Paranoid Question

[Jingthing]

I was just reading something about what happens to people caught overstaying (before voluntarily paying the fine).

They are jailed, deported and apparently have their passports marked persona non grata, do not ever return to Thailand.

So, what happens if such a person has assets in Thailand that they want/need to sell but cannot return to Thailand to finalize their affairs here?

I would guess people go for fresh passports which usually have new passport numbers. Would that work to allow such a person to return?

If not, wow, that is a harsh punishment (as many here have many millions of baht invested here) for what in most countries is a really minor infringement.

Edited July 12, 2008 by Jingthing

[Mario2008]

Overstay in general is not a reason do deny a person entry to Thailand again. But you can be denied for some time if it is a serious overstay.

Your assets stay yours. If you want to sell them you can sign a power of autorney to let someone else take care of matters in Thailand.

A new passport won't work. They will look at your name and date of birth etc. too.

Edited July 12, 2008 by Mario2008

[Jingthing]

Well, I just read differently in Pattaya Trader. An article there clearly states you will be person non grata for overstay if you are caught. It does not mention the time of overstay. Of course, I don't believe everything I read, thus the post. Also, if you are deported directly from prison, you certainly would not have the opportunity to sign any power of attorney papers while in Thailand, now, would you? Heck, you wouldn't even have the chance to gather your documents proving your assets. Given my personal experience with such matters, I would be surprised if a power of attorney here could be effected while outside Thailand with faxed documents. I didn't label this a paranoid question for nothing, but sometimes the "paranoid" are just more aware ...

Yes, I know the solution is DO NOT OVERSTAY or break any Thai law. However, I can imagine scenarios where overstays happen more or less innocently, and also people have been known to be framed for crimes or wrongly convicted. I realize there is little sympathy for serious criminals, but I am talking about the majority of us who do make every effort to be law abiding, who are sometimes walking on thin ice here even if we prefer to deny it.

Edited July 12, 2008 by Jingthing

[Naam]

those who overstay, are jailed and deported normally leave behind a bag of dirty laundry but not property worth millions

[Jingthing]

those who overstay, are jailed and deported normally leave behind a bag of dirty laundry but not property worth millions

Sure, perhaps most of the time. I can see that people with something to lose have a lot more motivation to keep it clean!

[bendix]

Spot on Naam. Let's face it; the type of person who will overstay is hardly going to have a 10 million property and a 1.5 million car, are they?

The overstayers I've had the misfortune to cross paths with have been virtually destitute.

[lopburi3]

I have yet to hear or any person having only overstay being placed on black list. If they fail to pay fine and have to be deported at government expense it may happen but not when they pay and leave (which is probably 99% of the cases).

[joskydive]

Have found this for you on thaivisa internet search, don't know if they have upgraded it since 2006 though:-

Friday, 29 December 2006

Thai Immigration Blacklist

PERSONS NOT WANTED IN THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND

Persona Non Grata

1. Those having no genuine and valid passport or document that can be used in lieu of a passport; or those having a genuine and valid passport or document for use in lieu of a passport without a visa issued by Royal Thai Embassies or consulates in foreign countries or by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Exceptions are aliens for whom no visa is required in certain special instances.

2. Those who have no appropriate means of earning a living once they have entered the Kingdom.

3. Those who, having entered the Kingdom to take up employment as laborers or practice other forms of manual work that require no special skill or training, or who violate the Alien Employment Act.

4. Those who are mentally unstable or who suffer from any of the diseases proscribed in the Ministerial Regulations. ©

5. Those who have not been vaccinated against smallpox or inoculated or undergone any other medical treatment for protection against contagious diseases, and have refused to have such vaccinations administered by the Immigration Bureau doctor.

6. Those who have been imprisoned by the judgment of a Thai court or by a lawful injunction, or by the judgment of the court of a foreign country, except when the penalty is for a petty offence or negligence or is specifically cited as an exception in the Ministerial Regulations.

7. Those who have exhibited behavior which would indicate possible danger to the public or the likelihood of their being a public nuisance, a threat to the peace or safety of the public, or the security of the public or the nation, including those under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign governments.

8. Those for whom there is reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom is for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of women or children, drug smuggling or other activities that are contrary to public morality.

9. Those having no money or bond as prescribed by the Minister under Section 14. (d)

10. Those categorized as persona non grata by the Minister under Section 16. (e)

11. Those who have been deported by either the Government of Thailand or that of another foreign country; those who have been sent out of the Kingdom by competent officials at the expense of the Government of Thailand unless the Minister makes an exemption on an individual, special-case basis.

c Leprosy, infectious tuberculosis, chronic elephantiasis, drug addiction, tertiary syphilis. d Reference: announcement of the Ministry of Interior, dated 8 May B.E. 2543 (A.D.2000).

(1) At least of 10,000 baht for a holder of a transit visa or "visa not required" category and visa on arrival (at least of 20,000 baht for a family).

(2) At least of 20,000 baht for a holder of a tourist visa or non-immigrant visa (at least of 40,000 baht for a family).

In instances where, for reasons of national welfare or the safeguarding of the public peace, culture, morality or welfare, or when the Minister considers it improper to allow any foreigner or group of foreigners to enter the Kingdom, the Minister shall have the power to exclude the said foreigner or group of foreigners from entering the Kingdom.

IMMIGRATION BLACKLIST - PERSONA NON GRATA

In cases of persons prohibited by the Ministry under Section 16 (foreigners who have been imprisoned for criminal offences involving work in professions or occupations that are prohibited by law, with exception made for minor offences, or offences committed through negligence), the Immigration Bureau will submit their names and histories to the Minister of Interior for a decision concerning the possible prohibition of the person or persons concerned from entering the Kingdom.

No time limitations apply in cases of persona non grata status, so that in cases where a person who is prohibited from entering the kingdom has died, his or her children may encounter problems upon attempting to enter the country, should they share a common name. In such cases, the full name and date of birth of the applicant must be checked.

Hope this clarifies what you want to know.

[Kaojai]

Yes, I know the solution is DO NOT OVERSTAY or break any Thai law. However, I can imagine scenarios where overstays happen more or less innocently, and also people have been known to be framed for crimes or wrongly convicted. I realize there is little sympathy for serious criminals, but I am talking about the majority of us who do make every effort to be law abiding, who are sometimes walking on thin ice here even if we prefer to deny it.

Do you worry about meteors striking you if you go outside or that aliens might abduct you or that pigeon poop is going to give you avian flu?

Seriously, you seem to have a chronic worst-case scenario view of life, scanning the news for anything you can find to worry about and then spinning it to extremes. How can you ever enjoy living in Thailand if you keep obsessing about imaginary problems with visa renewal or how everyone is out to get you or "schemes" to bring money into your bank account or ... the list seems endless.

You should be grateful you obviously have nothing real to worry about.

[PoorSucker]

4. Those who are mentally unstable or who suffer from any of the diseases proscribed in the Ministerial Regulations. ©

7. Those who have exhibited behavior which would indicate possible danger to the public or the likelihood of their being a public nuisance, a threat to the peace or safety of the public, or the security of the public or the nation, including those under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign governments.

So why are there still people at full moon party in Koh Phangan?

[Dave the Dude]

Yes, I know the solution is DO NOT OVERSTAY or break any Thai law. However, I can imagine scenarios where overstays happen more or less innocently, and also people have been known to be framed for crimes or wrongly convicted. I realize there is little sympathy for serious criminals, but I am talking about the majority of us who do make every effort to be law abiding, who are sometimes walking on thin ice here even if we prefer to deny it.

Do you worry about meteors striking you if you go outside or that aliens might abduct you or that pigeon poop is going to give you avian flu?

Seriously, you seem to have a chronic worst-case scenario view of life, scanning the news for anything you can find to worry about and then spinning it to extremes. How can you ever enjoy living in Thailand if you keep obsessing about imaginary problems with visa renewal or how everyone is out to get you or "schemes" to bring money into your bank account or ... the list seems endless.

You should be grateful you obviously have nothing real to worry about.

Spot on Kaojai

Jingthing, You are living in a country where it is easy to find 'problems.'

If you want some , I'm sure a few readers could 'lend you' some of their problems and who knows they might even let you keep 'em!!!

I find that some areas of Thailand are 'better than others' when finding 'problems.' A good reference source for ideas is a paper called P****** People. Mentioning no names.

Dave