Behaviour Programmed By Soap Operas

[sylviex]

QUOTE (DualCitizen @ 2008-08-14 13:32:09) Well, much of the "Hi-so" set are pretty dam_n superficial. And this attitude spills over to the soap operas that dominate the airwaves, and consequently gets programmed into the minds of the masses. You would be surprised by the inane behavior mechanisms that get programmed into Thai women from these dam_n soap operas!

Here..Here..well said....my Thai is not that good, but have watched some of the facial expressions and mannerisms on these soap operas...after which realised my darling wife was copying them....

I find this theory very interesting. Can you elaborate on how you see this happening and give examples ? What about men -- are they affected, too ? (I think they are less likely to watch soaps ?). At what age do girls/boys begin to watch soaps here ?

[RakJungTorlae]

QUOTE (DualCitizen @ 2008-08-14 13:32:09) Well, much of the "Hi-so" set are pretty dam_n superficial. And this attitude spills over to the soap operas that dominate the airwaves, and consequently gets programmed into the minds of the masses. You would be surprised by the inane behavior mechanisms that get programmed into Thai women from these dam_n soap operas!

Here..Here..well said....my Thai is not that good, but have watched some of the facial expressions and mannerisms on these soap operas...after which realised my darling wife was copying them....

I find this theory very interesting. Can you elaborate on how you see this happening and give examples ? What about men -- are they affected, too ? (I think they are less likely to watch soaps ?). At what age do girls/boys begin to watch soaps here ?

Yeah I believe this. I have seen soaps change the minds and behavior of a whole generation of Koreans. They love there soaps .there very entertaining, for the men I think they get annoyed a bit. In Korea after the soaps brain washed people they called it "princess disease" as a joke slang.

So I can see the same thing happening in Thailand as we speak,

Edit: well Bkk anyway.

Edited August 14, 2008 by RakJungTorlae

[sgtpeppers]

Thais love the rape scenes in soaps for some reason. They are used as a form of 'punishment' for the bad girl.

Ratings across all age levels skyrocket when there is a rape scene.

[Andrew Hicks]

Thais love the rape scenes in soaps for some reason. They are used as a form of 'punishment' for the bad girl.

Ratings across all age levels skyrocket when there is a rape scene.

Whereas in the rest of the civilised world everyone is shocked and switches off?

A thing that bothers me too is that kids are usually allowed to lie around in front of the TV at night until they fall asleep. Any concept of a nine oclock watershed before which material should be appropriate for the young is irelevant. They'll be watching later than that anyway.

And as a farang papa, can I possibly stand out and insist the children are cleared off to bed when things get ugly on the soap? They'd say I'm jai rorn and talk too mutt.

Can't win!

[Los78]

I have to agree with Princess disease from watching trashy soaps. After spending some time in Korea and seeing how some Korean girls act from watching thier favourite soapy stars daily on tv. After witnessing the same style of over acting in Thai soap operas nightly on tv it will be just a matter of time that some Thai girls will be mimicking their favourite soapy stars. It may already be too late. The princess disease of watching trashy soap operas continues to spread....

[poshthai]

These soap operas are simply pathetic,with all the screaming,poor acting,shootings,fighting etc.They even try to whiten the faces to make them look european,and i find that horrible to see white thais.i WOULD GET THE NEXT PLANE OUT OF THAILAND IF THEIR FACES DID TURN WHITE.We are in asia not england.

[lomatopo]

We have a thread like this about every 30 days or so. Not sure why the subject of Thai television dramas so captures and enthralls the imagination of foreigners, who then try to figure out if it they are a societal reflection or influence. Honestly they're just cheaply produced, badly written, poorly directed and embarrassingly badly acted TV programs. In fact I would hesitate to even call it acting. Some of the live-ish situation comedies and entertainment shows are actually not half-bad with none of that boorish behavior on display.

[sgtpeppers]

some Thai soaps are funny, I'll give them that. oh, and some of the actresses are very beautiful.

but most of it is melodramatic nonsense.

[poshthai]

i love the slapstick live comedy shows.Cannot understand too much but some realy funny sketches visualy

[12DrinkMore]

At what age do girls/boys begin to watch soaps here ?

In the womb.

I started a poll, but it was rapidly clamped down.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Movies-t202260.html

My GF has to wear headphones now, I can't stand the screaming and shouting.

Some of the live-ish situation comedies and entertainment shows are actually not half-bad

You have to be kidding me, they all have the same format and involve the same visual effects. Maybe the first couple of shows are midly amusing, if you are into brain torture, but no, headphones is the way to go.

And as a farang papa, can I possibly stand out and insist the children are cleared off to bed when things get ugly on the soap? They'd say I'm jai rorn and talk too mutt.

Have to start somewhere. And any kid who told me I talk too much would have clip round the ear.

[petitechevre]

anyone concerned with children watching that show.

Well if you're a parent and you have thai tv open in your house.. you're a terrible parent, you only have yourself to blame.

no farang should be watching that crap as we've all had an education and should be able to discern anything that would lower our iq by half a point daily when watched.

if you're too cheap to buy dvds or cable for 300baht a month then throw the tv out fo the house because no children should be allowed to watch these idiocy, they create very low human beings. some child's life can turn to crap just from a tv show, not everyone was born as inteligent as the others.

yes i know not everyone turns into morons from watching it, but the few that do.. are just well annoying. like my girlfriend's sister. All she does is drink beer, talk FKING loud, laugh for NOTHING, eat food, talk about how everyone is fat(including her). all her friends are the same.. and the loud talking is so annoying.. and i do not wish anyone to turn into that.

id seriously rather watch Passions 24 hours a day for the rest of my life than to be stuck with a soap show fan turned into a retard.

please be carefull and never let any kid watch those shows! unless they're a little older and you watch it to make fun of it, dub the speach on mute to something funny or are watching the hot actresses with your son.

Edited August 14, 2008 by petitechevre

[12DrinkMore]

And as a farang papa, can I possibly stand out and insist the children are cleared off to bed when things get ugly on the soap? They'd say I'm jai rorn and talk too mutt.

Considering that sentence, I wonder if there is an interesting cultural angle here.

Thai kids are brought to to respect their parents, and I have never seen a Thai kid say things like that to a Thai father. But I have seen this situation in Farang/Thai families, and the kid gets support from the "Thai" mother against the Farang.

[Johpa]

I find this theory very interesting. Can you elaborate on how you see this happening and give examples ? What about men -- are they affected, too ? (I think they are less likely to watch soaps ?). At what age do girls/boys begin to watch soaps here ?

One might indeed argue that the Thai soaps are a sinister plot by the Bangkok elite to infantilize the Thai female population and reset the culture using the power of a modern media. You see in traditional Tai culture, women had quite a bit to say around the house. Although the men tended to represent the family in public, it was the women who controlled the politics and money inside the house. Remember that Tai culture was matrilocal, that is land was inherited by the women and a newly married man moved onto the land of the new bride's family. In the rural areas you can still see quite a few groups of sisters in any one village. Also note that throughout Southeast Asia, it is women working in the traditional marketplace, not men. Compare all of the above with East Asian culture and note that the Bangkok elite tends to be of East Asian origin. One might also note that a very small section of the traditional ruling Thai elite was also male dominated. So the current eliteis a marriage made (mandated?) in heaven at the expense of the Thais.

The soaps help break up all this traditional Thai female power. They portray women as being, well pathetic people with no ability to think with anything other than emotion. Countless women in Thailand watch this drivel and are inculcated with the thought that this is the appropriate behavior pattern for women. They also are shown that the standard for physical beauty is having light skin and Sinitic features and those with darker skin and Tai features are relegated to servant roles. Just as television has slowly dumbed down generations of Americans, the negative impact of the soaps on Thai culture has had perhaps an even greater negative consequences.

Flame on!

[Lancelot]

Yeah, the Thai soaps are pretty bad

...until I think about "Jerry Springer"

Tha show makes the Thai soaps look like classic Greek tragedies by comparrison

[poshthai]

I find this theory very interesting. Can you elaborate on how you see this happening and give examples ? What about men -- are they affected, too ? (I think they are less likely to watch soaps ?). At what age do girls/boys begin to watch soaps here ?

One might indeed argue that the Thai soaps are a sinister plot by the Bangkok elite to infantilize the Thai female population and reset the culture using the power of a modern media. You see in traditional Tai culture, women had quite a bit to say around the house. Although the men tended to represent the family in public, it was the women who controlled the politics and money inside the house. Remember that Tai culture was matrilocal, that is land was inherited by the women and a newly married man moved onto the land of the new bride's family. In the rural areas you can still see quite a few groups of sisters in any one village. Also note that throughout Southeast Asia, it is women working in the traditional marketplace, not men. Compare all of the above with East Asian culture and note that the Bangkok elite tends to be of East Asian origin. One might also note that a very small section of the traditional ruling Thai elite was also male dominated. So the current eliteis a marriage made (mandated?) in heaven at the expense of the Thais.

The soaps help break up all this traditional Thai female power. They portray women as being, well pathetic people with no ability to think with anything other than emotion. Countless women in Thailand watch this drivel and are inculcated with the thought that this is the appropriate behavior pattern for women. They also are shown that the standard for physical beauty is having light skin and Sinitic features and those with darker skin and Tai features are relegated to servant roles. Just as television has slowly dumbed down generations of Americans, the negative impact of the soaps on Thai culture has had perhaps an even greater negative consequences.

Flame on!

Very good post indeed and certainly not flaming to my way of thinking even though i probably would have ben banned for that post lol.This is why i have always maintained that the bk hiso,thai and farangs can be very racist towards skin colour.

[12DrinkMore]

Interesting post Johpa,

I think that Thai society/economy is, at the roots, still firmly in the hands of the women. A few observations I have made

- go to a Chinese run hardware store. There is almost always a middle aged woman dealing with the cash and organising the place.

- Rutnin eye hospital in Bangkok must employ 95% women.

- My accountant (female) has at least 20 staff, all female.

- Thaksin has stated that his wife makes the decisions (tongue in cheek, maybe)

- There are far more female students in college than male.

- My impression at the Labour Department and Immigration offices is that the majority of the staff are female.

Where does this leave the males? Motorcycle taxis, the military and the police force come to mind.

I would even go so far as to state that I think the typical Thai male is considered by his female counterpart as a necessary irritation to keep the population going, but basically allowed to play golf, swan around the massage parlours and karaoke bars, play with his mia noi, anything as long as he stays out of the way of running the business.

[Heng]

Interesting post Johpa,

I think that Thai society/economy is, at the roots, still firmly in the hands of the women. A few observations I have made

- go to a Chinese run hardware store. There is almost always a middle aged woman dealing with the cash and organising the place.

True, have since this example often. It's in fact a natural Chinese/East Asian type 'balance' situation where the husband often controls the house in his younger years and hands it over to his wife as he starts to lose his mental edge in his older years.

- Rutnin eye hospital in Bangkok must employ 95% women.

Uh yeah, except for the owners (father and son), and the 10 to 1 male to female doctor ratio? As for all the female staff catering to the doctors/owners (I think the son still practices there), that's how I would set it up too if I owned the place.

- My accountant (female) has at least 20 staff, all female.

Again, that's how I would set it up.

- Thaksin has stated that his wife makes the decisions (tongue in cheek, maybe)

Same as the hardware store situation, only with more cash stashed away here and there.

- There are far more female students in college than male.

Yeah, before I got married, I think I've helped pay the tuition of several dozen (a few meals, weekends in Samui, and a few thousand Baht at a time in some of the shorter term cases).

- My impression at the Labour Department and Immigration offices is that the majority of the staff are female.

A lot of these offices are like the personal harem's of the installed poo yais.

Where does this leave the males? Motorcycle taxis, the military and the police force come to mind.

Um, in charge? That's why it's called a patriarchal society.

I would even go so far as to state that I think the typical Thai male is considered by his female counterpart as a necessary irritation to keep the population going, but basically allowed to play golf, swan around the massage parlours and karaoke bars, play with his mia noi, anything as long as he stays out of the way of running the business.

I think you've probably told that "Thai man no good" before then, yes?

[Heng]

They also are shown that the standard for physical beauty is having light skin and Sinitic features and those with darker skin and Tai features are relegated to servant roles.

You mean like in real life?

[Flatouthruthefog]

Interesting post Johpa,

I think that Thai society/economy is, at the roots, still firmly in the hands of the women. A few observations I have made

- go to a Chinese run hardware store. There is almost always a middle aged woman dealing with the cash and organising the place.

- Rutnin eye hospital in Bangkok must employ 95% women.

- My accountant (female) has at least 20 staff, all female.

- Thaksin has stated that his wife makes the decisions (tongue in cheek, maybe)

- There are far more female students in college than male.

- My impression at the Labour Department and Immigration offices is that the majority of the staff are female.

Where does this leave the males? Motorcycle taxis, the military and the police force come to mind.

I would even go so far as to state that I think the typical Thai male is considered by his female counterpart as a necessary irritation to keep the population going, but basically allowed to play golf, swan around the massage parlours and karaoke bars, play with his mia noi, anything as long as he stays out of the way of running the business.

Well, No 12, and Johpa, don't know how well you know the top left hand side of Thailand, but up here you have hit the nail right on the head. The female head. The female head of the family. The female head of the business. The female who takes responsibility for EVERYTHING and usually gets it right!

Where is that international award winning benefactor who opened a bank offering small loans to poor people? Was it in India? Pakistan? Let him come here to Thailand, soon! He would extend loans only to the WOMAN of the family!!

[thaigene2]

They also are shown that the standard for physical beauty is having light skin and Sinitic features and those with darker skin and Tai features are relegated to servant roles.

You mean like in real life?

No - as in the life portrayed by the sino-elites that run the Thais soaps, politics and media elites - and want to cement their places within the minds of the Thai general public as the ruling class. Seems you also have pedigree on your side at present ... but for how much longer? One can only guess..

[Gaccha]

We're all missing an interesting crescendo point here:

Violent and movies with naughty words are blamed on the decline of civilisation as we know it (books were at one point in the apst similarly blamed), but actually the huge culprit is soap operas/dramas.

My sister as a child in England was rivetted to them. The hyper-emotion; the absurd and quick resolution of disagreements with emotion and anger; the posturing; the treachery between the sexes and among the families. She must have learnt to behave like a typical English woman somewhere ... (but I still love her )

Men don't watch them. So they are not affected. For women, there seems an obvious evolutionary advantage. It role-plays out scenarios of power and control within rthe mundane of relationships. My sister must have watched 100s of hypothetical "run-throughs" of what to do if your boyfriend cheats on you/your best friend is knifed to death/ you get drunk in the town centre. Her mind must have deduced exactly how to behave. It was a massive normative process.

This leads to the following conclusions:

1. Women are affected by soaps (dramas) more than men because

2. Women watch them more because

3. There is an advantage to them to watch them because

4. It allows them to roleplay out possible future life scenarios where

5. They are vulnerable, in a position of weakness

You may wonder why there is no advantage to men in all this. Surely they risk the same issues. But they don't. If the man leaves, it is the woman left with the huge burden of the baby (I am talking off course about the hunter-gatherer man that still controls are behaviour, which has no connection with the modern welfare state). If a man cheats, the bastard child is of no consequence (the reverse results in him being cuckolded). Of more importance to the man is not then the relationship dynamics (which dominate soaps) but social power. So you would expect an interest in... weapons, violence, political (not domestic) intrigue.

Eh, of course this is just a wild guess... but it is a scientific fact

[12DrinkMore]

Well, No 12, and Johpa, don't know how well you know the top left hand side of Thailand, but up here you have hit the nail right on the head. The female head. The female head of the family. The female head of the business. The female who takes responsibility for EVERYTHING and usually gets it right!

Where is that international award winning benefactor who opened a bank offering small loans to poor people? Was it in India? Pakistan? Let him come here to Thailand, soon! He would extend loans only to the WOMAN of the family!!

There was also some other guy who was involved in providing education to the poor. Was reported in one of the BKK papers a few years ago. He said, "if you educate a Thai male, you educate one person, if you educate a Thai woman, you educate the whole family".

[Heng]

They also are shown that the standard for physical beauty is having light skin and Sinitic features and those with darker skin and Tai features are relegated to servant roles.

You mean like in real life?

No - as in the life portrayed by the sino-elites that run the Thais soaps, politics and media elites - and want to cement their places within the minds of the Thai general public as the ruling class. Seems you also have pedigree on your side at present ... but for how much longer? One can only guess..

And what were the locals watching before there was TV/mass media? Those sinister sino-elite hand carved wooden puppet shows?

Seems like you've bet on a 'lesser pedigree' and feel a need to rationalize their lack of what locals -no matter what their heritage- define as success? Just a guess.

[Heng]

My sister as a child in England was rivetted to them. The hyper-emotion; the absurd and quick resolution of disagreements with emotion and anger; the posturing; the treachery between the sexes and among the families. She must have learnt to behave like a typical English woman somewhere ... (but I still love her )

Men don't watch them. So they are not affected. For women, there seems an obvious evolutionary advantage.

Eh, of course this is just a wild guess... but it is a scientific fact

More evolutionary theory

Do you have your doctoral dissertation published online somewhere? It'd be interesting to see how you fuse soap operas and not being eaten by tigers.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Heng

[Gaccha]

My sister as a child in England was rivetted to them. The hyper-emotion; the absurd and quick resolution of disagreements with emotion and anger; the posturing; the treachery between the sexes and among the families. She must have learnt to behave like a typical English woman somewhere ... (but I still love her )

Men don't watch them. So they are not affected. For women, there seems an obvious evolutionary advantage.

Eh, of course this is just a wild guess... but it is a scientific fact

More evolutionary theory

Do you have your doctoral dissertation published online somewhere? It'd be interesting to see how you fuse soap operas and not being eaten by tigers.

Very well spotted. I was wondering if anyone woudl notice.

I only wish at school they had taught evolutionary psychology rather than force feeding plant names to us...

[G54]

Ohhhh, those wonderul Thai soaps, makes Crossroads seem heavenly

[Gaccha]

My sister as a child in England was rivetted to them. The hyper-emotion; the absurd and quick resolution of disagreements with emotion and anger; the posturing; the treachery between the sexes and among the families. She must have learnt to behave like a typical English woman somewhere ... (but I still love her )

Men don't watch them. So they are not affected. For women, there seems an obvious evolutionary advantage.

Eh, of course this is just a wild guess... but it is a scientific fact

More evolutionary theory

Do you have your doctoral dissertation published online somewhere? It'd be interesting to see how you fuse soap operas and not being eaten by tigers.

Soap operas are the human equivalent of the tiger's child stage. The tigers as cubs playing with each other are playing out scenarios that as adults will be life threatening. Their claws are kept retracted but the tigers play with each other has a serious purpose: they are learning to stalk and they are learning to rip at the neck of their prey. They act out a hunt repeatedly, being first clumsy but then gradually improving.

The human, who has developed the startling ability of reflection can think through hypotheticals without the (dangerous) need to try them out in the real world. Fiction books are popular because they allow just this way of thinking. Politicians enjoy reading political memoirs; girls enjoy reading about relationships; boys about guns. The audience of horror movies are mainly female-- it is experiencing extreme fright in a controlled environment. Soap operas are then the female equivalent of a tiger cub playing in the hedges. Et voila.

[Heng]

My sister as a child in England was rivetted to them. The hyper-emotion; the absurd and quick resolution of disagreements with emotion and anger; the posturing; the treachery between the sexes and among the families. She must have learnt to behave like a typical English woman somewhere ... (but I still love her )

Men don't watch them. So they are not affected. For women, there seems an obvious evolutionary advantage.

Eh, of course this is just a wild guess... but it is a scientific fact

More evolutionary theory

Do you have your doctoral dissertation published online somewhere? It'd be interesting to see how you fuse soap operas and not being eaten by tigers.

Soap operas are the human equivalent of the tiger's child stage. The tigers as cubs playing with each other are playing out scenarios that as adults will be life threatening. Their claws are kept retracted but the tigers play with each other has a serious purpose: they are learning to stalk and they are learning to rip at the neck of their prey. They act out a hunt repeatedly, being first clumsy but then gradually improving.

The human, who has developed the startling ability of reflection can think through hypotheticals without the (dangerous) need to try them out in the real world. Fiction books are popular because they allow just this way of thinking. Politicians enjoy reading political memoirs; girls enjoy reading about relationships; boys about guns. The audience of horror movies are mainly female-- it is experiencing extreme fright in a controlled environment. Soap operas are then the female equivalent of a tiger cub playing in the hedges. Et voila.

Hmm, quick on your feet I see.

And what about the evolutionary implications -feel free to limit your expectations to the next or perhaps 3rd generation- of the average/typical -and yes, there are plenty of exceptions- of foreigners + Thais: that is, relatively uneducated (formally anyway) local + low/moderately educated foreigner.

Feel free to start off with your trademark: "tremendous/obvious evolutionary advantage..." That is, unless you believe the opposite is true of course.

[teacup]

QUOTE (DualCitizen @ 2008-08-14 13:32:09) Well, much of the "Hi-so" set are pretty dam_n superficial. And this attitude spills over to the soap operas that dominate the airwaves, and consequently gets programmed into the minds of the masses. You would be surprised by the inane behavior mechanisms that get programmed into Thai women from these dam_n soap operas!

Here..Here..well said....my Thai is not that good, but have watched some of the facial expressions and mannerisms on these soap operas...after which realised my darling wife was copying them....

I find this theory very interesting. Can you elaborate on how you see this happening and give examples ? What about men -- are they affected, too ? (I think they are less likely to watch soaps ?).

You know she's watching too many lakorns when she tries to re-enact the slap/kiss scenes with you!!!

[Gaccha]

My sister as a child in England was rivetted to them. The hyper-emotion; the absurd and quick resolution of disagreements with emotion and anger; the posturing; the treachery between the sexes and among the families. She must have learnt to behave like a typical English woman somewhere ... (but I still love her )

Men don't watch them. So they are not affected. For women, there seems an obvious evolutionary advantage.

Eh, of course this is just a wild guess... but it is a scientific fact

More evolutionary theory

Do you have your doctoral dissertation published online somewhere? It'd be interesting to see how you fuse soap operas and not being eaten by tigers.

Soap operas are the human equivalent of the tiger's child stage. The tigers as cubs playing with each other are playing out scenarios that as adults will be life threatening. Their claws are kept retracted but the tigers play with each other has a serious purpose: they are learning to stalk and they are learning to rip at the neck of their prey. They act out a hunt repeatedly, being first clumsy but then gradually improving.

The human, who has developed the startling ability of reflection can think through hypotheticals without the (dangerous) need to try them out in the real world. Fiction books are popular because they allow just this way of thinking. Politicians enjoy reading political memoirs; girls enjoy reading about relationships; boys about guns. The audience of horror movies are mainly female-- it is experiencing extreme fright in a controlled environment. Soap operas are then the female equivalent of a tiger cub playing in the hedges. Et voila.

Hmm, quick on your feet I see.

And what about the evolutionary implications -feel free to limit your expectations to the next or perhaps 3rd generation- of the average/typical -and yes, there are plenty of exceptions- of foreigners + Thais: that is, relatively uneducated (formally anyway) local + low/moderately educated foreigner.

Feel free to start off with your trademark: "tremendous/obvious evolutionary advantage..." That is, unless you believe the opposite is true of course.

I should think there will be no evolutionary consequence. The girls who are not watching the soaps should be less adept at managing their social relations only if Thai soaps are good at describing real relations. This is to some extent circular, but let's suppose the most extreme point is true: that is,Thai soaps have a great benefit in assisting a Thai girl how to live in her social environment.

"Theory: Thai soaps have a great benefit in assisting a Thai girl how to live in her social environment"

I have serious doubts about this for the reasons suggested above (the structural processes for making the soaps are geared towards maximising the number of persons watching it, and since evolutionary theory would expect that they would anticipate their brains are hotwired to look out for news, i.e. events that are notable and worth gossip (because there are (cue music) tremendous evolutionary advantages... in noting changes in their environment (e.g. a person in the village being killed by a (cue music again) tiger, near a hedge)), so the dramas will not reflect reality but grotesquely exaggerate it.

The problem is, even if humans are still evolving, and I think we are but on different grounds from our hunter-gatherer days (e.g say... those resistant to illness are overall at a vast level more likely to survive than those with endurance traits), we are not evolving on the reasons that make the young Thai girl interested in Soaps. Think about it like this:

1, She is interested in the soap because

2. her brain is designed to enjoy this presentation because

3. in past times it would have helped her to survive because

4. the information would have assisted her in social relations where she is vulnerable

5. but now, due to civilisation

6. which our bodies could not possibly have evolved to be designed for, because

7. modern existence has only been around for 10,000 years

8. it will make little difference

there is a possibility that a girl who is badly designed for picking up gossip may have an advantage from being able to stay away from watching soaps... that is an outrageously unverified statement, although it is scientific fact...

Let me give an analogy. Why do you find sunsets beautiful ( I would suggest not one of us can deny they find sunsets beautiful--- just think of that red sky)? Are they intrinsically beautiful? Of course not-- that is nonsense. Your brain when it looks at the sunset... cannot keep its eyes off it. You have to look. In other words, "beauty" is simply your positive interest in an event/thing. Nowadays there is no advantage for you to stare at a sunset. But when your ancestors had the job occupation of a hunter-gatherer knowing when darkness was about to strike, when the predators would come to get you, would have been fantastically useful. That same positive interest in soaps is same same.

I have real doubts as to whether it would make any difference as to whether the farang/Thai are a farang or Thai or how educated they are. I find it impossible to override my like of sunsets. I should think a girl cannot stop liking soaps (i.e. scenario re-enactments of social relations).

...I hope everyone is still reading.