Custody Laws Regarding Half-thai Child

[sylvafern]

There is always so many topics on here about custody of children that it has made me start to worry that I do not have legal custody of my son although it is mutual between his dad and myself.

My son's father is Thai and so my son is a Thai citizen with Thai passport but he also has NZ citizenship and a passport. I was never married to my son's father. We split up 2 years ago after I found out he'd been cheating on me (do not have hard evidence of this anymore as accidently deleted the incriminating email - friends saw it though) and we've lived separately ever since.

My son stays with me full time and sees his father once a week or so. I am much more financially able to take care of my son and provide a better life for him, but it worries me if his father finds himself in a better position financially in the future (he works in an industry where this may become a possibility) and decided he wants my son to live with him. Or what if I decide to leave Thailand - would he legally be able to force my son to stay here?

Do people think I should be getting legal custody or do you think it's safe to continue as we are? At the moment it is all agreeable between us.

[Boo]

Personally I would get a court signed document granting you full custody with a side agreement of visitiation just to pre-empt any issues in future.

If you left thailand with your son & dad didn't know it then there would be nothing he could do as there is no abduction laws in thailand when one parent takes the child away from the other but if he were aware of the plan then he could in theory approach the courts & put a stop to any & all travel without his permission.

If you have a good relationship then you should approach him with this arrangement now instead of waiting until things deterioate or he later decides he wants custody (if he ever does) as now it is do-able but then it will be impossible.

[0Mix1up]

If you left thailand with your son & dad didn't know it then there would be nothing he could do as there is no abduction laws in thailand when one parent takes the child away from the other but if he were aware of the plan then he could in theory approach the courts & put a stop to any & all travel without his permission.

Child stealing by a mother is still child stealing and he has the right to stop such action!!!

an amicable signed parenting plan is the first step, keeping the courts out of it if possible!

Edited August 21, 2008 by 0Mix1up

[poshthai]

A little bit harsh there boo,considering none of us know the full story,you are assuming that the lady is the one hard done by.The father would be devastated with them actions and could ruin his whole life.

[Boo]

0mix1up & poshthai, please show me where in that post have I said that I agree or am suggesting she do it? Try to re-read what has been written & get off your high horses.

I am stating a fact only. There is no law in Thailand that makes it illegal for a mother or father taking their child from the other to another country or another part of the country. The police will not act or get involved.

Also poshthai, where have i said that i think the mother is hard done by? You might need a pair of glasses.

[0Mix1up]

Boo your going to defend this?!!!

If you left thailand with your son & dad didn't know it then there would be nothing he could

that is a suggestion!!!

worded correctly it would read

"there are no abduction laws in Thailand so either parent could take the child out of the country without the others consent"

Using the word "you" and "your son" etc. is what it is!

Can you see that without trying to belittle my post?

[Boo]

It seems to me that you have taken only a small part of my first post & decided to make an issue over it but as there is nothing in there encourgaging her to take her child I will break the whole thing down for you to make it clearer;

She asked;

Or what if I decide to leave Thailand - would he legally be able to force my son to stay here?

So the section you quoted & have such a problem with is a direct reply to that, stating the law as it stands.

but I also said;

If you have a good relationship then you should approach him with this arrangement now

So clearly, not telling her to abduct her child. If English is not your first langauge then I can possibly understand your misreading this but don't try to twist my words into something that was not said to suit whatever point you are trying to make.

Using the word "you" and "your son" etc. is what it is!

Of course I would used the words "you" & "your son" as I am replying directly to the OP, what other words should I use for her son instead of "your son"?

So, my post is providing firstly my personal opinion on what I would do in the same situation (1st paragraph) & the the 2nd paragraph is stating thai law. Nothing more sinister than the facts as they stand.

BUT if you had read my 3rd paragraph, I did also say that I would try to resolve this issue now so that the worst case would not have to happen in future.

Hopefully this is now clear (but I have a feeling.... )

[Goinghomesoon]

You might also want to consider what type of document would be acceptable to NZ authorities if ever required. For example if you needed to get another NZ passport for your child and the father would not agree? I am not suggesting this is the current scenario. But things might change and it pays to know where you stand. Would a court order be the only acceptable custody document to NZ authorities or would a parenting agreement or an amphur-witnessed document be adequate? If you returned to NZ would you need to go to court again to get a NZ-issued custody order. Or will they recognise an overseas ruling?

[sylvafern]

Ooo ... sorry to have caused a bit of an argument!!

Thanks for the advice Boo, and don't worry others.... I am not going to run off and 'steal' my child. I've worked hard to keep his father in his life even though he's the one that cheated on me and I could have easily made things difficult. If I plan to leave the country, his dad will definitely know well in advance.

Everything is actually very amicable now - I was concerned just in case things change in the future and I wanted to see what others thought about making things legal now.

Mix-up ... what do you mean by an amicable signed parenting plan - if the courts are kept out, does that mean it's legal or is it a document that can be used to show what has been going on if their are custody issues in the future?

[kconor]

There is always so many topics on here about custody of children that it has made me start to worry that I do not have legal custody of my son although it is mutual between his dad and myself.

My son's father is Thai and so my son is a Thai citizen with Thai passport but he also has NZ citizenship and a passport. I was never married to my son's father. We split up 2 years ago after I found out he'd been cheating on me (do not have hard evidence of this anymore as accidently deleted the incriminating email - friends saw it though) and we've lived separately ever since.

My son stays with me full time and sees his father once a week or so. I am much more financially able to take care of my son and provide a better life for him, but it worries me if his father finds himself in a better position financially in the future (he works in an industry where this may become a possibility) and decided he wants my son to live with him. Or what if I decide to leave Thailand - would he legally be able to force my son to stay here?

Do people think I should be getting legal custody or do you think it's safe to continue as we are? At the moment it is all agreeable between us.

[orlandoiam]

I'm actually having a similiar issue. Thai father (but not married) , and we've been together about 4 years but things (perhaps the stress of a new baby) just seem as if we're never going to meet eye to eye. Culture, education, economics, interests... they're all so different.

Our daughter was born in a little town where they said she couldn't take both of our last names. So being a bit more traditional than I realized I was, I gave her his last name.

He's said he would definitely give me her to raise if we ever split, as I have more means to finances and education for her future. But, not sure if I need some kind of letter or something to leave the country with her. I'm United States citizen by the way.

Does anyone know anything about Thai law pertaining to this?

[GuestHouse]

If you left thailand with your son & dad didn't know it then there would be nothing he could do as there is no abduction laws in thailand when one parent takes the child away from the other but if he were aware of the plan then he could in theory approach the courts & put a stop to any & all travel without his permission.

This is very bad advice, while Thailand is not a signatory of the Hague Convention, New Zealand certainly is.

That is not to suggest the OP is considering abducting her own child, rather that doing so and turning up in New Zealand with her son minus the father's consent would be breaking New Zealand law.

[Boo]

It was not advice, as already established by other later posts, but using the senario to state the law in thailand as it stands now.

[0Mix1up]

Ooo ... sorry to have caused a bit of an argument!!

Thanks for the advice Boo, and don't worry others.... I am not going to run off and 'steal' my child. I've worked hard to keep his father in his life even though he's the one that cheated on me and I could have easily made things difficult. If I plan to leave the country, his dad will definitely know well in advance.

Everything is actually very amicable now - I was concerned just in case things change in the future and I wanted to see what others thought about making things legal now.

Mix-up ... what do you mean by an amicable signed parenting plan - if the courts are kept out, does that mean it's legal or is it a document that can be used to show what has been going on if their are custody issues in the future?

hi

i was never sugesting that you were going to steal your child, sorry if it read that way, my reply was reacting to the arm chair internet experts who have zero experience bleating out extremely bad advice.

i'm not sure about parenting plans legalities in thailand or nz but if done correctly it would carry weight in any court or actions should it turn ugly.

i believe it could be written up and signed outside the court system then ratafied by the courts or authority

doing it when things are amicable is the best for all but approaching someone with this stuff can start problems in itself, part of the reason why its called a parenting plan not visitation rights or other such nastier plans/documents

you sit down and talk about what is best for the child and agree on stuff that you both want to or can do

write it down etc.etc.

contacting a thai lawyer with some experience in family law would be the best step forward.

its pleasing to see that you want to do the right thing by the child and the father

hope it works out well for you and your family

[orlandoiam]

sorry to have broken into sylvafern's thread-- but it seemed to be a related topic.

would anyone mind giving me a little advice? I'd like to be home before christmas and just wondering if there's anything I should do.

[Boo]

Have you asked your bf to write a letter for you? Have you discussed with him the idea of moving back to the states alone with baby?

IMO these things need to be discussed as calmly & civily as possible first & also speak with a lawyer about the legalities of it so that you know exactly where you stand.

If your bf has major objection to you moving away then he should be consulting his own lawyer too.

[Mario2008]

I'm actually having a similiar issue. Thai father (but not married) , and we've been together about 4 years but things (perhaps the stress of a new baby) just seem as if we're never going to meet eye to eye. Culture, education, economics, interests... they're all so different.

Our daughter was born in a little town where they said she couldn't take both of our last names. So being a bit more traditional than I realized I was, I gave her his last name.

He's said he would definitely give me her to raise if we ever split, as I have more means to finances and education for her future. But, not sure if I need some kind of letter or something to leave the country with her. I'm United States citizen by the way.

Does anyone know anything about Thai law pertaining to this?

You were not marreid, so the first thing you need to find out is if the father legalised (recognized) the child as his. That is done by the father, when he registered the child at the amphur. That the father is named on the birth certificate is in itself not enough.

If the father didn't registered the child himself, chances are he is not the legal father and you have sole costudy.

If you just leave, which I advise against, you don't need a letter from the father. Under Thai law you can just take the child with you and he can do the same. Do however realise that a child needs his father and try to work something out with him in the interest of the child.

[orlandoiam]

Thank you for the advice. Neither the father and I are in the position to hire lawyers. But we are discussing things civilly and openly. It's a shame things aren't working out as I really want her father around for her. He has registered her at his ampher but as long as I have a letter from him (perhaps with a copy of his passport) I shouldn't have a problem at the airport. Right?

[Boo]

The likelihood of you being asked for a letter is minimal, I've traveled alone with my son in Thailand & Europe alot in his 18months & have never once been asked but with a letter & copy of id/passport you will have all bases covered. Good luck to you all.

Sorry forgot to add that my son & I both carry my husbands surname.

[wolfmanjack]

I have taken both of my children out of thailand several times. Every time i had a new passport for my children i had to have a letter from their mother in addition to copies of the birth certificates. This happened at both Chiang mai Airport and Bangkok Airport. On the first occasion at the bangkok airport their mother was with us and immigration had her write the letter then and their. When i had old passports that already had stamps out of the country copies of the birth certificates were enough. I am not sure what the law says but the immigration official told us it was only mandatory on the first time they leave the country.

[Mario2008]

Interesting post, Wolfmanjack. May I ask if your children were traveling on a Thai or foreign passport, as for a Thai passport both parents need to sign? That might implicate that both parents agree that the children can travel and a document from the other parent when traveling is not needed.

[wolfmanjack]

Interesting post, Wolfmanjack. May I ask if your children were traveling on a Thai or foreign passport, as for a Thai passport both parents need to sign? That might implicate that both parents agree that the children can travel and a document from the other parent when traveling is not needed.

They were traveling on an USA passport. The passport was issued in thailand and the place of birth is listed as thailand. I assume that is why they felt i needed a letter from the mother.

[markibin]

i have 2 half thai children and want to go back to the uk to visit my sick mum,i have uk passports for the kids,is this ok for me to take them out of thailand i have permission from the mother if needed,but are the uk passports enough,i have to go soon so quick answers appreciated preferably from someone who has done this before please

[Boo]

Yes, they are your children, they are British citizens, you have their passports & permission from their mother. Book the tickets & go. Hope your mum gets better.

Do they have Thai passports so that they will not be subject to immigration rule when you return with them?

[markibin]

Yes, they are your children, they are British citizens, you have their passports & permission from their mother. Book the tickets & go. Hope your mum gets better.

Do they have Thai passports so that they will not be subject to immigration rule when you return with them?

No they do not have thai passports yet that is why i am asking if there will be any problem when i leave with them as they will have no entry stamps or anything,i have been told uk passports which i aqquired here will suffice,but i just want to know for sure as i have not got time to get thai passports that prob i will sort out when i return

[Mario2008]

You can leave and re-enter Thailand on their UK passports. It would be better to get Thai pasports, because when they return tey will be considered UK nationals and are subject to immigration rules. However for children there is no overstay, etc and next time you leave Thailand you will have to do that again on their UK passports, so they have left the country. After that they return on their THai passport and they will be considered Thai as far as immigration is considered. (If they are old enough to have a Thai ID card they might be able to re-enter Thailand on that).

Take their birth certificate with you, it will show that they were born here and because of that don't have a file of their entry etc.!

[samran]

Yes, they are your children, they are British citizens, you have their passports & permission from their mother. Book the tickets & go. Hope your mum gets better.

Do they have Thai passports so that they will not be subject to immigration rule when you return with them?

No they do not have thai passports yet that is why i am asking if there will be any problem when i leave with them as they will have no entry stamps or anything,i have been told uk passports which i aqquired here will suffice,but i just want to know for sure as i have not got time to get thai passports that prob i will sort out when i return

not sure of your travel plans, but thai passports take three days to issue. Just had one issued last week for our little one, who is now down in Australia.

You'll find that the thai passport office is incredibly efficient, though, it will require both parents to be present when you apply.