How To Solve The Southern Problems?

[Covertjay]

What do all expats thinks about something that could dramatically change the place we live in?

[IamMaiC]

What do all expats thinks about something that could dramatically change the place we live in?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's the Latest News from that area??

[LadyinRed]

I vote the 2nd option.

Since BKK and the south don't think alike they should do each other a favour and get along

[Narachon]

I vote the 2nd option.

Since BKK and the south don't think alike they should do each other a favour and get along 

Regional Autonomy does sounds good. After all, the region was once the great Pattani Sultanate, before it went into decline and was then annexed by Thailand in the early 20th century.

I guess It would probably make sense for Thailand to sort of semi - section off the southern areas, like England does with Wales and Scotland. But it will still be part of a "Greater Thailand"........

[stumonster]

stop sending dictators down there whose aim is to buy that flash new mercedes ( or airbus)

beauracrats do not make good leaders, and just cause mommy and daddy had a lot of money does not make you a leader either.

a bit of respect for the people they are screwing might be a step in the right direction.

[ProfessorFart]

What can they do?

Listen to the Muslims. The general Thai attitude towards their Muslim brethren in the south makes the BNP and KKK look positively matey. A little cross cultural education and understanding may work a treat down South.

[crocodilexp]

[deleted]

[meom]

Somebody care to explain me where's the fun, food, pub and entertainment in this thread?

[Richard W]

- Mass detentions. You have to let them go, right? Mass repression and deportations of the whole populace (with support of the U.S., of course, otherwise the world might cry "human rights") are a reliable way to solve things, terribly inhumane as they are... provided they have somewhere to be deported, without causing more damage. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thailand would also need to prevent Malaysian air superiority to avoid another Kosovo. They'll have to get rid of the chicken flu if they're going to get Meteor-equipped Gripens to deal with the Malaysian MiG-29s. I suspect the Malaysians have the world's best MiG-29s. Of course, Thailand won't just have to deal with MiG-29s when (if) the gripens are delivered - see for example http://s96920072.onlinehome.us/Rev1/601-70...Nutz/rev667.htm!

It might be a good idea to stop the Royal Thai Police killing European tourists - perhaps the Malaysians would like to improve the accuracy of their bombs - Diamond Back.

[Narachon]

- Mass detentions. You have to let them go, right? Mass repression and deportations of the whole populace (with support of the U.S., of course, otherwise the world might cry "human rights") are a reliable way to solve things, terribly inhumane as they are... provided they have somewhere to be deported, without causing more damage. 

Thailand would also need to prevent Malaysian air superiority to avoid another Kosovo. They'll have to get rid of the chicken flu if they're going to get Meteor-equipped Gripens to deal with the Malaysian MiG-29s. I suspect the Malaysians have the world's best MiG-29s. Of course, Thailand won't just have to deal with MiG-29s when (if) the gripens are delivered - see for example http://s96920072.onlinehome.us/Rev1/601-70...Nutz/rev667.htm!

It might be a good idea to stop the Royal Thai Police killing European tourists - perhaps the Malaysians would like to improve the accuracy of their bombs - Diamond Back.

So you're saying that Malaysia has the better Air force? Exactly how would that be an important factor in dealing with the south of Thailand? What do you mean "Avoid another Kosovo"?

[stroll]

- More troops. Good. This won't solve the situation, but would make remaining Buddhists at least slightly safer, and be a deterrent. Turks solved the Kurdish problem by repression, it woks fine sometimes, but you have to be an important ally of a superpower.

- Mass detentions. You have to let them go, right? Mass repression and deportations of the whole populace (with support of the U.S., of course, otherwise the world might cry "human rights") are a reliable way to solve things, terribly inhumane as they are... provided they have somewhere to be deported, without causing more damage. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More troops: Sure, let's invite the US, it will be 'with us or against us' to 'liberate' the South from Muslims.

Mass detentions: Since there is nowhere to deport them to, better help them with their fasting and let them die as a result of weakness, eh?

Plonker

[Boh Bpen Yang]

None of the above.

Genuine Education

Not the typical "repeat after me" type and certainly not "if it isn't in the Quran you don't need to know it" type of education.

[cojones]

how can you deal with the muslims there now ? they are like Klingons ,

its too late , only a civil war would sort it out .

there is no going back from what has happened , its a fight to the death , but the Thais have one hand tied behind their back .

[Spee]

What do all expats thinks about something that could dramatically change the place we live in?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMHO, all of the above and none of the above.

These people most likely want what everyone else wants. That is a bit of freedom and autonomy, better education, an opportunity to earn enough money to feed, clothe and house their family, and all of this without fear of retribution.

How best to go about this in the short term is difficult to say. The best long term solutions may not create enough stability in the short term to allow them to happen. Unfortunately then police and/or military intervention may be needed.

I agree that some regional autonomy may be a good thing, but I disagree that creation of an independent state is the best thing. This may make things more unstable than they already are, and an independent state may not be able to function on its own (that is be able to generate sufficient political, economic and educational stability to make a stable future a certainty).

[Covertjay]

The problem is the Thai idea of a good education it is mindless rote learning, nationalism (verging on facist), blind monarchism, and historical revisionism (they made Angkor and there were no Jap troops here 60 years ago don't you know?).

SO even if they wanted to give the muslims good education they have no IDEA what it is!

And the rabid nationalism they confuse with academic thought IS what has

f$%ked up the south in the first place as "being Buddhist is essential to being Thai" (Field Marshall Pibun Songkram- Dictator and war time collaborator and alledged assasin of Rama VII)

[Sigur ros]

I vote the 2nd option.

Since BKK and the south don't think alike they should do each other a favour and get along 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Regional Autonomy does sounds good. After all, the region was once the great Pattani Sultanate, before it went into decline and was then annexed by Thailand in the early 20th century.

I guess It would probably make sense for Thailand to sort of semi - section off the southern areas, like England does with Wales and Scotland. But it will still be part of a "Greater Thailand"........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The situation in the Deep South is complicated and not the same as in England. There are many more problems and underlying conditions occur there. The Majority of Muslims in the Deep South do not want their Autonomy but the Muslim terrorists are exploiting those problems in an effort to seek their support and achieve their objectives and goals. It's not fair to blame Thai government.Thai government have fully supported all thai communities including Muslims. Give them all freedom of the way of life, freedom to practice their religion, their educational system-religious school etc, etc. These terrorists kill mostly innocent people, teachers, students, monks, buddhists and their own brothers muslims. All of them have nothing to do with the terrorists. Not these terrorist want only Autonomy, but they also want to protect their illegal interests and criminal activities as well as their local politics etc. Thai goverment treats their people in the same way. Looking at people in the Northeast of Thailand, they do not have much resources - no sea, a few forests, a lot of drought etc. Why are they still living their life peacefully?

[Covertjay]

Sigur.................a little history

There were rebellions in Issarn untill the end of the 19th century when half the population was wiped out and Vientiane burnt to the ground (and the emerald-actually Jade- Buddha stolen from the original Wat Pra Keaow).

A brief war with Lao in 1988 over insurgents and Chavalit's wife's land grab across the border.

Chiang Mai and Nan had SEPERATE kings and were independent until 1930.

Thai official history is naive and made to look like they haven't been raiding, stealing, murdering, and taking slaves since Angkor fell in 1431. Many countries have done this kind of thing but then most of them admit it.

They churn out false history because if Thais knew the truth they would loose a ton of face in the region.

As a Thai friend told me "a nice lie is better than the difficult truth".

[Phil Conners]

Why is everybody defending the Muslims?

We keep hearing that they don't want "infidels" or churches on the Arabian Peninsula and that anyone found there should be killed and bombed ... and yet we should allow them to stay everywhere building moskes, putting out loudspeakers so we have to hear their wailing every 4 hours (yes, even here in Pattaya).

I vote options 4 and 7.

Buh bye Mohammed!

[Sigur ros]

Covertjay,

Thanks for unsubstantial history lesson but how long have you been in Thailand? Sorry the story (i wont call history) in 1988 isn't about insurgents but about no man land thing. There were no rebellions against Thailand in Issarn, the Vientiane got a freedom from France and the Laos rebels fight against their own government not Thai governement. You don't really know what you're talking about, Covertjay. Regarding situation in the Deep South, There are hidden agenda and something deeper than what you learn from your Thai friend, mate.

Are you Muslim or what, Covertjay?

Sigur.................a little history

There were rebellions in Issarn untill the end of the 19th century when half the population was wiped out and Vientiane burnt to the ground (and the emerald-actually Jade- Buddha stolen from the original Wat Pra Keaow).

A brief war with Lao in 1988 over insurgents and Chavalit's wife's land grab across the border.

Chiang Mai and Nan had SEPERATE kings and were independent until 1930.

Thai official history is naive and made to look like they haven't been raiding, stealing, murdering, and taking slaves since Angkor fell in 1431. Many countries have done this kind of thing but then most of them admit it.

They churn out false history because if Thais knew the truth they would loose a ton of face in the region.

As a Thai friend told me "a nice lie is better than the difficult truth".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Sigur ros]

Why is everybody defending the Muslims?

We keep hearing that they don't want "infidels" or churches on the Arabian Peninsula and that anyone found there should be killed and bombed ... and yet we should allow them to stay everywhere building moskes, putting out loudspeakers so we have to hear their wailing every 4 hours (yes, even here in Pattaya).

I vote options 4 and 7.

Buh bye Mohammed!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is real madsere! Besides, they believe if they kill "infidels" they will go to heaven, no sin and there are a lot virgin women waiting to entertain them there. What a religion!

[Boh Bpen Yang]

Covertjay,

Thanks for unsubstantial history lesson but how long have you been in Thailand? Sorry the story (i wont call history) in 1988 isn't about insurgents but about no man land thing. There were no rebellions against Thailand in Issarn, the Vientiane got a freedom from France and the Laos separatists fight against their own government not Thai governement. You don't really what you're talking about, Covertjay. Regarding situation in the Deep South, There are hidden agenda and something deeper than what you learn from your Thai friend, mate.

Are you Muslim or what, Covertjay?

How deep? How hidden? Would you care to enlighten us?

[Collina]

Urgent: Please be VERY careful with this topic; it's borderline Bearpit.net as it is, but I do agree it's an interesting discussion IF we can all keep it respectful both towards each other and towards different religious or ethnic groups.

Thanks all, I know you can do it!

Ciao... PLC

[Covertjay]

"Thanks for unsubstantial history lesson but how long have you been in Thailand? Sorry the story (i wont call history) in 1988 isn't about insurgents but about no man land thing."

I've been in Thailand for 5 years and have a degree in Asian Politics. The 1988 conflict was over Gen. Chavalit's wife landgrab that was argued as a border demarcation conflict by the Thais, and some communist Lao insurgents trying to make contact with Issarn and Thai communists. I was told this by a former military attache to an embassy who is more privy to good information than you or I.

"There were no rebellions against Thailand in Issarn, the Vientiane got a freedom from France and the Laos rebels fight against their own government not Thai governement. "

Ya Mo's defense of Korat in the late 19th century was a definate Lao aided Issarn rebellion against Bangkok. Locals as well as Laotians were in the army she helped to get drunk and murder.

It is an historical fact that in revenge for this, Vientiane in the late 19th century was burnt to the ground by the future Rama I and the Emerald Buddha was taken and half the population of the city murdered. That's when the Lao king asked for French assistance.

I was talking about the late 19th century, not modern times.

"Are you Muslim or what, Covertjay?"

No I'm worse than that I'm a socialist. If you knew anything about Islam you would know that Sufism is a doctrine of love, not hate, don't write off a whole religion. It's just a forum.... chill out man.

"How deep? How hidden? Would you care to enlighten us?"

I want to know about the hidden agenda too! Maybe they just want back their independence that they had 100 years ago. Everybody wants freedom. Regardless of religion. Doin't feed into the cycle of hate, and have a nice day!

[meadish_sweetball]

Why is everybody defending the Muslims?

We keep hearing that they don't want "infidels" or churches on the Arabian Peninsula and that anyone found there should be killed and bombed ... and yet we should allow them to stay everywhere building moskes, putting out loudspeakers so we have to hear their wailing every 4 hours (yes, even here in Pattaya).

I vote options 4 and 7.

Buh bye Mohammed!

This is real madsere! Besides, they believe if they kill "infidels" they will go to heaven, no sin and there are a lot virgin women waiting to entertain them there. What a religion!

Hello Sigur Ros.

Please provide us with a reliable source for your statement that "most Muslims in the South don't want autonomy".

Your above post talking about "they" also refers to Muslims. You make no effort to differentiate between the terrorist faction, the people who want autonomy by peaceful means and the everyday Muslims on the street that just want to go about their business in peace. So if everyone believed they would go to heaven and have sex with virgins, howcome all of them do not try to terrorize Buddhist Thailand?

The more the Thai mainstream alienate the Muslims, the more problems they will get. It is time to look at yourself in the mirror and ask "Where did we go wrong and how can we solve it?", instead of moaning about the "savage" nature of Southerners.

[toastwars]

Why is everybody defending the Muslims?

We keep hearing that they don't want "infidels" or churches on the Arabian Peninsula and that anyone found there should be killed and bombed ... and yet we should allow them to stay everywhere building moskes, putting out loudspeakers so we have to hear their wailing every 4 hours (yes, even here in Pattaya).

I vote options 4 and 7.

Buh bye Mohammed!

This is real madsere! Besides, they believe if they kill "infidels" they will go to heaven, no sin and there are a lot virgin women waiting to entertain them there. What a religion!

And fundamentalist christians belive that if they bring about a appocalyptical conflict between the jews and the arabs, they will be lifted up to heaven to sit at gods side in the Rapture.

George w belives this, whats more scary, a man with unlimited arms and a zealots mind or a few loudspeakers disturbing your sleep, wake up you morons, you are being told what they want you to hear

[JemJem]

It's not so surprising that this type of topic immediately draws the bigots of the forum here...so now it's madsere and Sigur ros. By the way, Sigur, I asked a Muslim friend of mine...he said that in the Quran, there is no mention of such thing as virgins waiting for you once you die. I personally believe religion (all) is all a myth but I am just saying that what you wrote is false.

I personally believe that neither independence nor autonomy is the way. Status quo should continue but the authorites should be very careful regarding local sensitivities and dialogue is the key element in bringing of peace.

Very little percentage of the locals there are a part of or even sympatihse with the terrorists.....and as for terrorists, they should be shown no mercy.

Regards,

Jem

[ThaiGeared_HighThaied]

I am a muslim, and i know exactly what need to be done.

Autonomy is wrong thing to do, because thailand will lose

its control over the south

Common sense. Look at some Arab countries like Kuwait,

United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Saudi Arabia (most religious),

..... Why they are not warriors like Palastinies, Iraqis, Afghanis...

It is the MONEY. When you are financialy screwed,

you will also try to screw everyone else. If you have nothing,

you do fight, because simply you have nothing to lose and

everything (at least somthing) to gain.

Again, comon sense, Thai malay in south thailand

like to compare themselves with muslims malay in malaysia, and

ask why they are much much richer? consequently, they will

put all the blame on thai government

Doesn't thai government know about this. Ofcourse it is very

crestal clear to them.

But they don't seems to be able to financily support these

regions in the south, because Thailand itself is a poor

country.

May be it's time for thailand to get some help from

richer muslim countries or just any other countries, by purposing them

to invest in projects in the south differnet ways possible

Other way is sending them overseas to work as labour force in other

countries, especialy rich muslim countries, like what India, Philipine,

Indonesia, are doing now. keeping the boys out & busy is very good idea

.

[Nam Kao]

I want the US to get involved down their, planes, tanks, etc will quiet em down

[Axel]

I want the US to get involved down their, planes, tanks, etc will quiet em down

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hope it is a joke, unless you really believe freedom and democracy must be delivered on the wings of bomber planes and by guns of tanks.

[Covertjay]

I want the US to get involved down their, planes, tanks, etc will quiet em down

Good on ya.

Iraq will be Vietnam 2 and if they went into the south- Vietnam 3......

Hi teach weapons don't matter when the coffee seller rolls a grenade under your jeep.

The Iraqi tet offensive is coming. Who will be the new Nixon? Rumsfeld ought to know better as he's f#$ked up like this before in 'nam. New generation of messed up vet's too.

And when the King goes who will control Taksin? What if bombs go off in Phuket and BKK too? There's an election on the way too.

It's going to the streets people..........