Cc Surcharge

[joinme2leave]

back to LOS for a couple of months.

had to decide rather fast to choose my Bkk (serviced) apt to stay in as there was not enough time for proper "investigation" in advance.

Upon check-in I was (correctly) informed about a 1-month-deposit plus a 1-month-rent in advance.

So far so good.

Told the reception staff about my intention to pay with credit card (both the rent and deposit).

So far so relative.

Even though there was all cc-signs (Amex, Diners, MasterCard and Visa) on main entrance lobby I was denied to pay with Diners.

So far so strange.

I "offered" AmericanExpress. Denied again.

But MasterCard was ok with them.

Well, having been in lack of enough Baht cash (arrived on friday evening DonMuang the same day, ATM account not filled up yet) I agreed to proceed.

So far so cheating:

had to pay an extra surcharge for using my MasterCard.

In total more than Bht 2,200.

Made me angry but what other chance(s) do I have?

Now, you don't need to tell me now I could have been wiser and pay cash or ask reception for later payment (like monday where I could have got the money from my thai bank).

I just wonder .... did similar happen to you too?

And is there any legal ("easy") way to complain?

Does it make sense to report this incidence to DinersClub, Amex and MC Thailand?

Is there a n y chance to receive that (highly suspicious) "service charge for cc-payment" back?

thx a lot .... nevertheless I enjoy my stay (not the work though), the room is great and I am back to Los, faaaaar away from winter temperatures

[Axel]

Welcome back to LoS!.

Generally, American Express is not so happily accepted. Seems it's the most expensive. Diners not so widely spread.

You can always complain/report to the card company with date, time etc.

They might or might not take action.

With the serviced appartment versus hotels I often see they do accept creit cards but only if you pay the handling fee. E.g. President Group (I don't think they show the card sign) clearly tell at check in, credit card costs more. If this is the case no basis to complain, they will argue they are not members, but just do the guest a favour.

Same you will find in lower class night spots (like Cowboy, Pat pong) They do take you card and add the percentage. When you check you receipt, you will realize it's not by the place but by another company. Perhaps not within the card rules...

Btw, serviced appartments will neither give you a bill for lodging, but two bills, one for use of room and one for rent of furniture. (Believe the tax on furniture rental is lower)

Anyway, enjoy your stay.

[ProfessorFart]

Credit Charge charges are a fact of life!

[loong]

Nearly everywhere in Thailand you will pay a 3% surcharge (not Big C, Lotus etc). This is illegal, but a fact of life you have to accept. Complaining is unlikely to do you any good. Incidently, you will pay the same surcharge if you use a debit card.

In some places I prefer to pay the surcharge as there is a certain degree of safety. (ie buying an airline ticket from a back street fly by night), but if I have dealt with the company b4 I will pay cash to save the surcharge.

[loong]

Another warning

Never let your card leave your sight.

I used my credit card only one time in one year to buy an airline ticket from an agent in 2nd road Pattaya. They disappeared into a back room to process my card.

Later, a number of debits appeared on my statement from Hong Kong, a place I have never visited.

I was refunded, but it took some hassle.

[jackr]

Nearly everywhere in Thailand you will pay a 3% surcharge (not Big C, Lotus etc). This is illegal, but a fact of life you have to accept. Complaining is unlikely to do you any good. Incidently, you will pay the same surcharge if you use a debit card.

In some places I prefer to pay the surcharge as there is a certain degree of safety. (ie buying an airline ticket from a back street fly by night), but if I have dealt with the company b4 I will pay cash to save the surcharge.

Bought a fridge once and they tried the 3% on me. I told them it was illegal and that I wouldn't pay (in a very polite manner, of course) and when they said I had to, I got up to walk away (very politely, of course). As soon as I did that, they gave in and scrapped the charge......and that was that.

[ChiangMaiThai]

Amex US charges a fee for using your card abroad. On top of that, you're charged by the merchant here (which is illegal, but like so many things in thailand, nobody cares, including Amex). think it adds up to 6.5% total for the 'covnenience' of using the card. <deleted>.

I guess its good to be in the personal credit business.

[Thetyim]

I am with jackr on this one.

I always ask first if there is an additional charge, if there is I will walk away. Never had to leave yet.

[joinme2leave]

Oh squid.. I may have accidentally overwritten this post when trying to reply.

I'm very sorry if this indeed happened, it wasn't intentional and I do apologize. /--Chanchao

Edited November 16, 2004 by chanchao

[chanchao]

So what I was going to say:

I'm with the Professor, and I'd even take it one step furhter saying that I PREFER companies charging extra for people paying with credit cards! We all know full well that credit card companies charge money to businesses for the privilege of receiving their money, some companies (Amex) even quite unreasonable amounts..

Now, I for one do not like the idea of paying for other people's privelege to pay by credit card; because this is exactly what would happen; if they wave the fee then EVERYONE would pay x percent more.

Mostly places that don't charge a percentage are indeed those with a significant mark-up, i.e. I recently went to buy a DVD recorder.. 4900 baht at Data IT, a chain store that of course doesn't charge a percentage. OR I could get the exact same thing for 4200 baht at another shop next door. That 700 baht difference comes straight out of their profit margin. Now am I forcing the guy to also take an extra 3-7 percent up the **** from a credit card company in addition to giving me a good deal? By all means give it a try. Or buy at Data IT.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[samran]

Its called an 'interchange fee' and they are a scam by the credit card companies that charge the retailers a fee (usually 3% in LOS) for the privilege of using their credit card system.

Some of the richer stores can afford to absorb the fee (in reality, they just make you pay more everything - hiding it that way). In most cases, the retailer can't afford the fee and simply passes it on to the consumer.

The Australian competition watchdog and the Reserve Bank recently cracked down on this scam in Australia, citing it as uncompetitive. This article outlines how much the fees should cost in a competitive market place.

http://afr.com/articles/2003/12/09/1070732206620.html

Don't think though that things is going to change much in LOS. Consumer protection laws in Thailand are pretty weak.

[PvtDick]

I don't think charging a fee is "illegal" per se, but more a case of being against the service agreement between the establishment and the credit card companies.

Apart from the fact that the shops have to pay the interchange fee, another reason that they really don't like you to use credit cards -- and try to charge you for the privilege -- is that they can't hide credit card sales from the tax man like they can cash ones.

[joinme2leave]

well - imho - cc surcharge IS no doubt illegal but I've given explanation in my 2nd post (if it would not have been accidently overwritten by chanchao)....

[samran]

well, in a well functioning economy you should be able to charge what ever you like. If people are willing to pay that price, so much the better.

What should be illegal (and mostly is in the west) is if you are given no choice by a monopolist and a forced to pay an unreasonably high price, which does not reflect the cost of providing a service.

Choice is the key here.

Interchange fees? Legal

Extremely high interchange fees? Illegal

[PvtDick]

well - imho - cc surcharge IS no doubt illegal but I've given explanation in my 2nd post (if it would not have been accidently overwritten by chanchao)....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Illegal where? In Austria? I highly doubt there is any such law in Thailand.

[joinme2leave]

pvtdick...forget it. whatever i said. i can surely afford that surcharge. there IS law about that kind of mal-treatment in austria (and germany too) but I KNOW i am in thailand. and i can live with it. this simply was (and is) a question of fairness which one obviously cannot expect everywhere.

[PvtDick]

pvtdick...forget it. whatever i said. i can surely afford that surcharge. there IS law about that kind of mal-treatment in austria (and germany too) but I KNOW i am in thailand. and i can live with it. this simply was (and is) a question of fairness which one obviously cannot expect everywhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No such law in the US:

"Such surcharges, while not illegal, are a breach of contract with the merchant bank."

From:

http://www.ooida.com/legal_action/Flying_J/surcharg2.htm

[Ajarn]

I've paid the surcharge on occasion when it was more convenient, or was just too ###### lazy to go the ATM first... For less expensive items, I don't sweat it. I also like Chanchao's consideration of possible price balancing situations like he descibed.

Another major consideration for me is service for their products. I'd rather pay a few extra baht for a tv at Siam TV (who charges 3%, as I recall) than a cheaper tv at Macro, because I know and trust the excellent SiamTV aftersales service, including free home installation and servicing, two-year guarantees on tv's, and 'free' two-year service contracts on air-cons, for example...

Some time ago, I seem to remember something from Visa or Mastercard or Amex telling me that if this extra surcharge is itemized on the charge slip, you can apply for reimbursement...

[Nam Kao]

Ajarn, my credit card has a peace sign on it! its real cool. Man am i still

angry that meanie Bush got back in.!! He's after all the oil in this world

for these evil SUVs. Have you ever hitch hiked from KSR to Don Muang? That

would cool, Oh and its free. I like free. Thats cool

[Ajarn]

Ajarn, my credit card has a peace sign on it! its real cool. Man am i still

angry that meanie Bush got back in.!!   He's after all the oil in this world

for these evil SUVs. Have you ever hitch hiked from KSR to Don Muang? That

would cool, Oh and its free. I like free. Thats cool

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would you want to be my puppet, silly boy

[astral]

I don't think charging a fee is "illegal" per se, but more a case of being against the service agreement between the establishment and the credit card companies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is a breach of contract by the Merchant, and can result in him loosing his card priveleges. A civil matter, not criminal.

If it is large shop I will threaten to walk out taking my business elsewhere.

As others have said this usually works.

In a small shop I bargain the best price, then accept the 2-3% surcharge,

after all most of those buinesses are cash based.

[Axel]

Guess Chanchao got a point (Post #10 above) people who pay by cash usually pay the same price as people using cards, i.e. they do pay more.

OTH, why should I carry cash with me, that might be easily lost or stolen.? C-cards are safer alas I pay an annual membership fee which is not cheap.

Most outlets that display the card-signs do accept the card without any additional. Exeptions are tailors and travel agents. The latter I solved easily, either the ticket prices are adjusted to a level, that I can pay the 3 - 3.5 % additional or I book through a travel agents, owned by a card company. Bargain the fare and for sure guys like Amexco travel service will not charge extra for using their own card.

Restaurants, pubs: I never was asked to pay an extra-fee. Some might try to persuade you to give Visa i.o. American Express. I just don't accept it as long as they got the sign on.

And don't forget the points you get, Baht 25 spent gives you 1 km free flight on most airlines. Use the card that offers promotion, double or triple-points. Different story is mentioned here, buy a fridge, TV or whatever, it's a matter of calculation.

[simcity]

hello ,

regarding Amex , i invite three friends to sofitel durring the marocco festival .

i present my Amex card and ready to sign , the food bill have a 25 % discount on it ...due to paid by amex

[lopburi3]

This seems to hit the wire as much as dual price charges. And just like dual price I just say no and use cash. Simple really and you avoid all that extra anger; and the worry someone may have compromised your credit card.

Seriously, it is getting foolish to use cards if you have to pay a "foreign use" charge as many American banks are charging. Then the extra 2-4% the merchant wants to add. But I do understand there are a few times when it is worthwhile from a security standpoint and the last time I used with a travel agent they did not put extra fee on credit card but asked for cash payment (at was only about 1.5% was better than the asking 3%).

[chanchao]

Yes.. but when it comes to 'safer' I really wonder how safe credit cards really are.. Anyway, that's a different issue, I recognize that people like paying by credit card and I do so sometimes myself.

(But only at places where my 3-7% fee is shared among all customers, needless to say. And even at those places I may ask for a discount if paying with cash..

[toastwars]

I've paid the surcharge on occasion when it was more convenient, or was just too ###### lazy to go the ATM first... For less expensive items, I don't sweat it. I also like Chanchao's consideration of possible price balancing situations like he descibed.

Another major consideration for me is service for their products. I'd rather pay a few extra baht for a tv at Siam TV (who charges 3%, as I recall) than a cheaper tv at Macro, because I know and trust the excellent SiamTV aftersales service, including free home installation and servicing, two-year guarantees on tv's, and 'free' two-year service contracts on air-cons, for example...

Some time ago, I seem to remember something from Visa or Mastercard or Amex telling me that if this extra surcharge is itemized on the charge slip, you can apply for reimbursement...

"Free home istallation on tv"??? how much trouble is plugging it in to the wall and hooking up the cable?

[Ajarn]

I've paid the surcharge on occasion when it was more convenient, or was just too ###### lazy to go the ATM first... For less expensive items, I don't sweat it. I also like Chanchao's consideration of possible price balancing situations like he descibed.

Another major consideration for me is service for their products. I'd rather pay a few extra baht for a tv at Siam TV (who charges 3%, as I recall) than a cheaper tv at Macro, because I know and trust the excellent SiamTV aftersales service, including free home installation and servicing, two-year guarantees on tv's, and 'free' two-year service contracts on air-cons, for example...

Some time ago, I seem to remember something from Visa or Mastercard or Amex telling me that if this extra surcharge is itemized on the charge slip, you can apply for reimbursement...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Free home istallation on tv"??? how much trouble is plugging it in to the wall and hooking up the cable?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just an example, but not everyone is physically able to carry or lift a tv set

It's very convenient to have them delivery and set up anything....

[joinme2leave]

rgd/ajarn: sounds interesting. there IS in fact a comment about that surcharge on my bill. So i maybe give it a try and contact MC. What do you think: should I contact MC austria or MC Thailand? (i guess austria would be the better one as thai MC could state, it is normal to ask for surcharge here...)

rgd/axel: correct about the bonuses u receive when paying with cc. that is the main reason why i initially wanted to pay with Diners (lots of points credited on my StarAlliance account).

[ChiangMaiThai]

pvtdick...forget it. whatever i said. i can surely afford that surcharge. there IS law about that kind of mal-treatment in austria (and germany too) but I KNOW i am in thailand. and i can live with it. this simply was (and is) a question of fairness which one obviously cannot expect everywhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No such law in the US:

"Such surcharges, while not illegal, are a breach of contract with the merchant bank."

From:

http://www.ooida.com/legal_action/Flying_J/surcharg2.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know about that PvtDick. I spoke with Amex directly and asked them to at least waive the fee on their end since I'm charged the 3% + here by the merchant. They immediately said that that is illegal and asked for the name of the merchant. I told them its every merchant in Thailand except for the nicer hotels and restaraunts. But they already know and they don't care because we all pay it anyway and their profits just keep rising. &lt;deleted&gt;.

[Collina]

> "Free home istallation on tv"??? how much trouble is plugging it in

> to the wall and hooking up the cable?

Try buying a umphteen inch widescreen TV and carrying it home and up to your bedroom. Then we talk again.

Ciao -- PLC