High Numbers Of Previously Straight Geriatics Now In Gay Scene Esp Pattaya

[Turnkey]

Have you noticed the large number of very aged wrinklies around?

Many of them look like they have one foot in the grave, and these misfortunates seem to pervade the gay scene especially in Pattaya.

A lot of them are apparently straights and then at some stage in their 60's or 70's or older decide they want to be or pretend to be gay; why I wonder?

So many of them are geriatic albinos, or so it seems and they often have children or grandchildren.

Can understand people in their teens or 20's being unsure of their sexuality but what is it with these oldies?

Any explanations?

Edited July 22, 2008 by Turnkey

[PeaceBlondie]

Turnkey, nobody has replied yet, so let me try to answer your questions or thoughts.

Your observations are based on how many hundred in-depth interviews in Pattaya? Specifically, how do you know they are apparently straight if they are gay or pretending to be gay? Cross-dressers? Bad make-up? Wild hand motions, including swinging handbags? You do realize, I hope, that some guys over age 50 have been closeted gays since age 5, or 15? I knew a straight Baptist who waited till after her aged father finally died, before committing adultery and group sex. She started smoking cigarettes and other objects at age 41.

It is quite normal for gay men over 50 to have children and grandchildren (I have 17). I assure you that a decision to finally come out of the closet is not something that a guy pretends.

I hope that explains some of it. Why, I have even known long-term voting Republicans to switch political parties, as I did in 1984.

[joe552]

I'm not sure how humourous you intended your post to be, but I for one found it objectionable. Just wanted to let you know!

[Jingthing]

Hmmm.

I don't know if its Thai related, or if the OP meant to be twisted and nasty, but come to mention it, I have encountered in my life older men who "become" gay late in life.

I am sure there are as many reasons as each case of this, but some come to mind:

-- lived a closted life, and now feel free to be who they really are or at least who they are now

-- no longer feel the desire or ability to perform sexually with a woman, and now find male to male relations more relaxing (read between the lines)

-- approaching death, feeling a spiritual bond with young men that needs expressing (perhaps projecting the young men as versions of their lost youth they need to connect with), as human growth and change potentially does not end when people are still young / smarter, wiser older people fully realize that the time for BS is over, now or never!

-- losing sexual function, start to feel romantic love with a peer specific male companion

-- economic incentives and disincentives (local market forces), (in Pattaya terms, being gay may generally be more affordable than getting involved/married to a Thai woman)

I seriously doubt anyone would choose to be gay as an elder to be trendy and fit in.

(PB: Is this post intellectually "stimulating" enough for you?)

As to why there are so many oldie farangs in Pattaya, same reason there are so many in South Florida or Southern Spain.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Jingthing

[Scott]

You might want to turn it around. I think they were gay pretending to be straight when they were younger.

For a moment lets just imagine the 'honorable' senator Larry Craig moving to Pattaya. Which area do you think he'd feel most comfortable in?

[Heng]

Is it politically incorrect to say that for some gays, it might not only be a natural state of body and mind, but a case of hormonal/other physiological changes in the brain and body? Surely it's not all cases of folks repressing (and "pretending") their natural tendancies for all of their lives and then deciding to just *go with it* in old age?

[geriatrickid]

This naive guy says it might be because;

1. Some of the gay places are fun and less of a hassle.

When I go with my friends to a gay bar, and some kid (most likely visually impaired) calls me hansum man and hits on me, I say no thanks and that's the end of it. Go into the "str8" bars and the girls don't take no for an answer. Ok, true, I have my chaperones with their scrotum incinerating glares, but I really do feel I am left alone.

2. Maybe some of those codgers are curious because they've seen and heard so much or maybe one of their kids is gay.

3. Maybe they are looking for help.

Don't laugh. I'm serious. If you were old and lonely or needed help around the house and couldn't find staff for cheap, maybe you'd be desperate enough to see if anyone in the gay bar area is looking for a part time job or change in careers. Not everyone that works in gay bars turns tricks and at a certain point, if they can't get a farang b/f to support them, they have to move along to make way for someone prettier & younger.

4. In the paradise ghetto in patong they have a couple of those cabaret shows. I lasted all of 10 minutes when I was forced to go watch people in cruise boat show attire lip synch to bad disco. However, I was there long enough to notice that there were a fair number of older hetero couples in there. The Japanese and Taiwan tourist sem to like an hour or two of off kilter fun.

Yea, I know I'm a pixie prancing on items 2 & 3, but there are people like that out there. Look, I've spent too many hours sitting in karaoke bars listening to my friends sing off key to the point that I want to go bang my head on the pavement, yet there are those that love karaoke. Different strokes for different folks.

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes Jimgthing, regarding my recent all-forums cry for intellectual discussion - this level of cerebral interchange is just fine, thank you.In fact, we have already had maybe 3.5 straight posters responding, and doing quite well.

[mijan24]

I'm not sure how humourous you intended your post to be, but I for one found it objectionable. Just wanted to let you know!

joe552 - Firstly let me state I am not Gay but firmly believe that everyone to their own desires/choices, but you (joe552) have a serious problem:

1. If your remark was aimed at the OP - What has he said that gets up your nose.

2, If your remark was aimed at PB I think you have bitten off more than you can chew.

If it was just blowing off steam no probs reminds me oooooof:

Paddy (coincidently a geriatic albino wrinkly) phones an ambulance because his mate ( A gay wrinkly from Pattaya) has been hit by a car.

Paddy 'Get an ambulance here quick, he's bleeding from his nose and ears and I tink both his legs are broken'

Thai Operator (Hot YOUNG number from upper Issan (gender unknown)) 'What is your location sir?'

Paddy the (gaw) 'Outside number 28, Eucalyptus Street'

Thai Operator 'How do you spell that sir?'

Silence.

After a minute:-

Thai Operator 'Are you there sir?'

Silence.

A further minute goes by:-

Thai Operator 'Sir, can you hear me!!?'

This goes on for another few minutes until:-

Thai Operator 'Sir, please answer me.

Can you still hear me!!?'

Paddy (gaw)'Yes, sorry bout dat. I just dragged him round to number 3, Oak Street'.

OK, Q: what has this got to do with the OP A: Nothing -- Just hoping to brighten your day.

Edited July 23, 2008 by mijan24

[britmaveric]

As obvious as it may seem, perhaps there are just more older gays running around?

[Jingthing]

As obvious as it may seem, perhaps there are just more older gays running around?

Perhaps. But the question asked (I think) is why there are so many older gays who move here from previous straight lives. I am not convinced there really are that many of that class here, or how that would be determined.

Anyway, the point that some old men might be looking for male caretakers is intriguing and I suspect true. I am under the impression that people looking for personal care often prefer caretakers of the same sex, its more comfortable and less humiliating when it comes to changing nappy time.

Anyway, I am not yet an official oldie yet but hope to be one someday, but I want to convey my respect to our gay elders here.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Jingthing

[bluemanna]

Who really cares? Each to their own I say. If guys change their prefrences during different seasons of their life, good luck to them for having experienced both sides of the fence.

[farang prince]

Have you noticed the large number of very aged wrinklies around?

Many of them look like they have one foot in the grave, and these misfortunates seem to pervade the gay scene especially in Pattaya.

A lot of them are apparently straights and then at some stage in their 60's or 70's or older decide they want to be or pretend to be gay; why I wonder?

So many of them are geriatic albinos, or so it seems and they often have children or grandchildren.

Can understand people in their teens or 20's being unsure of their sexuality but what is it with these oldies?

Any explanations?

I haven't seen you in the Gay Forum before, Turnkey, so I don't know if you are a troll or not. You ask an interesting question but you do it in a rather insulting manner. First, you refer to a "large number of very aged wrinklies around?" Could you please define your category? Is it men over 40 (they have wrinkles); men over 50 (wrinkles and graying hair); men over 60 (wrinkles, white hair); or men over 70 (wrinkles, white hair and perhaps drooling in their soup)?

Second, you say "a lot of them are apparently straights...." How do you know this? Were these guys plowing your wife in their earlier year's?

Thirdly, you say "so many of them are geriatic albinos...." What the hel_l are "geriatric albinos"? Old guys with white legs who wear Bermuda shorts and black socks?

Fourthly, you say "they often have children or grandchildren...." How do you know this? Are you trying to hustle their grandsons or granddaughters?

[Ijustwannateach]

From my point of view, it makes perfect sense that a number of older gay men have recently come out of the closet. They were gay in a period of time in which being gay meant not only social and physical harm, but also potentially unwelcome government attention and stalking from city to city to "out" you and make you lose the chance for most types of employment. The pressure was much higher to fit in, if you wanted to get a job and be promoted. It's hard even for gay younger men like me to imagine quite what it was like, never mind the straight posters on the thread. *Many* of the 60+ gay men that I know have been married and had families- and had very successful careers- but the price they paid was the closet.

What does "albino" have to do with anything? OP, are you still under the bridge out there?

[LtCol]

Live & let Live.

"Gay" or 'Straight" who really cares ? as long as you don't try to force yourself on me , I have a care factor of zero.

But, I would suggest you look around at other Resort Locations & you may be able to make the same generalisations.

Bali,Bondi Beach,Surfers Paradise,Dubai,Costa Del Sol,Cancun,SOUTH BEACH(MIAMI),Galveston Beach,Copacabana & on & on.

Perhaps the reasons are that they are treated as humans amongst the Resorts , rather than being judged as 'perverse' when all they want to do is live their own lives without the constant snide asides they experience in their own home towns.

Maybe some have had to live a repressed existance as they raised families & now are no longer constrained by Family & others expectations of Normality as they have now matured & moved on allowing them a freedom of choice we all take for granted , but, some haven't had.

I don't know ,but I would never judge another unless it was my job.

Just my 2 cents worth

[PhilHarries]

Funny how the concept of PC gets twisted around.

If I (straight) started a thread "What the hel_l is happing? Pattaya is going to the dogs with all these gays strutting around."

I'd be shot down as a raging homophobe.

But this guy can ask a similar "What the hel_l is happing? Pattaya is going to the dogs with all these wrinklies strutting around."

What gives? Surely this is ageist?

Just remember old folk are merely what you will become if you survive enough of life, and you haven't made the grade so far.

Anyway what's up, can't compete?

[Jingthing]

Sure, Phil, you are correct. Gay men in the west, in general, are very ageist. Older gay men, as do women, often become completely invisible after 40, 50, or even 30. The attractions of Thailand versus that are obvious. So what else is new?

Edited July 23, 2008 by Jingthing

[PhilHarries]

Don't disagree with you Jingthing, much the same as a guy of 40+ in the west has virtually no chance of pulling a girl of 20 but in Thailand it's no problem provided he can supply the financial support, and she doesn't have to be P4P either.

What I was getting at was the lopsided tolerance on the forum for various topics. As I said I'd be blackballed for raising the thread I postulated whilst the rest of the forum can lam into anyone older than themselves with impunity as in this thread.

It doesn't really bother me, just makes me laugh when you see them on threads "Where is the cheapest place to buy nasal hair clippers".

Money = the universal anti-aging cream.

[midas]

I'm not sure how humourous you intended your post to be, but I for one found it objectionable. Just wanted to let you know!

chill out man ! where is your sense of humour ? I thought his post was hilarious

[Scott]

Having grown up in the West in a very conservative area and quite a number of years ago, there is one thing you did NOT want to be and that was gay. Your career options were suddenly very limited as was your employment. I saw people fired for being 'suspected' of being gay. Police thought nothing of 'ridding' any place that got a reputation as being a gay hang-out of their presence.

Since a good % of gays were good in school and were college educated, they chose the career path. Many did quite well because they didn't have family obligations to tie them down. But somewhere around 35, if you weren't married you were considered to be "a little light in the loafers." About the only way to truly dispell these rumors was to get married.

This was sometimes very sad for all concerned--including a very nice and loving lady who knew nothing about this and didn't deserve to not ever truly have the love and full attention of the person she married. Make no mistake, no all gay men simply 'used' some unsuspecting lady, but it wasn't an easy life.

Then one day they make a trip to Thailand--no hated, not reviled--actually even liked! Wow.

[sgtpeppers]

could be the alzimers - they forget they are straight.

convenience factor - two birds one stone - enema

gotta be a troll lol

Edited July 23, 2008 by sgtpeppers

[joe552]

Midas, I'm glad you found it hilarious, but you surely won't mind if I disagree with you?

Mijan24 - I found the OP objectionable, sorry if I didn't make that clear. Phrases such as 'very aged wrinklies', misfortunates (sic), geriatric albinos - I should read these as terms of endearment? I don't apologise for finding ageist words and phrases objectionable, in the same way I find racist, sexist or homophobic words and phrases objectionable.

Nothing wrong with my sense of humour, by the way - I'm Irish, after all!

[PeaceBlondie]

Speaking of old, wrinkled gay men, I am reminded of the American gay 'poster boy,' the Honorable Barney Frank, Congressman from Massachusetts and chairman of the House Financial Services Committee. Old Barney has been openly gay for decades, and he even survived having a boyfriend who was a barboy, turning tricks from their condo. In my novel, a gay out-of-the-closet man over age 50 becomes world famous as an icon of randy but monogamous older lovers.

I suggest we do not go cringing into the night, afraid to make love.

[Shotime]

A lot of defensive posts here. I'm a little shy, but I do have a couple questions.

"Have you noticed the large number of very aged wrinklies around?"

Are you talking about my face? Yes, I have noticed.

"Many of them look like they have one foot in the grave, and these misfortunates seem to pervade the gay scene especially in Pattaya."

Are they misfortunate because they have one foot in the grave? or because they're in Pattaya? Where's their other foot? You must be gay or you couldn't use the word pervade. How else would you know? Not that I have anything against being gay.

"A lot of them are apparently straights and then at some stage in their 60's or 70's or older decide they want to be or pretend to be gay; why I wonder?"

Does one decide they want to be or pretend to be gay? How do you pretend to be gay? If you're so involved in the gay scene, why don't you ask them? I'm sure you can find something better to wonder about.

"So many of them are geriatic albinos, or so it seems and they often have children or grandchildren.

Can understand people in their teens or 20's being unsure of their sexuality but what is it with these oldies?

Any explanations?"

The only explanation I can come up with is that they're geriat(r?)ic albinos, or I don't understand what geriatic means. In any case, these albinos don't seem unsure of their sexuality. The term used here in Thailand, I think, is Tiger (being that they have children, they must have been heterosexual at one time). When you've got one foot in the grave, you'll tend to hit anything before the other shoe falls.

I can't wait to see what avatar you decide on.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Shotime

[geriatrickid]

I suggest we do not go cringing into the night, afraid to make love.

The old wino Dylan Thomas seems to have agreed with you. In between whiskies, he wrote that old people should go to a rave at the end of the day;

Do not go gentle into that good night,

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Unless he knew that one day Zack de la Rocha and Rage Against The Machine would be strumming some tunes at Lolapalooza (Philly, '93) raging against the idiots at Parents Music Resource Center. One of PMRC's directors was Tipper Gore, wife of the left's new darling, Al "Greasy" Gore.

Now obviously our resident Lothario, PB, is not afraid to make love, but for those of us that are quick to observe warts, lesions and other beasties on the genitalia of our partners or have heard the horror stories of Pattaya, fear is a survival skill. (Well actually, maybe I just can't get it up, but am too embarrassed admit that, but shhh, I don't want anyone to know in case word gets out cuz then I'd be doomed.)

But ya know, what's the biggie anyway. So a bunch of elderly people are out for some hijinks. Who cares? Maybe they were reliving their glory days of twinkdom back when men would fall over themselves to buy them drinks. Twinks don't age well don't ya know.

[markuk]

and i thought it was a case of as you get older not mattering where you got your rocks off!! hehe

[Scott]

The saddest thing I've ever seen is an aging queen--so I quit looking in the mirror!

[PREXPRESSBKK]

:D

Ok...I know its slightly off topic...but does anybody here know where I can find young cute farangs (18 to 25).in Bangkok..for whatever reasons...the ones on gay.com who claim to be 28 or in their thirties always look old...at least ten years older.

[Navalator]

Have you noticed the large number of very aged wrinklies around?

Many of them look like they have one foot in the grave, and these misfortunates seem to pervade the gay scene especially in Pattaya.

A lot of them are apparently straights and then at some stage in their 60's or 70's or older decide they want to be or pretend to be gay; why I wonder?

So many of them are geriatic albinos, or so it seems and they often have children or grandchildren.

Can understand people in their teens or 20's being unsure of their sexuality but what is it with these oldies?

Any explanations?

TURNKEY? In my day that was slang for a thuggish jail guard. I found your comments to be thuggish as well. You must be an angry, straight, homophobic, redneck guard at an American prison. Your post was very insulting and indicative of a total lack of basic human sensitivity about gay people and aging people. My the god that you believe in help you when you become aged geriatric albino (whatever that is?).

These "oldies" are generally victims of the hateful, punitive, evil and oppressive Judeao-Christian western societies in which, again in my day, a gay person could be murdered at will with no charges brought against the perpetrator. Through word-of-mouth they discover Thailand and Pattaya where they can be themselves and not be fearful of indiscriminate beatings, blackmails, rejections by church and family and job loss because they are gay. They have always been gay but have put some poor woman through an emotional ringer to have a sham marriage (with children) to deflect the monstrous dysfunctional Christian societies from where they came. Thailand is where they can find unqualified acceptance and live out their remaining days in a state of happiness.

With your shameful attitude, you should be so lucky!

[farang prince]

We have never heard back from the OP so my guess is that he was a troll and just wanted to get everyone wound up. He managed to succeed.