Himmapan Samui

[Boater]

interesting article, thanks

[Boater]

also maybe they may start building something

[LaoPo]

also maybe they may start building something

I hope not...

"Fareps Himmapan Beach Samui" http://www.fareps.com/index.html

says:

1. Unique SIPPS opportunity

2. Mortgages available...

3. Buy-to-let hotels

further in the web they claim: "28 or 40 days days personal usage per annum"

BUT: the article in the Financial Times says:

"One of the strictest stipulations (in SIPPS) is that investors cannot make use of the hotel room they purchase."

from: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0877a6be-5ff0-11...?nclick_check=1

Furthermore:

"Fareps, for example, is targeting occupancy levels of more than 82 per cent, which it says will provide investors with an annual yield of 14 per cent. The company will provide a guaranteed yield of 8 per cent for the first two years on the assumption that occupancy will be 55 per cent or above."

Fareps is able to GUARANTEE 8%* (GBP 14,744 per year = GBP 29,488 for 2 years GUARANTEED !)

That alone says something how much profit they're aiming to make.

* IF occupancy will be 55% or more.

WELL, let me tell you that NO single hotel on Samui can ever reach a -year around- occupancy of 55%, let alone 82%

My opinion? a scam

LaoPo

[MSingh]

I have been asked by a friend regarding possible investment in this place.

I do not know the area and I rarely come into this sub-forum, but it would appear that most of you are rather sceptical regarding this development, would I be right in suggesting you guys on the pulse would say it is a no-brainer and to leave well alone?

Cheers

Moss

Simple answer we might all be really wrong.

But use simple check list.

1.What other projects have the developers sold and when were they sold?

2.What projects that they have sold are being built?

3.Can I see a completed a similar even smaller project?

4. Check the quality of the complete projects!!!

5.This is the biggest proposed develpment on Samui, double check pionts 1,2,3 & 4 again.

Common sense would say that if you were to buy into such a big development yo may want to see what previous work was like.

Well good luck.

Maybe you might like my project above at Maenam beach!! LOL

There certainly are a lot of people on this Forum who claim to be experts & i believe you're wasted spending so much of your time on these Internet Foums when you Guys have Crystal Balls that are so accurate & that i'd like to borrow for a while..

I didn't mean that at you specifically maipenrai but to answer your question, there is a Development in Bophut called Bophut Residence that these same Guys are building, it is still on the flat land that takes you up onto the Mountain in Bophut & appear to be nearly finished including Infrastructure which they installing within the last month or so.

Seems to be many Houses/Villa's, anywhere between 40 & 60 at a guess & quite a lot of them appear to be finished or nearly finished.

I am certainly not defending these Guy but i do however not really like when people try to dish dirt on others when it isn't, or at least doesn't appear to be justified or accurate, as it would appear to be with them building this Development i write of.

& the reason i write this is in fact because i have double checked your points 1,2,3 & 4 this is what i found out..

[PoorSucker]

Just another timeshare.

Ask one of the guys on beach road for a scrap ticket and you will win a "prize".

Good luck

[Maipenrai007]

I have been asked by a friend regarding possible investment in this place.

I do not know the area and I rarely come into this sub-forum, but it would appear that most of you are rather sceptical regarding this development, would I be right in suggesting you guys on the pulse would say it is a no-brainer and to leave well alone?

Cheers

Moss

Simple answer we might all be really wrong.

But use simple check list.

1.What other projects have the developers sold and when were they sold?

2.What projects that they have sold are being built?

3.Can I see a completed a similar even smaller project?

4. Check the quality of the complete projects!!!

5.This is the biggest proposed develpment on Samui, double check pionts 1,2,3 & 4 again.

Common sense would say that if you were to buy into such a big development yo may want to see what previous work was like.

Well good luck.

Maybe you might like my project above at Maenam beach!! LOL

There certainly are a lot of people on this Forum who claim to be experts & i believe you're wasted spending so much of your time on these Internet Foums when you Guys have Crystal Balls that are so accurate & that i'd like to borrow for a while..

I didn't mean that at you specifically maipenrai but to answer your question, there is a Development in Bophut called Bophut Residence that these same Guys are building, it is still on the flat land that takes you up onto the Mountain in Bophut & appear to be nearly finished including Infrastructure which they installing within the last month or so.

Seems to be many Houses/Villa's, anywhere between 40 & 60 at a guess & quite a lot of them appear to be finished or nearly finished.

I am certainly not defending these Guy but i do however not really like when people try to dish dirt on others when it isn't, or at least doesn't appear to be justified or accurate, as it would appear to be with them building this Development i write of.

& the reason i write this is in fact because i have double checked your points 1,2,3 & 4 this is what i found out..

I have heard of that development, when was the expected completion?

Well I'll eat my words.

If this development does end up happening(and the others that they are involved with) hopefully they do it well and make it work for the better of the Island.

There are alot of projects that have gone sour over the last few years that have dented the reputation of the Island a little.

I guess time will tell.

Good Luck to them!

[Samuian]

"Fareps, for example, is targeting occupancy levels of more than 82 per cent, which it says will provide investors with an annual yield of 14 per cent. The company will provide a guaranteed yield of 8 per cent for the first two years on the assumption that occupancy will be 55 per cent or above."

Fareps is able to GUARANTEE 8%* (GBP 14,744 per year = GBP 29,488 for 2 years GUARANTEED !)

That alone says something how much profit they're aiming to make.

* IF occupancy will be 55% or more.

WELL, let me tell you that NO single hotel on Samui can ever reach a -year around- occupancy of 55%, let alone 82%

My opinion? a scam

LaoPo

Anybody read the fine print already, doesn't it mention PROJECTED Figures are: ..........

But then anybody interested in a new business?

"Tour the islands vacant/for rent/lease/ sale real estate"!

this year accomodation on samui faces at least a 20% decline, not to mention loss!

[Boater]

well i actually met with the True owner of this project the other day, Cool Blue is not related at all to this project, just the same marketing agents.

The owner is a very wealthy Thai, with a lot of money and completed projects, but i am not sure why they have not promoted this?, i will try and gain more information, but i know 75 units have sold already.........

If the project starts construction with fully paid up capital to complete the project, then there should be no worry, as there other projects have all been constructed even if no one buys off plan....

Boater

[LaoPo]

well i actually met with the True owner of this project the other day, Cool Blue is not related at all to this project, just the same marketing agents.

The owner is a very wealthy Thai, with a lot of money and completed projects, but i am not sure why they have not promoted this?, i will try and gain more information, but i know 75 units have sold already.........

If the project starts construction with fully paid up capital to complete the project, then there should be no worry, as there other projects have all been constructed even if no one buys off plan....

Boater

Excuse me, but I don't understand what you're talking about.

Are you talking about Cool Blue (of which the owner is a wealthy Thai, as you claim) ?

If so, I don't understand that they've already sold 75 units as the Cool Blue project has 34 Villas, each Baht 25.000.000 (Million) but if one is able to buy off plan it's just Baht 19.000.000*

So: what are you talking about, please ?

Apart from that I guarantee that not only this project will not succeed but other projects as well, simply because the point is that:

there are NO buyers at the moment, NOT on Samui, NOT in Thailand, NOT in Europe, NOT in the USA and NOT in the Caribbean; exceptions** accepted...

The NORMAL real estate market is flat on it's face and asking prices are diving, all over the world, let alone the 2nd house/villa/condo market; IT'S DEAD !

* http://www.coolbluesamui.com/prices.html

** a friend of my brother has a request from a Russian Billionaire to search for a large villa on Ibiza; the house has to have access to the sea (which is difficult to find on Ibiza). Budget ? 18-20 Million Euro OR 28-31 Million US$

Last year another large villa on a small island (Isla de sa Ferradura; Ibiza) but with a connection to the coast of Ibiza was sold (by a Dutchman) for € 33 Million***...also to a Russian chap.

But these type of buyers are a very small minority and always will be.

*** http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http...ficial%26sa%3DG

A nice story about this house is that last year the wife (or girlfriend ?) of the new owner wished to fly per helicopter to the house to talk to the architect but couldn't land on the small beach next to the island because there were people on the beach.....she ordered her staff to pay everyone on that beach € 1.000/each to leave the beach for 1 hour...they did, and she left 45 minutes later again after her talk with the architect........how more crazy can it be ?

LaoPo

Edited August 4, 2008 by LaoPo

[highdiver]

lao Po

while I agree and enjoy reading your posts. this time I beg to differ.

1. as boater said Cool blue is just marketing the above project the real owner is a Thai.

2. the real estate market is indeed taking a dive in the west but not so in Asia. (with out being specific.) the past 3 years as we discussed ib the economy forum.. there has been a huge flow of capital from the west to the east. this has made many people in the east very rich and a rapid growth of middle class where it was never before. a lot of capital is venturing into real estate in Asia.

you need to remember that with in 4-5 hours of flight time there are 2/3 of people on this world(china and India). and they are looking for investments as well in holiday destination close to home.

Here in Samui I noticed that prices not only not go down but go up all the time. houses are getting more an more expensive and land value is soaring..

i own a few properties in Samui.(not for sale!!!) but i do try and check from time to time how much neighboring plots or properties in the vicinity are sold or offered on the market. and prices are UP all the time...

3. there are many hotels that have over 80% yearly occupancy in Samui. i wont hassle you wth the names but if you find this interesting. Samui hotel association will be happy to provide you with details.

Edited August 4, 2008 by highdiver

[Boater]

sorry for the misunderstanding, i mean that cool blue and Himmipan are NOT owned by the same people, they are just marketed by the same company

[koheesti]

Facilities include:

• Over 100 metres beach frontage

• Good soft golden sand beach

• Swimmable beach

• ...

Someone's smoking crack. You gotta be nuts to swim off Bangrak. I don't know what that brown stuff is floating in the water. It might be some kind of sea moss (if there is such a thing) but it sure looks like s***. And with all the garbage like plastic bags, dead fish, red bull bottles and toothbrushes how can anyone swim in that?

[Samuian]

..... it sure looks like s***. And with all the garbage like plastic bags, dead fish, red bull bottles and toothbrushes how can anyone swim in that?

Well for this buying price they employ a local chap on the beach who pays other local chaps, 1000 Baht and they clean it all up!

That people who paid all this money can have a swim in clean waters.... and a couple a thousands will be handed over to the street cleaner, the Tessaban, the.... the.....well they just keep on paying... the boys off... now they have improved the road at Laem Din Market , no they have upgraded it to an Avenue! There will be flowering trees and lawns everywhere!

It is an investors paradise!

Edited August 5, 2008 by Samuian

[Boater]

<H6 itxtvisited="1">Own your own slice of paradise</H6>Monday, August 4, 2008

Caribbean credit: A one-bed apartment at the Crane hotel in Barbados costs £274,000 and its beach was voted one of the top ten in the world

Credit crunch? What credit crunch? While most of us may be feeling the pinch as fuel and food costs rise – and let's face it, holidays are usually the first thing to be axed – hotel groups all over the world are encouraging people to buy their own slice of their properties.

As opposed to timeshares – where you only get limited and designated visiting times and then hand the property back when your lease is up – with 'condo' or 'apart' hotels, you get to own the deeds, bricks and mortar, and have the full service of a regular hotel when you visit. And if you do start to feel the crunch, you can rent out your room, suite or villa when you're not there via the hotel management company.

Tim Moore, partner at Far East Property Solutions, the team responsible for Himmapan Beach Samui, a buy-to-let resort in Thailand, says: 'Buy-to-let hotel investments offer a great way to generate income and are less hassle than trying to manage and let out a traditional holiday home. The key to success is to ensure the hotel has high occupancy rates all year round – look for a great location with a long tourist season and high numbers of visitors.

'Some buy-to-let hotels may also qualify for Self Invested Personal Pension (SIPP) inclusion, so British investors could benefit from up to 40 per cent tax relief as well as exemption from the 18 per cent capital gains tax.'

Here are some of the best…

Goldeneye, Orcabessa, Jamaica

The most famous of them all. Ian Fleming's former home (and where he wrote many of the Bond books) has been a boutique hotel owned by luxury chain Island Outpost for some years – and now a set of luxury residences is being built on the site on Jamaica's north coast. Residents should be able to move in next August.

Prices: From $650,000 (£327,000) for a one-bed Bond Suite with plunge pool to $3.2m (£1.6m) for a four-bed lagoon villa.

www.goldeneyedevelopment.com

The Malkai, Barka, Oman

Dubai is so yesterday. Oman is set to take its title as the jewel of the Middle East – even more so thanks to Sultan Qaboos bin Said issuing a 2006 decree allowing foreigners to own property. The Malkai, set for completion in 2010, is a super-exclusive development and country club that will consist of 101 villas and 92 two-bed suites managed by the GHM group owned by hotelier Adrian Zecha.

Prices: from $1.3m (£650,000) for a suite, $4.4m (£2.2m) for villas.

www.themalkai.com

Champneys, Marbella, Spain

The award-winning British spa and hotel group is opening its first spa resort overseas in the hills above Marbella on the Costa del Sol. The resort, consisting of 48 apartments and 24 penthouses, will see a 'modern Moorish' design by Granada architects Paco Pastor and Alfonso Bermejo when it opens in 2010.

Prices: €633,186 (£505,462) for an apartment and €772,752 (£612,035) for a penthouse.

www.champneysmarbella.com

Les Terrasses d'Agadir, Agadir, Morocco

Set for completion by the end of next year, Les Terrasses d'Agadir will be a four-star complex of 147 hotel rooms, a restaurant, a spa and two pools, a stone's throw from Kings Palace in downtown Agadir. The city, on Morocco's Atlantic coast, is undergoing significant development with a 500-berth marina recently completed.

Prices: Apartments from €109,800 (£87,000) to €202,520 (£160,000).

The Crane, Barbados

The main body of The Crane was built in 1887 and expanded in the late 1990s. Many of these properties are designed so any residential income helps cover some costs rather than allowing the owner to make huge profits. The rental pool at The Crane, however, gives 90 per cent of revenue back to the owner. The hotel's beach has been voted one of the top ten in the world.

Prices: One-beds from $545,000 (£274,000), three-bed penthouse $2,795,000 (£1.4m).

www.thecrane.com

Château de La Redorte, Languedoc, France

If you can't afford a whole French chateau to yourself, how about part of one? Château de La Redorte is at the heart of the village La Redorte on the banks of the Canal du Midi and was last restored in 1840. Now owned by Garrigae, the current refurbishment and building of two 'dependence' buildings will see 42 apartments go on the market.

Prices: 52sq m apartments start at €258,000 (£204,000).

www.garrigae.com

Jumby Bay Resort, Antigua

Another chance to own a private part of the Caribbean comes at Antigua's Jumby Bay Resort. Set on a private island and managed by Rosewood Hotels, you'd have to pay a fair old price for one of the new houses being added to the resort (there are already 19 houses and 22 villas built) – prices start at £7million. You do, however, get your own pools, housekeeper, chef and gardener. The new buildings will be ready next year.

Prices: £2m for villas, £7m for houses.

www.jumbybayrealestate.com

source - http://www.metro.co.uk/travel/article.html...mp;in_page_id=5

[Samuian]

It escapes my most intense fantasies how the places mentioned above fit anywhere into a comparison with "the Paradise Island of Ko Samui"?

I can see that a broker wishes to see this.... but that is a absolute different story!

[Boater]

also note they have changed name from Samui Property Solutions to Far East Property Solutions

[LaoPo]

lao Po

while I agree and enjoy reading your posts. this time I beg to differ.

1. as boater said Cool blue is just marketing the above project the real owner is a Thai.

2. the real estate market is indeed taking a dive in the west but not so in Asia. (with out being specific.) the past 3 years as we discussed ib the economy forum.. there has been a huge flow of capital from the west to the east. this has made many people in the east very rich and a rapid growth of middle class where it was never before. a lot of capital is venturing into real estate in Asia.

you need to remember that with in 4-5 hours of flight time there are 2/3 of people on this world(china and India). and they are looking for investments as well in holiday destination close to home.

Here in Samui I noticed that prices not only not go down but go up all the time. houses are getting more an more expensive and land value is soaring..

i own a few properties in Samui.(not for sale!!!) but i do try and check from time to time how much neighboring plots or properties in the vicinity are sold or offered on the market. and prices are UP all the time...

3. there are many hotels that have over 80% yearly occupancy in Samui. i wont hassle you wth the names but if you find this interesting. Samui hotel association will be happy to provide you with details.

1. OK, understood.

2. That might have been Highdiver but since a few months (and I'm talking 2-3 months here) the situation in the world has gone worse, dramatically. The time that people were standing in line to buy expensive 2nd houses, also on Samui, is over and I KNOW that there are people with a lot of money in S'pore/HK/China/Japan/S Korea etc. but I guarantee you that nobody is buying.

Especially the Eastern people are VERY aware that there is a very difficult economical situation around the corner, possibly a recession in a number of countries and have their hands full, managing their own butt.

Didn't you read that Phuket tourism is DOWN -17% in the first 3 months of this year ? That is high season !

ASKING prices may still go up as you mentioned but the question is: are buyers buying for those insane prices ? I think not.

Looking at the various real estate websites on Samui and I see hundreds and hundreds of 10M+ houses, for sale already a long time.

Personally I know a couple who's trying to sell their property (2 houses + land) now for more than 3 years.

A sellers' market ? I think not.

It's a BUYERS' market, for people with enough available cash, and that's worldwide, also on Samui.

Embrace yourself for difficult times and I guarantee that the real estate market (also on Samui) will dive even further.

3. I still find it very difficult to believe that there are many hotels with an occupancy rate of 80%+. That means that those hotels are 100% fully booked on almost 300 days a year including rainy and bad seasons ?

I hope for these hotels I'm wrong....

But tourism will also drop to Samui, substantially. It's a matter of a few months that you will hear hundreds of owners of restaurants, bars, hotels etc. complain.

That's happening already RIGHT NOW in Europe...

Again: embrace yourselves.

LaoPo

Edited August 5, 2008 by LaoPo

[highdiver]

lao Po

while I agree and enjoy reading your posts. this time I beg to differ.

1. as boater said Cool blue is just marketing the above project the real owner is a Thai.

2. the real estate market is indeed taking a dive in the west but not so in Asia. (with out being specific.) the past 3 years as we discussed ib the economy forum.. there has been a huge flow of capital from the west to the east. this has made many people in the east very rich and a rapid growth of middle class where it was never before. a lot of capital is venturing into real estate in Asia.

you need to remember that with in 4-5 hours of flight time there are 2/3 of people on this world(china and India). and they are looking for investments as well in holiday destination close to home.

Here in Samui I noticed that prices not only not go down but go up all the time. houses are getting more an more expensive and land value is soaring..

i own a few properties in Samui.(not for sale!!!) but i do try and check from time to time how much neighboring plots or properties in the vicinity are sold or offered on the market. and prices are UP all the time...

3. there are many hotels that have over 80% yearly occupancy in Samui. i wont hassle you wth the names but if you find this interesting. Samui hotel association will be happy to provide you with details.

1. OK, understood.

2. That might have been Highdiver but since a few months (and I'm talking 2-3 months here) the situation in the world has gone worse, dramatically. The time that people were standing in line to buy expensive 2nd houses, also on Samui, is over and I KNOW that there are people with a lot of money in S'pore/HK/China/Japan/S Korea etc. but I guarantee you that nobody is buying.

Especially the Eastern people are VERY aware that there is a very difficult economical situation around the corner, possibly a recession in a number of countries and have their hands full, managing their own butt.

Didn't you read that Phuket tourism is DOWN -17% in the first 3 months of this year ? That is high season !

ASKING prices may still go up as you mentioned but the question is: are buyers buying for those insane prices ? I think not.

Looking at the various real estate websites on Samui and I see hundreds and hundreds of 10M+ houses, for sale already a long time.

Personally I know a couple who's trying to sell their property (2 houses + land) now for more than 3 years.

A sellers' market ? I think not.

It's a BUYERS' market, for people with enough available cash, and that's worldwide, also on Samui.

Embrace yourself for difficult times and I guarantee that the real estate market (also on Samui) will dive even further.

3. I still find it very difficult to believe that there are many hotels with an occupancy rate of 80%+. That means that those hotels are 100% fully booked on almost 300 days a year including rainy and bad seasons ?

I hope for these hotels I'm wrong....

But tourism will also drop to Samui, substantially. It's a matter of a few months that you will hear hundreds of owners of restaurants, bars, hotels etc. complain.

That's happening already RIGHT NOW in Europe...

Again: embrace yourselves.

LaoPo

once again I beg to differ.

As per tourist statistics:

The Airports of Thailand Public Company Limited, which manages Phuket International Airport, have informed Andaman News about their latest statistics up to May 2008. They showed a total of 18,744 aircraft movements, up 9.81% from 2007. The total numbers of arriving, departing and transit passengers in the first 5 months of the year, was 2,855,750 showing an increase of 13.56% compared to the same 5 months in 2007: This year still shows the highest ever numbers at Phuket. The total freight showed 8,695 tons in and out, a 3.24 % increase.

Meanwhile Krabi International Airport, under the Civil Aviation Department, also reported its January to May 2008 figures, with with a total of 3,240 aircraft movements or 14.58% decrease compared to 2007: but the total numbers of passengers arriving and departing, with no transits, was 443,450 showing an increase 13.08% compared to the same 5 months in 2007: again these are still the highest numbers of passengers ever at Krabi.

Samui airport statistics have not come out yet but BKK airways have reported on different meeting on the island that they are up from last year and that the airport is handling more passengers since thai airways joined the route.

As per housing sales:

the following was published in the nation 5 days ago..

huket, Pattaya, Hua Hin show rise in demand despite overall downturn. This year, the property market will likely grow 3-5 per cent, says Real Estate Information Centre general director Samma Kitsin. He said although the property sector in the greater Bangkok area had declined, the overall market was supported by growth in tourist destinations.

Samma said the property market showed a slight drop in the first half of the year following a rise in construction costs and decline in consumers’ purchasing power. However, demand for residential property in Phuket, Pattaya and Hua Hin has shown strong growth.

He also said home-buyers were likely to make their buying decisions before the current tax-incentive package expires next March 30. “At present, local and foreign buyers receive a tax benefit. Due to this, the number of residential-property buyers, especially foreign investors wanting to buy retirement homes in beach destinations, is expected to rise,” Samma said.

A survey conducted by The Nation showed that a number of residential projects in Phuket, Pattaya, and Hua Hin had sold out even at prices of up to Bt10 million a unit. Supharat Group managing director Sumeth Sukahanpatharam, who launched the Pran-a-Luxe luxury-villa project in Hua Hin, said demand for retirement and second homes in that town from both local and foreign buyers had shown strong growth. “Our project, worth Bt660 million, has 47 villas starting at Bt10.5 million a unit. We’ve already sold nearly half of the project’s value,” he said.

Research conducted by CB Richard Ellis shows demand for a luxury residence at beach destinations like Pattaya, Phuket and Hua Hin has risen.

In Pattaya, a number of recently launched projects fall into this category, including The Cove, The Spinnaker and Northpoint projects. About 30 per cent of units in low-rise condominium projects have been sold. Among low-rise projects, the highest sales rates have been seen in units priced at or under Bt5 million inside Pattaya town.

Overall sales for grade-A condominium projects in Pattaya stood at just under 40 per cent for the second quarter. Combined existing and future supply is roughly 3,500 units, but only half of these have been launched since the beginning of last year - a factor in the overall low sales rate. The highest sales rates have been achieved at cheaper projects priced at or under Bt5 million.

In Phuket, demand for residential property has grown, especially in the high-end market, ever since the government announced plans to upgrade Phuket Airport by 2010. Infrastructure improvements have also helped fuel demand for property in Phuket, which has three existing marinas and another three slated to be completed soon.

Written by Somluck Srimalee

Published on The Nation - nationmultimedia.com

As for Samui.

the hotels here have a different "break even point" then in the west. while in most western countries a hotel will need 55-70% occupancy for a break even point. in Thailand many hotels are based on a lower point thus allowing them to operate and profit even with lower ocupency.

in a few months time all Samui will complain as they do every year during the rain season when there are no tourists this last for about 3-4 weeks and then its peak season again

the man difference is from 2-3 years ago is that now the tourist are not only in chaweng and lamai but are more spread out in areas that before did not offer hotels.

also an increasing number of tourists are preferring to rent those high class villas.

As for Samui realestate.

there are many reality projects built in samui some more successful then others and i know you that there are houses on the market that have not been sold for a long time .. the reason may vary..

in my opinion its very simple if you sell at the right price someone will buy. but if you are looking for a fool who will pay you 800% profit of what the house cost you then you need to wait a little.

i have seen houses here that I know for a fact were bought 3 years ago asking for 3 or 4 times the amount. so potential buyers shop around and find a better deal.

many new projects are now offering a good deal on a nice house or ressidence that is a fraction of what it would cost in Europe.

3 months ago i had the pleasure of visiting Holland and was shocked bu the sale prices and rental prices.

for the same price of a very small old runed down apartment in Amsterdam you can get a relay nice new house is Samui.

for the same rental of the apartment above you can rent a house pay a live in maid and all expenses and live happily in samui.

there is also a new market wich those of living here have noticed developing and that is the Russian market. over the past year they seem to be getting more and more of them buying houses and apartments.

So when the big crisis hits Europe and it will happen soon.... you can come to stay in Samui. it will be really nice to have you over.

[southwest19]

1. OK, understood.

2. That might have been Highdiver but since a few months (and I'm talking 2-3 months here) the situation in the world has gone worse, dramatically. The time that people were standing in line to buy expensive 2nd houses, also on Samui, is over and I KNOW that there are people with a lot of money in S'pore/HK/China/Japan/S Korea etc. but I guarantee you that nobody is buying.

Especially the Eastern people are VERY aware that there is a very difficult economical situation around the corner, possibly a recession in a number of countries and have their hands full, managing their own butt.

Didn't you read that Phuket tourism is DOWN -17% in the first 3 months of this year ? That is high season !

ASKING prices may still go up as you mentioned but the question is: are buyers buying for those insane prices ? I think not.

Looking at the various real estate websites on Samui and I see hundreds and hundreds of 10M+ houses, for sale already a long time.

Personally I know a couple who's trying to sell their property (2 houses + land) now for more than 3 years.

A sellers' market ? I think not.

It's a BUYERS' market, for people with enough available cash, and that's worldwide, also on Samui.

Embrace yourself for difficult times and I guarantee that the real estate market (also on Samui) will dive even further.

3. I still find it very difficult to believe that there are many hotels with an occupancy rate of 80%+. That means that those hotels are 100% fully booked on almost 300 days a year including rainy and bad seasons ?

I hope for these hotels I'm wrong....

But tourism will also drop to Samui, substantially. It's a matter of a few months that you will hear hundreds of owners of restaurants, bars, hotels etc. complain.

That's happening already RIGHT NOW in Europe...

Again: embrace yourselves.

LaoPo

I disagree with your doom and gloom outlook though the world economy is going through some difficult times it does not neccesary mean that the worldwide real estate market has ground to a halt.

I no little about the Himmapan project and don't wish to speculate but I can certainly comment on my own project and recent experiences. In the last six months we have sold 13 houses and 3 of those sales have been in the last 3 weeks if anything I would say enquiries have acually picked up in recent weeks.

Our project is well funded, in a superb location and we have very realistic sales prices also we have over 200 construction workers on site actually building. Please pm me and visit my sales office i would be only too pleased to show you my project and take you up to the site and show you the work in progress.

As Highdiver mentioned there are various reasons why some properties don't sell i.e. price, bad location, poor marketing, poor construction, no market research carried out to see if there is actually a market for what they are building and I could go on and on.

Sorry if I don't share your doomsday outlook and hopefully if you pay me a visit I can cheer you up a little.

[Boater]

http://www.gulfweeklyworldwide.com/article...p;Article=19914

Praising samui

[highdiver]

back to the initial thread.

i don't really know hipman and what they are planing but if they follow Southwest advise and do a proper project and market t for a value for money price then they will have a great project.

for the record I am not in real estate and i have no interest in this project.

[LaoPo]

once again I beg to differ.

As per tourist statistics:

The Airports of Thailand Public Company Limited, which manages Phuket International Airport, have informed Andaman News about their latest statistics up to May 2008. They showed a total of 18,744 aircraft movements, up 9.81% from 2007. The total numbers of arriving, departing and transit passengers in the first 5 months of the year, was 2,855,750 showing an increase of 13.56% compared to the same 5 months in 2007: This year still shows the highest ever numbers at Phuket. The total freight showed 8,695 tons in and out, a 3.24 % increase.

Meanwhile Krabi International Airport, under the Civil Aviation Department, also reported its January to May 2008 figures, with with a total of 3,240 aircraft movements or 14.58% decrease compared to 2007: but the total numbers of passengers arriving and departing, with no transits, was 443,450 showing an increase 13.08% compared to the same 5 months in 2007: again these are still the highest numbers of passengers ever at Krabi.

Samui airport statistics have not come out yet but BKK airways have reported on different meeting on the island that they are up from last year and that the airport is handling more passengers since thai airways joined the route.

When I wrote -17% for Phuket tourism, that was based on a report from Phuketwan, quoting the TAT;please see the link below:

It is indeed very odd that your figures talk about 2.855,750 passenger movements (divided by 2 is 1,4 Million tourists in the first 5 months) whilst TAT speaks about 784.000 tourist (both Thai and foreign) for the first 3 months.

Something must be wrong either way.

http://phuketwan.com/article/tourism/phuke...ownturn-feared/

and:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Phuket-Touri...tu-t198179.html

As per housing sales:

the following was published in the nation 5 days ago..

huket, Pattaya, Hua Hin show rise in demand despite overall downturn. This year, the property market will likely grow 3-5 per cent, says Real Estate Information Centre general director Samma Kitsin. He said although the property sector in the greater Bangkok area had declined, the overall market was supported by growth in tourist destinations.

Samma said the property market showed a slight drop in the first half of the year following a rise in construction costs and decline in consumers’ purchasing power. However, demand for residential property in Phuket, Pattaya and Hua Hin has shown strong growth.

He also said home-buyers were likely to make their buying decisions before the current tax-incentive package expires next March 30. “At present, local and foreign buyers receive a tax benefit. Due to this, the number of residential-property buyers, especially foreign investors wanting to buy retirement homes in beach destinations, is expected to rise,” Samma said.

A survey conducted by The Nation showed that a number of residential projects in Phuket, Pattaya, and Hua Hin had sold out even at prices of up to Bt10 million a unit. Supharat Group managing director Sumeth Sukahanpatharam, who launched the Pran-a-Luxe luxury-villa project in Hua Hin, said demand for retirement and second homes in that town from both local and foreign buyers had shown strong growth. “Our project, worth Bt660 million, has 47 villas starting at Bt10.5 million a unit. We’ve already sold nearly half of the project’s value,” he said.

Research conducted by CB Richard Ellis shows demand for a luxury residence at beach destinations like Pattaya, Phuket and Hua Hin has risen.

In Pattaya, a number of recently launched projects fall into this category, including The Cove, The Spinnaker and Northpoint projects. About 30 per cent of units in low-rise condominium projects have been sold. Among low-rise projects, the highest sales rates have been seen in units priced at or under Bt5 million inside Pattaya town.

Overall sales for grade-A condominium projects in Pattaya stood at just under 40 per cent for the second quarter. Combined existing and future supply is roughly 3,500 units, but only half of these have been launched since the beginning of last year - a factor in the overall low sales rate. The highest sales rates have been achieved at cheaper projects priced at or under Bt5 million.

In Phuket, demand for residential property has grown, especially in the high-end market, ever since the government announced plans to upgrade Phuket Airport by 2010. Infrastructure improvements have also helped fuel demand for property in Phuket, which has three existing marinas and another three slated to be completed soon.

Written by Somluck Srimalee

Published on The Nation - nationmultimedia.com

My comment to the above is that such articles have to be taken with a bag of salt, not just a grain, because they are fed with info/promotion from real estate companies. It can't be consumed as real truth, can it ?

As for Samui.

the hotels here have a different "break even point" then in the west. while in most western countries a hotel will need 55-70% occupancy for a break even point. in Thailand many hotels are based on a lower point thus allowing them to operate and profit even with lower ocupency.

in a few months time all Samui will complain as they do every year during the rain season when there are no tourists this last for about 3-4 weeks and then its peak season again

the man difference is from 2-3 years ago is that now the tourist are not only in chaweng and lamai but are more spread out in areas that before did not offer hotels.

also an increasing number of tourists are preferring to rent those high class villas.

I hope I'm wrong for the hotels' sake but more than 80% occupancy (300+ days out of 365) for ''many hotels'' is still outrageous in my opinion; but hey, who am I ?

As for Samui realestate.

there are many reality projects built in samui some more successful then others and i know you that there are houses on the market that have not been sold for a long time .. the reason may vary..

in my opinion its very simple if you sell at the right price someone will buy. but if you are looking for a fool who will pay you 800% profit of what the house cost you then you need to wait a little.

i have seen houses here that I know for a fact were bought 3 years ago asking for 3 or 4 times the amount. so potential buyers shop around and find a better deal.

many new projects are now offering a good deal on a nice house or ressidence that is a fraction of what it would cost in Europe.

3 months ago i had the pleasure of visiting Holland and was shocked bu the sale prices and rental prices.

for the same price of a very small old runed down apartment in Amsterdam you can get a relay nice new house is Samui.

for the same rental of the apartment above you can rent a house pay a live in maid and all expenses and live happily in samui.

there is also a new market wich those of living here have noticed developing and that is the Russian market. over the past year they seem to be getting more and more of them buying houses and apartments.

I am the last one to go into a word-fight with anyone here so I suggest we leave it here because only time will tell, won't it ?

I'm still surprised with the enormous number of houses for sale on Samui with the various agents but maybe only new houses sell ?

Of course your story about Amsterdam is correct; I know all about it since I'm an (almost ex-) investor in real estate myself. The point is that at the moment real estate is DEAD....and not just in Holland, I tell you.

Spain has a surplus of 600,000 houses....600,000...apart from the enormous numbers of houses FOR SALE (and no buyers) and the drama will unfold more and more as it will in the UK. Holland will also feel the pain but not as much because the structure of mortgages is different (long term deals only) and hardly any subprime mortgages. In my own neighbourhood there are more than 200 villas for sale for OVER € 1 Million+ (Baht 52 Million and up to 300+ Million) and countless apartments and other houses.

I just finished a meeting with a specialist....please read my lips: THERE ARE NO BUYERS, with a small exception here and there. Within 1 year 30% of the agents will go under. In Spain 70% of the agents is already bankrupt or closed.

So when the big crisis hits Europe and it will happen soon.... you can come to stay in Samui. it will be really nice to have you over.

Thank you and let me invite you for a nice dinner and drinks, ok ?

Please see my comments in BLUE, above

LaoPo

Edited August 6, 2008 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

I disagree with your doom and gloom outlook though the world economy is going through some difficult times it does not neccesary mean that the worldwide real estate market has ground to a halt.

I no little about the Himmapan project and don't wish to speculate but I can certainly comment on my own project and recent experiences. In the last six months we have sold 13 houses and 3 of those sales have been in the last 3 weeks if anything I would say enquiries have acually picked up in recent weeks.

Our project is well funded, in a superb location and we have very realistic sales prices also we have over 200 construction workers on site actually building. Please pm me and visit my sales office i would be only too pleased to show you my project and take you up to the site and show you the work in progress.

As Highdiver mentioned there are various reasons why some properties don't sell i.e. price, bad location, poor marketing, poor construction, no market research carried out to see if there is actually a market for what they are building and I could go on and on.

Sorry if I don't share your doomsday outlook and hopefully if you pay me a visit I can cheer you up a little.

Congratulations with your very prosperous sales and I mean that !

I will most certainly visit you when I'm on Samui next time; due to health reasons I can't tell yet as when that will be.

However, I am not a doom and gloom person at all; I just register what's happening in the world and I'm not -just- focused on what's going on in Samui but do follow the world economic- and financial news on an hourly and daily basis and that's why I said:

watch it...!

For everyone's sake: I HOPE I'M WRONG ON ALL ACCOUNTS.

..but I don't think so; let's talk in 1 year from now, shall we ?

LaoPo

[Netrom]

I disagree with your doom and gloom outlook though the world economy is going through some difficult times it does not neccesary mean that the worldwide real estate market has ground to a halt.

I no little about the Himmapan project and don't wish to speculate but I can certainly comment on my own project and recent experiences. In the last six months we have sold 13 houses and 3 of those sales have been in the last 3 weeks if anything I would say enquiries have acually picked up in recent weeks.

Our project is well funded, in a superb location and we have very realistic sales prices also we have over 200 construction workers on site actually building. Please pm me and visit my sales office i would be only too pleased to show you my project and take you up to the site and show you the work in progress.

As Highdiver mentioned there are various reasons why some properties don't sell i.e. price, bad location, poor marketing, poor construction, no market research carried out to see if there is actually a market for what they are building and I could go on and on.

Sorry if I don't share your doomsday outlook and hopefully if you pay me a visit I can cheer you up a little.

Congratulations with your very prosperous sales and I mean that !

I will most certainly visit you when I'm on Samui next time; due to health reasons I can't tell yet as when that will be.

However, I am not a doom and gloom person at all; I just register what's happening in the world and I'm not -just- focused on what's going on in Samui but do follow the world economic- and financial news on an hourly and daily basis and that's why I said:

watch it...!

For everyone's sake: I HOPE I'M WRONG ON ALL ACCOUNTS.

..but I don't think so; let's talk in 1 year from now, shall we ?

LaoPo

Hi,

I am new here; I found the forum by googling Himmapan. - sorry for the misspellings - but English is not my first language.

I have read all the comments about the Himmapan Beach Samui project, and my first inpression is that there are many negative thought about the project mainly because, the real etate agency here and there is "overselling" the project - by f. ex. sayning that the leese contracts are can run for ever and that kind stupidities; and that of cause shall be corrected in they marketing material unless they can proof that is the case for some strenge reason.

When that is said I think that they have done a very good job with the rest of marketing - really nice website - high Quality brochures - and branded the project together with som well known brands like Pat Cash, Quicksilver, China White etc. etc. names and brands that many "new rich" Asian people like to be linked with.

LaoPo is compleetly right when saying that times has changed dramaticly on the. 2.home market the last year, meanig that "mr. and mrs. Smith" with a budget on 100 - 200K € in no longer on the market - and therefor many developers and agents will be gone in the near future.

When that is said Himmapan was nerver ment for Mr. and Mrs. Smith but mainly for investors that is satiesfied with net yields between 8 and 12 % and there are actually many of those on the market now. Some of them was used to invest in the home markets but since that is not interesing anymore they are looking more and more towards the abroad market - espacially the ones that was smart/lucky enough to sell at the right time back home and don't want to keep the money in the bank anymore because they only get 3 - 5 % there. These are the kind of people that will purchase in the project.

I have met some of the guys behind and my impression is that they know what they are doing. They have hired a very succesfull resort manager who has run many resorts and resort chains on 4 continents the last 25 years - he have influence on the design and is also now a co-investor in the project. Also keep in mind that it will be build i 3 phases, the first one is projected to open newyear 2010 and the last phase during 2013. the first phase can operate fine with out the 2 other phases since a lot of the common facilities is located in the first phases. That means they don't expect to sell more than 900 hundered units the next couple of years; but to begin with around 180.

My forecast is: They will start build this fall - they will be able to sell all 180(around) in phase 1A and B before it is done(projected January 2010) and because the concept is thought through it will have an high occupancy with in a few year. It will mainly be Asian tourist because of the Himmapan thing which I believes is spot on for the Asian market especially Asians on honeymoon.

I know I am being optimistic compared to most people in here - but I have seen a lot of projects i my life and this is definitely one of the best konceps and masterplans I have seen.

For Samui and the investors that have all ready bought I hope I am right!

Cheers

Netrom

ps. I also so found this on the google:

I think it is a good promotion video...

[mssabai]

I heard a rumour they have gone bankrupt and were screwed over with the land titles (surprise surprise). Anyone able to verify it? I was surprised due to the massive Post advertising supplement only a couple of weeks back, but this apparently was a last push. True?? Or not??

[PoorSucker]

Wow Netrom.

Have you ever been/lived on Samui.

Bowling, cinema, 11 restaurants, Wave pool and slides.

This is a joke for us living here.

I have met some of the guys behind and my impression is that they know what they are doing.

Yes, they are scam artists. (or are you one of them)

[NHJ]

when i see the price of the units and the estimated money come back wich is 8% after two years, you'll need 25 years to have a profit...

money is better in the bank, you have profit after the first year.

[Maipenrai007]

when i see the price of the units and the estimated money come back wich is 8% after two years, you'll need 25 years to have a profit...

money is better in the bank, you have profit after the first year.

So if i buy 25 Units its a better idea I will make my profit straight away, if thats the case its really going to take off

[NHJ]

when i see the price of the units and the estimated money come back wich is 8% after two years, you'll need 25 years to have a profit...

money is better in the bank, you have profit after the first year.

So if i buy 25 Units its a better idea I will make my profit straight away, if thats the case its really going to take off

you can even buy the entire hotel, it won't change the fact your money in the bank will bring you a lot more after one year, will be immediately available if needed and very safe unlike thailand.

[Netrom]

when i see the price of the units and the estimated money come back wich is 8% after two years, you'll need 25 years to have a profit...

money is better in the bank, you have profit after the first year.

So if i buy 25 Units its a better idea I will make my profit straight away, if thats the case its really going to take off

you can even buy the entire hotel, it won't change the fact your money in the bank will bring you a lot more after one year, will be immediately available if needed and very safe unlike thailand.

If the whole project is a scam it's a really good one! And then they have also tricked DTZ - one of the biggest real estate brokers in the world. usually DTZ do some serius research before they choose to sell a project at this size. another thing is that the methode of payment, at least here in Europe, is not pointing towards a big scam - the developer will not be able to touch the payments before he handsover the unit; because the money is being put in a escrow account controlled by a third party(the biggest bank in Scandinavia).

Another thing is that just because Samui have not seen a project of this size before with all those facilities does not mean that it's not possible construct and run. I believe that some of the same opinions was said when some of the resorts in Phuket was build some years ago.

And yes Poorsucker I have bee to Samui earlier this year; and I am sure that they are not targeting citizens on Samui to be future customers...

Maybe I am naive but of cause I am very intereseted in getting any information that can indicate that this is actually a big big scam!!

cheers guys