My English Surname On Daughters Thai Birth Certificate?

[cwkid]

Hello

I've just been to the local government office and have been told that my new born daughter cannot have my English surname on her birth certificate as I am not officially married to my Thai partner.

Searching this forum there seems to be loads of un-married English guys who have their surname for their babies surname also.

However I am wondering if any laws have changed recently or if I am just being told a load of crap by the people in this office?

I understand I cannot have my name written in English as the fathers name and this has to be changed in to Thai is that correct?

Many thanks for any advise you can give.

Edit: The other thing they told me to do which I have done, was to have my UK Passport photo page translated in to Thai.

Edited August 13, 2008 by cwkid

[cwkid]

It gets worse, my partner phoned a Thai government help line of some description and the lady there also said if we are unmarried then the baby must take the mothers surname.

Has anyone been through this process recently? Has the law on this changed recently?

I've emailed the British Embassy in Bangkok to see what they say, will have to wait for them to contact me.

Cheers

[matcube]

Hi, since no informed reply yet, I can tell you that I had two kids in Thailand, unmarried, the last one 18 months ago. No problem whatsoever for registering, but I could see it may depend on the local office and the people you are dealing with.

This is not an up-to-date information but I am pretty sure nothing has changed since, so don't worry too much and keep it cool while you wait for more detailed and informative replies.

matcube

[richm7]

You are being told a load of crap. In Thailand you can use any old name you like. My daughter has my name and me and her mother were not married at the time. My (now) wife's surname is different from both her parents surnames (for complicated and, for this discussion, irrelevant reasons).

In fact, the first attempt at my daughters birth certificate was a mess because they used my middle name as her surname (family name for you yanks). I told them to reissue it correctly and they did.

[mizzi39]

It gets worse, my partner phoned a Thai government help line of some description and the lady there also said if we are unmarried then the baby must take the mothers surname.

Has anyone been through this process recently? Has the law on this changed recently?

I've emailed the British Embassy in Bangkok to see what they say, will have to wait for them to contact me.

Cheers

Contact a local attorney. For a small fee they should be able to sort this out for you. My situation is different since I am married and both my wife and baby have my surname. I never heard of having to translate your passport page into Thai. The baby's BC is in Thai, but i also have an English translation.

When a friend of mine went to register his baby, he was told that the baby could not have an English first or last name. He new this was a bunch of bull shit, so he hired a local attorney and the matter was sorted out within 48 hours. Good luck! report back on your findings.

Edited August 13, 2008 by mizzi39

[cwkid]

Hi guys many thanks for the replies, they give me some confidence. I knew they were talking <deleted> in that office. Not sure why the woman on the phone on the help line said the same thing however?

My partner did speak to her friend this afternoon who is a lawyer, he said something about going to a judge and some paperwork saying I am the father. It all seems stupid to me I said to the misses let go to the hospital and have a DNA test done and wave that under their noses. I did kick off a bit to the misses, when they suggest I translate my passport page, as it an international document and one of the best passports in the world. Maybe that's why they said no in this office.

Think I am going back tomorrow demand to see their top boss and get this mess sorted out, I'm pissed off as you can probably tell.

Does anyone else have any experience with similar situations?

My fiancee and I plan to get official married in England late next year when we return I fail to see why we should have to change our plans for red tape and bull shit.

Cheers

Edited August 13, 2008 by cwkid

[matcube]

My other suggestion is to try to keep it low profile and calm. The more you will escalate it, the more trouble you are going to face. I am sure there are other people more experienced than me on this forum, but in the occasions I had to deal with Thai bureaucracy it wasn't the law that made the day, but kindness, patience, and smiles. I hope you may be able to "win" also by taking the "enforcing the law" path, but I suspect it is going to be much longer, harder, and frustrating, and what for? for that final feeling of consumed revenge / rightgousness that is sweet but also bitter, and not lasting.

[cwkid]

Yeah I know what you are saying about being calm not something I can always do however.

Can I just go to any office and register the baby i.e in another town? We live in a smallish village and had the baby down the road in the next big town.

We were told we could not register the baby in our villages government office because we had the baby in the town down the road. And we had to go to that town to do it.

I said to my partner what if we were on holiday in Phuket and had the baby there, would we have to go back to Phuket to register the birth, seems daft to me.

[mgjackson69]

You are being told a load of crap. In Thailand you can use any old name you like. My daughter has my name and me and her mother were not married at the time. My (now) wife's surname is different from both her parents surnames (for complicated and, for this discussion, irrelevant reasons).

In fact, the first attempt at my daughters birth certificate was a mess because they used my middle name as her surname (family name for you yanks). I told them to reissue it correctly and they did.

That last point does not surprise me....for the first couple of years that we were together, my girlfriend (now wife) was certain that my family name/surname was "G Jackson"

[IMA_FARANG]

Hi guys many thanks for the replies, they give me some confidence. I knew they were talking <deleted> in that office. Not sure why the woman on the phone on the help line said the same thing however?

My partner did speak to her friend this afternoon who is a lawyer, he said something about going to a judge and some paperwork saying I am the father. It all seems stupid to me I said to the misses let go to the hospital and have a DNA test done and wave that under their noses. I did kick off a bit to the misses, when they suggest I translate my passport page, as it an international document and one of the best passports in the world. Maybe that's why they said no in this office.

Think I am going back tomorrow demand to see their top boss and get this mess sorted out, I'm pissed off as you can probably tell.

Does anyone else have any experience with similar situations?

My fiancee and I plan to get official married in England late next year when we return I fail to see why we should have to change our plans for red tape and bull shit.

Cheers

You can get the birth certificate in your surname. it may take your partner officially declaring that you are the father. You should be going to the British embessy with the evidence they require to declare the child your daughter. I'm assuming that you:

1. Really are the father

2. You and your partner both really want this girl to be half Thai and half British.

3. And both of you have thought about what the advantages and disadvantages of her being a Thai/British mixture. (There may be problems with Thai I.D. cards and schooling if she grows up in Thailand).

Best advice I can give you...keep your cool and don't let the petty people who you have to deal with get to you. Just smile, and insist on what you both want, but be polite about it.

Please be absolutely sure your partner also thinks the child having your surname is a good idea. Ask her point blank.

The reason I mention that is the experience of my frirnd. He was married to a Thai. They had a daughter who grew up in Bangkok, He worked outside Thailand until he retired. He had always planned to take his daughter back to the U.S.A. after he retired. When it came time to go, he was quite shocked that his daughter had no interest in going to the U.S. She had grown up in Thailand, gone to Thai schools, and spoke English only as a second language. At that time she was 18 years old, had a Thai boyfriend, and didn't see why she should give up her life/friends/boyfriend/and culture in Thailand.

Just a word to the wise. I would give your daughter your name on her birth certificate. But don't force her into a choice of being a nationality she might not be comfortable with later on. Let her make the decision when she is old enough to decide for herself.

But give her the choice.

Good luck.

[cwkid]

Hi guys many thanks for the replies, they give me some confidence. I knew they were talking <deleted> in that office. Not sure why the woman on the phone on the help line said the same thing however?

My partner did speak to her friend this afternoon who is a lawyer, he said something about going to a judge and some paperwork saying I am the father. It all seems stupid to me I said to the misses let go to the hospital and have a DNA test done and wave that under their noses. I did kick off a bit to the misses, when they suggest I translate my passport page, as it an international document and one of the best passports in the world. Maybe that's why they said no in this office.

Think I am going back tomorrow demand to see their top boss and get this mess sorted out, I'm pissed off as you can probably tell.

Does anyone else have any experience with similar situations?

My fiancee and I plan to get official married in England late next year when we return I fail to see why we should have to change our plans for red tape and bull shit.

Cheers

You can get the birth certificate in your surname. it may take your partner officially declaring that you are the father. You should be going to the British embessy with the evidence they require to declare the child your daughter. I'm assuming that you:

1. Really are the father

2. You and your partner both really want this girl to be half Thai and half British.

3. And both of you have thought about what the advantages and disadvantages of her being a Thai/British mixture. (There may be problems with Thai I.D. cards and schooling if she grows up in Thailand).

Best advice I can give you...keep your cool and don't let the petty people who you have to deal with get to you. Just smile, and insist on what you both want, but be polite about it.

Please be absolutely sure your partner also thinks the child having your surname is a good idea. Ask her point blank.

The reason I mention that is the experience of my frirnd. He was married to a Thai. They had a daughter who grew up in Bangkok, He worked outside Thailand until he retired. He had always planned to take his daughter back to the U.S.A. after he retired. When it came time to go, he was quite shocked that his daughter had no interest in going to the U.S. She had grown up in Thailand, gone to Thai schools, and spoke English only as a second language. At that time she was 18 years old, had a Thai boyfriend, and didn't see why she should give up her life/friends/boyfriend/and culture in Thailand.

Just a word to the wise. I would give your daughter your name on her birth certificate. But don't force her into a choice of being a nationality she might not be comfortable with later on. Let her make the decision when she is old enough to decide for herself.

But give her the choice.

Good luck.

Yes I am the father, if not she looks alot like me lol.

We both would like her to be dual nationality. Having Thai and British passports, birth certificates.

What are the disadvantages? She would have the best of both worlds and could come and go between them as she pleases.

My partner seems more than happy for the new baby to take my surname.

We plan to raise our children in the UK initially, I also have a step daughter who has spent the last 3 years in England!

My thai partner is already missing England, god only knows why because I am not but money will dictate our return to the UK for work for me.

I think a UK education is best but I want both our girls to be able to communicate in Thai and imagine that they might go to University in Thailand when they are older it that's what they want.

I'll have to go through all the hassle of changing my step daughter's name after we are married next year, perhaps deed poll is the easiest route rather than adoption and tracking down the father who is, who knows where.

Don't get me wrong I love Thailand and could live here for a long time but we all have bills to pay for.

Slightly off topic but hey!

I really want to hear from someone who has put his surname on his babies birth certificate recently.

Cheers!

Edited August 13, 2008 by cwkid

[cwkid]

Well what can you do? This is Thailand after all! I'm gonna go back to that office in the morning, insist that they are wrong and that I am having my surname on my daughters birth certificate. I will try to keep calm and be polite but I wont take crap off anyone. I'll let you know how I get on!

Cheers

Edit: The other thing I read on the British Embassy website is that what ever name is on the Thai birth certificate is the name that they use. So I gotta get it right with these Thai officials in this office.

Edited August 13, 2008 by cwkid

[cwkid]

Well I finally have a Thai birth certificate with my surname on it, took 3 days and lots of hassle for nothing as far as I can see.

This is how we did it. We first went to another office in the same town that also does birth registrations but for another area I think. We spoke to a very helpful man there who said it was rubbish and there was no reason what so ever we could not use my surname if thats what we wanted and it made no difference if we were married or not married.

He called the problem office and told them that they should do it. I was then told we would have to translate the thai documents from the hospital in to English, totally stupid if you ask me and in the end they never even looked at them, but there you go least I have an English copy now for later use.

We went back to the problem office, took the baby with us this time as well and also a thai lawyer friend for good measure. I told them via the misses that I would not take no for an answer and that they were using my surname as my daughters surname on the birth certificate or I would take them to court, they seemed to recognise our lawyer friend, so I guess he's been doing work in that office before.

A few discussions later between the staff and a bit of waiting we were then given a birth certificate with the correct names in thai language. I then had the birth certificate translated back in to English for the British Embassy which is the next step. Plan to get a British style birth certificate and British passport.

We also had the baby added to the blue house book today and was also told I could not be issued with the yellow book with my name as me and my partner are not officially married, is that correct?

Does anyone know where to go to get a thai passport for an infant? And can you have a middle name in that Thai passport?

I can't believe we have had so much trouble, I guess either the people in that office are stupid and don't know what they are doing or they just didn't like the look of us.

Thanks again for your advice.

[soihok]

Fair Play CW !

Its great to hear that some one took the bull by its horns and let the forum know of the outcome.

I was in the same situation as you with my daughter, I did ,nt see it was a problem until Mrs Soihok and myself got married.

So she had my name and the kid was still on her old name,,,difficulty came getting the British passport as her surname we wanted was not as her birth cert.

We overcame this by changing her name by deed poll. She still has the Thai surname on her birth cert.

Thanks for the info.

Good luck

[soihok]

As far as I know A thai passport can only be issued in Bangkok,,but I only know from experience of Issan residents.

Cheers

[mahtin]

As far as I know A thai passport can only be issued in Bangkok,,but I only know from experience of Issan residents.

Cheers

My wife got a Thai passport for our then 6-month old son to come to Europe. At that time the offices for this were a short taxi ride from the old Don Muang airport.

Years later I got him a British passport from the consulate in Düsseldorf. The official paper from the British Embassy in Bangkok, registering his birth with my surname, came in useful for that. He now has dual nationality.

Incidentally my wife registered the birth in Khon Kaen with my surname with no problem, and I was in Germany at the time.

Oh yeah, and we didn't get married until 7 weeks after the birth, earliest I could get there.

[orpheus454]

As far as I know A thai passport can only be issued in Bangkok,,but I only know from experience of Issan residents.

Cheers

No. In the south they can be obtained at either Surat Thani or Songkla. I'd imagine other regions would have their issuing centres as well.

[mizzi39]

Well I finally have a Thai birth certificate with my surname on it, took 3 days and lots of hassle for nothing as far as I can see.

This is how we did it. We first went to another office in the same town that also does birth registrations but for another area I think. We spoke to a very helpful man there who said it was rubbish and there was no reason what so ever we could not use my surname if thats what we wanted and it made no difference if we were married or not married.

He called the problem office and told them that they should do it. I was then told we would have to translate the thai documents from the hospital in to English, totally stupid if you ask me and in the end they never even looked at them, but there you go least I have an English copy now for later use.

We went back to the problem office, took the baby with us this time as well and also a thai lawyer friend for good measure. I told them via the misses that I would not take no for an answer and that they were using my surname as my daughters surname on the birth certificate or I would take them to court, they seemed to recognise our lawyer friend, so I guess he's been doing work in that office before.

A few discussions later between the staff and a bit of waiting we were then given a birth certificate with the correct names in thai language. I then had the birth certificate translated back in to English for the British Embassy which is the next step. Plan to get a British style birth certificate and British passport.

We also had the baby added to the blue house book today and was also told I could not be issued with the yellow book with my name as me and my partner are not officially married, is that correct?

Does anyone know where to go to get a thai passport for an infant? And can you have a middle name in that Thai passport?

I can't believe we have had so much trouble, I guess either the people in that office are stupid and don't know what they are doing or they just didn't like the look of us.

Thanks again for your advice.

Nice to hear that you got everything sorted!

[undercover]

Does anyone know if you give your child an English name can it be written in English on the birth certificate or is it law it has to be in Thai ?

[philo]

My daughter got a Thai passport in Khon Kaen. 15 minutes: mothers ID, childs BC, a cumputer photo, a stamp by her right big toe (TIT) and around 1000 baht. I was having a beer outside ... The passport was ready in 2 less then weeks.

[mizzi39]

Does anyone know if you give your child an English name can it be written in English on the birth certificate or is it law it has to be in Thai ?

I believe that the answer to your question is no, or at least I have never heard of a child's English name being written in English on his/her Thai BC. My son has both an English first and last name, but it is translated in Thai on his BC. You can go to an authorized translator and get the BC. translated into English for about 100-150 baht.

[CharlieB]

Does anyone know if you give your child an English name can it be written in English on the birth certificate or is it law it has to be in Thai ?

It has to be in Thai script. Be careful though, as with the others above, I had problems registering my daughter. No problem with them putting my name as father, or babies name as mine, but they mistakenly took the translation of my passport and wrote her surname as citizen.... straight from the translation of the passport, which had the bit about UK citizen. It took me 3 days to get this overturned. The local amphur office said we would have to go to Bangkok to change her name. Eventually, we went back to the original office, in Khon Kane, I spoke with someone in authority, explained the issue and they did a new birth certificate.

[HorseDoctor]

And the baby should have the father's name, why?

It seems to me as a baby comes out of a woman, she's carried it for nine months- she should have the choice of naming it.

Maybe your partner thinks so too but hasn't told you. Perhaps she doesn't want her child to be a cubject of Thai racism that is prevalent toward " Farang"

it's just plain 'ol sexism to continue this practice of forcing women to name babies after a sexual partner .

[Cuban]

As far as I know A thai passport can only be issued in Bangkok,,but I only know from experience of Issan residents.

Sorry this is not correct. There are regional passport offices around Thailand, a Thai subject needs their house book and ID card to have a passport issued, just ID card and old passport for a re-issue or other change, new passports cost about 1,200 Baht (2005 price).

Passports do not have to be issued in the province of residence - Thai nationals can use any regional office for their passport. Source: Recent experiance.

Does anyone know if you give your child an English name can it be written in English on the birth certificate or is it law it has to be in Thai?

I don't have direct experiance with a Thai birth certificate, but other formal Thai certificates and forms - including my work permit - the English name is translated into Thai. I would suggest when you do this - show the Thai transliteration to a few people to see how they pronounce it and then tweak the spelling as required. There are a number of ways of spelling the same word.

[dave_boo]

FWIW, when my lady went to get her passport, she had to do it in Bangkok although she's a resident of Nakhon Sawan.

When our baby was born in Sri Sawan (Nakhon Sawan) I simply supplied the passport, they asked the mum what name was to be put on the certificate, they translated it via someone else (actually we already had the given name in Thai script it was the surname-last name for us Yanks-that needed translated) and brought it back for approval. The birth certificate was ready the day they were released from the hospital. A few days later we took it to the local amphur and added the baby to the house book.

Also, I can't swear to it, but I'm fairly certain her nationality is listed as Thai. It would seem odd that a birth certificate would be issued tto a child unless it was a citizen, thus raising questions as to why they messed up on the one poster.