Thai Culture And Sarcasm

[sanook2me]

  Heng said:

Make it 2. I didn't really mean it.

Its not like a Thai to lie จริงจริง

[klikster]

I once had a Thai friend who was fluent in English transliterate the phrase, "cheat me once, shame on you; cheat me twice, shame on me".

It took him several minutes and multiple tries to get it right, with the "just right" selection of words. He wrote it out for me (transliterated) but I eventually forgot it. When I showed the transliteration to a few Thais, they laughed like hel_l .. and gave two thumbs up.

I think we have a hard time picking out the right words.

[klikster]

  Jingthing said:

Here is another situational example of classic sarcasm that I don't most Thais would understand. You are a restaurant and you order a pad Thai. They bring you a huge platter with a huge portion (way more than you can eat). So you say you could feed a village with this pad Thai! , I don't think the typical Thai would think you were being sarcastic and MOCKING the size of the portion. I think if they understand the language, they would take you LITERALLY. But you weren't being literal, you were being SARCASTIC.

In this example you seem to be using a western idiom to attempt sarcasm. Unless they understand the idiom, they have not much choice other than to take the comment literally.

[Stumbo]

  Heng said:

Gotta disagree with this one. Sarcasm is an integral part of my routine and my family members most certainly get it.

There's a comedy troupe that does the Sapa Joke (Joke Congress) show on one of the free to air channels that makes pretty extensive use of sarcasm.

Also disagree, Australian humour that uses lots of sarcasm I find translates very well into Thai. Perhaps some people just are not as humorous as they would like to believe, or just don't use the Thai language well.

[Geekfreaklover]

  Stumbo said:

  Heng said:

Gotta disagree with this one. Sarcasm is an integral part of my routine and my family members most certainly get it.

There's a comedy troupe that does the Sapa Joke (Joke Congress) show on one of the free to air channels that makes pretty extensive use of sarcasm.

Also disagree, Australian humour that uses lots of sarcasm I find translates very well into Thai. Perhaps some people just are not as humorous as they would like to believe, or just don't use the Thai language well.

Maybe the people are laughing at you and not with you? Just a thought.

My favourite Australian stand-up comedian is a guy called Stephen Hughes.

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm not sure there's consensus here on the differences between wit, sarcasm, understatement, intentional exaggeration, irony, etc.

Brits understand "If I've told you once, I've told you a trillion times." They usually understand that a Texas driver's license is a license to exaggerate.

Yet - whilst acting at times as if Brits still have the original patent on the American English language, they often don't see the intended irony of "I could care less."

Siamese sarcasm? Isaan irony? Lanna loonyness? I have no idea.

[caf]

  IanForbes said:

  Wandering said:

Here are some English sarcastic remarks

Sometimes I need what only you can provide: your absence.

I feel so miserable without you, it's almost like having you here.

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception.

I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it.

I didn't like the play, but then I saw it under adverse conditions - the curtain was up.

The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced.

The trouble with her is that she lacks the power of conversation but not the power of speech.

I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it.

I loved those examples. They sound like something that Winston Churchill would have written. I've heard some acerbic playwright critics say much the same.

Not subtle enough for Churchill. Most were fun quotes from Groucho marx

[sokal]

  rgs2001uk said:

i sugest the op updates his thai langugue skills, try listenening to and underastanading la khon and ley khay,

at times it passes me by but the mrs loves it, double entendres and various other faux pas.

for all those who claim to be fluent in thia language , i suggest you try listening and re-evaluating your language skills.

Speaking of the subject, do you know what wey or way means in Thai ? Some Thai guy said it when my GFs friend told me to answer her phone.

[David006]

  Jingthing said:

I have to admit, I adore SARCASM. I am well aware as I have read it many places and also tried it out on Thais, that sarcasm and Thai culture are not a match.

Assuming you agree with this, can anyone explain why this culture is so averse to SARCASM?

No sure I agree mate... my wife is often zapping me with humorous sarcastic remarks and I her..in English though....then again she has a great sense of humour too as I think most Thais do.

Maybe your referring to the Thai language only or non humourous sarcasm?

I cannot understand the tv game shows but it appears the repartee is thick and fast..sarcasm..don't know?

[sassienie]

  Jingthing said:

I have to admit, I adore SARCASM. I am well aware as I have read it many places and also tried it out on Thais, that sarcasm and Thai culture are not a match.

Assuming you agree with this, can anyone explain why this culture is so averse to SARCASM?

That’s because much of the English language can have double meanings, where as the Thai, it`s what you say is what you mean.

I can remember the classic British comedy film, Carry On Columbus. There are two men stranded on a boat. Both siting at opposite ends of the boat. One is gay. The gay man says to the other guy; if you are lonely you can come up my end if you like. Very funny but a Thai would not get the joke.

For example, if I called a friend who wears glasses a 4 eyed git and smiled or gave a shifty look while I was saying it, the friend would know I am joking, but if I was to say it giving a firm look in a curt voice the friend would take it as an insult.

If one called a Thai a 4 eyed git, or a smart arse etc etc, no matter how you said it, the Thai would take that as an insult.

It`s the same with Sarcasm. Sarcasm is a form of humour that uses sharp, cutting remarks or language intended to mock, wound, or subject to contempt or ridicule, generally saying the opposite of what the statement really is. This would only confuse a Thai speaker and they wouldn’t catch on as to the true meaning of what is actually being said.

Maybe Thais are averse to sarcasm because it`s the lowest form of wit.

So that ends my lesson for today. Tomorrow we will be looking at Algebra.

[Geekfreaklover]

Show an educated Thai, fluent in English language an episode of Blackadder goes forth and they will be completly puzzled.

Show an educated Thai, fluent in English language an episode of Mr Bean and he or she will be rolling around the floor in stiches of laughter.

Same actor. Different brand of humour. I know which one I prefer and I know which one the Thais prefer.

It's nice to have our own western style of humour. It would be boring if everyone liked the same thing.

[Heng]

  sanook2me said:

  Heng said:

Make it 2. I didn't really mean it.

Its not like a Thai to lie จริงจริง

It's only a lie when the other party matters. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

[mrtoad]

  MiG16 said:

  mrtoad said:

Make it three. You forgot the previous poster.

it has a name

Darling?

[sonicdragon]

  Geekfreaklover said:

Show an educated Thai, fluent in English language an episode of Blackadder goes forth and they will be completly puzzled.

Show an educated Thai, fluent in English language an episode of Mr Bean and he or she will be rolling around the floor in stiches of laughter.

Same actor. Different brand of humour. I know which one I prefer and I know which one the Thais prefer.

It's nice to have our own western style of humour. It would be boring if everyone liked the same thing.

Interesting thread and I think this post highlights that sarcasm comes in more than one flavour. I have American and Australian friends who are puzzled by Blackadder 2,3, and 4. They also don't like shows such as Have I Got News for You which I enjoy. Personally, Blackadder 2 is one of my favourite shows of all time. I must have been around 16 when it first aired. Unbeknownst to me, two of my wife's cousins were living in the UK at that time. One arrived aged around 10 and left aged 24. He has a younger brother who was born in the UK and left aged 12. Nowadays, I often watch old Blackadder episodes with the elder brother. The younger, who speaks perfect English, has no interest whatsoever. Talking to both of them about this, they told me most Thais would find "English" sarcasm somewhat offensive, and the "Thai version" probably wouldn't be considered as sarcasm by many Brits.

Edit: typos

[CrossBones]

  Jingthing said:

I have to admit, I adore SARCASM. I am well aware as I have read it many places and also tried it out on Thais, that sarcasm and Thai culture are not a match.

Assuming you agree with this, can anyone explain why this culture is so averse to SARCASM?

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit

[Rumfoord]

you are praising that show from the clip below or are you trying to be sarcastic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG9kqmhWMbk

[sonicdragon]

  Rumfoord said:

you are praising that show from the clip below or are you trying to be sarcastic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG9kqmhWMbk

Yes. The "Beer" episode. Classic. However, to appreciate it I'd recommend watching it in its entirety. Same applies to the other episodes. My personal favourite from that series is "Money".

[Rumfoord]

  klikster said:

  Jingthing said:

Here is another situational example of classic sarcasm that I don't most Thais would understand. You are a restaurant and you order a pad Thai. They bring you a huge platter with a huge portion (way more than you can eat). So you say you could feed a village with this pad Thai! , I don't think the typical Thai would think you were being sarcastic and MOCKING the size of the portion. I think if they understand the language, they would take you LITERALLY. But you weren't being literal, you were being SARCASTIC.

In this example you seem to be using a western idiom to attempt sarcasm. Unless they understand the idiom, they have not much choice other than to take the comment literally.

i would understand the whole story if it would be about a very tiny and extreme small portion. if i would comment it: hey that will fill up my stomach for the rest of the week i guess the thai person who share table and meal with my would understand my intention and don't take it for literally.

but where is the reason to become sarcastic when i get a super big sized portion of Pad Thai?

methinks some people adore themselves to much and overestimate their wit and sense of humour. and more than sometimes i observe that Westerners taking quotes and words from Thais to literal and don't get the joke.

[Rumfoord]

  sonicdragon said:

Yes. The "Beer" episode. Classic. However, to appreciate it I'd recommend watching it in its entirety. Same applies to the other episodes. My personal favourite from that series is "Money".

i know Fawlty Towers and a couple of other British comedy shows and can laugh about them and think they are funny.

i didn't knew Blackadder. the selected clip was just the first hit, the one that came up on a quick internet search. it doesn't look so convincing that there is some more sophisticated humour behind, but a comedy with a very basic approach. but i believe that there are 'better' episodes, that proves the point that it is different from benny hill or mr. bean.

the Thai humour isn't only that slapstick shows with the ding dong and boing sounds, and that form is also not equally loved by all Thais. the thai cinema productions have a wide range of different fineness of humour.

[sonicdragon]

  Rumfoord said:

  sonicdragon said:

Yes. The "Beer" episode. Classic. However, to appreciate it I'd recommend watching it in its entirety. Same applies to the other episodes. My personal favourite from that series is "Money".

i know Fawlty Towers and a couple of other British comedy shows and can laugh about them and think they are funny.

i didn't knew Blackadder. the selected clip was just the first hit, the one that came up on a quick internet search. it doesn't look so convincing that there is some more sophisticated humour behind, but a comedy with a very basic approach. but i believe that there are 'better' episodes, that proves the point that it is different from benny hill or mr. bean.

the Thai humour isn't only that slapstick shows with the ding dong and boing sounds, and that form is also not equally loved by all Thais. the thai cinema productions have a wide range of different fineness of humour.

I love Fawlty Towers, and a multitude of other British comedies, but we are talking here about sarcasm, and Fawlty Towers is not that kind of humour. Unfortunately you didn't choose a great example for a 4 minute sample from that particular episode of Blackadder 2.

[YoungNRich12]

Its funny that farang who are not fluent in Thai are always so willing to make criticisms on Thai language based subjects such as literature or sarcasm. Their opinions are about as useful as a blind man's thoughts on The Last Supper.

[sonicdragon]

  Rumfoord said:

  klikster said:

  Jingthing said:

Here is another situational example of classic sarcasm that I don't most Thais would understand. You are a restaurant and you order a pad Thai. They bring you a huge platter with a huge portion (way more than you can eat). So you say you could feed a village with this pad Thai! , I don't think the typical Thai would think you were being sarcastic and MOCKING the size of the portion. I think if they understand the language, they would take you LITERALLY. But you weren't being literal, you were being SARCASTIC.

In this example you seem to be using a western idiom to attempt sarcasm. Unless they understand the idiom, they have not much choice other than to take the comment literally.

i would understand the whole story if it would be about a very tiny and extreme small portion. if i would comment it: hey that will fill up my stomach for the rest of the week i guess the thai person who share table and meal with my would understand my intention and don't take it for literally.

but where is the reason to become sarcastic when i get a super big sized portion of Pad Thai?

methinks some people adore themselves to much and overestimate their wit and sense of humour. and more than sometimes i observe that Westerners taking quotes and words from Thais to literal and don't get the joke.

I agree (as far as the example quoted is concerned)

[sonicdragon]

  YoungNRich12 said:

Its funny that farang who are not fluent in Thai are always so willing to make criticisms on Thai language based subjects such as literature or sarcasm. Their opinions are about as useful as a blind man's thoughts on The Last Supper.

I'm certainly not making any criticisms of Thai language. I thought we were discussing the concept of sarcasm in Thai culture.

[noahvail]

I've just read through this fascinating thread - no sarcasm intended. While I speak close to no Thai, I can 'read' my wife well enough to know when she's being sarcastic in Thai, to other Thais. The tones are all there, but they are exaggerated, the facial expression changes, and so on. She speaks English well enough to get through the literal meaning of my sarcastic remarks to the real meaning.

I must note that Oscar Wilde has been half-quoted three times in this thread. The full quote is "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence." In English, in Thai, in any language I've been exposed to, sarcasm exists. But I don't know whether 'cutting' sarcasm exists in all languages, though I suspect it does.

And in Fawlty Towers, half of Basil's lines to his character wife are sarcastic. But I'd classify it as 'pathetic sarcasm' - sarcasm that is lost on, or ignored by, the person it's intended for...and I think that was part and parcel of his character. But hey, like everyone else, I'm a critic.

[sanook2me]

  Heng said:

  sanook2me said:

  Heng said:

Make it 2. I didn't really mean it.

Its not like a Thai to lie จริงจริง

It's only a lie when the other party matters. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

Whatever you do..don’t congratulate yourself too much! You’re not that good !!

[321niti123]

There is sarcasm in Thai but it is not used as a form of humor, but more of an offensive type statement (used to insult someone but make it sound nicer than it really is)-to do it you must be able to play with the sounds of the words.

The sounds are important like english, but they are different type of sounds that is why thais dont understand western sarcasm and westerners dont understand thai sarcasm.

[Chaimai]

  CrossBones said:

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit

... and the highest form of intellect.

[Jingthing]

OMG, this thread is still going?

[Chaimai]

  Jingthing said:

OMG, this thread is still going?

Was that sarcasm

(I am not sure anymore)

[Chaimai]

  Jingthing said:

OMG, this thread is still going?

That is a bit rich coming from somebody who started the Do You Plan To Reduce Your Use Of Malls In Thailand? topic