated and advertised to help disabled and less mobil people.

Edited June 24, 2008 by RakJungTorlae

[ruddick]

I have to use a wheelchair to get around and find that sometimes it is very difficult to get on lifts in the large BKK malls. Usually the only way I can get on a lift is to just push my way in while saying sorry.

For some reason I find it is easier outside BKK, I guess it could have something to do with the pace of life in the "big city".

Don't know what it is like in my "home" country as I haven't been there for 18 years and I could walk then, but I expect it would be worse.

[thaihome]

Just a little rant really. I was at a shopping mall at the weekend and waiting for the elevator. Waiting with me was a woman in a wheelchair, and a family with a baby in a push chair. When the elevator arrived it was packed with able bodied thais. Obviously or maybe this is just me...I expected a few people to get off and use the escalators which wouldn't have required much effort, but which were quite unusable for the lady in the chair and best avoided by the family with push chair. But no!!!! The occupants all just stared at them and waited for the door to close.

Land of smiles and courtesy, manners etc etc ??????!!!!!! how about unbridled laziness!!!!!

Unimpressed!!!

BTW I've since seen this a number of times now.

Courtesy and manners (etiquette)are dependent on culture. There are other cultures in the world besides yours. If you live in Asia, you should try to understand Asian Culture.

Ethnocentrism

TH

[Heng]

Reminds me of a cousin, also Thai from the US who visits his parents here in Thailand -who moved "back" to Thailand, same as my folks and a few other families in our 'family' twice a year. Every Thanksgiving and Christmas, and not on Songkran or Chinese New Year (which are both more important in our family), and this is despite being fairly independent financially and self employed. Not a big deal, so he's adopted a fairly American lifestyle. BUT, he also talks a lot of talk about the importance of family and incidentally is a fairly vocal critic (in the same style of certain farangs) about local manners and 'norms' (cutting in line, bumping into folks on the sidewalks, driving habits, etc.). And every single year, it plays out, him whinging about this and that and then other family members, sometimes myself included... not a much so as in the past... give him flak about being hyprocritical about "manners" when his own manners are clearly lacking as well -not visiting elders on the proper holidays and having contact with one's folks via phone 5-6 times a year would be considered extremely rude here in many circles-. It's all relative.

Myself, if I were with my wife, child, parents, and possibly extended family, where even one person had a reason to be in the elevator, I very likely wouldn't exit the lift, not for a pregnant lady or handicapped midget. If I were alone, I probably would. I don't expect others to value what I value as important, nor should they expect me to value what they value as important, as we all have different priorities.

Edited June 24, 2008 by Heng

[NovaBlue05]

Well, at least the disabled only have to wait a little longer. It's not as bad as seeing able bodied people park in the handicapped parking space thereby forcing the disabled person to navigate the additional distance from the regular parking. That's right here in the good 'ol US.

[draggons]

It's common throughout the world now not just here.

[sayitaintso]

try getting on the lift at prangin mall in penang.

rudeness is a requirement for admission.

[Marvo]

I have to use a wheelchair to get around and find that sometimes it is very difficult to get on lifts in the large BKK malls. Usually the only way I can get on a lift is to just push my way in while saying sorry.

You don't need to say "sorry" to people trying to push in front of you ruddick

[ruddick]

I am not saying sorry to people pushing in front of me. More like "sorry" as my metal monster wacks them on the back of the legs or on there shins.

Unfortunately I am the one doing the pushing. If you don't you will be waiting for a lift a very long time.

[Sakeopete]

Rude and thoughtless behavior is a world wide phenomenon, in the developed world I would attribute it to up-bring. Most people from my home town had good manners but there were those who exhibited poor manners. In Asia I blame the hi so class as I have seen them exhibit the worst manners and since lower class Asians like to copy all that is hi so there you have it.

It is very annoying though when the escalator is only a few feet away and they are willing to wait for several minutes for the lift.

[cloudhopper]

Just a little rant really. I was at a shopping mall at the weekend and waiting for the elevator. Waiting with me was a woman in a wheelchair, and a family with a baby in a push chair. When the elevator arrived it was packed with able bodied thais. Obviously or maybe this is just me...I expected a few people to get off and use the escalators which wouldn't have required much effort, but which were quite unusable for the lady in the chair and best avoided by the family with push chair. But no!!!! The occupants all just stared at them and waited for the door to close.

Land of smiles and courtesy, manners etc etc ??????!!!!!! how about unbridled laziness!!!!!

Unimpressed!!!

BTW I've since seen this a number of times now.

Courtesy and manners (etiquette)are dependent on culture. There are other cultures in the world besides yours. If you live in Asia, you should try to understand Asian Culture.

Ethnocentrism

TH

So are you making the case that the incident described here is part of "Asian Culture"?

[technocracy]

It's certainly the same here in Laos . . . however elevators aren't that widespread so ettiquette in using them also isn't widespread.

Everytime I visit the Morning Market with the baby in the pram wait for the lift people will purposely try to push in front of me as I'll be waiting. They get a surprise however when I cut them off with the pram! Sure as hel_l pisses me off we'll be the first ones waiting for the lift standing with a chair and other then turn up and think they can just walk in front of us and the pram.

Although that said it isn't everyone several times I've been courteously let in first - mainly by guys on there own.

Prams on escalators are easy . . . well that is if you haven't bought a huge pram - it was one of the best bit of advice I've ever been given by friend - when buying a pram for your baby buy the cheapest and lightest one you can find! Not only is it dead easy to folder up and put in the car, literally 5 seconds, but also carrying it up the occasional stairs or using escalators ain't an issue.

[Ulysses G.]

Just a little rant really. I was at a shopping mall at the weekend and waiting for the elevator. Waiting with me was a woman in a wheelchair, and a family with a baby in a push chair. When the elevator arrived it was packed with able bodied thais. Obviously or maybe this is just me...I expected a few people to get off and use the escalators which wouldn't have required much effort, but which were quite unusable for the lady in the chair and best avoided by the family with push chair. But no!!!! The occupants all just stared at them and waited for the door to close.

Land of smiles and courtesy, manners etc etc ??????!!!!!! how about unbridled laziness!!!!!

Unimpressed!!!

BTW I've since seen this a number of times now.

Courtesy and manners (etiquette)are dependent on culture. There are other cultures in the world besides yours. If you live in Asia, you should try to understand Asian Culture.

Ethnocentrism

TH

So are you making the case that the incident described here is part of "Asian Culture"?

Thai manners perhaps?

Edited June 24, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[ade100]

Just a little rant really. I was at a shopping mall at the weekend and waiting for the elevator. Waiting with me was a woman in a wheelchair, and a family with a baby in a push chair. When the elevator arrived it was packed with able bodied thais. Obviously or maybe this is just me...I expected a few people to get off and use the escalators which wouldn't have required much effort, but which were quite unusable for the lady in the chair and best avoided by the family with push chair. But no!!!! The occupants all just stared at them and waited for the door to close.

Land of smiles and courtesy, manners etc etc ??????!!!!!! how about unbridled laziness!!!!!

Unimpressed!!!

BTW I've since seen this a number of times now.

Courtesy and manners (etiquette)are dependent on culture. There are other cultures in the world besides yours. If you live in Asia, you should try to understand Asian Culture.

Ethnocentrism

TH

This is nothing to do with Asian culture. Here in Singapore I see people giving up their seat on the MRT to older people on a daily basis. Courtesy is the norm here. It is simply a mark of how civilised a country is or has become.

[bratpack]

I doubt it is typically "Thai style," and am tempted to delete this topic as Thai-bashing, but will leave it run for now, I guess. The situation you describe sounds rare, and a packed elevator is difficult to unload. They may have thought the less able-bodied could wait for the next, emptier car. Thailand has no exclusive franchise on thoughtless citizens. I have seen similar in the West, by non-Thais.

ARE YOU WESTERN BASHING THEN.TOUCHE

[Travel2003]

Just a little rant really. I was at a shopping mall at the weekend and waiting for the elevator. Waiting with me was a woman in a wheelchair, and a family with a baby in a push chair. When the elevator arrived it was packed with able bodied thais. Obviously or maybe this is just me...I expected a few people to get off and use the escalators which wouldn't have required much effort, but which were quite unusable for the lady in the chair and best avoided by the family with push chair. But no!!!! The occupants all just stared at them and waited for the door to close.

Land of smiles and courtesy, manners etc etc ??????!!!!!! how about unbridled laziness!!!!!

Unimpressed!!!

BTW I've since seen this a number of times now.

Courtesy and manners (etiquette)are dependent on culture. There are other cultures in the world besides yours. If you live in Asia, you should try to understand Asian Culture.

Ethnocentrism

TH

So are you making the case that the incident described here is part of "Asian Culture"?

Thai manners perhaps?

Agree.

It is about local manners.

And I dont get the Asian Culture thing either.

What Asian culture? Arabs? Indians? Pakistanis? South-East Asia? Which one of the Asian cultures?

One poster talk about Ethnocentrism, but seem to fail to understand himself that there are many cultures on this continent.

I have been to quite a few Asian countries. Strangely enough, this elevator issue is actually something I have only experienced here.

[bratpack]

When i first lived here,i was shocked at the rudeness,and the worst is when you are walking in a shop and expect someone to hold the door for you,no chance.i have been smacked twice in the face by a door closing on me after i thought the thai would have the decency to hold the door for me but they just let it close hard.After a while you get used to the rudeness,but good manners are free for everyone.

[imaneggspurt]

I doubt it is typically "Thai style," and am tempted to delete this topic as Thai-bashing, but will leave it run for now, I guess. The situation you describe sounds rare, and a packed elevator is difficult to unload. They may have thought the less able-bodied could wait for the next, emptier car. Thailand has no exclusive franchise on thoughtless citizens. I have seen similar in the West, by non-Thais.

Yeah it's defiantly debatable and I would not call this a Thai only problem. And I don't think they are being selfish as well. I think its more they as treating everyone the same. I know how they like to cut inline to get there service 1^st but its just a normal thing. I think in the west is more educated and advertised to help disabled and less mobil people.

This is more like the answer, most are uneducated and dont have any common sense,.probably dreaming of the next meal,.

[Scott]

When I worked in Hong Kong, which is a model of good manners, I once got on a lift with about 40 other people. Jammed in like sardines. The doors closed and the 'overweight' light when on and the doors opened. No one got off, we just sat there for an eternally long time. I was at the back, but finally, out of frustration decided to push my way out. I got out, but it was still overweight and no one moved. I don't know what happened as I managed to get on a different lift.

In HK, which is very crowded, you have to take the lift to the upper floors--no escalators, so it was a free-for-all sometimes. The only people who seemed to 'flinch' were the westerners.

In Western countries, I have seldom encountered more than a few people waiting for an elevator or actually in it. Here, they are often full to capacity.

Cultures are different and manners are different.

[MSingh]

Certainly not ONLY Thailand as it happens all over the World, in my Home Country of the UK however it's the place taht i've spent most of my life & also the palce where i have experienced the most of people showing manners & morals like holding Doors fro people, standing up on Trains when others need the Seat more such as Mothers with Baby's or Old People, i've experienced it in the US on numerous occasions where people would just let the Door go or i would hold a Door & people would just walk through it as is i was a Bellboy or something & not even say thank you..

But in Thailand, it's does multiply, you can't possibly say everyone but the VAST majority that i've come accross have very little manners or what we perceive as manners in the West..The Children are horrifically indisciplined too...

[bonobo]

Yes, but I have seen able-bodied people parking there only to get harangued by other passersby, and I have to admit, I have done my share of haranguing. And if a cop is around, he or she gets pointed to that spot to give a gefty ticket to the person parking there.

Able-bodied people parking in handicapped spaces is not all that common, especially as it has become a very PC topic.

Well, at least the disabled only have to wait a little longer. It's not as bad as seeing able bodied people park in the handicapped parking space thereby forcing the disabled person to navigate the additional distance from the regular parking. That's right here in the good 'ol US.

[bonobo]

Sorry, I just ahven't seen it in other nations.

I realize that this is what we as Westerners perceive as manners. (In Japan, for example, speaking on a cell phone on the train is considered extremely rude, or even loud converstions in a restaurant.)

But in the US, I see people holding open doors, I see people giving up their seat, etc. I don't think I have ever had someone not thanking me for holding open the door for them, and rarely someone has let it close in my face.

In Thailand, however, this is a regular occurence. This is not part of what is considered polite or rude, so I don't think we as Westerners should label it as such.

Holding open a door is not big deal, but I do think not allowing a disabled person to get on an elevator or someone with a baby stroller to get on is something that should be discouraged. Rude or not in THai society, some things should be addressed i norder for a society to function well.

Certainly not ONLY Thailand as it happens all over the World, in my Home Country of the UK however it's the place taht i've spent most of my life & also the palce where i have experienced the most of people showing manners & morals like holding Doors fro people, standing up on Trains when others need the Seat more such as Mothers with Baby's or Old People, i've experienced it in the US on numerous occasions where people would just let the Door go or i would hold a Door & people would just walk through it as is i was a Bellboy or something & not even say thank you..

But in Thailand, it's does multiply, you can't possibly say everyone but the VAST majority that i've come accross have very little manners or what we perceive as manners in the West..The Children are horrifically indisciplined too...

[Jimjim]

Regardless, Bangkok is not handicapped-friendly. Just look at the sidewalks, etc.

[polecat]

Culture related? Definitely. Exclusive to Thailand? Definitely not.

I take my one year old son home on the BTS every night after picking him up from daycare. I have him on a sling on my front, a backpack with his daily bits n bobs, my work-bag, and a pushchair slung over my other shoulder. I'm usually sweating because the gear is heavy, I'm bang out of shape and hey! this is a hot country.

Frequency passengers will smile and coo at my kid from the comfort of their seats: every day.

Frequency someone has offered me their seat to lighten my load: about twice in the last 6 months.

But because I understand and appreciate Thai culture, this doesn't bug me. Oh no, I love it. I appreciate that there is a different set of social rules here and I abide by them. In fact, just before I collapse on the train through severe exhaustion, I make a little bow, croak out a demure "mai bpen rai", and give a shy giggle.

[MSingh]

Sorry, I just ahven't seen it in other nations.

I realize that this is what we as Westerners perceive as manners. (In Japan, for example, speaking on a cell phone on the train is considered extremely rude, or even loud converstions in a restaurant.)

But in the US, I see people holding open doors, I see people giving up their seat, etc. I don't think I have ever had someone not thanking me for holding open the door for them, and rarely someone has let it close in my face.

In Thailand, however, this is a regular occurence. This is not part of what is considered polite or rude, so I don't think we as Westerners should label it as such.

Holding open a door is not big deal, but I do think not allowing a disabled person to get on an elevator or someone with a baby stroller to get on is something that should be discouraged. Rude or not in THai society, some things should be addressed i norder for a society to function well.

Certainly not ONLY Thailand as it happens all over the World, in my Home Country of the UK however it's the place taht i've spent most of my life & also the palce where i have experienced the most of people showing manners & morals like holding Doors fro people, standing up on Trains when others need the Seat more such as Mothers with Baby's or Old People, i've experienced it in the US on numerous occasions where people would just let the Door go or i would hold a Door & people would just walk through it as is i was a Bellboy or something & not even say thank you..

But in Thailand, it's does multiply, you can't possibly say everyone but the VAST majority that i've come accross have very little manners or what we perceive as manners in the West..The Children are horrifically indisciplined too...

I completely agree but are you serious with regards to what i underlined ??

If so, maybe my 2 years in Chicago experienceing it was just down to bad luck..

I tell you something though Guys & Girls, on Samui where i am, it's 10 times as bad as BKK for it because on Samui ( not sure how to word this but it is what it is & no offence is intended ) we get Samuians where the majority are uneducated, Men & Women who work in the Construction Industry who, wherever they're from, are mostly all uneducated & Men & Women who work the Tourist/Bar scene who unfortunately dont' care a great deal about anything other than their own so wouldn't dream of a holding a Door for anyone..

But the root of the problem lies deeper than this, if they're not brought up with manners, we shouldhn't be naive enough to think they'd just develop them overnight just because all of a sudden, we are here..

I was brought up to help Old People cross the road if needed, to hold Doors for people & if it was done in reserve i'd offer a Thank you, if a Lady with Kids or who was Pregnant was on the Train or Bus, i'd give up my Seat..

But that's just me & many others, not everyone on teh Planet..

As i said before though, it certainly isn't a Thailand only problem & even if you haven't experienced it anywhere else, i'm not kidding when i say it DOES happen all over the World, of course it does, there's bad Apples in every bunch..

But it does seem to be a regular occurance in Thailand, that's true..