Saturation Point?

[KhunLing]

I noticed that Stickmans article this week suggests that there's too many ajarns and that people are 'fighting' for the 30 000 baht jobs.

This is certainly "different" than my own experience 12 months ago. However, I've been out of Thailand since. I intend to return soon, so his article is slightly concerning. What are the opinions of the board members here?

ARTICLE BELOW

Saturation Point?

For some it is merely a way to get a foot into Thailand and for others it is their career, their Thailand career, the only way they know to be able to stay in Thailand. But there is a growing number of people who now look at it as a rather embarrassing way to make a living. I am of course talking about teaching English.

What has surprised me is the number of people who apply for teaching jobs. At my place of employment, I am the one who places the job ads online and I am the one who fields the inquiries. Two jobs advertised in the last year have had an absolutely phenomenal response. The most recent, which was somewhat unique in its requirement, had over 60 applicants! And about 2/3 of the applicants met the necessary criteria, on paper at least. The previous position advertised received a similar number of applicants and again, the quality of people who applied was breathtaking. We even received applications from guys with a doctorate from such prestigious universities Oxford and Cambridge. I kid you not! I was flabbergasted at the quality of some of the people applying.

If there is a school out there which requires an English teacher aged 30 - 35, who can also teach drama and is happy to knock out a course in poetry, must be from Australia or New Zealand, preferably have had a few years experience in Thailand, can coach the school soccer team, has no convictions, can pass an AIDs test, is well presented, is blonde haired and blue eyed, is married, is a staunch Christian, has all of his or her teeth, is clean cut, knows that a Pratunam tie just doesn't cut it, doesn't carry a Nike sports bag to work, shaves every day, smiles and never complains then have no fear, because I am sure there are suitable candidates out there right now!

The big growth area in the last few years has been placing native English speaking teachers into Thai high schools where their role is anything from being little more than a walking radio, a point of contact for students they teach once a week, to being the students' core English teacher, i.e. the only person they study English with. So, the biggest demand for English teachers would appear to be in Thai schools, both junior school and high school, teaching English as part of their general school education.

But the funny thing is that there aren't that many native English teachers teaching in Thailand who are actually properly qualified to teach these kids. Those "qualified teachers" teaching here are invariably qualified to teach either one or other subject, be it maths, science, social studies or the whole bunch. They are not trained as teachers of English as a foreign language! And those teachers who say that they have a TEFL qualification, an RSA, a Trinity or whatever often conveniently forget that most of these English teaching qualifications are courses in which the teacher was trained TO TEACH ENGLISH TO ADULTS! It seems to be a very small minority who are actually trained and qualified to teach foreign kids (as opposed to adults,) English.

This week I did an experiment. I had a think about the ideal candidate for an English teaching position and based on that knocked up what I considered would be the perfect CV. Age had to be mid 30s, young enough still to have their looks intact but old enough to be taken seriously. 5 years experience in Thailand which suggests at least some understanding of the nuances of Thailand and its unique culture. Married, which shows, or at least suggests, that one will not be out in the naughty bars every night. Oh, and qualifications - a degree in education and an RSA. On paper at least, a damned good candidate.

I sent the CV and a kick ass application letter to 10 different organisations advertising teaching positions in Bangkok. I amended the CV in a couple of instances so that it met all criteria listed in the ad. I thought replies would be coming in thick and fast but no, NOT ONE SCHOOL REPLIED! An ideally qualified candidate and not one response? It could be that responses have yet to come back as they weigh up the various applications, or it could be that the CV intimidated the person reading it and he threw it into the bin, something which is a very real problem in the industry...or it could be that SO many people are applying for jobs and competition is so intense, that even an ideal candidate might not even get an interview!

English teaching has been a backup plan for many Westerners moving to or even living in Thailand. If things go bad I can always teach English seems to be many folks' thinking. But things are changing. True, there are stacks of jobs out there, but many of these jobs still pay less than 30,000 baht a month and worst of all, there seem to be stacks of people not just applying for them but fighting for such positions! Has the English teaching industry in Thailand reached saturation point?

[bluebear]

I noticed that Stickmans article this week suggests that there's too many ajarns and that people are 'fighting' for the 30 000 baht jobs.

This is certainly "different" than my own experience 12 months ago. However, I've been out of Thailand since. I intend to return soon, so his article is slightly concerning. What are the opinions of the board members here?

Dont think its near saturation yet.

Maybe its because his idea of ideal is not the same as the employers idea. Perhaps they were looking for females or more probably had already got someone / lost the application / hadnt got round to looking at them / couldnt be bothered / the person able to read english was out for the week......

It also depends on how its advertised, I know of a job a couple of months back in a school that only got about 5 replies in a week, they then changed the method of advertising and got 60 in the first 2 days.

Surely its only the newcomers that go for the 30k jobs as once you have been here a while you realise that is fairly near the bottom of the wage pyramid. More newcomers then maybe?

[kenkannif]

I'd say it's the opposite, more work than teachers IMO!

[KhunLing]

I'd say it's the opposite, more work than teachers IMO!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Ken

Yes, that's the impression I got a year ago.

I wonder what angle Stick is coming from? Seems strange, as he's always been pretty much 'on the mark' re teaching matters.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I'd say it's the opposite, more work than teachers IMO!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Ken

Yes, that's the impression I got a year ago.

I wonder what angle Stick is coming from? Seems strange, as he's always been pretty much 'on the mark' re teaching matters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The moral of the story is not to take Stickman's tales too much to heart. He's full of it.

[Ijustwannateach]

I agree- demand is high, supply is short.

that said, and not knowing where Stickman works, you can get pretty good response for a job that goes OVER the 30K barrier.... so perhaps he's seeing the cream of the crop in all Thailand at a really good job. Wouldn't surprise me, considering how horrible most of the teaching jobs here are.

"Steven"

[frenchFARANGbkk]

The moral of the story is not to take Stickman's tales too much to heart.   He's full of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you're so right...

Edited November 11, 2004 by kenkannif

[kenkannif]

Off topic a bit, but would it be a misuse of my Mod powers to correct things like the quote bit above? Would you lot mind at all?

[Ijustwannateach]

I wouldn't mind!

[griser]

I don't know whats in Sticks crack pipe, but it must be good! hehe

Try putting a resume on Ajarn.com. I got 30 replies a week for two weeks. No experience no pic on the posting.

He may be trying to get teacher to accept a lower wage for his company by scaring people. not sure. I may be off base but it does sound really funny to post something that obviously WRONG.

Greg

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Off topic a bit, but would it be a misuse of my Mod powers to correct things like the quote bit above? Would you lot mind at all?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Go for it.

[mbkudu]

Off topic a bit, but would it be a misuse of my Mod powers to correct things like the quote bit above? Would you lot mind at all?

Ken, why are you being so timid; are you a gung-ho Mod or a semi-mod? Show'em who's boss.

[kenkannif]

Hey I'm a timid kind of person mate, can't be something I'm not

Just checking some people hate people messin' with their posts, however minor.

TV rules (and I suppose George and other senior Mods) are the boss(es), then it's up to you lot, my personal opinions/thoughts should come last IMO!

Eunuch (sp?) Mod boy KK.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hey I'm a timid kind of person mate, can't be something I'm not

Just checking some people hate people messin' with their posts, however minor.

TV rules (and I suppose George and other senior Mods) are the boss(es), then it's up to you lot, my personal opinions/thoughts should come last IMO!

Eunuch (sp?) Mod boy KK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm ... a eunuch. That's a guy on a diet who lost two stone isn't it ?

[mbkudu]

Hey I'm a timid kind of person mate, can't be something I'm not

Just checking some people hate people messin' with their posts, however minor.

TV rules (and I suppose George and other senior Mods) are the boss(es), then it's up to you lot, my personal opinions/thoughts should come last IMO!

Eunuch (sp?) Mod boy KK.

I'm not roughing you up; just taking the piss as you gents call it.

[kenkannif]

I prefer "pulling your/my plonker"

[mbkudu]

I was actually very surprised when I read Stickman's article. It really makes no sense at all. An Australian friend of mine who has worked in Bangkok for the past 15 years told me recently that he has so much work that he turns down work all the time. He does all private work with Korean families and businessmen. I wonder where Stickman is getting his information.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I was actually very surprised when I read Stickman's article. It really makes no sense at all. An Australian friend of mine who has worked in Bangkok for the past 15 years told me recently that he has so much work that he turns down work all the time. He does all private work with Korean families and businessmen. I wonder where Stickman is getting his information.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He makes it up to meet deadlines.

[kenkannif]

^ You 'old' cynic you. I must admit though I'm not his biggest fan for various reasons But he's responded to e-mails from me, although not always my requests.....although not many people do or have reason to (wife included!).

Edited November 11, 2004 by kenkannif

[mbkudu]

I will second this. I have sent him emails and he has responded every time. His column is entertainment and nothing else. You have to remember that he has not lived in Thaialnd all that long. I still like his stuff and read between the lines. The readers submissions can be interesting. By the way, Trink doesn't give a sh!t (Hoot) about his readers. He never emails back and just expects people to send him stuff like books and articles for his own benefit; a &lt;deleted&gt; if there needs to be a definition.

[snowleopard]

I will second this. I have sent him emails and he has responded every time. His column is entertainment and nothing else. You have to remember that he has not lived in Thaialnd all that long. I still like his stuff and read between the lines. The readers submissions can be interesting. By the way, Trink doesn't give a sh!t (Hoot) about his readers. He never emails back and just expects people to send him stuff like books and articles for his own benefit; a &lt;deleted&gt; if there needs to be a definition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By the way, Trink doesn't give a sh!t (Hoot) about his readers. He never emails

He's actually emailed me without asking for anything.

I met him a few times years ago and I think he's not as bad as some folks say.

Snowleopard.

[Boon Mee]

I will second this. I have sent him emails and he has responded every time. His column is entertainment and nothing else. You have to remember that he has not lived in Thaialnd all that long. I still like his stuff and read between the lines. The readers submissions can be interesting. By the way, Trink doesn't give a sh!t (Hoot) about his readers. He never emails back and just expects people to send him stuff like books and articles for his own benefit; a &lt;deleted&gt; if there needs to be a definition.

At one time years ago I, too, would send Trink stuff...not one word of appreciation from him.

Oh well, he was probably busy...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I will second this. I have sent him emails and he has responded every time. His column is entertainment and nothing else. You have to remember that he has not lived in Thaialnd all that long. I still like his stuff and read between the lines. The readers submissions can be interesting. By the way, Trink doesn't give a sh!t (Hoot) about his readers. He never emails back and just expects people to send him stuff like books and articles for his own benefit; a &lt;deleted&gt; if there needs to be a definition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At one time years ago I, too, would send Trink stuff...not one word of appreciation from him.

Oh well, he was probably busy...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are a bit too kind to him

[Bangkok Phil]

I agree with a lot of what Stickman says, but he's way off the mark this time. Just because loads of applications land on your desk doesn't mean you're left with many once you've discarded the non-native speakers, the unqualified and the inexperienced - which is what happens to most schools and institutes offering between 25 and 35K. How else would I get the same jobs cropping up again and again on ajarn.com? There are NOT enough good, qualified teachers to go round and I'm pretty sure there has been a decrease in the number of teachers coming here to ply their trade.

Thailand just isn't as attractive a proposition as it was in say the late 90's. I wont go into the reasons because we all know what they are.

[withnail]

Can I just ask when people refer to qualified or unqualified teachers here in the LOS are we talking legally qualified to work or highly qualified in the field of education?

[Ijustwannateach]

Depends- there are the following possibilities:

1. qualified in the home country to teach

2. qualified by Thai standards for farang to teach

3. qualified for the job by the employer's standards

However, as all 3 types are basically in short supply here, I think Phil's comment is on target no matter which way you take it.

"Steven"

[withnail]

Okay let me put it another way do you think someone like myself i.e. that has a BA (not education related), a TEFL and just over a years experience of teaching in Thailand is a qualified teacher that there is demand for. Or am I what is filling the gap because they can't find what they really want.

Obviously I'm not talking about international schools and such like but as a farang employer would a CV like mine be a throw away or middle to top of the pile?

[kenkannif]

I echo IJWT, I echo IJWT!

[kenkannif]

Okay let me put it another way do you think someone like myself i.e. that has a BA (not education related), a TEFL and just over a years experience of teaching in Thailand is a qualified teacher that there is demand for. Or am I what is filling the gap because they can't find what they really want.

Obviously I'm not talking about international schools and such like but as a farang employer would a CV like mine be a throw away or middle to top of the pile?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While you might not be top top top of the heap, you'd be getting there (that's the problem there's so many people with similarish quals, and experience IMO is looked at minimally quite often....so you're all kind of in the middle of the heap!). Although that's the problem here a resume/CV will only tell so much (or so little). But yeah if you knock on enough doors someone, somewhere will appreciate you're a reliable, hard working and 'good' teacher....the bugger is to find them!

Also getting your foot in the door and then proving you're all of the above, could well mean you could get a better job/wages for doing so. Why you looking for a new job mate

I had a couple of friends with the same quals as you (but zero experience) walk into 50K (plus flight, bonuses etc.) jobs right away. They actually don't even spend their wage but live off their privates (800-1,000 Baht an hour!).

Employers that appreciate 'good' teachers are out there, and where there's a will there is a way....it's just ruddy finding them that's so difficult!

[withnail]

No not looking I was just wondering because I feel that the words qualified and underqualified are over used on these forums without much explanation as to what they mean. I wouldn't personaly consider myself "qualified" but then I wouldn't expect anyone who is to be doing the sort of jobs that I am.

The whole debate about good or bad teachers in the LOS really bothers me actually as most of my friends aren't even as qualified as I am and therefore fall into the "backpacker" category (a massive over simplification). However considering the jobs they do and the money they earn who cares. I've got "unqualified" friends here that genuinely care about what they do, who I would definitely trust to teach my kids (if I had any).

Oh and don't get me on the subject of bad employers.