Rude To Not Become Fluent In Thai

[NoSpeakIt]

so i understand that there are obvious benefits to becoming fluent in Thai my question though is do you think it is rude to Thai people if you stay here long term without learning to speak Thai fluently? I think it would be embarrasing to meet your child's teachers and tell them you have lived here X years while not speaking fluent Thai.

I have a hard time making time to learn Thai. For awhile I had it in my IPOD, but then I realized Id much rather listen to music. I would not call it an enjoyable hobby. Yeah, I was thrilled when I went from noob to intermediate, but going from intermediate to fluent seems to have very limited benefits besides face/bragging rights.

For those who have been here many years without speaking fluently, are you embarrassed about it? Is your wife embarrassed about it?

[fred2007]

so i understand that there are obvious benefits to becoming fluent in Thai my question though is do you think it is rude to Thai people if you stay here long term without learning to speak Thai fluently? I think it would be embarrasing to meet your child's teachers and tell them you have lived here X years while not speaking fluent Thai.

I have a hard time making time to learn Thai. For awhile I had it in my IPOD, but then I realized Id much rather listen to music. I would not call it an enjoyable hobby. Yeah, I was thrilled when I went from noob to intermediate, but going from intermediate to fluent seems to have very limited benefits besides face/bragging rights.

For those who have been here many years without speaking fluently, are you embarrassed about it? Is your wife embarrassed about it?

No I am not, I am here just 1 year, I know people who have been in Thailand for about 10 years

and still can't speak Thai, Yes I realize it is handy,but I guess if they don't like you because you don't

speak Thai just speak the english word MONEY and they understand you

[baanthale]

I do not think Thais in general thinks it's rude if farangs doesn't handle their lingo, as there is many people staying here for decades without speaking a word. It can be of benefit to handle the lingo if you're looking for PR and citizen ship in the future. But on the other hand it seems you can just bypass qualifications needed like languish and other things, if you just have the right money (and moral) to buy yourself trough the system.

[Tyke]

so i understand that there are obvious benefits to becoming fluent in Thai my question though is do you think it is rude to Thai people if you stay here long term without learning to speak Thai fluently? I think it would be embarrasing to meet your child's teachers and tell them you have lived here X years while not speaking fluent Thai.

I have a hard time making time to learn Thai. For awhile I had it in my IPOD, but then I realized Id much rather listen to music. I would not call it an enjoyable hobby. Yeah, I was thrilled when I went from noob to intermediate, but going from intermediate to fluent seems to have very limited benefits besides face/bragging rights.

For those who have been here many years without speaking fluently, are you embarrassed about it? Is your wife embarrassed about it?

Yes very rude and even more embarassing. Been here 4 years and took 1 year's course at AUA and still only know a few words. Very embarassing when some Thais are amazed at my being here so long without learning the language. Problem is I find learning foreign languages very boring - always have done and cannot motivate myself. I took the course because I believe if u live somewhere long-term you should try to learn it - and I did without success. I have even a long-term live-in Thai partner (7 years) as well, which makes it doubly embarassing.

Edited July 20, 2008 by Tyke

[fred2007]

I do not think Thais in general thinks it's rude if farangs doesn't handle their lingo, as there is many people staying here for decades without speaking a word. It can be of benefit to handle the lingo if you're looking for PR and citizen ship in the future. But on the other hand it seems you can just bypass qualifications needed like languish and other things, if you just have the right money (and moral) to buy yourself trough the system.

Well I guess money is the most important thing in Thailand but don't get me wrong I love Thailand and I am married to a lovely thai women for over 5 years now but money is number one

[solent01]

Not at all, I can speak Thai know, but just at an intermediate level, much like yourself. What I have found is that the more I understand, the more I realise that even Thais speaking to Thais don't understand what each other are talking about, really, no joke, try running a business like this, it can get very frustrating at times. Now I understand that no matter how good my Thai is, I will never be able to make a Thai national understand what I am talking about fully 100%, because they don't even understand each other most of the time, unless they are chatting about food.

This is not only from my piont of view, most farang I am in contact with seem to feel the same, yes you can become fluent, but don't think that will make you understood much more than you are at the moment.

Edited July 20, 2008 by solent01

[PeaceBlondie]

I doubt that most Thais consider it rude. Some farang think so, but they no longer shame me. I am a smart guy who cannot learn Thai. My children live in other countries. I try to avoid false guilt trips. I admire those who learn Thai. It is not worth it to me, though.

[GuestHouse]

Yeah, I was thrilled when I went from noob to intermediate, but going from intermediate to fluent seems to have very limited benefits besides face/bragging rights.

Followed immediately by ...

For those who have been here many years without speaking fluently, are you embarrassed about it? Is your wife embarrassed about it?

It seems that one is stuck between a rock and a hard place on 'Nospeakit's' scale of social graces.

Off the Pot and Speak it straight!

Do you want us to be braggarts for speaking fluent Thai or an embarrassment to ourselves and our families for not?

Edited July 20, 2008 by GuestHouse

[dave111223]

What's even worse is the "holier than thou" farangs who take some Thai classes and then all of a sudden any one who doesn't speak Thai is the scum of the earth...telling someone else what they should or shouldn't do with their life is, IMHO, ruder than not speaking Thai.

[Moonrakers]

After 8 years I am fairly fluent in "Pidgeon Thai". By that I mean I am able to understand and be involved in basic conversations, although I do often find myself out of depth and have to call upon my misses for translation.

I do think that my spoken Thai may be more advanced if their alphabet was romanised (I still cannot recognise one letter of the alphabet).

To answer the question: No, I do not think it is rude and neither do Thai's consider it rude. I can only think of one occassion where it has lead to confrontation although I think that it was more a case of the bloke trying to cover his blatant mistake (A barber who gave me an F'in Mullet).

As long as you learn the basics: Hello, Thank you ect, and also do things like Wai when you should and NOT point your feet at Buddhas ect then you have shown respect enough.

[mommysboy]

so i understand that there are obvious benefits to becoming fluent in Thai my question though is do you think it is rude to Thai people if you stay here long term without learning to speak Thai fluently? I think it would be embarrasing to meet your child's teachers and tell them you have lived here X years while not speaking fluent Thai.

I have a hard time making time to learn Thai. For awhile I had it in my IPOD, but then I realized Id much rather listen to music. I would not call it an enjoyable hobby. Yeah, I was thrilled when I went from noob to intermediate, but going from intermediate to fluent seems to have very limited benefits besides face/bragging rights.

For those who have been here many years without speaking fluently, are you embarrassed about it? Is your wife embarrassed about it?

bXoody difficult to become fluent in Thai !!!!

[Thaddeus]

bXoody difficult to become fluent in Thai !!!!

Most of the Thais I know haven't managed it.

Most of the English speaking people I know, are not fluent in English.

Define fluent and then define understandable .... as long as you know enough to be understood without having to slap your forehead every five seconds and then ask for help, what's the problem?

For most of the population, just trying to communicate is more than enough.

And to be brutally honest, once you get outside the rural areas the Thais who do speak some English don't want you to speak Thai, they want to practice their English skills.

Edited July 20, 2008 by Thaddeus

[NoSpeakIt]

Yeah, I was thrilled when I went from noob to intermediate, but going from intermediate to fluent seems to have very limited benefits besides face/bragging rights.

Followed immediately by ...

For those who have been here many years without speaking fluently, are you embarrassed about it? Is your wife embarrassed about it?

It seems that one is stuck between a rock and a hard place on 'Nospeakit's' scale of social graces.

Off the Pot and Speak it straight!

Do you want us to be braggarts for speaking fluent Thai or an embarrassment to ourselves and our families for not?

i don't see the contradiction. i think fluent thai has limited benefits but if the Thai people think its rude to not speak it fluently after living here long term than i would consider putting more effort into it. otherwise, i dont think the utility justifies the effort.

Edited July 20, 2008 by NoSpeakIt

[think_too_mut]

I don't speak Thai, may have picked some words that help me guess what is happening around me.

Why would I learn Thai? An irrelevant language, far less useful than Japanese (where I live) and I know I wil never ever learn Thai to some useful extent (running a business meeting, for example)

Much more benefit is that my wife and baby go with English, that's what is happening.

In Thailand, speaking English is a stand alone, money generating skill.

[gobs]

Not at all!.. Thai people don't worry about how rude it is not speaking Thai!

If some Farang speaks Thai, sometimes they are surprised and become curious about your life, what you do, and so on... But they never care about your unability to speak Thai! For sure, they have better to think and do!..

[solent01]

And to be brutally honest, once you get outside the rural areas the Thais who do speak some English don't want you to speak Thai, they want to practice their English skills.

And how true that is, not brutal at all

So the answer is No, its not rude at all. Just try your best and the (good) locals around you will be happy with you doing what you can to fit in

[petitechevre]

why would most farangs learn thai?

Educated thais speak english

Most farangs who arent teachers or retired that are here are successful. they dont need to associate with people who are the complete oposite of them?

What else besides the basic vocabulary of a 4yo kid do you need if you're only talking in thai with people at 7/11 or massage place?

Many farang's native language isnt even english and many thais speak HORRIBLE thai... everybody should finish up in the middle with english.. which is the easiest language to speak/learn

Personaly, i seldom care about thai males w/ very basic english, most of them are touts or gay and the gay ones they find in their heart the strenght to speak terrible but entertaining and nice english...

As far as thai women go.. a simple smile is enough since i already have my girl.

So i never plan to learn thai, might learn Japanese though

[roygsd]

After 8 years I am fairly fluent in "Pidgeon Thai". By that I mean I am able to understand and be involved in basic conversations, although I do often find myself out of depth and have to call upon my misses for translation.

I do think that my spoken Thai may be more advanced if their alphabet was romanised (I still cannot recognise one letter of the alphabet).

To answer the question: No, I do not think it is rude and neither do Thai's consider it rude. I can only think of one occassion where it has lead to confrontation although I think that it was more a case of the bloke trying to cover his blatant mistake (A barber who gave me an F'in Mullet).

As long as you learn the basics: Hello, Thank you ect, and also do things like Wai when you should and NOT point your feet at Buddhas ect then you have shown respect enough.

Hi

Sorry mate but wai's are for thai's, and my wife and her family would not expect me to adopt thier ways any more than I expect them to adopt farang ways. In fact some thais take the P behind the back of farangs who try to adopt thier ways.

The expression "you should not judge a book by its cover" is very appropriate when dealing with monks in LOS, the fact is that being a monk in LOS is much overrated and much misunderstood by farangs.

These days becoming a monk is not much different to serving a community service order in the uk for some low life's in LOS.

Respect has to be earned and is not an entitlement.

Roy gsd

[kiakaha]

but going from intermediate to fluent seems to have very limited benefits besides face/bragging rights.

I studied thai, and continually work on it, to a high level because I have always enjoyed the challenge of tackling foreign languages.

For me, the one of main benefits of being able to read/write and speak very well, is NOT letting thai people you know.

Edited July 20, 2008 by kiakaha

[solent01]

Sorry mate but wai's are for thai's

So your at a party, meeting new people, every time you go to shake somebodys hand they don't respond. How would that make you feel?

So when somebody of equal or higher standing Wai's you and you don't respond, how do you think they feel (if you don't already know maybe I should expand, they feel your bl00dy rude), in your case speaking or not speaking Thai is irrelevant.

If you understand the concept regarding the "Wai" then you would understand that at the right time a "Wai" is simply being polite.

[AmeriThai]

I guess when one thinks of "fluent Thai", it means someone who knows the language as good as, or nearly so, as native Thais. I'm fairly good with Thai, but there's still a lot that goes over my head. Most Thais I know or have encountered seem impressed that I know any Thai at all. As such, I've had the good fortune of finding most people are understanding and helpful. Of course, my wife provides the most help. Still, if there's something I don't understand, I might ask if they can explain it a different way, or give an example, so I can better understand. And if it works out, then I've learned something new.

There are advantages in being fluent, but I don't think most Thais find it rude if I'm not an expert. Most seem pleased that I've bothered to learn the language at all. I suppose my main advantage is that I'm usually surrounded by Thais who either know very little English or none at all. The best 'teachers' IMO, are the Thais themselves.

[rising]

hi all i have been a member here for almost 1 year now and this is my first post.

i have been married to a lovey thai lady for 4yrs now and i have had thai family members for 15 yrs but i am tone deaf and my family knows that i have no hope in hel_l of every learning or speaking thai.

But they don't care about this as they know i am a good person that will respect there beliefs even if i can't speak their language. i think thai ppl dont so much care if u can speak to them just so long as u respect them for who they r and that you know ur own limits and dont try to limit them. thai's beleive in freedom not just for ppl but for all living thing. so if u cant speak to them but u r willing too spend ur time and point and make fuuny noises just to communict it is half the fun. my thai friends still try too teach me thai even thow they know i can't learn it but it's part of the fun for them. Just lisening to my mistake makes them happy and the days shorter.

i always think in the back of my head this is the land of smiles and if i can make one person smile today then it was a gooday but that is me .. just say hi on the street and spend 1hr talking to someone u don't know and u will be richer for it as will they . Hope i didn't put u to sleep with that but it's what i wonted to say after 18months here thxs guys brett

[kiakaha]

Sorry mate but wai's are for thai's

Based on that logic, thai's should not handshake right ?

I very rarely wai...but I do know when the occasion is appropriate, expected and determined polite behavior ie: I meet a thai of significant standing or seniority etc.. , especially when people know you have lived in Thailand a very long time and read/speak thai well.

[AmeriThai]

hi all i have been a member here for almost 1 year now and this is my first post.

i have been married to a lovey thai lady for 4yrs now and i have had thai family members for 15 yrs but i am tone deaf and my family knows that i have no hope in hel_l of every learning or speaking thai.

But they don't care about this as they know i am a good person that will respect there beliefs even if i can't speak their language. i think thai ppl dont so much care if u can speak to them just so long as u respect them for who they r and that you know ur own limits and dont try to limit them. thai's beleive in freedom not just for ppl but for all living thing. so if u cant speak to them but u r willing too spend ur time and point and make fuuny noises just to communict it is half the fun. my thai friends still try too teach me thai even thow they know i can't learn it but it's part of the fun for them. Just lisening to my mistake makes them happy and the days shorter.

i always think in the back of my head this is the land of smiles and if i can make one person smile today then it was a gooday but that is me .. just say hi on the street and spend 1hr talking to someone u don't know and u will be richer for it as will they . Hope i didn't put u to sleep with that but it's what i wonted to say after 18months here thxs guys brett

If that works for you, then that's great. I assume you've learned a little though, haven't you? Maybe one way to get around the tone deafness issue is to ask them to speak a little slower. If it still isn't right, try again. There's only 5 tones, so one of them has to be right. But I agree, that how you project yourself can be important too. Keep trying! Even learning just a little bit can be rewarding.

Why not take a class?

Edited July 20, 2008 by AmeriThai

[solent01]

hi all i have been a member here for almost 1 year now and this is my first post.

i have been married to a lovey thai lady for 4yrs now and i have had thai family members for 15 yrs but i am tone deaf and my family knows that i have no hope in hel_l of every learning or speaking thai.

But they don't care about this as they know i am a good person that will respect there beliefs even if i can't speak their language. i think thai ppl dont so much care if u can speak to them just so long as u respect them for who they r and that you know ur own limits and dont try to limit them. thai's beleive in freedom not just for ppl but for all living thing. so if u cant speak to them but u r willing too spend ur time and point and make fuuny noises just to communict it is half the fun. my thai friends still try too teach me thai even thow they know i can't learn it but it's part of the fun for them. Just lisening to my mistake makes them happy and the days shorter.

i always think in the back of my head this is the land of smiles and if i can make one person smile today then it was a gooday but that is me .. just say hi on the street and spend 1hr talking to someone u don't know and u will be richer for it as will they . Hope i didn't put u to sleep with that but it's what i wonted to say after 18months here thxs guys brett

Hi Brett, welcome to TV, (even if it is a year later )

Good first post, hope to read many more

[TheDon]

I think if you live in Thailand they should make you speak some of the basics, I think you should not be able to get more then a Tourist visa unless you pass a test.

[simon43]

Actually I agree with Thedon. I do not think we all need to become fluent in Thai (that's an impossibility). But I do think that visa extensions (for business, family support, retirement etc) should be tied to being able to speak (not read/wite) some simple Thai. So you can stay in LoS for your 1st year without needing this requirement, and that gives you time to learn some Thai. More productive than propping up the bars all night - although many would disagree with my point of view ...

Simon

[garro]

I would find it very difficult to live in Thailand if I couldn't communicate with those around me in their language - at least some of the time. I have met Thais on a few occasions who have criticised long-term ex-pats for not making more of an effort to learn the language. The more Thai I learn the more interesting the place appears. I do sympathise with the OP about the move from intermediate to fluent - it isn't easy, but nobody said to me that it would be. I don't see the ability to speak Thai as something to boast about, but more as a means to get by.

[Brigante7]

After 8 years I am fairly fluent in "Pidgeon Thai". By that I mean I am able to understand and be involved in basic conversations, although I do often find myself out of depth and have to call upon my misses for translation.

I do think that my spoken Thai may be more advanced if their alphabet was romanised (I still cannot recognise one letter of the alphabet).

To answer the question: No, I do not think it is rude and neither do Thai's consider it rude. I can only think of one occassion where it has lead to confrontation although I think that it was more a case of the bloke trying to cover his blatant mistake (A barber who gave me an F'in Mullet).

As long as you learn the basics: Hello, Thank you ect, and also do things like Wai when you should and NOT point your feet at Buddhas ect then you have shown respect enough.

Hi

Sorry mate but wai's are for thai's, and my wife and her family would not expect me to adopt thier ways any more than I expect them to adopt farang ways. In fact some thais take the P behind the back of farangs who try to adopt thier ways.

The expression "you should not judge a book by its cover" is very appropriate when dealing with monks in LOS, the fact is that being a monk in LOS is much overrated and much misunderstood by farangs.

These days becoming a monk is not much different to serving a community service order in the uk for some low life's in LOS.

Respect has to be earned and is not an entitlement.

Roy gsd

Before I met my wifes family for the first time she showed me exactly how to wai and taught me how to say hello, how are you and I am fine thank you in Thai and she told me that her family and especially her dad would see it as a sign of respect that I learned a few words of Thai before I met them and greeted them in the appropriate manner and I am glad I did.

As for learning Thai, I can speak a few words but I hope that when we live in Thailand I'll learn more but we'll just have to wait and see.

[ozsamurai]

Why would I learn Thai? An irrelevant language, far less useful than Japanese (where I live) and I know I wil never ever learn Thai to some useful extent (running a business meeting, for example)

Much more benefit is that my wife and baby go with English, that's what is happening.

In Thailand, speaking English is a stand alone, money generating skill.

I am fluent in Japanese, 10yrs as a professional translator/interpreter in Japan, you could not be further from correct. Japanese industry for the past 10yrs has made massive expansion in the Thai marketplace. Honda, Toyota, Sony just to name a few, opening production facilities. The largest ex-pat community here in Thailand is, you guessed it, Japanese. I'm here to catch the next wave, which is Thai, not Japanese language ability. The days of thinking Japanese is the 'in' thing are over, sorry! That wave was in the bubble of the late 80's. Unless of course you want to slave in a call center.. A combination of 3-4 languages is required thesedays, and Thai is right up there, in the money generating area. JPN-ENG translator 3G a month, JPN-ENG-THA 7G...

Happily Studying my Thai.

As to the OP, I am annoyed that people immigrating to Australia were not until recently required to undertake any English study. How can a country be on the same page if its citzens, even us temporary or semi-permanent ones don't take the time to communicate with each other in its own language.... now thats rude. I have lived in an expat community most of my life and I have noticed some cultural bias to the acquiition of 'local' languages, be it Japanese or Thai. It seems to be obvious to me, the more nationalistic the country of origin, the more their citizens tend to not acquire other langauge skill. Without pointing the bone, Americans/English tend to feel its beneath them and a waste of time to learn Asian languages, whereas Canadians, Australians etc. make up 70% of the translators I worked with, across many companies. There is no way to slice it really, its rude not to have at least basic communication skill in Thai while living here long term.

Oz

Edit: typo

Edited July 21, 2008 by ozsamurai