Thai Troops Enter Disputed Territory On Thai-cambodian Border

[Johpa]

Pardon my wavering memory, but wasn't it about 15 or 20 years ago that Thaksin was intimately involved in Cambodian politics and was a major player in the establishment of the current Khmer government, I believe in exchange for some sort of exclusive telecommunications contract?

[bulmercke]

International military attaches flew to disputed border area

By Deutsche Presse-Agentur

Phnom Penh

A Cambodian official at Preah Vihear temple confirmed Saturday that Thai troops had stood down from a nearby disputed pagoda as a delegation of international military attaches from Vietnam and China flew in by helicopter at Cambodia's request.

A Cambodian government official - speaking on condition of anonymity - confirmed local television reports that Thai troops allegedly stationed at a Cambodian pagoda within a few hundred metres of Preah Vihear temple had moved camp to a jungle clearing.

On Saturday Cambodia's Defence Ministry flew military attaches from China and Vietnam to the temple to view a border dispute first hand, local station CTN said.

The Khmer-language private television station said the delegation was headed by Cambodian armed forces chief Sao Sokha. The official said Thai troops had now moved back.

Thailand has maintained the temple is in a disputed no-man's-land and that a Thai presence in the area was not breaching Cambodian sovereignty. Cambodia disagreed and asked for the tour by international observers.

CTN is viewed as close to the Cambodian government.

Although other international attaches including the US were

Originally rumoured to be attending, in the end they were supplied by the two Communist nations, which are also closest regional allies.

Tensions have been running high on the border since Cambodia asked UNESCO to list the temple as a World Heritage Site despite there being a dispute over a 4.6-kilometre swathe of land nearby.

UNESCO obliged earlier this month, but tensions spilled over Tuesday when Cambodia briefly detained, then released, three Thais it said had illegally crossed the border, prompting first dozens, and then hundreds of Thai troops to follow in an alleged incursion.

On Friday, Thailand warned the situation was deteriorating but Cambodia has said it is determined to seek a diplomatic solution over the disputed territory around the 11th century Hindu temple.

>>>>>>>>>

When the Cambodians get the Chinese and Vietnamese involved in this matter then it looks glaringly obvious that the Thais are in the wrong.

I guess another example of Thailand lording it over it's so-called impoverished neighbours.

[geriatrickid]

When the Cambodians get the Chinese and Vietnamese involved in this matter then it looks glaringly obvious that the Thais are in the wrong.

I guess another example of Thailand lording it over it's so-called impoverished neighbours.

I have a different interpretation;

- China has a vested interest in there being calm in SE Asia, particularly with the Olympics coming up fast. The number 1 priority for China is that nothing must disrupt the games and China's chance to shine. As well, I don't think China wants a military crisis next door. Anything that interferes with the economy is bad for business.

- Vietnam has invested a lot of blood in trying to stabilize Cambodia. The last thing it wants is more instability next door as it will interfere with Vietnam's growing economy.

Besides, with war comes refugees and neither country needs that headache.

I wonder though, which side of the fence the international community will come down on? Border disputes like this must be making lots of countries nervous because they open the doors to challenges like the current one between Japan & S. Korea, or over at the Spratt Islands. I wonder if Malaysia is getting concerned, what with a few border issues of its own with Thailand?

[thaigene2]

I applaud the TRT in being open about how to to generate mass votes in Thailand. Thaksin didn't hide things, he openly showed others what it takes and we should give him credit for it. The Democrats, on the other hand, made the mistake of camouflaging their handouts in things like road building and similar construction projects. The poor completely missed the point. They got the point when the TRT instituted its populist policies and handed over the money to them directly instead of making them work for it.

Wow. Thanks for that Tim. Any more nuggets? Thank God for Oxbridge grads and their old-money families - the "rightful" class steering all of us in the right direction. We'd be so lost otherwise. My God, what would happen if Thailand (or gads man, England) had commoners steering policy!?! Pimms would be a gonner - maybe even even strawberries at cricket?

[Nampeung]

If you Google earth the temple site some p*** has posted hundreds of photos with the headline

'A long time ago this peice of land Prasat khao phra Wihan was under the control of Thailand But it has since then been seized by the contry of Cambodia'

* Oh and can't a Mod merge these threads please? There are several running and it's hard to know where to post now

[Pierrot]

I'll show you one or ten TRT daughters and sons who I've worked with who have that opinion too. The Dems aren't a party of virtuous people by any means, but those who flock to TRT who I've had the pleasure of associating with couldn't give two rats about the poor by a factor of ten compared to the Dems ...

It seems you know more TRT people than democrats. According to what you say, they're the one who pay your salary. Actually it explains a lot. I know Thai people, they can be a bit ... with their employees. Not a nice feeling, but at least you have the intellectual superiority ...

OK, let me tell you about the Democrats. Basically, they are the same.

How they see the world :

1/ Themselves

2/ Upper class farangs. They like to think they belong to some kind of world wide elite

3/ Elephants and other endangered species. Thai loves animals ...

3/ Low class Thai. They share the same language and eat the same food. But don't get me wrong, we don't belong to the same world ...

4/ Other farangs. Ok, there may be a difference between the dirty backpacker and the english teacher, but, honnestly, they are all farangs ...

Hope that will help ....

[sriracha john]

Border tensions rise

Commerce ceases, residents prepare for evacuation

Cambodia and Thailand further increased their forces in the fifth day of a tense standoff on disputed land near an ancient Hindu temple. Some 60 shop owners have been ordered by the Army to remove their stock and leave their shops around Preah Vihear temple.

Tensions along the Thailand-Cambodian border continue to rise and fears of a military confrontation are increasing.

Shop owners from Mor-e-daeng market were told early yesterday morning to close their shops and remove stock, as the Army set up checkpoints preventing tourists, protesters, and local and foreign journalists from getting close to the disputed temple compound.

Evacuation plans for residents have been drawn up and the area can be cleared in 30 minutes, soldiers say.

A Ranger division was mobilized early yesterday morning and went shop to shop explaining it cannot be responsible for stock left on shelves in any engagement. The Army is checking and recording names of those moving out and others traveling routes in the area.

One Si Sa Ket kamnan, Veerayuth Duangkaew, says armed troops have entered the area and a lot of people have left the vicinity of the temple.

Local residents are fearful clashes with Cambodian troops are imminent. Shop owner Thonglar Cham-song, 43, doesn't expect the situation to improve anytime soon.

Police are on alert and are preparing for an evacuation. Bueng Malu superintendent Lt-Colonel Tippong Tipayakaset is worried about looting during an evacuation. "What's worrying is that in a war, while an evacuation is taking place, there will be looting. We are preparing for that."

Supreme Commander General Boonsrang Niumpradit is confident no clashes will ensue. He says everything will be done to avoid a conflict at tomorrow's bilateral negotiations with Cambodia's General Tea Ban. "Talks will be mostly about military matters and will touch on other subjects later. We already have the General Border Committee, which is composed of representatives from various organizations with the lead from the Defence Ministry.

"[Tea Ban] doesn't want an incident. Neither do we. So I reckon we can talk. The commanders on each side must try to reduce the temperature, because it's easy to lose tempers. We must carefully control that."

- The Nation

[Nampeung]

Philstone you need better advice mate

[sriracha john]

Is their any truth what my wife told me? She heard that is Farang, with Thai children, shall be drafted.

A teeny little punctuation addition with 2 small commas (made in red) can really change the meaning of your inquiry.

To directly answer your inquiry, I understand any and all males with Thai citizenship, irregardless of parental lineage, are required to register for the draft. It is the citizenship status that is important, not whether their father/mother was Belgian or Colombian.

However, whether or not they are actually picked in the draft and actually serve is often dependent upon bribing resources.

[baanthale]

"Be happy - Be poor" seems to be their message. Meanwhile the rest of their cronys will be spending their "tax savings" at Paragon tomorrow. The craven little pouting daughter brigade spending some of bureaucrat-daddy's ill-gotten booty.

I'll show you one or ten TRT daughters and sons who I've worked with who have that opinion too. The Dems aren't a party of virtuous people by any means, but those who flock to TRT who I've had the pleasure of associating with couldn't give two rats about the poor by a factor of ten compared to the Dems, unless they happen to be on the cover of Tattler magazine pretending to be good honest hi-so's, or it involves handing out blankets during the cold season with a bunch of other hi-so's.

Comments heard from the mouth of babes of the TRT clan (who know Thaksin on a personal basis) include:

- "Hi Samran, like my new Benz, my dad bought it for me..." (TRT bigwig dad had just been found guilty of asset concealment)

- "Of course with higher food prices (bought about by ethanol production) poor people are going to starve, but thats the way these things go"

- or "poor people aren't ready yet to be parliamentarians" (in disagreement that all thais - not only the ones with university degrees should be allowed to run for parliament)

I've also seen children of their cronies running money losing stores in BKK in an attempt to launder their parents ill-gotten gains. Or they just keep it offshore...

Old man river has hit in on the head - the Dems are a viticim of their own bad publicity and their high fullutin policy solutions designed to bring about both fiscal discipline in a framework of social democracy, which simply don't sell as easily to the masses (here or anywhere else in the world). Thaksin had the right idea in a few areas, and I applaud him for that too. The ground now is set though for someone else to come and take his mantle. He has awaoken the populous their electoral strength - and that is ultimately a good thing...

Don't worry Samran. If/when the cambo war starts, you will have to sign up to protect you country as a citizen On the frontline you will have the chance to meat and learn to know the normal overall TRT/PPP voters of Thailand, as they will be there to protect the interests of the well offs. Could be good to hear some other views than the once you hear in the corridors of the upper class! That is of course if you understand the lingo

[sabaijai]

The topic 'Bruised Nationalism Stirring Bad Feelings Between Thais, Cambodians, Air Force set to evacuate Thais in Cambodia' has been merged with this thread.

[sriracha john]

Scenes from the front lines from 3 sources...

Thai deminers look for mines at a Cambodian Buddhist temple complex near Preah Vihear temple in Preah Vihear province, Cambodia, Sunday, July 20, 2008. A Cambodian general said Sunday that he has little hope that upcoming talks between his government and Thailand will resolve a tense border dispute that has seen hundreds of troops face off around an ancient temple.

AP

Cambodian Buddhist monks walk pass a soldier standing guard at the Cekakiri Svarak pagoda in the compound of the Preah Vihear temple, 245km (152 miles) north of Phnom Penh, July 20, 2008 . Thailand and Cambodia sent troops and heavy guns on Saturday to their disputed border, where hundreds of soldiers faced off for a fifth day over an ancient Hindu temple.

REUTERS

A Cambodian soldier carries a shoulder-launched grenade launcher while guarding a road which leads to the ruins of Preah Vihear temple near the Thai-Cambodia border on July 20. Thailand has said that a military standoff with Phnom Penh over disputed land should be resolved through negotiations, but a top Cambodian general said he had little faith in talks.

AFP

[Nampeung]

Latest from Reuters - ANALYSIS-Temple tantrums stalk Thai-Cambodia relations

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSBKK59717

[Goshawk]

reported just a few hours ago...

[sriracha john]

More artillery pieces... more troops...

Four battalions of Thai paramilitary rangers were deployed on the Thai side of the Preah Vihear temple complex in Si Sa Ket yesterday, raising the number of Thai troops to 3,000 against an estimated 2,000 Cambodian soldiers.

Bangkok Post

=====================================================================

Now it makes sense why those particular countries embassies were asked to fly chopper recon over the temple site yesterday...

Cambodia complains to UN

More Thai troops sent to border, Security Council of the U.N. told of Thai 'interference'

The Cambodian government has launched a diplomatic offensive, complaining to the United Nations Security Council about Thai interference on its soil in the Preah Vihear temple area, where soldiers of the two countries are building up their strength.

Staff of the US, China, France, and Vietnam embassies based in Phnom Penh were also flown by helicopter from the capital to the disputed territory on the border. The US, China, and France are permanent members of the UNSC. Vietnam is Council Chairman. At the Thai border, about 300 more Thai troops equipped with grenade and rocket launchers were sent to the Phra Viharn national park yesterday to join about 2,400 soldiers in Kantharalak district in Si Sa Ket, a military source said. Thailand has deployed 105 mm artillery in the border area. The army estimated that at least 2,000 Cambodian soldiers are stationed on the Cambodian side, the source said.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/200708_News/20Jul2008_news001.php

==============================================================================

Out-gunned and now out-manned (kiss good-bye to the Cambodian commanders desire that his forces double the size of Thailand's forces to compensate for their antique weapons), Cambodia is no doubt feeling pinched....

Historically, those sort of pinches can could lead to adopting a first strike strategy....

Edited July 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[Nampeung]

Thanks so much for all the news SRJ and Goshawk

I doubt any number of talks will rescue this one

[baanthale]

So whats the deal? Are we happy now, is it a good thing to go to war with combo? Good for Thai people, good for farangs in Thailand making a living, all about a tempel... witch belongs to Cambodia. I hope PAD feels satisfied now, when Thailand is split, and on the way to war. To make problems inside the own comminity is one thing, but to pressure for a war with neighbours is just to much!

[sriracha john]

Good thing Noppadope's not in the midst of the ASEAN meeting to muck things up...

Thailand, Cambodia make pledge on border row

SINGAPORE - Thailand and Cambodia have agreed to "exert utmost efforts" to find a peaceful solution to their border stand-off at a disputed temple, Singapore's Foreign Minister George Yeo said Sunday.

"Both sides affirmed that they would abide by their ASEAN and international obligations and exert their utmost efforts to find a peaceful solution to the issue," Mr Yeo said as Southeast Asian Foreign Ministers began an annual meeting in Singapore.

"We urged both sides to exercise utmost restraint and resolve this issue amicably in the spirit of ASEAN solidarity and good neighbourliness," Mr Yeo said in a statement.

In a second statement, this time on the situation in Myanmar, Minister Yeo said the Foreign Ministers expressed their deep disappointment that Aung San Suu Kyi's detention under house arrest has been extended by the Myanmar government. *with the notable exception, no doubt, of Thailand's government which has gone on record as saying it's just fine that she's detained*

They repeated the call by the ASEAN leaders *except Samak* for her release and also that of other political detainees as part of Myanmar's national reconciliation process.

Minister Yeo added that ASEAN's foreign ministers also encouraged Myanmar to continue to work closely with UN special envoy Ibrahim Gambari to ensure an inclusive process towards national reconciliation.

- AFP

Edited July 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[ilyushin]

Pardon my wavering memory, but wasn't it about 15 or 20 years ago that Thaksin was intimately involved in Cambodian politics and was a major player in the establishment of the current Khmer government, I believe in exchange for some sort of exclusive telecommunications contract?

Not forgotten, but unkown to most.

[thaigene2]

Funny how you guys keep throwing Ajarn Pasuk's name around. Anyone who's read her material is aware that her main beef isn't with Thaksin but with the Sakdina (Class System) of Thailand - and how Thaksin simply cornered the market in some areas. That book isn't anti-Thaksin - but it sure shows how far his tentacles reached.

The Economist Magazine however hit the nail on the head last month when it pointed out this fight is simply the Thai elites having a go at each other. Sadly that post was deleted by the Mods for a variety of other reasons.

But frankly to keep positng the cover of that book above invtes readers to understand the corruption of Thailnd in general (bureaucracy and above!). You want that?

Edited July 20, 2008 by thaigene2

[sriracha john]

His various gigs and mia noi have written revealing books about their benefactor.......

[poonsin]

Actually, Cambodia sent coups first, about twice. And they close the door of that architecture. Thai didn't enter Cambodia. Cambodian soldier brought 3 Thais from Thailand's area to vihan building. Thai sent coups later to protect them. Later cambodian raise troops and weapons. Thai has to prepare to protect. The village and a small temple are in Thailand's area.

Edited July 20, 2008 by poonsin

[sbk]

Royal references have been removed. This thread will not go that direction. I hope this is clear enough. Please read the forum rules again before posting.

[Rotweiler]

Interesting that this tempest in a teapot is being following so voraciously by the farang in Thailand. Here it has yet to make ANY newscast. Current international headlines:

Obama says situation in Afghanistan is precarious for U.S. troops

5 bombs explode in northern Spain after warning call; no injuries reported

Obama to speak near Berlin's Brandenburg Gate, spokesman says

British Prime Minister Brown urges end to settlement building by Israel

Al Gore says Hillary Clinton's campaign changed perception of women

Condoleezza Rice says Obama's success is great gain for blacks

Serbia's foreign minister calls for return of ambassadors to EU countries

Activists say 9 Iranians convicted of adultery are to be stoned to death

Tropical storm Dolly forms in Caribbean sea; 4th of Atlantic hurricane season

[Nampeung]

What's your stupid point Rotweiler, it has been on Reuters, AP, AFP, BBC, guess you are in USA ... go back to bed mate

[Nampeung]

You living in some sort of void Rotweiler,

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,386762,00.html

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/20/asia/cambo.php

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...235-663,00.html

Edited July 20, 2008 by Nampeung

[jumnien]

Yes, the International Herald Tribune article by Seth Mydans is very interesting. I suggest all take a look.

[baboon]

Despite the fact this story is all over the media like a cheap suit, none of the Thais I have spoken to down here give a toss. They are far more worried about the escalating cost of living, crime etc. Is it not the same where the rest of you live?

[Plus]

I thought those problems were solved last week already.

There's a thread for it somewhere.

Thais might not talk about the temple day and night, doesn't mean they don't have an opinion.

[Farma]

Much closer to the scene, the locals are concerned this will turn into war. They’ve seen demonstrations over the past few weeks and been watching the troop movements for nearly a week. The ones who’ve spoken with the troops say the troops expect fighting to break out.