PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[bazmlb]

Airports at Phuket and Hat Yai remain open for flights

Airports Authority of Thailand issued a statement on Friday confirming that air services at Phuket and Hat Yai remain normal.

There is no reports that inbound and outboud passengers have missed their flights.

Protesters blocked the gates to the grounds of the two airports but this did not disrupt the flights.

The Nation

[jayjayjayjay]

If some politicain has a political solution to the ever expanding divide in the country now would be a very good time for them to step forward. Pretty soon it wuill be too late. Now is not a time for being stubborn or putting self interest first

sadly....... it'll probably never happen

The real mess was caused by a military coup 2 years ago. This was predicted, it's all on record.

Thai's have always been compassionate and flexible in dealing with rule of law, corruption etc. Take Chatchai's fall in 1991, he made billions by bringing foreign investment to Thailand, gotta a reciept then it's not corruption!!!! (those billions now belong to his Senator son Kriengsak 555555). He was deposed, had a couple of weeks holiday in Kanchanaburi, then returned to live another day enjoyed old relationships. This whole PAD struggle is a middle ground the Thailand doesn't know how to deal with. Thaksin is not being treated like the older corrupt PM's. They are asking for hard jail time. That never happened before, and I believe very few of the PPP/TRT supporters could accept Thaksin being jailed for what they see as trumpted up charges to remove him from office (do not quote me on this as being fact, I am interpreting my Thai staff opinions). So where to go from here......... As others have said, our western understanding of Thai ways, and that includes their concept of democracy verse our concept, our understanding of dispute settlement etc is so far appart that I truely feel few here can understand what solution is best for this country. If hammered, Tony or H90 had there way, Thaksin would spend the rest of his days on earth festering in 3m square cell in the Bangkok Hilton. There is not precedent for that!

Would Thailand ever function as an Australia or UK democracy does? Is it the best option? When and how long before it could be a reality under existing constitutions AND the X factor in Thailand's higher level extra constitutionality(treading carefully mods). Personally I like the way it was!

[hammered]

(BangkokPost.com) - Deputy Prime Minister Surapong Suebwonglee said Friday he believes political tension between the government and People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) would ease in one week.

Mr Surapong also reiterated that the government would solve political problem through peaceful means.

He also said that foreign investors understand the problem well, adding that the government is able to show them that it is able to control the situation carefully.

Well a true politicians non-statement.

When referring to tensions will ease between the government and PAD in a week does he mean a new and different government or has he just been on mind altering drugs?

[fidelio]

Looks like we'll wake up tomorrow under martial law...

[TexasRanger]

A few hundred people in yellow shirts are gathering here at the ferry pier on Samui, getting more every minute. Free ferry/bus rides to Bangkok are offered. PAD has a lot of support down here.

I don't take sides (at least not openly on this forum), just reporting facts. Go on ridiculing the people of your host country if it makes you happy. BTW, are the PAD-sheep really worse than the texas-cows following the bush clan?

Ditto.

I had a specific choice to make:

Thinking I was to move from Europe to Texas,

then Thailand suddenly became an option.

2 weeks here and the idea of meeting a Bush conservative

and getting harangued for eastern US roots and time spent in France...

and it was not a hard choice.

Like being a poor Burmese in Thailand

a Yankee in Bush country has a too tough life. Thailand it was.

Calling your hosts sheep is pretty pejorative, no?

What does pejorative mean?

[longtom]

A few hundred people in yellow shirts are gathering here at the ferry pier on Samui, getting more every minute. Free ferry/bus rides to Bangkok are offered. PAD has a lot of support down here.

I don't take sides (at least not openly on this forum), just reporting facts. Go on ridiculing the people of your host country if it makes you happy. BTW, are the PAD-sheep really worse than the texas-cows following the bush clan?

Ditto.

I had a specific choice to make:

Thinking I was to move from Europe to Texas,

then Thailand suddenly became an option.

2 weeks here and the idea of meeting a Bush conservative

and getting harangued for eastern US roots and time spent in France...

and it was not a hard choice.

Like being a poor Burmese in Thailand

a Yankee in Bush country has a too tough life. Thailand it was.

Calling your hosts sheep is pretty pejorative, no?

I would never call them sheep myself, was merely converting the picture to words, maybe should have put quotes around. Apologies to all sheep .

Edited August 29, 2008 by longtom

[animatic]

Well the rail strike put it atop CNN Asia's coverage

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...ests/index.html

Thai rail strike pressures government

* Story Highlights

* Protesters want Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to resign

* Railway union calls for nationwide suspension of service to support protests

* Samak prevented from getting inside his official residence

* Samak accused of trying to amend the constitution so Thaksin can avoid charges

"The leader of the PAD, Sondhi Limthongkul, has told me that the entire political system needs to be changed and says that perhaps Thailand isn't ready for full democracy because of the endemic corruption." Dan Rivers reporting for Cnn...

So, just to confirm, he definitely doens't want democratic rights eroded right?

If you leave out the word 'perhaps'.

As in maybe. It also has the qualifier 'full'.

So I don't read this for a tearing down of the country,

but postulating and idea.

Most people are either;

avidly against the current corrupt government system,

or

screaming for the corrupt status quo as being a good pure democracy.

NEITHER seem acceptable solutions at this juncture.

More radical ideas are all right IF they lead THOUGH about

truly workable ideas.

Sondhi never told Dan River's he is trying to impose this,

he said perhaps this is what might be needed.

The world here is 256+ layers of gray,

if you see it in purist black and white you understand little.

[newworks]

do the thai people want democracy or not? i think that the answer is clear. someday perhaps the middle- and upper-class people in this country will be mature enough to accept the results of an election, but they obviously are not up to that level of sophistication yet.

Getting elected does not mean politicians have carte blanche and are free to break the law. People are protesting because the present government is corrupt.

As, I am sure, will be the next one...

exactly! which brings us right back to:

do the thai people want democracy or not? i think that the answer is clear. someday perhaps the middle- and upper-class people in this country will be mature enough to accept the results of an election, but they obviously are not up to that level of sophistication yet.

[jayjayjayjay]

15,000 THAI unionists told to strike

The chairwoman of the labour union of Thai Airways International Friday told 15,000 members of the union to strike in retaliation of police's brutality.

Chaemsri Sukchoterat said 15,000 members of the union would stop working immediately to respond to the police's use of force against peaceful protesters.

She said if the government did not stop using force against protesters, all 25,000 Thai workers would be told to stop working.

The Nation

So 2 people exactly, Chaemsir Sukchoterat of Thai and some other idiot of State Rail should determine the political outcome of an elected government.............. As Sondhi says, democracy is not for Thailand horray horray...... the little Chinaman has no way out now...........

[hammered]

If some politicain has a political solution to the ever expanding divide in the country now would be a very good time for them to step forward. Pretty soon it wuill be too late. Now is not a time for being stubborn or putting self interest first

sadly....... it'll probably never happen

The real mess was caused by a military coup 2 years ago. This was predicted, it's all on record.

Thai's have always been compassionate and flexible in dealing with rule of law, corruption etc. Take Chatchai's fall in 1991, he made billions by bringing foreign investment to Thailand, gotta a reciept then it's not corruption!!!! (those billions now belong to his Senator son Kriengsak 555555). He was deposed, had a couple of weeks holiday in Kanchanaburi, then returned to live another day enjoyed old relationships. This whole PAD struggle is a middle ground the Thailand doesn't know how to deal with. Thaksin is not being treated like the older corrupt PM's. They are asking for hard jail time. That never happened before, and I believe very few of the PPP/TRT supporters could accept Thaksin being jailed for what they see as trumpted up charges to remove him from office (do not quote me on this as being fact, I am interpreting my Thai staff opinions). So where to go from here......... As others have said, our western understanding of Thai ways, and that includes their concept of democracy verse our concept, our understanding of dispute settlement etc is so far appart that I truely feel few here can understand what solution is best for this country. If hammered, Tony or H90 had there way, Thaksin would spend the rest of his days on earth festering in 3m square cell in the Bangkok Hilton. There is not precedent for that!

Would Thailand ever function as an Australia or UK democracy does? Is it the best option? When and how long before it could be a reality under existing constitutions AND the X factor in Thailand's higher level extra constitutionality(treading carefully mods). Personally I like the way it was!

Please dont make assumptions on what I think. Personally I do not think Thaksin should rot in some jail for ever.

I would also humbly suggets that the issue is not just the PAD on some non-understood middle ground versus Thaksin but something very different that this is all about. However, I am not willing to enter that debate as the mods have made policy here clear.

Peace

[animatic]

A few hundred people in yellow shirts are gathering here at the ferry pier on Samui, getting more every minute. Free ferry/bus rides to Bangkok are offered. PAD has a lot of support down here.

I don't take sides (at least not openly on this forum), just reporting facts. Go on ridiculing the people of your host country if it makes you happy. BTW, are the PAD-sheep really worse than the texas-cows following the bush clan?

Ditto.

I had a specific choice to make:

Thinking I was to move from Europe to Texas,

then Thailand suddenly became an option.

2 weeks here and the idea of meeting a Bush conservative

and getting harangued for eastern US roots and time spent in France...

and it was not a hard choice.

Like being a poor Burmese in Thailand

a Yankee in Bush country has a too tough life. Thailand it was.

Calling your hosts sheep is pretty pejorative, no?

What does pejorative mean?

You asked.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This

pe·jor·a·tive Audio Help (pĭ-jôr'ə-tĭv, -jŏr'-, pěj'ə-rā'tĭv, pē'jə-) Pronunciation Key

adj.

1. Tending to make or become worse.

2. Disparaging; belittling.

n. A disparaging or belittling word or expression.

[Crushdepth]

do the thai people want democracy or not? i think that the answer is clear. someday perhaps the middle- and upper-class people in this country will be mature enough to accept the results of an election, but they obviously are not up to that level of sophistication yet.

Getting elected does not mean politicians have carte blanche and are free to break the law. People are protesting because the present government is corrupt.

As, I am sure, will be the next one...

Yeah, bit of a problem that. I have some hope (not much) that the courts are now going to start putting corrupt politicians behind bars, thanks to a few polite reminders about Judicial Duties from HM. If enough politicians start doing time for breaking the law then maybe the system will slowly will start to improve.

But changing the constitution to permit corrupt politicians to stay (eg. those that engage in electoral fraud) would be a massive step backwards and would perpetuate the problem.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Crushdepth

[SureeratTang]

Why not call all the Thai Labour Union to stop work for 1 months. No wonder a lot of Management want to get rid of this people.

[plachon]

Question to Younghusband and some other PAD-critics/sceptics who have written the movement off umpteen times in the last 6 months, describing them as "marginalised" and a spent force. Now the PAD has held Government House for 3 days and basically paralysed this utterly corrup govt, while Thai Airways, SRT and other unions are coming out in favour of PAD , are you prepared to reassess your position?

[Thai at Heart]

Well the rail strike put it atop CNN Asia's coverage

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...ests/index.html

Thai rail strike pressures government

* Story Highlights

* Protesters want Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to resign

* Railway union calls for nationwide suspension of service to support protests

* Samak prevented from getting inside his official residence

* Samak accused of trying to amend the constitution so Thaksin can avoid charges

"The leader of the PAD, Sondhi Limthongkul, has told me that the entire political system needs to be changed and says that perhaps Thailand isn't ready for full democracy because of the endemic corruption." Dan Rivers reporting for Cnn...

http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/20...hi-limthongkul/

Khun Sondhi said that while he was not happy with the coup, he was very happy it had happened. He reiterated the reasons he has presented many times before about why former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra had so abused power that only a coup could remove him. He said that if the coup had not happened on September 19th there would have been bloodshed the following day in a confrontation between those attending a rally to protest his continuing in office and Thaksin’s supporters.

He argued that there cannot be electoral democracy in Thailand such as is found in the West because most people outside the middle class lack sufficient knowledge to understand how power can be abused. The rural people only vote, he claimed, for those who pay them either directly through party organizers (hua khanaen) or indirectly through the populist programs. He compared the populist programs of Thaksin to those of Peron in Argentina. Khun Sondhi said that in the future he himself will work only with the middle class who have sufficient education to truly understand how populist politicians can abuse power. He added that while the middle class is found primarily in Bangkok, it is also represented in the urban areas of each province.

Khun Sondhi said that politicians of all parties in Thailand are characterized by kilet, a Buddhist term that in Thai means greed for power, wealth and fulfillment of sexual passion. He was quite dismissive of a written constitution as the basis for governance in Thailand. He said that only if the people have a spirit of democracy can democracy truly exist. Without a constitution, the only institution that can assure good governance is the monarchy. He said that ‘royal prerogative’ (phraratchamnat) is deeply respected and embodies the spirit of the nation.

Direct quotation from the link

So, just to confirm, he definitely doens't want democratic rights eroded right?

If you leave out the word 'perhaps'.

As in maybe. It also has the qualifier 'full'.

So I don't read this for a tearing down of the country,

but postulating and idea.

Most people are either;

avidly against the current corrupt government system,

or

screaming for the corrupt status quo as being a good pure democracy.

NEITHER seem acceptable solutions at this juncture.

More radical ideas are all right IF they lead THOUGH about

truly workable ideas.

Sondhi never told Dan River's he is trying to impose this,

he said perhaps this is what might be needed.

The world here is 256+ layers of gray,

if you see it in purist black and white you understand little.

[animatic]

do the thai people want democracy or not? i think that the answer is clear. someday perhaps the middle- and upper-class people in this country will be mature enough to accept the results of an election, but they obviously are not up to that level of sophistication yet.

Getting elected does not mean politicians have carte blanche and are free to break the law. People are protesting because the present government is corrupt.

As, I am sure, will be the next one...

exactly! which brings us right back to:

do the thai people want democracy or not? i think that the answer is clear. someday perhaps the middle- and upper-class people in this country will be mature enough to accept the results of an election, but they obviously are not up to that level of sophistication yet.

I think they are,

IF that elected government is capable of doing the job and not robbing them blind.

This is a street referendum on Thaksin's Proxys and their time in office, not democracy per se.

Sadly, I saw this comeing in one form or another the day Samak got in.

It was not neccessarily PAD doing it, but the PPP/Samak win was an omen of

a 2nd showdown over the same issues : rapacious graft and policy corruption.

It was a pretty easy thing to see coming. The how, when and where were unknowns.

This times there's a ghost in the machine, not as easy a target.

Oh, and please don't imagine I WANT this all happening.

I wish they had got it right in December.

Edited August 29, 2008 by animatic

[ubonjoe]

In a lot of countries Thai Airways would be running to the Courts seeking action to stop an illigal strike.

Don't strikes usely require a vote of the members.

[h90]

Why not call all the Thai Labour Union to stop work for 1 months. No wonder a lot of Management want to get rid of this people.

you went in a school which did not teach history, right?

If you would have learned a bit than you would know why labour unions exist and how it was before.

[hammered]

do the thai people want democracy or not? i think that the answer is clear. someday perhaps the middle- and upper-class people in this country will be mature enough to accept the results of an election, but they obviously are not up to that level of sophistication yet.

Getting elected does not mean politicians have carte blanche and are free to break the law. People are protesting because the present government is corrupt.

As, I am sure, will be the next one...

Yeah, bit of a problem that. I have some hope (not much) that the courts are now going to start putting corrupt politicians behind bars, thanks to a few polite reminders about Judicial Duties from HM. If enough of them are put away then maybe the system will slowly will start to improve.

But changing the constitution to permit corrupt politicians to stay (eg. those that engage in electoral fraud) would be a massive step backwards and would perpetuate the problem.

I think that what we have seen this week is a little taster of what is to come if the government tries to change the constitution. Anyone who suggests that right now and means chnage to let Thaksin off is talking suicide

I wonder if the government have got that little message if of course they make it that far

[Jingthing]

Well I think we all knew that Samak was not going to last very long as PM of Orientalland, but the question was not so much as if he would leave early, but how. So maybe we are seeing the how now. I hope that some day the Oriental people here can get a decent government, but I doubt this will be very soon at all. Things will get worse before they get better. I personally don't understand the rationale of the optimists about Oriental politics here. Orientals will say we don't understand the Oriental way. They are probably right.

(BTW, there is new linguistic movement to call everything Thai ORIENTAL, as long as we are called FARANGS, it is only fair play.)

Edited August 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[bazmlb]

Power cut at Mae Moh power plant threatened

A senior staff of Mae Moh Power Plant in Lampang threatened to shut down the plant if the government continued using forces to disperse protesters.

The Nation

[ando]

15,000 THAI unionists told to strike

The chairwoman of the labour union of Thai Airways International Friday told 15,000 members of the union to strike in retaliation of police's brutality.

Chaemsri Sukchoterat said 15,000 members of the union would stop working immediately to respond to the police's use of force against peaceful protesters.

She said if the government did not stop using force against protesters, all 25,000 Thai workers would be told to stop working.

The Nation

How ironic that the unions (who are supposed to represent the workers) are supporting the agenda of the elite ruling class. I wonder who controls the unions?

[jumnien]

Question to Younghusband and some other PAD-critics/sceptics who have written the movement off umpteen times in the last 6 months, describing them as "marginalised" and a spent force. Now the PAD has held Government House for 3 days and basically paralysed this utterly corrup govt, while Thai Airways, SRT and other unions are coming out in favour of PAD , are you prepared to reassess your position?

Yes, it is time to reassess our position in light of recent events. I would say that our previous assessment that PAD members were primarily made up of scum with a smidgeon of naive fools thrown in was, looking back on things, far to generous. They are far worse!

[newworks]

Question to Younghusband and some other PAD-critics/sceptics who have written the movement off umpteen times in the last 6 months, describing them as "marginalised" and a spent force. Now the PAD has held Government House for 3 days and basically paralysed this utterly corrup govt, while Thai Airways, SRT and other unions are coming out in favour of PAD , are you prepared to reassess your position?

Yes, it is time to reassess our position in light of recent events. I would say that our previous assessment that PAD members were primarily made up of scum with a smidgeon of naive fools thrown in was, looking back on things, far to generous. They are far worse!

i couldn't have said that any better!

[bazmlb]

Protesters demand culprits for beating the people

Protesters have started rallying at the Royal Turf Club, where anti-riot police are stationing, to demand punishment for officers responsible for ordering the crackdown on the crowds at Makawan Rangsan Bridge on Friday.

The Nation

[kurtgruen]

Here is my song for Samak and his henchmen...not original, but it will have to do

NANANANA NANANANA HEYYEYEY GOOOODBYE

Power to the People

No Justice no Peace...Samak out of Thailand please

Thank you to all my Union Brothers for helping in this struggle against a totally corrupt government

[hammered]

Power cut at Mae Moh power plant threatened

A senior staff of Mae Moh Power Plant in Lampang threatened to shut down the plant if the government continued using forces to disperse protesters.

Somchok Chanthong, communications coordinator for Mae Moh power plant and a PAD leader in the North, said if more police forces are deployed to crush the protesters at the Makawan Bridge and the Government House, he is ready to lead supporters in the North to shut down the plant.

"If the government does not stop resorting to violent methods and proceeds to dissolve the gatherings, we will immediately block the power plant and ask all officers to stop the power generating in protest. We expect those officers to lend cooperation," he said.

According to the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand which operates the power plant, Mae Moh has the capacity of 2,000MW, or slightly less than 10 per cent of Egat's capacity.

From the Nation

[h90]

Power cut at Mae Moh power plant threatened

A senior staff of Mae Moh Power Plant in Lampang threatened to shut down the plant if the government continued using forces to disperse protesters.

The Nation

take out the plug and Samak is gone.....

[kurtgruen]

Just to remind everyone new to this thread, here is 24 hour live coverage from ASTV

http://wwitv.com/portal.htm?http://wwitv.c...nnels/b2973.htm

Don't just take the word of right wing Samak lovers, tune in and see for yourself what is happening. The above link is Pro Demonstrators and the only supportive station, as far as I know. You can watch all the opposing views on TV, between the two, hopefully, you can make an intelligent judgement on your own...like so many teachers, students and other intelligent people in Thailand already have ;-) (That's just my humble opinion though ;-)

[newworks]

Here is my song for Samak and his henchmen...not original, but it will have to do

NANANANA NANANANA HEYYEYEY GOOOODBYE

Power to the People

No Justice no Peace...Samak out of Thailand please

Thank you to all my Union Brothers for helping in this struggle against a totally corrupt government

yes! and thank you, union brothers, for very probably paving the way for another period of martial law and an incompetent "interim gov't" that will screw the economy and everything else up all over again, until we can have more elections that will be contested and have demostrations against all over again.

thank you, brothers, from the bottom of my heart! power to the middle- and upper-class bangkok people!