Do We Expect Too Much From The Thai's Or Thailand?

[HASSELHOFF]

I notice alot of people talk about Thailand like all there standards should be like the west or they complain about it and call them stupid etc. Thailand is just out of 3rd world status, not by much though.

Thailand is an up and coming country and it will improve in all aspects. The customer sevice now compared to 20 years ago is 1000 times better, conditions of everthing is 1000 times better then 20 years ago etc.

I notice we also tend to compare the whole of the west to Thailand. But I dont see the need to. I mean what do you really expect from a country barely out of 3rd world status?

[boiledegg]

People also compare the good things about Thailand to wherever they're from.

Id say service staff is one area in which the Thais excel, so long as you dont expect them to be fluent in English.

Edited August 11, 2008 by boiledegg

[PeaceBlondie]

We should not try to impose all the standards of Western culture on a foreign nation. Perfect punctuality, for example, is not a trait common in many Western countries. We farang do waste too much time thinking about things over which we have no control. We often do not need to know why. We need not receive an answer to every frivolous or embarrassing question. Not every culture has social equality. We are only one generation or two ahead of the Thais on racial and national prejudice. Some of own countrymen cannot name countries of the world. We are more serious and enjoy life less. We are too materialist.

But I do love a good hamburger and chocolate milkshake.

[teacup]

No….Please don’t ….expect too much

Aim low …..so you won’t feel disappointed

However if Thailand doesn’t challenge itself, then the country won’t improve…..no matter at what decade from now, then the external challenges and demands from the west may be helpful....that if we want to still be part of the global world.

[qwertz]

Thailand gets by in its own way.

I think that most foreign visitors go there because like me they need a change from their regimented life.

There is however a serious need for improvement in the overall image; street cleaning and road repairs

don't have much priority there.

[Nignoy]

we should give thailand time to evolve and make its own way, do we want it to become a country with a population reliant on social security payments to live, like greater parts of the UK or the United States, it doesnt matter what country you are from, the politicians line their own pockets instead of looking after their constituents, over the last 45 years I have observed the change in attitude of the thai people towards farangs , and who can blaim them!!when we see the behaviour of our countrymen and women, I think lots of thai people are starting to treat us ,as wehave been treating them !!

[Carib]

I don't think that every " improvement" is always an improvement. I for one absolutely don't need or want all the " first" world things.

I cannot deny that I was brought up in a western way, with a western mind and western habits, but boy am i happy i can leave some of them behind me.

Our Western civilization has also brought us a lot of misery, war , civil wars, whatever, and still going strong on that part.

We can blame Thailand for not having this or that , but at least they are not so "civilized" to be at that game.

I think a lot of people mean well, by saying that they want to change things for the better, because we want people to have the same " good" life as we have, but do we really have a good life?, or are we sometimes more or less victims of our western habits.

[geriatrickid]

In terms of capital expenditures on infrastucture (roads, railways, public buildings etc.) it is both unfair and unrealistic to expect "western" levels from Thailand for the simple reason that the money just isn't there to pay for it. Resource rich countries like Canada have billions rolling in from their resources. Canada can afford to fund its welfare state. Even the technically bankrupt USA still has vast resources that can be called upon if and when the citizens realize some tough decisions need to be made as FDR did in the dirty 30's. EU nations had centuries of colonial exploitation to gather their wealth. Thailand only has agriculture and its shrinking forest reserves. Hardly the resource base to bring in the money to pay for all the goodies found in the west. It's oil is imported and that drains the nations FX.

Where Thailand can be held accountable is in respect to its human resources. The failure to invest in education is costing it dearly. There is no intellectual capital of significance. Nothing unique or groundbreaking comes from Thai universities in the same way it is churned out from countries like Israel and the USA. In that regard Thailand must be held accountable. It should be exceeding western standards, which really isn't that hard to do when one considers the hordes of illiterates that leave secondary schools in the west every year.

Perhaps a lesson can be learnt from China. Once poor and 3rd world, it channeled resources into set industries and education. Today, China is benefiting from that investment of educated millions coupled with a labour force eager to work.

[garro]

I think that many of us in the West have been brought up with the silly idea that what we have to say is always important. I have seen many westerners profess their love of Thailand, but yet look upon the locals as somehow less evolved than themselves. They see the west as the first world and Thailand as a background nation well behind them in all things. They find this backwardness quaint so long as it suits them, but if it gets in there way ( e.g. their pizza take away is late being delivered) then they start to experience culture shock. They fail to realise that Thailand, or other country, is not less developed but just a different culture. I think that it is this failure to accept that Thailand is different and not backward that is the greatest stumbling block to people adjusting to life in Thailand.

[MiG16]

i havent read all the posts

BUT

I have seen also on other thread people complain about customer service in thailand?

this baffles me..... Ive been to a few other countries...and I havent seen other places that do better. including the west, but in particular if you compare to countries in asia.... Malaysia is far worse...staff at hotels and taxis are in some cases extremely rude (even at 5star hotels), in other at best mediocre. if you compare the service at equivalent level (taking away the price...for example 5 star hotel to 5 star hotel thailand vs malaysia) then you get far better service in thailand.

you compare street level to street level restaurants - even here you get better service in thailand.

my recent experience - cleanliness of McDonald (Silom branch across the road from red light district on a busy night) vs McDonald in Kings Cross (red light district of Sydney on a busy night) - the sydney one fares much worse.

so put it down to personal experience - but Id choose thailand's customer service over other places I have been to

[LivinLOS]

No….Please don’t ….expect too much

Aim low …..so you won’t feel disappointed

Is that really the motto Thailand wants to live by ??

[RakJungTorlae]

i havent read all the posts

BUT

I have seen also on other thread people complain about customer service in thailand?

this baffles me..... Ive been to a few other countries...and I havent seen other places that do better. including the west, but in particular if you compare to countries in asia.... Malaysia is far worse...staff at hotels and taxis are in some cases extremely rude (even at 5star hotels), in other at best mediocre. if you compare the service at equivalent level (taking away the price...for example 5 star hotel to 5 star hotel thailand vs malaysia) then you get far better service in thailand.

you compare street level to street level restaurants - even here you get better service in thailand.

my recent experience - cleanliness of McDonald (Silom branch across the road from red light district on a busy night) vs McDonald in Kings Cross (red light district of Sydney on a busy night) - the sydney one fares much worse.

so put it down to personal experience - but Id choose thailand's customer service over other places I have been to

It would all depend on the vibe you give people being a male or female having a reputation as well. The level of service will increase to your favor. It all ready depended on who you are. Some people have got it. Some people have not. so be it..

Never the less. I think people expect way to much out of Thailand. As teacup said its better not to expect anything except expect the unexpected and you will enjoy your self more. That goes for most people traveling to another country. You should prepare for the worst and hope for the best.^^ but getting your self over existed in any situation will could lead to big disappointment.

Why compare the west to Asia it's. And I thought I was bored… the farthest I have ever compared something Its Mac chesses burgers in 10 countries. For me they seem to taste all the same

Edited August 12, 2008 by RakJungTorlae

[RakJungTorlae]

No….Please don't ….expect too much

Aim low …..so you won't feel disappointed

Is that really the motto Thailand wants to live by ??

I don’t think it’s a motto I thought it would be common sense?

[sgunn65]

It is human nature to compare. It is also silly to expect that people will not compare their home country with Thailand just as it is silly to expect tourists not to compare the price of a tee shirt to home. That is what we do.

I tend to look at things from a Western viewpoint as I run a business working to western standards with clients who expect western standards. This is a hard task but not impossible with constant training repitition and encouragement towards our Thai staff.

Thailand is not the UK and there is good and bad in both. Is it so wrong to look at a system that is not working and not think that there is a better way to do this?? I look at the BTS and wonder how London Underground can have the cheek to proudly boast of their efficiency and at the same time hold my hands to my head in despair at some of the idiocy I have to put up with here!

[PhilHarries]

Do the Thais care what we expect of them? Thailand is a land run by Thais for Thais. We visitors are tolerated at best provided we bring our money, pay our dues and don't rock the boat.

Having said that there is nothing wrong in conveying our thoughs and expectations without expecting anything to change. There are areas where Thailand could do with improvement, not necessarily judged against western ideals, and left to there own devices they will get there. But there are areas where they could do with a little nudge to get things moving as long as we don't expect them to produce a clone of <insert nation>.

btw IMO there is one area where Thailand has produced more than I expected or wanted and that's all these fast food outlets, coffee places and western style supermarkets. I don't need them but that's just me.

[mizzi39]

i havent read all the posts

BUT

I have seen also on other thread people complain about customer service in thailand?

this baffles me..... Ive been to a few other countries...and I havent seen other places that do better. including the west, but in particular if you compare to countries in asia.... Malaysia is far worse...staff at hotels and taxis are in some cases extremely rude (even at 5star hotels), in other at best mediocre. if you compare the service at equivalent level (taking away the price...for example 5 star hotel to 5 star hotel thailand vs malaysia) then you get far better service in thailand.

you compare street level to street level restaurants - even here you get better service in thailand.

my recent experience - cleanliness of McDonald (Silom branch across the road from red light district on a busy night) vs McDonald in Kings Cross (red light district of Sydney on a busy night) - the sydney one fares much worse.

so put it down to personal experience - but Id choose thailand's customer service over other places I have been to

I agree. I have always found Thailand to have good customer service, especially in the provinces. The U.S. UK, and many other western countries fail in comparison. In the west you often get the impression that the person providing the customer service is doing you a FAVOR instead of doing their JOB.

[PeaceBlondie]

So we should avoid the inevitable comparison of Phuket to Pittsburgh and Chiang Mai to Chicago. What we, as farang, expect of Thailand is irrelevant. But what should Thais expect of their own country?

[klikster]

Some of own countrymen cannot name countries of the world.

Can you name "the countries of the world" .. without the assistance of the web .. or reference books?

Edited August 12, 2008 by klikster

[Theyreallrubbish]

Often the differences can be beneficial in one situation and detrimental in the next.

The easy going attitude to punctuality is great when a Thai spends extra time with you and helping you. Its not so great when he turns up late because he's spent extra time with someone else.

The low productivity of most of the work force is great when it provides lots of cheap staff to run minor errands. Its not so great when you need to hire far more staff than you think you should really need.

Even endemic corruption is terrific when you get away with paying a couple of dollars to get off a traffic violation. Not so great when the brand new road you're driving on is full of pot holes.

And the paternalistic system of trading favors is terrific when a big shot helps you with something that would ordinarily be difficult, but suddenly becomes easy. Its not so great when a connected person gets something you want or stops you doing something you want.

I just try and look at the positive side of all these situations and others that arise. I have a better time because of it and it makes no difference to the final result.

I would also argue that Thailand has actually been pretty well governed overall. The infrastructure is pretty good relative to per capita GDP. The health system is very good for such a poor country and even the education system achieves 99% literacy which is very good for such a poor country

[GuestHouse]

I think that most, but by no means all, Farangs in Thailand get far more out of Thailand than they expected (I'll not go into whether that is a good thing or not).

But I also think that the vast majority of Farangs who arrive in Thailand arrive with unrealistic expectations - There heads full of myths about the place and their eyes tight shut to reality.

[poshthai]

no

[Maigo6]

People do have some unrealistic views of Thailand.

Many Farangs think of themselves as lords and masters over the natives, then they have to bow and grovel and jump through hoops to get Visas etc, the reality sets in, they see Thai people with untold wealth driving around in Cars that cost more than the Farangs total life savings, living in houses worth 20 - 30 Million baht, wondering how Thai people have the nerve to be richer than a Farang....LOL

I hear many Farangs bang on about Corruption, yet when they are stopped for speeding or drink driving in Thailand and drive off after paying what is the equivalent of a packet of cigarettes in UK to a Policeman, they rub their hands with glee thinking that if it had happened in their home countries, they would be in serious &lt;deleted&gt;.

To many Farangs, selective corruption that benefits themselves is perfectly acceptable, whereas corruption at a high level that makes certain Thai people rich is not. Yet corruption has been making people rich in the western world since the year dot, in countries like Thailand, it's just more open, and as Farangs are excluded a share in the Pie, they can get somewhat pizzed off.

Being totally powerless in a 3rd world or developing country is just too much to bear for some people.

[roygsd]

I notice alot of people talk about Thailand like all there standards should be like the west or they complain about it and call them stupid etc. Thailand is just out of 3rd world status, not by much though.

Thailand is an up and coming country and it will improve in all aspects. The customer sevice now compared to 20 years ago is 1000 times better, conditions of everthing is 1000 times better then 20 years ago etc.

I notice we also tend to compare the whole of the west to Thailand. But I dont see the need to. I mean what do you really expect from a country barely out of 3rd world status?

I dont know who you are speaking for when you say "WE", each persons expections, opinions and experiences should be measured on their own merits, rather than a blanket approach.

I dont know why you are suprised that some people ( presumably westerners?) compare LOS to the western world, if they originate from the westrern world it is perectly natural for them to do so, if the originate from China, India, Japan, Iceland Argentina or just about any other country in the world quite likely their own country is all they have to compare LOS with.

As for your other sweeping statement about calling " them" stupid, are you refering to the standards in LOS or Thai people?

If you are referring to standards then I dont think many people will disagree that in some areas of thai administation or governance the lack of logic, practicallity or plain common sense might reasonably be called stupid.

Similarly if you are refering to the lack of logic,or plain common sense by some thai people in their dealings with other people then whilst they may not actually be stupid their attitude could very well be discribed as such.

For example, the need to leave LOS every 90 days to renew your visa, there is no practical reason why this service could not be provided from within LOS, is it that unreasonable that some might discribe that enormous waste of time, effort and money as "Stupid"?

For example when I saw a thai man putting poisoned meat out for some dogs on the beach in Samui a few years ago and asked him if he was a buddhist (and he confirmed he was) enquired how he balanced killing these dogs with his buddhist beliefs his initial response was to deny killing the dogs.

When I went on to explain I had seen him apply the poison to the meat and threw it to the dogs as he was less than 3 feet away from me when he did so, he beamed a smile of relief and said Quote " Ahh, I UNDERSTAND YOUR MISTAKE SIR, I DIDNT KILL THE DOGS, THEY CHOSE TO DIE, THEY DIDNT HAVE TO EAT THE MEAT"!

I supect this type of thinking/ response is a typical eample of why some people could be excused for calling a person expressing such views as " stupid".

By the way I didnt call the man stupid, instead I apologised for my error and told we destroy dogs in a slightly different way in the uk, when he asked how we did it I explaned that we loaded a revolver and place it on the groud and if the dog picked it up and held it against their head and pulled the trigger then we also consider the dog choose to die........ he got the point, ....eventually.

I do not suggest that the majority of Thai people are stupid, but neither I would not argue with anyone who suggested that many Thai's do stupid things or hold views that defy logic and lack basic common sense.

I think the point you were eluding to is the lack of respect for some thai ways by some farangs, inmy view respect ie earned rather than automatic, and try as I might, its hard if not impossible to respect practices, procedure's that are often at variance with natural justice or, if you prefer, may be lacking in respect for others and plain common sense.

Stupid is as Stupid does, changes for the better dont just happen, if it were not for the many people who questioned the wisdom of practices that had existed for centuries Slavery and many other unsavoury practices would still exist today, it is healthy to question outdated thinking.

A prime example of lack of natural justice is the case of Toxic's maid who will be the only one going to jail, if ever there was a case for a Royal Pardon that maid deseves one, bearing in mind Mr T's human rights record is it reasonalbe to expect the maid to refuse to comply with her employers instructions/requests?

Perhaps you should be praising rather than admonishing those who you are so critical of?

Roy gsd

[roygsd]

No….Please don’t ….expect too much

Aim low …..so you won’t feel disappointed

However if Thailand doesn’t challenge itself, then the country won’t improve…..no matter at what decade from now, then the external challenges and demands from the west may be helpful....that if we want to still be part of the global world.

roy gsd

[Scalawag]

"The failure to invest in education is costing it dearly. There is no intellectual capital of significance. Nothing unique or groundbreaking comes from Thai universities "

I couldn't agree more.................Until Thailand begins to value education more, they will remain a country struggling to keep up with the rest of the world...............

[Carib]

"The failure to invest in education is costing it dearly. There is no intellectual capital of significance. Nothing unique or groundbreaking comes from Thai universities "

I couldn't agree more.................Until Thailand begins to value education more, they will remain a country struggling to keep up with the rest of the world...............

I do know what you mean, but look what we have done in the world despite all our education, I sometimes wonder if it is worth it, to keep up with.

[ade100]

I notice alot of people talk about Thailand like all there standards should be like the west or they complain about it and call them stupid etc. Thailand is just out of 3rd world status, not by much though.

Thailand is an up and coming country and it will improve in all aspects. The customer sevice now compared to 20 years ago is 1000 times better, conditions of everthing is 1000 times better then 20 years ago etc.

I notice we also tend to compare the whole of the west to Thailand. But I dont see the need to. I mean what do you really expect from a country barely out of 3rd world status?

OP, what is it that makes you think Thailand is no longer a Thrid World Country? Do you have any reference for this? Are you saying it is First World? (Obviously it can't be Second World as that refers to the old Warsaw Pack countries). Just curious...

[ourmaninbangers]

Do the Thais care what we expect of them? Thailand is a land run by Thais for Thais. We visitors are tolerated at best provided we bring our money, pay our dues and don't rock the boat.

Having said that there is nothing wrong in conveying our thoughs and expectations without expecting anything to change. There are areas where Thailand could do with improvement, not necessarily judged against western ideals, and left to there own devices they will get there. But there are areas where they could do with a little nudge to get things moving as long as we don't expect them to produce a clone of <insert nation>.

btw IMO there is one area where Thailand has produced more than I expected or wanted and that's all these fast food outlets, coffee places and western style supermarkets. I don't need them but that's just me.

thailand is not run by thais- but by the foreign investors. The aid donors, etc.

The west has been, good and bad manipulating but thailand for years