Ten Days Until The End Of The World

[Moonrakers]

that missing mass is actually streaming away from us at almost twice the speed of light (or even faster), and that is why we can not see, or account for it ?

ah.. the hypothetical Tachyon. (swift one)

faster than light travel suggests the possibility of Time Travel

Which is deemed impossible in science (Although science accepts that nothing is either impossible or definite). And yet they are even pushing that boundry. Scientists are also searching for the value of infinity.... is it possible for infiity to have a value/equation/formula????? Either way they are looking for it.

What is so exciting about the higgs boson for me is that, should it exist, then it will have to occupy the same time space as other particles which is theoretically impossible. This gives birth to the thought that previously unseen dimensions could be discovered which could be the single greatest scientific breakthrough in world history, this shit is absolutely mind boggling.

I have read up on this and basically they are hoping to be able to combine all of the existing theory's into one, in the way that electricity and magnetism where combined into electromagnetism many moons ago. They are looking for the equation that combines E=MC2 with everything else to get an equation that answers EVERYTHING.

But this is science, and we are humans. And so I also wonder that if we do find the Higgs Boson (The answer to EVERYTHING), how long will it be before we want to split the Higgs Boson, after all it was not that long ago that the atom was considered to be the smallest possible particle.

[AmeriThai]

that missing mass is actually streaming away from us at almost twice the speed of light (or even faster), and that is why we can not see, or account for it ?

ah.. the hypothetical Tachyon. (swift one)

faster than light travel suggests the possibility of Time Travel

Which is deemed impossible in science (Although science accepts that nothing is either impossible or definite). And yet they are even pushing that boundry. Scientists are also searching for the value of infinity.... is it possible for infiity to have a value/equation/formula????? Either way they are looking for it.

What is so exciting about the higgs boson for me is that, should it exist, then it will have to occupy the same time space as other particles which is theoretically impossible. This gives birth to the thought that previously unseen dimensions could be discovered which could be the single greatest scientific breakthrough in world history, this shit is absolutely mind boggling.

I have read up on this and basically they are hoping to be able to combine all of the existing theory's into one, in the way that electricity and magnetism where combined into electromagnetism many moons ago. They are looking for the equation that combines E=MC2 with everything else to get an equation that answers EVERYTHING.

But this is science, and we are humans. And so I also wonder that if we do find the Higgs Boson (The answer to EVERYTHING), how long will it be before we want to split the Higgs Boson, after all it was not that long ago that the atom was considered to be the smallest possible particle.

Nice post globalj. Easy on the brain to read. Although the Higgs Boson is referred to as the answer to everything, I gather it's what may be the most fundamental particle that connects everything to everything else as predicted by the Standard Model of particle physics. Oddly, the Higgs Boson would not only be what provides mass to all elementary particles, but gives mass to itself. That's way beyond my ability to comprehend. Whether it's proven to exist or proven to not exist, it'll certainly provide some new ways of looking at the universe. But you're right. Finding the Higgs Boson would certainly help open the way for a host of new discoveries. The idea that there might be extra dimensions would be an incredible discovery, perhaps some tightly wound up within our own 3D+time universe. It really staggers the imagination as to what may be found.

Interesting images of a simulation depicting the decay of the Higgs particle.

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1013169

At the moment though, the LHC is set back for at least a couple of months due to this second malfunction. Hopefully, no more major problems ahead.

As for those who are concerned about the risk that the world may be gobbled up by a micro black hole, it's worth mentioning that the size of these things are incredibly small and would vanish almost instantly leaving only an interesting trail pattern behind from other particles.

Worst Case Scenario!

"...black hole would have an event horizon trillions upon trillions of times smaller than the size of a proton."

"...it would still take three billion years for the black hole to suck in even one gram of matter! So the chances of this happening? Zero. Not one in 50 million, like Martin Rees says, but zero. This is the worst case scenario, and it still takes billions of years to even eat one gram’s worth!"

"Black holes decay, and the smaller ones decay the fastest. Even if you managed to make this 25 femtogram black hole, it would decay into normal matter incredibly fast. How fast? According to Hawking radiation, this black hole will be gone in 10^-66 seconds..."

http://startswithabang.com/?p=878

http://atlas.ch/atlas_photos/fulldetector/eventslgpng.html

http://images.iop.org/objects/cern/cern/44...Ehol1_11-04.jpg

[Goshawk]

Which is deemed impossible in science (Although science accepts that nothing is either impossible or definite)

you're cancelling your own statement out...

research into FTL particles has been going on for decades and continues to this day among the worlds most eminent physicists..

[Kerryd]

I imagine that if they can prove the existence of the Higgs, then the question will be how can they create enough of them, and keep them stable long enough, to be able to see if they are themselves composed of even smaller particles (and how to split those smaller particles).

Splitting the atom gave us the Atom bomb (and hydrogen, neutron and other nuclear weapons). Could this lead to the development of the Higgs Bomb ? (I just want to blow sh*t up !)

Or, will discovering the thing that gives other things mass, merely lead to a new line of diet pills ?

[Moonrakers]

Which is deemed impossible in science (Although science accepts that nothing is either impossible or definite)

you're cancelling your own statement out...

research into FTL particles has been going on for decades and continues to this day among the worlds most eminent physicists..

I know, and that is science. In science everything is possible and there is no such thing as absolute fact, which is what I was trying to say...... I think.

[Kerryd]

I know, and that is science. In science everything is possible and there is no such thing as absolute fact, which is what I was trying to say...... I think.

Only the Sith deal in absolutes !

[Cuban]

faster than light travel suggests the possibility of Time Travel

How?

[klikster]

Would have happened too .. but they ran out of gas.

[Kerryd]

faster than light travel suggests the possibility of Time Travel

How?

Well, if you could travel faster than time, then you could arrive before you left.

But how is it possible to arrive before you left ?

Besides, if time travel were possible, we'd already know, because someone would have gone back and changed things and our history wouldn't be so full of tragedy.

Or did someone go back and change something, which resulted in our history being full of tragedy, and the result being that we never were able to create a time machine so that someone could go back (again) and undo the previous changes ?

Then again, time marches onwards and perhaps time travel would be possible into the future, but not the past.

For example, I step into my time machine, the little lights start flashing and a few seconds later I step out. It's a few seconds to me, but to everyone else, 50 years (or 500 or 5,000) have passed.

One would have to plan carefully before venturing on such a journey (what to wear 500 years into the future ?). Not to mention, the machine itself would have to be built in a place that would likely still be there in the future (and not wiped out by war or natural disaster).

Could you imagine a person (say, Da Vinci) suddenly appearing in our time ? Leonardo may be able to handle the changes and advancements that have happened since his time. Others perhaps not.

What about someone who lived 5,000 years ago ? An ancient Egyptian magician from the time of Seti or Ramses ?

Now imagine yourself travelling 5,000 years into the future ? Could you handle it ?

//spelling & punctuation edit !

Edited September 23, 2008 by Kerryd

[Goshawk]

faster than light travel suggests the possibility of Time Travel

How?

Then again, time marches onwards and perhaps time travel would be possible into the future, but not the past.

For example, I step into my time machine, the little lights start flashing and a few seconds later I step out. It's a few seconds to me, but to everyone else, 50 years (or 500 or 5,000) have passed.

this is well known, its called the 'Time Dilation' effect.. the closer you approach the speed of light, the greater the effect.. Hollywood and Pierre Boule have toyed with this....

in fact, they reckon that some of the apollo astronauts 'aged' fractions of a second quicker than the rest of us upon their return to earth..

only FTL travel 'permits' (according to some) travel backwards in time.. its a complicated process involving 'tilting cones' - don't ask...

all i know is that De Lorean motorcars are particularly suited to partial adaptation of the theory..

[Bangyai]

Talking of Tachyons and faster than light travel Wolfgang Pauli's Exclusion Principle of 1925 ( proved at the Univercity of Geneva in 1997 ) whereby, certain pairs of subatomic particles, even when seperated by considerable distances ( 7 miles at Geneva ) can each ' know ' instantly what the other is doing. Particles have a quality known as spin. The moment you determine the spin of one particle, its sister particle, no matter how far away, will instantly start spinning in the opposite direction at the same rate.

Can't get fater than that ! Last time I looked how this happens has yet to be determined.

[Goshawk]

in fact, they reckon that some of the apollo astronauts 'aged' fractions of a second quicker than the rest of us upon their return to earth..

i should've said.. slower - my time circuits must have got crossed

but hey, i've just seen a flux capacitor for sale on eBay

[AmeriThai]

Talking of Tachyons and faster than light travel Wolfgang Pauli's Exclusion Principle of 1925 ( proved at the Univercity of Geneva in 1997 ) whereby, certain pairs of subatomic particles, even when seperated by considerable distances ( 7 miles at Geneva ) can each ' know ' instantly what the other is doing. Particles have a quality known as spin. The moment you determine the spin of one particle, its sister particle, no matter how far away, will instantly start spinning in the opposite direction at the same rate.

Can't get fater than that ! Last time I looked how this happens has yet to be determined.

I know what you're talking about but I think tachyons are still considered to be hypothetical. However what has been said about particles that seem to know what the other is doing, even over long distances, is yet to be explained as you said. It could be any number of reasons. It's possible some quantum particles could involve extra dimensions, which is hoped the LHC might be able to detect. If it involves some kind of shortcut through the fabric of space-time, then it wouldn't necessarily require exceeding the FTL limit. Or it may have something to do with cosmic strings, if they are ever found to exist.

[Goshawk]

I know what you're talking about but I think tachyons are still considered to be hypothetical. However what has been said about particles that seem to know what the other is doing, even over long distances, is yet to be explained as you said. It could be any number of reasons. It's possible some quantum particles could involve extra dimensions, which is hoped the LHC might be able to detect. If it involves some kind of shortcut through the fabric of space-time, then it wouldn't necessarily require exceeding the FTL limit. Or it may have something to do with cosmic strings, if they are ever found to exist.

and also don't forget that the Higgs Bosun (one of the prime targets of the LHC) is similarly at present nothing more than a hypothetical entity.. it only exists in calculations

i believe that tachyons (its a broad term, meaning anything sub atomic that travels FTL) do exist.. although (unsurprisingly) i can't prove it.. i'd win the Nobel if i could

when you talk of tears, or rips, in the fabric of space time then the wormhole theories definately come into play especially if 'Time Travel' is also on your agenda

[AmeriThai]

I know what you're talking about but I think tachyons are still considered to be hypothetical. However what has been said about particles that seem to know what the other is doing, even over long distances, is yet to be explained as you said. It could be any number of reasons. It's possible some quantum particles could involve extra dimensions, which is hoped the LHC might be able to detect. If it involves some kind of shortcut through the fabric of space-time, then it wouldn't necessarily require exceeding the FTL limit. Or it may have something to do with cosmic strings, if they are ever found to exist.

and also don't forget that the Higgs Bosun (one of the prime targets of the LHC) is similarly at present nothing more than a hypothetical entity.. it only exists in calculations

i believe that tachyons (its a broad term, meaning anything sub atomic that travels FTL) do exist.. although (unsurprisingly) i can't prove it.. i'd win the Nobel if i could

when you talk of tears, or rips, in the fabric of space time then the wormhole theories definately come into play especially if 'Time Travel' is also on your agenda

Indeed, the Higgs Boson is hypothetical. I agree and haven't forgotten about that. Just mentioning that tachyons are also hypothetical. As for Time Travel, at best (imo), would probably follow a single line. Travel to the future seems likely the closer you get to FTL. But once you get there, there's no way to reverse it. Travel to the past seems very unlikely, though it's a great idea for science fiction. Even if wormholes exist, it would only be a shortcut providing less time to travel between point A to point B.

BTW, the LHC is now on hold until Spring. Thailand and the rest of the world can be free from worry about being gobbled up by any micro black holes - until then.

[unomi]

As for those who are concerned about the risk that the world may be gobbled up by a micro black hole, it's worth mentioning that the size of these things are incredibly small and would vanish almost instantly leaving only an interesting trail pattern behind from other particles.

Worst Case Scenario!

"...black hole would have an event horizon trillions upon trillions of times smaller than the size of a proton."

"...it would still take three billion years for the black hole to suck in even one gram of matter! So the chances of this happening? Zero. Not one in 50 million, like Martin Rees says, but zero. This is the worst case scenario, and it still takes billions of years to even eat one gram's worth!"

"Black holes decay, and the smaller ones decay the fastest. Even if you managed to make this 25 femtogram black hole, it would decay into normal matter incredibly fast. How fast? According to Hawking radiation, this black hole will be gone in 10^-66 seconds..."

http://startswithabang.com/?p=878

I'm sorry but the above is predicated on Hawking radiation of a black hole in vaccum this is obviously not the case with the LHC where the black hole will be constantly bombarded with particles?!

Yes a small mass black hole has limited ability to suck in matter, but it would probably be perfectly able to absorb matter that happens to hit it. 

People who equate a black hole in vacuum with one being in the business ring of the LHC are at best commiting intellectual fraud. 

Also, hawking radiation is only applicable to spinning black holes, one might envision it as kids being flung off a quickly rotating merry go round. The idea (as far as I can tell) is that the speed of the particle at the perimeter of the black whole is enough to cause a lack of cohesion, interesting, but.. 

[AmeriThai]

As for those who are concerned about the risk that the world may be gobbled up by a micro black hole, it's worth mentioning that the size of these things are incredibly small and would vanish almost instantly leaving only an interesting trail pattern behind from other particles.

Worst Case Scenario!

"...black hole would have an event horizon trillions upon trillions of times smaller than the size of a proton."

"...it would still take three billion years for the black hole to suck in even one gram of matter! So the chances of this happening? Zero. Not one in 50 million, like Martin Rees says, but zero. This is the worst case scenario, and it still takes billions of years to even eat one gram's worth!"

"Black holes decay, and the smaller ones decay the fastest. Even if you managed to make this 25 femtogram black hole, it would decay into normal matter incredibly fast. How fast? According to Hawking radiation, this black hole will be gone in 10^-66 seconds..."

http://startswithabang.com/?p=878

I'm sorry but the above is predicated on Hawking radiation of a black hole in vaccum this is obviously not the case with the LHC where the black hole will be constantly bombarded with particles?!

Yes a small mass black hole has limited ability to suck in matter, but it would probably be perfectly able to absorb matter that happens to hit it. 

People who equate a black hole in vacuum with one being in the business ring of the LHC are at best commiting intellectual fraud. 

Also, hawking radiation is only applicable to spinning black holes, one might envision it as kids being flung off a quickly rotating merry go round. The idea (as far as I can tell) is that the speed of the particle at the perimeter of the black whole is enough to cause a lack of cohesion, interesting, but.. 

But? But what? You left the post hanging. LOL! That a micro black hole may escape, drop to the center of the Earth, grow to ultimately consume the entire planet? The same fears cropped up over the RHIC. It produced a flash that’s thought might have been a micro black hole, although it’s still uncertain. Admittedly, LHC is much larger and more powerful than RHIC, but it’s pretty doubtful anything other than some interesting science will occur.

As for constant bombardment, I guess it depends on what you mean. They’ll be colliding around 6 million protons at a time though. Seems to me it’s pretty standard to send particles in ’clusters’. I don’t think all those protons are going to be direct collisions at the same time. More like one after another. Some may be glancing strikes. Some might not hit at all. It might take that many to get a relatively few direct hits. There’s not much to worry about because they’ll vanish almost instantly. They’re just too small and won’t have time to linger around to devour anything. Okay, maybe a quark or two. But that’s not going to be enough to stop it from vanishing. What will linger though are the tracks of quantum particles.

From what I understand, it won’t be an absolute vacuum, but it WILL BE a vacuum similar to that of interplanetary space.

“Also as you might expect the particles moving around inside this thing would naturally run into air molecules and create collisions as well. So one of the things that they’re going to do is create a vacuum that’s equal to interplanetary space, or actually about 10 percent the density of the Moon’s atmosphere. It’s going to be an extremely good vacuum inside here so that the protons don’t interact with all sorts of other things before they run into each other heading in opposite directions.”

“One of the things that people have talked about is the production of the mini black holes by the particle collisions, and that’s not totally out of the realm of possibility. The thing about black holes it that they tend to evaporate over time, and the smallest black holes evaporate the most quickly. Any black hole created by these particle interactions would disappear within a small fraction of a second, something along the order of a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a second. So any of these black holes would evaporate before they would have a chance to start devouring anything around them.”

http://cs.astronomy.com/asycs/blogs/astron...n-collider.aspx

Then too, there’s the old worn out, but still valid example about cosmic rays that frequently collide with protons in the Earth’s atmosphere. The energy is vastly more powerful than anything LHC can produce and easily capable of producing micro black holes. But no problems and we’re still here.

Frankly, even if the LHC doesn’t find the Higgs Boson, the data will still likely produce some incredible information for a long time to come, and give us a better understanding of how the universe works.

This is a bit old, but still an interesting read: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=quantum-black-holes