Exploding The Myth

[Heng]

When I worked in Hong Kong, which is a model of good manners, I once got on a lift with about 40 other people. Jammed in like sardines. The doors closed and the 'overweight' light when on and the doors opened. No one got off, we just sat there for an eternally long time.

It's all relative. The Brits probably thought 99 years sounded like a "long" time too. What's a few minutes?

[bonobo]

Sorry, I just ahven't seen it in other nations.

I realize that this is what we as Westerners perceive as manners. (In Japan, for example, speaking on a cell phone on the train is considered extremely rude, or even loud converstions in a restaurant.)

But in the US, I see people holding open doors, I see people giving up their seat, etc. I don't think I have ever had someone not thanking me for holding open the door for them, and rarely someone has let it close in my face.

In Thailand, however, this is a regular occurence. This is not part of what is considered polite or rude, so I don't think we as Westerners should label it as such.

Holding open a door is not big deal, but I do think not allowing a disabled person to get on an elevator or someone with a baby stroller to get on is something that should be discouraged. Rude or not in THai society, some things should be addressed i norder for a society to function well.

Certainly not ONLY Thailand as it happens all over the World, in my Home Country of the UK however it's the place taht i've spent most of my life & also the palce where i have experienced the most of people showing manners & morals like holding Doors fro people, standing up on Trains when others need the Seat more such as Mothers with Baby's or Old People, i've experienced it in the US on numerous occasions where people would just let the Door go or i would hold a Door & people would just walk through it as is i was a Bellboy or something & not even say thank you..

But in Thailand, it's does multiply, you can't possibly say everyone but the VAST majority that i've come accross have very little manners or what we perceive as manners in the West..The Children are horrifically indisciplined too...

I completely agree but are you serious with regards to what i underlined ??

If so, maybe my 2 years in Chicago experienceing it was just down to bad luck..

Yes, I am serious. I may have selective memory here, but I think I almost always get thanked. Even at Major Pin Klao here in Thailand, I usually get thanked for holding open the door.

My main peeve in the US is when I let a motorist in from a side road and I don't get the little "thank you wave." Most do, but if someone neglects it, I always note it, so I think I would remember if someone did not thank me for holding the door.

But manners need to be taken into context of where you are located. If Thais, for example, are not brought up to think that giving up our seat to a lady is polite, then you cannot expect them to do that, and you should not think they are rude for not doing it. Rudeness is acting against what is socially acceptable.

I certainly know that there are things which are perfectly acceptable to me as an American which are not considered polite in Thai culture, and I have to work to keep that in mind while I am out and about in Thailand.

[dutchguest]

I think Thai people are traditionally about the most unselfish people in the world. Think about the tradition in the villages to share everything with everybody. (also boeddhism learns to give up the "self").

I also think that in Thailand old, sick, disabled persons are generally treated with more respect and less discrimination than in the west (and many old or disabled western man has the same experience). People are more helpfull.

In the west most people have a thin, superficial layer of courtiousness, witch covers up the egoisme and witch sometimes can make things worse for the disabled. May be the disabled waiting for the lift doesn't want all this courtiousness and fuss and prefers to wait for the next lift.

[wintermute]

In the west most people have a thin, superficial layer of courtiousness, witch covers up the egoisme and witch sometimes can make things worse for the disabled. May be the disabled waiting for the lift doesn't want all this courtiousness and fuss and prefers to wait for the next lift.

Wow finally someone got it right. I'd say this is extremely true for the U.S. People are superficially polite and "helpful" in service positions and casual daily interactions but it's pretty superficial. Like the Russian saying goes..Honey on the tongue, ice underneath.

In Thailand, I don't think people are rude on purpose. It's not like China where rudeness is just a way of life or Russia where excessive smiling at people could get you beat. Thai people are generally polite. I've seen more rude and arrogant Farang than anything else.

[bkkjames]

Just a little rant really. I was at a shopping mall at the weekend and waiting for the elevator. Waiting with me was a woman in a wheelchair, and a family with a baby in a push chair. When the elevator arrived it was packed with able bodied thais. Obviously or maybe this is just me...I expected a few people to get off and use the escalators which wouldn't have required much effort, but which were quite unusable for the lady in the chair and best avoided by the family with push chair. But no!!!! The occupants all just stared at them and waited for the door to close.

Land of smiles and courtesy, manners etc etc ??????!!!!!! how about unbridled laziness!!!!!

Unimpressed!!!

BTW I've since seen this a number of times now.

Courtesy and manners (etiquette)are dependent on culture. There are other cultures in the world besides yours. If you live in Asia, you should try to understand Asian Culture.

Ethnocentrism

TH

What are you saying? That Thais have no courtesy or manners then and it's Ok cause it's Thailand?

[lardy]

Hang on you are forgetting that they are disabled because of their previous wrong doings and a s such deserve no special treatment.

[lardy]

Sorry, I just ahven't seen it in other nations.

I realize that this is what we as Westerners perceive as manners. (In Japan, for example, speaking on a cell phone on the train is considered extremely rude, or even loud converstions in a restaurant.)

But in the US, I see people holding open doors, I see people giving up their seat, etc. I don't think I have ever had someone not thanking me for holding open the door for them, and rarely someone has let it close in my face.

In Thailand, however, this is a regular occurence. This is not part of what is considered polite or rude, so I don't think we as Westerners should label it as such.

Holding open a door is not big deal, but I do think not allowing a disabled person to get on an elevator or someone with a baby stroller to get on is something that should be discouraged. Rude or not in THai society, some things should be addressed i norder for a society to function well.

Certainly not ONLY Thailand as it happens all over the World, in my Home Country of the UK however it's the place taht i've spent most of my life & also the palce where i have experienced the most of people showing manners & morals like holding Doors fro people, standing up on Trains when others need the Seat more such as Mothers with Baby's or Old People, i've experienced it in the US on numerous occasions where people would just let the Door go or i would hold a Door & people would just walk through it as is i was a Bellboy or something & not even say thank you..

But in Thailand, it's does multiply, you can't possibly say everyone but the VAST majority that i've come accross have very little manners or what we perceive as manners in the West..The Children are horrifically indisciplined too...

Well Im always of the opinion that anyone with a baby stroller chose to have the baby and thery made that decision not me so why should I stand . Selfish maybe.

[MSingh]

Just a little rant really. I was at a shopping mall at the weekend and waiting for the elevator. Waiting with me was a woman in a wheelchair, and a family with a baby in a push chair. When the elevator arrived it was packed with able bodied thais. Obviously or maybe this is just me...I expected a few people to get off and use the escalators which wouldn't have required much effort, but which were quite unusable for the lady in the chair and best avoided by the family with push chair. But no!!!! The occupants all just stared at them and waited for the door to close.

Land of smiles and courtesy, manners etc etc ??????!!!!!! how about unbridled laziness!!!!!

Unimpressed!!!

BTW I've since seen this a number of times now.

Courtesy and manners (etiquette)are dependent on culture. There are other cultures in the world besides yours. If you live in Asia, you should try to understand Asian Culture.

Ethnocentrism

TH

What are you saying? That Thais have no courtesy or manners then and it's Ok cause it's Thailand?

That's absurd if he is..

[vegas]

This notion of waiting 5 minutes for the lift to travel 1 floor when the escalator is only 15 metres away (eg. Central Chidlom) has always had me baffled. Maybe it's my mindset, but to me it's simple logic that if I walk over to the escalator, it is far more efficient and less time consuming than waiting 5 minutes for a lift, cramming myself in with 30 other people, just to go up 10 feet. Or maybe I am more motivated and energetic than most??

[polecat]

Wow finally someone got it right. I'd say this is extremely true for the U.S. People are superficially polite and "helpful" in service positions and casual daily interactions but it's pretty superficial. Like the Russian saying goes..Honey on the tongue, ice underneath.

Superficial you may think, but I think of it in terms of making everybody's day a little less stressful. When someone barges in front of me at the 7-Eleven counter, I couldn't care less whether he looks after his wife's sick granny. And when the 10th car jumps the red light and all the other traffic has to sit in the middle of an intersection because there was no room for him in the first place, I couldn't give two hoots whether he is accepting of katoeys in his village. I reserve the right to look sternly at these offenders, and maybe do a little ''harrumphing'' under my breath. It's the only language they understand!

(*thinks* Maybe I'll get some Ben-Hur style wheel blades for getting on and off the BTS)

[a2396]

try getting on the lift at prangin mall in penang.

rudeness is a requirement for admission.

I always found this type of "pusinh ahead) & jumping the Q much worse in Malaysia than Thailand.

[JetsetBkk]

...maybe this is just me...I expected a few people to get off...

So you really expected people already in the lift and waiting to go to another floor, to get out so that the wheelchair woman could get on?

I have NEVER seen that in the west and I would never expect to see it here.

Nothing to do with Thailand or Thais or culture. I think PB got it right:

I doubt it is typically "Thai style," and am tempted to delete this topic as Thai-bashing...

[Payboy]

How do you know all the folks in the elevator didn't just have knee surgery?

or they were not ethnic thais - indians, burmese or chinese probably....

[dkstoney]

I doubt it is typically "Thai style," and am tempted to delete this topic as Thai-bashing, but will leave it run for now, I guess. The situation you describe sounds rare, and a packed elevator is difficult to unload. They may have thought the less able-bodied could wait for the next, emptier car. Thailand has no exclusive franchise on thoughtless citizens. I have seen similar in the West, by non-Thais.

Yeah it's defiantly debatable and I would not call this a Thai only problem. And I don't think they are being selfish as well. I think its more they as treating everyone the same. I know how they like to cut inline to get there service 1^st but its just a normal thing. I think in the west is more educated and advertised to help disabled and less mobil people.

No, it's because all through school you're told not to cut the line. If you do there's either 5 or 6 kids there to call a teacher over to send you to the back of the line or just one kid that hits you in the face.

[tuky]

Well Im always of the opinion that anyone with a baby stroller chose to have the baby and thery made that decision not me so why should I stand . Selfish maybe.

Nice one.

[polecat]

Well Im always of the opinion that anyone with a baby stroller chose to have the baby and thery made that decision not me so why should I stand . Selfish maybe.

And anyone in robes chose to become a monk. And anyone with lots of bags chose to go shopping. And anyone who's old chose to drink a glass of red wine a day and lay off the ciggies. And anyone who looks tired chose to get a job.???

Kind of misses the point about politeness, Lardy.

Oh, and by the way, if it was a matter of choosing to have kids...there'd be a lot less strollers

[lardy]

Well Im always of the opinion that anyone with a baby stroller chose to have the baby and thery made that decision not me so why should I stand . Selfish maybe.

And anyone in robes chose to become a monk. And anyone with lots of bags chose to go shopping. And anyone who's old chose to drink a glass of red wine a day and lay off the ciggies. And anyone who looks tired chose to get a job.???

Kind of misses the point about politeness, Lardy.

Oh, and by the way, if it was a matter of choosing to have kids...there'd be a lot less strollers

Not really they chose to havethe kid without asking me......... is that polite? they should have asked me first after all it s me that has to get out of the lift or stand up isnt it?

I wouldn t do it for a monk either, the shopper could have got help from a friend , why impose on other people from your own choices. Is it polite to expect others to help you inthis type of situation after al with more thought it neednt of happened, they could shop when its quiet, leave the kid with friends etc etc

[nzgregor]

I would not get out of an elevator for a wheelchair person. After all they are already sitting down so can wait a bit more.

[klikster]

I ran into somewhat similar situation about 10 years ago in BKK. Walking north on Silom, having come from Mahaesak, I approached an older Thai man in a wheelchair stuck in one of those metal sidewalk drainage grates. He looked desperate trying to free the wheelchair to the point of trying to get out of his chair.

The sidewalk was extremely crowded with Thais pushing past him and, basically, ignoring him.

I put a hand on his shoulder and said "jai yen yen" .. then looked to see that one non-pneumatic tire had come off a rim.

I rolled it back into place, slowly and carefully, making sure that my wide body was blocking the sidewalk as much as possible. Basically, the pedestrians had to wait. A few that tried to push past me got very dirty look. Within 20 or 30 seconds, I had rolled him off the grate and out of the foot traffic.

He talked to me in pretty good English, and after thanking me profusely and shaking hands 2 or 3 times said, "Why nobody help me? Why only farang help me."

[polecat]

Is it polite to expect others to help you inthis type of situation

I don't think anyone's ''expecting'', I think it's just a little disappointing when politeness isn't exercised. Personally I have a great time smiling and muttering good old Anglo Saxon invective at queue jumpers and door slammers.

PS - are you really lardy?

[njpski]

if there is room in the lift, then bunch up and let anyone waiting into lift, why differentiate between wheelies, old people, parents with pushers?

if there is no room, there is no room!!

BTW baby carriages are going the way of 4WDs, getting bigger and more intrusive!!

Edited June 25, 2008 by njpski

[NovaBlue05]

As some have previously posted, I can't imagine why I would get off an elevator to let a disabled person in my place. The situation doesn't seem to meet the same standard as ....say....giving up your seat on the bus to and elderly or pregnant woman

[klikster]

As some have previously posted, I can't imagine why I would get off an elevator to let a disabled person in my place. The situation doesn't seem to meet the same standard as ....say....giving up your seat on the bus to and elderly or pregnant woman

I would. Simple reason, she couldn't take the escalator. I could.

[uptou]

I would imagine that the lady in the wheelchair was hoping not to cause too much fuss at all,& hoping for a completely empty elevator so she wouldnt have to manoever the chair too much.As for the baby,i should imagine that it would have been too busy thinking about its next meal or in the process of puking up the previous one.

[Felt 35]

Just a little rant really. I was at a shopping mall at the weekend and waiting for the elevator. Waiting with me was a woman in a wheelchair, and a family with a baby in a push chair. When the elevator arrived it was packed with able bodied thais. Obviously or maybe this is just me...I expected a few people to get off and use the escalators which wouldn't have required much effort, but which were quite unusable for the lady in the chair and best avoided by the family with push chair. But no!!!! The occupants all just stared at them and waited for the door to close.

Land of smiles and courtesy, manners etc etc ??????!!!!!! how about unbridled laziness!!!!!

Unimpressed!!!

BTW I've since seen this a number of times now.

This is common here. The same happens all the time when people are waiting for the lift. The masses will try to get into the lift before people have a change to get out. Both is called “lack of good manners”

[lardy]

Is it polite to expect others to help you inthis type of situation

I don't think anyone's ''expecting'', I think it's just a little disappointing when politeness isn't exercised. Personally I have a great time smiling and muttering good old Anglo Saxon invective at queue jumpers and door slammers.

PS - are you really lardy?

Oh dont get me wrong i would probably get out of the lift but sometimes other people think they are special with their kids and that I "should" automatically get out.

Am I lardy hmmmmmmmmm well Im 12 stone??........................and 4'6" I try to eat as much as I can so no one else can get in the lift with me. Either that or the flatulence makes them get out on the very next floor!! isnt it polite like burping in some countries?? so there you see I am being polite hahaahaha.

[NovaBlue05]

As some have previously posted, I can't imagine why I would get off an elevator to let a disabled person in my place. The situation doesn't seem to meet the same standard as ....say....giving up your seat on the bus to and elderly or pregnant woman

I would. Simple reason, she couldn't take the escalator. I could.

But...she could take the next available elevator. Now if the person ask me point blank if we could switch....then sure.

I never take elevators unless in a highrise anyway so I guess I never really observed who was using the shopping mall elevators..

[Andiamo]

Well Im always of the opinion that anyone with a baby stroller chose to have the baby and thery made that decision not me so why should I stand . Selfish maybe.

Nice one.

No 'maybe selfish' about it...... Definitely I would say.

Sad to see that this kind of attitude is not only alive and kicking, but also endorsed by another poster above!

Of course, people choose to have babies or not but is it not just common decency and courtesy to offer a seat to pregnant ladies/people with babies/elderly people etc etc???? What kind of a world do you wish to live in? I for one, would prefer a caring society where people still look out for each other.

Polecat - sorry to hear of the numerous occasions where nobody offered you a seat.... I am shocked as when I travel on the BTS (regularly) , one thing I love about living in Thailand, is the small acts of kindness that I witness on the BTS/buses where people (including myself) DO give up their seats.

Long may the polite, considerate people reign over the BTS and may the ignormouses 'learn' from their betters and more educated BTS passengers!

Edited June 25, 2008 by Andiamo

[Bagwan]

Manners maketh man - or so I was taught. Without good manners and consideration for others we'd all be savages.

[lardy]

Well Im always of the opinion that anyone with a baby stroller chose to have the baby and thery made that decision not me so why should I stand . Selfish maybe.

Nice one.

No 'maybe selfish' about it...... Definitely I would say.

Sad to see that this kind of attitude is not only alive and kicking, but also endorsed by another poster above!

Of course, people choose to have babies or not but is it not just common decency and courtesy to offer a seat to pregnant ladies/people with babies/elderly people etc etc???? What kind of a world do you wish to live in? I for one, would prefer a caring society where people still look out for each other.

Polecat - sorry to hear of the numerous occasions where nobody offered you a seat.... I am shocked as when I travel on the BTS (regularly) , one thing I love about living in Thailand, is the small acts of kindness that I witness on the BTS/buses where people (including myself) DO give up their seats.

Long may the polite, considerate people reign over the BTS and may the ignormouses 'learn' from their betters and more educated BTS passengers!

I like to park my car across two spaces in car parks too as i get sick of the dents in my car doors from those nice people with their prams shopping trolleys etc etc